Walking on eggshells again

[Kayclan]

Here's another thought.

I have known that our family has been walking on eggshells for most of family members lifetime.
So despite the skills I'm learning from my psychologist, this eggshell walking doesn't stop. No matter how much I understand what goes on in a bpd mind it seems this doesn't stop. 
So it's up to me not to upset the bpd person, so that I can live in peace?

Their bpd hasn't been diagnosed, so I say it's bpd or bpd traits. It's hardly going to be diagnosed later in life and it's been suggested that at a later  age it's not treatable any more. So is it a case of I just have to learn to live with it , choosing my words wisely, 
What are your thoughts on this?

[Notwendy]

I think it's a subtle difference between walking on eggshells and not engaging in drama. The actual difference I think is motivation. Walking on eggshells is fear based- afraid of upsetting them because you are afraid of their reaction. Choosing to avoid conflict- "medium chill" is an emotional distance- because you don't want to be closer to that person- so conversations stay on the level of how you would relate to an acquaintance, a neighbor, or a coworker, not a close relationship.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I agree with Notwendy here.

Nothing wrong with walking on eggshells if it is a mindful decision born from your desire to remain in contact, while decreasing the drama. Like Notwendy said, keeping an emotional guard up and refusing to engage in difficult subjects, is another form of "eggshells walking", but that is much more deliberate and not fear-based. It's more... Safety-based? Subtil nuance, but doesn't feel the same, as you remain in control. You are acting instead of reacting...

The goal with a loved one with BPD, I think, is not to "be seen", but rather to learn to see ourselves, to validate ourselves, to parent ourselves, so that we don't feel a need to "fight to be seen" anymore... We can be mindfully present, feeling safe. We can recognize the drama and steer clear of it. It's not walking on egg shells anymore, it's mindful safety seeking. We are more genuine and independant in who we become? And maybe less resentment build too... I don't know, still working on it   

[Methuen]

Hi Kayclan,

So it's up to me not to upset the bpd person, so that I can live in peace?... So is it a case of I just have to learn to live with it , choosing my words wisely?

Not exactly.  I would reframe this thinking.  

For example, it's impossible "not to upset the bpd person".  I think any of us as well as any expert would agree this isn't possible.  Therefore it's not a reasonable or attainable goal.  So no, I wouldn't say it is up to you to not upset the pwbpd.  The problem I see with framing it that way is that you are accepting responsibility for their bad behavior and abuse (by agreeing you must not upset them). This is the classic abuse cycle.  It's always something the victim says or did that "makes them do it".  No no.  Their behavior is their responsibility - they are an adult.

I would also say that "learning to live with it" isn't reasonable either, because it could mean giving up either our well-being or even our sanity, and perhaps even giving up an independent life if they demand us to be their caretakers.

They are going to act how they are going to act.  We cannot change that.  

If you tried to live your life in a way that didn't upset them, it would probably be their life you were living, and not yours.  And even then they would still get upset and rage, because of something within them.  There is an infinite supply of things including triggers that will make them upset, and we can never change that.  Only they can change that, with a lot of therapy and hard work.

So I would reframe it this way:

"It's up to me to change how I react to this person.  This is the only thing I can control.  And it's up to me to learn how to take care of myself."

How do we do that?  NW mentioned "medium chill" or low contact.  Riv3rw0lf added mindfulness.  I'm going to add "boundaries", keeping in mind that the boundaries we set are for US.  They are not "rules" for the other person.  Those are not boundaries.  Our boundaries communicate what we can and cannot do, and we create them to keep ourselves safe (emotionally and physically) and as "well" as possible.  Then we let the pwBPD sort out their own feelings.  It is not our job to feel their feelings for them, or, absorb those feelings so they can feel better, or "resolve" their bad feelings and fix them so they feel better again.  No.  And once we've decided on our boundaries, we then we stick to them.  We cannot break our own boundaries, or we are setting ourselves up for failure, and giving the pwbpd even more power over us than they already have. 

Just my thoughts.

[Riv3rW0lf]

How do we do that?  NW mentioned "medium chill" or low contact.  Riv3rw0lf added mindfulness.  I'm going to add "boundaries", keeping in mind that the boundaries we set are for US.  They are not "rules" for the other person.  Those are not boundaries.  Our boundaries communicate what we can and cannot do, and we create them to keep ourselves safe (emotionally and physically) and as "well" as possible.  Then we let the pwBPD sort out their own feelings.  It is not our job to feel their feelings for them, or, absorb those feelings so they can feel better, or "resolve" their bad feelings and fix them so they feel better again.  No.  And once we've decided on our boundaries, we then we stick to them.  We cannot break our own boundaries, or we are setting ourselves up for failure, and giving the pwbpd even more power over us than they already have. 

Just my thoughts.

Methuen, would you give an example of what a boundary is?

Like you mentioned, boundaries are for ourselves, as opposed the limits we sometimes have to put in place too to protect ourselves.

For example, N/BPD mother will not take care of the children on her own. That would be a limit, right?

 I will not think about N/BPD mother more than 30 minutes a day. would be a boundary to preserve ourselves and keep us from ruminating... Would this be accurate?

[I Am Redeemed]

Boundaries are based on our personal values. Let's say that I value being spoken to respectfully. I can't make another person do that, but I can choose to leave a conversation or not respond to an email or text if it includes verbally abusive or aggressive language. That's me upholding my boundary.

The book Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend is an excellent book on describing what boundaries are, when we should have them, how to set them, and what types of people push them or ignore them.

[Riv3rW0lf]

The book Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend is an excellent book on describing what boundaries are, when we should have them, how to set them, and what types of people push them or ignore them.

Thank you, I will take a look at that book.

[pursuingJoy]

IAR nailed it. I thought it might help to give some examples.

Not a boundary: You can't call me on the weekends.
Boundary: If you call me on the weekend, I will not return your call until Monday.

Not a boundary: You can't talk to me like that.
Boundary: If you talk to me like that, I will hang up the phone.

Not a boundary: You need to respect my time.
Boundary: I will end the meeting at the scheduled time.

You're clarifying the action you will take to uphold your values.

[Tortuga50550]

Kayclan, I can tell you from experience, walking on eggshells may seem effective, but it's not going to help in the long run.
Sure, you may be able to avoid some situations, but at what cost? Walking on eggshells, in most cases, means forgetting your own boundaries, wich can be hurtful for you. And it won't stop the problem. Sooner or later, the BPD person will find something or someone to get mad about, no matter how much you try.
It's very possible that they will never go to therapy. That doesn't mean that you should be careful about each movement you make every single day. I'm in a similar situation, so I'm not sure what solution is the best.
Good luck either way.

[LifewithEase]

Fantastic thread.

"If you tried to live your life in a way that didn't upset them, it would probably be their life you were living, and not yours.  And even then they would still get upset and rage, because of something within them.  There is an infinite supply of things including triggers that will make them upset, and we can never change that."

"It's up to me to change how I react to this person.  This is the only thing I can control.  And it's up to me to learn how to take care of myself."

The ironic, unfair, and circular chaos BPDs create makes me so frustrated and resentful. Deeply.

You can't call them out for the maddening words and actions; you can't yell back or fight fire with fire; you can't bring up the BPD label; you can't ... you can't.

But you can work on yourself.

In the last six months I've been working hard on boundaries. It is hard. But if you do it in small ways it starts to add up. And then you feel your armour. It becomes a force field.

Just tonight, my uBPDw was splitting at home and giving me the silent treatment at a school event. Instead of just hover around her and fretting as I might have done in the past, I gracefully did what I do - I went over to friends and new parents to talk about our amazing kids.

She stayed grumpy and hostile in the corner. That ain't the life for me.

[Couscous]

It’s sounds to me like the real problem is that they are violating your physical boundaries by continuing to live in your house, so asking them to move out in X number of weeks would be an entirely appropriate boundary. If you need to, you could give them “cash for keys” so to speak to get them to move out without your needing to evict them. You might need to do some research to find out what your legal rights are here.

If your psychologist has not pointed this out to you then it’s highly likely they are a codependent rescuer themselves, which means they are not going to be much help to you. I think you’d get much better advice from an attorney.