Her Finances Are None of My Business

[Turkish]

As the kids say, "amiright?"

I took her and our two kids to the airport this morning to fly to Hawaii for a week's vacation. Just the airfare was $1100. She makes no more than $60k/year in the silicon Valley and is in subsidized housing. Three years ago, she asked to borrow $25k to pay off credit card debt. She's been in 4 accidents in the past 4 years and her insurance has skyrocketed.

D10 said today that she wants to go to Japan next. Her mom agreed. I said that she'd likely appreciate it when older. D10 said "OK, maybe 16."

Mommy has told them that she wants to take her and S (about to turn 13) to: Mexico, Japan, Europe while they're teens. She's already taken them from Nor-Cal where we are to two trips to So-Cal Disneyland and Legoland earlier this year. She's matching the vacationb time that my buddy and his wife have taken their kid on, but they have a combined gross income over $250k/year.

Both kids are being treated for orthodontics and that's almost $10k over the year.

My aforementioned buddy who divorced his first wife (uBPD who was driving them into bankruptcy... the 2nd is a peach) told me that I should say something. I don't think so.

I'm making a lot more money than I was when we finalized the stip in 2013, but the upside is that she still qualifies for subsidized housing. So if she filed for more $$, it might result in her being kicked out. Today I sent her property manager a signed form stating what cash I pay to her, an annual review.

All in all, we get along with minimal necessary contact. Though it's also frustrating that I handle the school stuff "you're better at that" and the like, I should count my blessings and shut my mouth. I'm just frustrated that she's implicitly teaching the kids a champagne lifestyle on a Schlitz beer budget.

She also messed up my Thanksgiving as I'll pick them up that night so I can't go anywhere. Just me and the dog. That's my fault for being agreeable.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Reading this gave me shivers... Reminded me of my brother's spending... How he can just throw 80,000$ to the wind in a matter of a few months. I never quite understood why, money just burns his pockets. He cannot plan ahead. He says he wants to enjoy life but I think it is self-sabotage.

Then he can blame those of us who "have money". "Seriously, you could buy a plot of land? Why don't you help me buy my house??" Well, yes I invested. I also only have one car and none of the crazy toys you keep buying. And yes, he actually once really asked me to buy his house for him. Seriously. What is wrong with him.

Then I thought some more... he buys a lot of things, but it is also the top quality. And when he meet a woman... Ho damn, she is in for a sweet first month. Grand hotels. Fancy restaurants.

So, coming back to your BPDxw... Do you think she equates what she can buy to what she is worth? She knows she cannot provide her kids with emotional support like you do, so she buys them things and memories and grand hotels stays...

But yeah I mean...

I agree you cannot say anything. You are her ex, not her father. And I don't think it would be wise to get engaged, it will only stress you out, bring the drama to your life.

My brother is not married, so he currently falls back on mom and dad when he doesnt have money anymore. BPD mother always provide (stepdad is careful with money and taught her how to take care of her finances over time, she was also raised in a very poor housing setup, and she kept the scratching habits..) I always worry one day it will be on my door he rings to be saved.

No way can she afford that. You know that. Are you ready for the impending doom? I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but we got to be realist too... What will you do when she runs out of money? When she can't afford housing anymore?

Have you already given it some thoughts or will you cross that bridge when you get there?

[Notwendy]

Turkish- from my own experience, she's not going to stop this. The only stop to this is you saying no.

I don't know of any divorce agreement that includes trips abroad like Japan and these trips are not essential needs for children.

Disneyland is understandable. It's an easy trip in California- something probably a lot of families do. Yes, it's special but not that over the top from California. Hawaii? that's different. Hawaii is a luxury.

While travel to Europe and Japan are educational trips- kids get a lot more out of them when they have studied the culture. if you can fund them, how about you save the money and gift them to the kids as study abroad trips in college or as young adults rather than trips for the ex and the kids? These could be study abroad opportunities or college graduation gifts where they could go with a group of peers, get credit for them. They will get a lot more out of the trip in that experience.

[GaGrl]

It's not in your control. She will handle her finances as she wants. She might have to file bankruptcy at some point, if all these extras are being funded on credit cards.

That's on her.

[Notwendy]

Oh I read it at first as she's asking you to pay for these things- but I agree- there's nothing you can do about what she does with her money. You aren't obligated to bail her out.

I am dealing with a similar situation with my BPD mother. We have been concerned about how she is spending money- but it's her money. She maintains control over it, doesn't share any information with her kids and we have no say in it.

We don't want it but we do wish she will have enough for her own needs but we don't have any way to know that.

Your ex will do whatever she wants to do.

[Turkish]

I've heard it said that when unsecured debt is half of your gross income that you're close to bankruptcy. It's the magical thinking that she's going to do all of this in the next few years. I think it may be more for her than the kids. I have it in my mind to take kids kids to europe... once D turns 18. I said no to Mexico until they're older teens.

At least this time I hit her up to pay for D's braces. She stuck me with our son's.

I've also been nicer and have taken a month of days off since the beginning of school when the kids are sick. My new role is more flexible (WFH) while her new manager position demands more of her. She works for a non profit. I doubt that she got a huge raise.

I told her when we split: save up your PTO/vacation days to align with school breaks and holidays, and plan for likely orthodontics. She did neither.

Edit: she posted vids on Facebook. It does look like they're having a good time.

On the way to the airport she asked the kids how she was in the morning. No yelling? S12 said that she was stressed and D10 said that she raised her voice but didn't yell. Worrying about these things is why I didn't go even though I was invited. Trapped on an island, no thanks.

[ForeverDad]

Turkish- from my own experience, she's not going to stop this. The only stop to this is you saying no.

...how about you save the money and gift them to the kids as study abroad trips in college or as young adults rather than trips for the ex and the kids? These could be study abroad opportunities or college graduation gifts where they could go with a group of peers, get credit for them. They will get a lot more out of the trip in that experience.

I think a good place to say No is with international destinations.  Any international destinations.  Overall a good policy but also with today's heightened social and governmental concerns.

And another No is her pressuring for joint vacations.  Another recipe for disaster.  Remember boundaries.

[Turkish]

They called last night. They're having a good time.  Apropos of nothing, D10 said, "mommy still loves you, just not romantically." Not the first I've heard this, but it drives me nuts that she talks to the kids about that. I know that it's D10 that still asks her questions since she was 1 when her mom left.

[Notwendy]

I agree- it's not something to discuss with kids. However, as a young teen, I also began to ask questions like that. I think it's something kids grapple with at an age where they don't understand relationships in depth. If people get married because they love each other, and they aren't married now, why don't they love each other now? Although my parents didn't divorce, we did wonder if that would happen.

But also, BPD mother did share TMI with me when I was a teen. I think if this happens with your D, the content of her questions will reflect that. I think right now she's processing things like a 10 year old might. It makes sense she'd ask her mother "why don't you love Dad anymore?". The reply she got sounds about as diplomatic as possible.

[Turkish]

I just picked them up. Polite, but no "thank you." The kids were arguing and hitting each other before we pulled out of the terminal. She told me that I was right and it would have been better to take them older as they'd been fighting like this. She asked if I wanted them until Thursday on her days. Because "they miss the dog." I think she wants a break   

She implied that's why she invited me in the first place, to help with them. Sorry, no. And thanks for implying that I'm just an Au (Bro) Pair.

[Notwendy]

Sometimes natural consequences are the best lesson. She learned her limits with the kids- hopefully she will remember them.

And yes, you aren't the nanny. But no reason you can't take them on vacations without her sometimes, if you want to. Mostly though, kids just want time with you doing fun things. It doesn't have to be Hawaii or Europe. You are in California- there are a lot of fun things nearby- Yosemite, Disney, the beach- it's all right there.

[ForeverDad]

Most of us can't even manage a shared holiday, much less a shared vacation.  I agree, do your own kids vacations.

I visited Yosemite twice, once when single and again when divorced.

Before marrying I had a free plane ticket and so I went as far as I could - to California.  I hiked at the base of the famous cliff.  Forty five minutes later after endless switchbacks up the rubble I had reached the actual cliff.  Exhausted and unprepared for cliff climbing, I turned back, thinking I'd be down fast.  No, it was a long fifteen minutes, fortunately no tumbling.  45 up, 15 down.

Over 20 years later, I stopped at one Yosemite pull-off with my then 10yo son and we climbed a sloping but little "mountain".  He was a veritable spider up and down.  Not so hard for me climbing up but I couldn't get down, just a little too steep for me, I felt top heavy.  The only way down for me was a four-legged scoot on my butt.  Very memorable and fun.