making sense of things

[cranmango]

First time telling my story, so here goes nothing: My ex and I bonded about 5 years ago as we were each going through the end stages of failing marriages. We work together in the same department, so we saw each other every day around the office. We were instantly drawn to each other, like two magnets.

Two divorces later, and we were officially involved with one another. I should have seen the red flags from the beginning. She wanted to fast forward with me to cover up the pain of her own divorce. She pushed to immediately move in, get married, have more kids, etc. I wanted to take things slow and take the time to heal, before moving forward with our own relationship.

This led to our first quasi-breakup. I thought we were dating exclusively, but she doubted my commitment. So she started chatting with guys on a dating app. She admitted it and said that I need to make a commitment or else she was out. That's when we made our relationship public (about six months after the divorces were official).

At first things, were great. Very intense relationship, we spent nearly every waking moment together. I started neglecting my friendships and hobbies, I only wanted to be with her and make her happy. But after about six months, the cracks started to show. It felt like we were constantly fighting. The more we fought, the harder I tried to fix things while also seeking reassurance. Which just caused more fighting. Then the COVID lockdown hit, and within a few weeks she officially broke up with me. Her reason at the time was that I should have moved in with her at the start of the lockdown, because that's what everyone else was doing. And the fact that I didn't move in with her meant she couldn't trust me.

For two months or so, I begged her to take me back. I wrote her love letters and emails. I promised I'd change. She didn't want anything to do with me. She let me down gently enough, but also made it clear that she needed to be alone. Then she informed me what she was seeing other men. At that point, I finally set some boundaries. I told her that I would fulfill all our work obligations (we work closely on a lot of projects), but would keep my distance otherwise. She still reached out via text to make sure I was there (wishing me a happy Father's Day, etc), but things went quiet for a few weeks.

Until her rebound relationship cratered. Then she latched onto me again and pulled me back into her life. I was so excited just to have her back, I ignored all the details of her rebound relationship (which was with a coworker of ours) and took her back with open arms. Things were great again for a few weeks. Then she realized she wasn't ready to be in a relationship again and blamed me for moving too quickly. She pushed me away, only to pull me back. We reset. We had a second 'first date,' and tried rebuilding things from scratch.

Again, things were good for a while. Then about three months later she broke up with me right before my birthday. Then threw me a birthday party out of guilt. Then made the breakup official. Then panicked that I was dating one of our coworkers (I wasn't), and drew me back into her life.

And once again, things were good for a while. Until they weren't. More ups and downs for another year or so. More life stress, more fighting, interspersed with some calm stretches. But more and more, I felt like I was walking on eggshells. Doing everything I could just to not make her mad on a daily basis.

The final break started this past spring. I was on vacation with her and her family, and I brought up the topic of moving in together. My lease was ending, so I needed to either renew or move in with her. We had talked about it before, but hadn't come to any decisions. She got really angry and told me that I couldn't move in because she didn't want to live with my daughter. This was the first time I really stood up for myself. We were already in couples therapy at this point, so at our next session I voiced how hurt I was by this conversation. She denied all of it and said that I was projecting all of my own baggage onto her. She raged at me. We never really recovered after that. We went on a few more dates, had some (brief) calm times. But also a lot more fights and talks about things being irreconcilable.

A few weeks later she came to a work event with me. Then on the walk back to our cars at the end of the night, she told me she just wanted to be friends. I was not entirely shocked, but also felt really defeated. I accepted her decision in the moment, gave her a hug, and went home. This threw her off. She expected us to talk more, for me to protest, for me to go back to her house and spend the night. I didn't.

A week later she came to a karaoke party with some work friends. We were all drinking and singing. She got mad that I wasn't paying enough attention to her. So she started messaging guys on dating apps right in front of me (but I was too drunk to notice). She hit it off with one guy in particular. And now that guy is her boyfriend. She even admitted to our friends that she can't stand being alone, so being with him was better than nothing. Our mutual friends think this is all ridiculous, and assumed she was just throwing a tantrum.

Four months later, and she is still together with this guy. I still see her at work every week. I keep my distance. We've been at some group events together, some friend events. We email about work projects almost every day. But we've had basically zero one-on-one conversations. I've been trying to keep my distance, respect her new relationship, and keep things civil.

At a few points, I thought we were reconnecting. She will occasionally text me late at night. Sometimes at work she will flirt with me. Show me lots of attention, then pull back for a week at a time. I suspect that these coincide with moments when she is feuding with her boyfriend, but it's hard to tell. I stay away from her social media, but from what my friends say she posts a lot of messages about how perfect her new boyfriend is and about how happy they are together. My friends are convinced it's all a performance to try and make me jealous. Just last week, she came by my office to chat and was being extremely friendly. Once again, I thought were were starting over.

Now we are both scheduled to go on a work trip together. It is out of town for four nights at a hotel. I could have opted out, but she encouraged me to sign up for the trip. I thought maybe she wanted to spend time with me alone, so of course I signed up. Then today she texts me to inform me that her boyfriend is going to tag along, too, and stay in her hotel room. I have not met this guy. I know they've been dating for four months, but I don't know anything else about him. I have no idea what she's told him about me. I asked if she felt comfortable with me also being on this work trip at the same time, and she insisted that she wants me to be there, too.

Part of me thinks this is all nuts. That surely it's a bluff. That she is triangulating me and him to see who is more loyal to her. That she is baiting me to get jealous and pick a fight with her (she always complained that I didn't fight with her enough, that I was too calm).

Part of me feels sorry for her. She so desperately wants my approval. She doesn't really have any friends. Even as she was breaking up with me, she said she was scared because I was her only true friend. Every time I pull back even a little bit, she pulls me back in.

I can't (easily) change jobs. We are committed to several major projects together that will go on for at least the next three years. She send me mixed signals on a weekly basis. I love her. I miss her. I also really want her to clean up her own mess, get her life together, and figure out what she needs to finally be happy. If not me, then fine. But I don't think this new guy makes her particularly happy either. I think I might be the only person that really knows her. She helped me get through some incredibly hard times in my life. I will always be rooting for her. But her behavior lately is so erratic that I just don't know what to do.

Reading these forums has been really helpful for reflecting on my own attachment style and insecurity that led me into this relationship in the first place. And that keeps leading me back to her when she shows the slightest sign of interest in me. I'm not out of the woods yet, but I think I can at least see the pathway out, if that makes sense. But I'm also incredibly tired of all this, and just want to move on with my life.

Open to any suggestions. Or at least just a reminder that I am not alone. :/

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[heartfeltengine]

Hi cranmango,

I am really sorry that you are going through this.
You realize that you are addicted to this person with a personality disorder. You can replace her name with the word "cocaine" and the story will still make total sense.
I too find myself in this exact same dilemma. How can I still want her to return if my rational mind knows so much and has so much proof that she is utterly toxic to me? Ask yourself, do you really like this woman? Try to come up with a list of qualities that you appreciate in her. Try to be sincere and filter out those moments of love bombing where she made you feel amazing. Those were all fake. Despite that, you had a chance to get to know the real person behind that mask. Do you like her? You should be able to pinpoint to something concrete, not just "she just makes me feel incredible" or "it is just something magical about her". Other than that, you should never accept being treated like that. It is not fun being a second, third, or n-th choice of somebody. You just have to be utterly sincere to yourself.

Wish you the best!

[cranmango]

You realize that you are addicted to this person with a personality disorder. You can replace her name with the word "cocaine" and the story will still make total sense.

Thanks for the reply, heartfeltengine. Mentally, I know that you are exactly right. It is an emotional addiction to another person. The irony is that right before the final breakup, I was having serious doubts about the relationship and was considering whether we were simply incompatible. But here I am, months later, still struggling with the craving to get her back and tortured with jealousy over her new partner.

I can see how unhealthy all this is for me. I know that I need to create distance from her, focus on taking care of myself, and find meaning in my life again. Some moments I feel completely peaceful and on the right track. And some moments I despair. Last night was hard--I was up all night tortured by thoughts and memories of her.

What scares me is that I am fairly sure that she is working hard to keep me in her orbit, in case her current relationship craters (which it likely will at some point, given the circumstances and her prior history). If that does happen, she will likely come at me hard to try and get me back, to fill the void within her. Part of me is terrified of that happening. And of course another part of my is hoping that it does.

I am going to think more today about the list of things I genuinely like about her (not counting lovebombing) and see what I can come up with...

[ClarityNow]

Reading your post, I have to say that I’m jealous…jealous that she keeps breaking things off with you and at the end of the day you go back to your own house, in relative peace and quiet, away from this person. I, on the other hand, have been essentially trapped for many years in a marriage to a BPD and there is nowhere for me to go for more than a moment of peace. I’m jealous that before you get trapped too, you have the opportunity to wake up to what I believe is really going on here: that she’s stringing you along because it makes her feel wanted, gives her attention, and perpetuates her desire for drama. Something about the drama she creates is appealing to you subconsciously—maybe you like the romantic-seeming ups and downs, or feeling so many emotions makes you feel more alive, or this behavior seems normal to you, or you think you don’t deserve any better…but trust me, the constant drama eventually wears you down if you’re lucky, completely destroys you if you aren’t. You’re in love with someone who has a serious disorder and seems incapable of having a healthy relationship. Consider yourself lucky that she keeps breaking things off.

Sorry if this post comes across as harsh, but today is my wedding anniversary and let’s just say it’s not a good day.

[Rev]

Hi Cranmango,

Welcome and thanks for taking the time to share your story.

I will take some time to sit with all the moving parts because obviously, going no-contact is not in the cards. So, this will really be like a chess-match and managing the relationship until she emotionally moves on.  Too soon to tell what it's going to take for that to happen.  I'll reach out again.

And, no, you are far, far from alone. In fact, I'd venture to say that there are more men out there with these kinds of stories than we know, because generally men don't talk about these things easily.

In the meantime, how are your emotional reserves? In other words, how much energy do you have to resists cravings for "the relationship", in you know what I mean?  A big part of resisting is keeping well rested and devoting time to other things that build your sense of personal identity. Personally, I kept the image of being an athlete in my head. I too worked in the same organization with my ex - but thankfully our paths did not really need to cross. It would be impossible for me to think about working with her in any capacity. Thankfully also, she has been fired and now is gone.

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

[Rev]

Reading your post, I have to say that I’m jealous…jealous that she keeps breaking things off with you and at the end of the day you go back to your own house, in relative peace and quiet, away from this person. I, on the other hand, have been essentially trapped for many years in a marriage to a BPD and there is nowhere for me to go for more than a moment of peace. I’m jealous that before you get trapped too, you have the opportunity to wake up to what I believe is really going on here: that she’s stringing you along because it makes her feel wanted, gives her attention, and perpetuates her desire for drama. Something about the drama she creates is appealing to you subconsciously—maybe you like the romantic-seeming ups and downs, or feeling so many emotions makes you feel more alive, or this behavior seems normal to you, or you think you don’t deserve any better…but trust me, the constant drama eventually wears you down if you’re lucky, completely destroys you if you aren’t. You’re in love with someone who has a serious disorder and seems incapable of having a healthy relationship. Consider yourself lucky that she keeps breaking things off.

Sorry if this post comes across as harsh, but today is my wedding anniversary and let’s just say it’s not a good day.

Truth right here...

[cranmango]

Sorry if this post comes across as harsh, but today is my wedding anniversary and let’s just say it’s not a good day.

Not harsh at all. I appreciate the reality check. I can only imagine how painful today must be for you. Sending positive vibes your way.

[ClarityNow]

Not harsh at all. I appreciate the reality check. I can only imagine how painful today must be for you. Sending positive vibes your way.

Thank you so much. Good luck to both of us!

[cranmango]

In the meantime, how are your emotional reserves? In other words, how much energy do you have to resists cravings for "the relationship", in you know what I mean?  A big part of resisting is keeping well rested and devoting time to other things that build your sense of personal identity. Personally, I kept the image of being an athlete in my head. I too worked in the same organization with my ex - but thankfully our paths did not really need to cross. It would be impossible for me to think about working with her in any capacity. Thankfully also, she has been fired and now is gone.

Thanks for the thoughts, Rev. I don't think my resistance is very high at the moment. I am naturally a people pleaser, and that is amplified with my ex. Whenever she reaches out, I immediately fall back into that rhythm of being a good listener, validating her, soothing her, etc. I see that pattern more clearly now than I have in the past. So my immediate goal is to maintain a friendly distance. I will be polite, but it's not my job to be her emotional support--she has a boyfriend for that.

[Pook075]

Reading your post, I have to say that I’m jealous…jealous that she keeps breaking things off with you and at the end of the day you go back to your own house, in relative peace and quiet, away from this person. I, on the other hand, have been essentially trapped for many years in a marriage to a BPD and there is nowhere for me to go for more than a moment of peace. I’m jealous that before you get trapped too, you have the opportunity to wake up to what I believe is really going on here: that she’s stringing you along because it makes her feel wanted, gives her attention, and perpetuates her desire for drama.

I'm sort of on the opposite end of the spectrum on this.  My wife's been gone for almost three months after 24 years of marriage.  She stopped arguing with me 20+ years ago and would instead shut down.  Then again, she also focused her anger in other directions through the years (towards kids, co-workers, etc).

What I've realized over the past three months is that even though my wife would get distant and sad at times, I could have reacted differently.  Instead of being hurt and becoming distant myself, I could have loved her in a different way, shown compassion, and not made the situation personal.  I didn't know my wife's diagnosis back then, so it's easy to say it's not my fault- but it's absolutely my fault as much as hers.  It takes two in order to be married; it's always a two-person problem.

What I am jealous of from the original post is that Cranmango's person kept coming back, giving new opportunities to start over.  Of course, every situation is different and my wife is not seeking other romantic interests.  But she's not speaking to me either.  The best advice I can give is to focus on yourself, find your passions in life again, and choose to make yourself happy each and every day.  It is a choice, a conscious choice to focus on yourself and invest in being a better person.

If it's meant to be, then things will work out...but we can't force it through hope or persuasion.  This is a process for all of us and do get to choose who we want to be in all this.

[Cat Familiar]

While we don’t suggest getting into new relationships without processing and grieving the end of the relationship we’re in, I’m wondering if it might be helpful to try a dating app and see what other possibilities might be out there.

You can’t go *cold turkey* with this relationship since you work with her, you are unable to fully let go of her, since she is keeping you on a string, should her current relationship not work out.

You’ve focused so much time and obsessive thinking toward her that you’ve blotted out the idea that there might be other women out there who are a better (and healthier) match for you. So what keeps you from looking?

[cranmango]

While we don’t suggest getting into new relationships without processing and grieving the end of the relationship we’re in, I’m wondering if it might be helpful to try a dating app and see what other possibilities might be out there.

You can’t go *cold turkey* with this relationship since you work with her, you are unable to fully let go of her, since she is keeping you on a string, should her current relationship not work out.

You’ve focused so much time and obsessive thinking toward her that you’ve blotted out the idea that there might be other women out there who are a better (and healthier) match for you. So what keeps you from looking?

You hit the nail on the head. I just re-installed a dating app this morning, after procrastinating for weeks. I think what holds me back is a combination of insecurity (no one out there will want me) and hope that my ex will come back (again). I am working to take her down off the pedestal, and notice that there is a whole world of other women out there.

[cranmango]

I'm sort of on the opposite end of the spectrum on this.  My wife's been gone for almost three months after 24 years of marriage.  She stopped arguing with me 20+ years ago and would instead shut down.  Then again, she also focused her anger in other directions through the years (towards kids, co-workers, etc).

What I've realized over the past three months is that even though my wife would get distant and sad at times, I could have reacted differently.  Instead of being hurt and becoming distant myself, I could have loved her in a different way, shown compassion, and not made the situation personal.  I didn't know my wife's diagnosis back then, so it's easy to say it's not my fault- but it's absolutely my fault as much as hers.  It takes two in order to be married; it's always a two-person problem.

What I am jealous of from the original post is that Cranmango's person kept coming back, giving new opportunities to start over.  Of course, every situation is different and my wife is not seeking other romantic interests.  But she's not speaking to me either.  The best advice I can give is to focus on yourself, find your passions in life again, and choose to make yourself happy each and every day.  It is a choice, a conscious choice to focus on yourself and invest in being a better person.

If it's meant to be, then things will work out...but we can't force it through hope or persuasion.  This is a process for all of us and do get to choose who we want to be in all this.

I'm so sorry for your situation, Pook. You are right that it takes two in order to be married. And I think it's helpful to reflect on things that we could have done differently. I've certainly spent a lot of sleepless nights replaying every fight we had and thinking how I could have reacted better in the moment. But we're always doing the best we can with what we know at the time, right?

[Rev]

Thanks for the thoughts, Rev. I don't think my resistance is very high at the moment. I am naturally a people pleaser, and that is amplified with my ex. Whenever she reaches out, I immediately fall back into that rhythm of being a good listener, validating her, soothing her, etc. I see that pattern more clearly now than I have in the past. So my immediate goal is to maintain a friendly distance. I will be polite, but it's not my job to be her emotional support--she has a boyfriend for that.

This sounds like an excellent plan. If you feel that you need help with this - CBT and ACT are good therapeutic approaches. Seek a therapist who is trained in those and who understands mood disorders. Those approaches depend alot on good self-awareness.  And you name that here.   

The rest is to build up new patterns, let the old one's fade.  And do what you can to keep up your energy. For example in the first six months or so, I really cut down on my alcohol consumption and improved my diet.  Made a big difference to my morale.

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

[Rev]

While we don’t suggest getting into new relationships without processing and grieving the end of the relationship we’re in, I’m wondering if it might be helpful to try a dating app and see what other possibilities might be out there.

You can’t go *cold turkey* with this relationship since you work with her, you are unable to fully let go of her, since she is keeping you on a string, should her current relationship not work out.

You’ve focused so much time and obsessive thinking toward her that you’ve blotted out the idea that there might be other women out there who are a better (and healthier) match for you. So what keeps you from looking?

I actually did this and went on several dates. No pressure. Met some interesting women. Learned alot about what I wanted without needing to judge others.