Overconfidence as protection from our BPD mothers

[Riv3rW0lf]

I am starting to see a pattern in my friendships and acquaintances, and I wonder if anyone else has identified this for themselves as well...

When I befriend a person, I noticed that I am often told the same exact sentence : "It seems like you have it all figured out!" This is rarely said as an attack, nor to bring self-doubt... I think it is a genuine reaction to my way of addressing challenges and issues, and my own incapacity to show vulnerability.

I think that I unwillingly tell people what to do and how to do things in an overconfident manner, and it makes them feel bad about their own doubts and vulnerabilities. Even if I do so, telling them how amazing they are, and how much respect I have for them.

Truly, I am trying to help. But this layer of self-protection I developed over time might truly make me come across as too strong. Even my thesis director said "I had punch" to another student. It wasn't intended as something bad, at least I don't think so, but I can see I sometimes make people uncomfortable. I've been told "I seem so perfect" by a neighbor (this time with an underlying bait). But I am just as lost as everyone else.

So... Thinking more on it... I could only guess that, as my BPD mother used, constantly, my vulnerabilities and self-doubt against me, I learned to survive by seeming overconfident. I have this persona that I play in public where I get everything down to a science... Motherhood, work relations... And without putting people down, this persona still manages to alienate people from me...

And I understand why... When one never shows vulnerabilities, it's hard to relate to them, right?

And I find myself wondering how I can listen more, hold my tongue when I am asked what I think.. Talk more softly to people... Ask questions instead of saying how someone feels and how to feel better...

Anyway... I wonder if anyone can relate to this.

I sometimes feel trapped behind this strong willed, confident woman I seem to be to everyone else in my life. It seems silly, writing that down, it's what everyone wants to be... But it feels lonely. I think I scare people away.

[Notwendy]

I think I am the opposite- while I have been successful in college, career, I have not felt adequate. More like "impostor syndrome" than over confident. I am confident in my own decisions and interactions- but I do second guess myself and am oversensitive.

I had guys tell me that guys are intimidated by me when I was younger and dating. I must have come across as independent and not interested. On the inside, I was lonely and scared. I didn't feel attractive enough or felt worthy to stand up for myself.

Even in my interactions with my H, although I have worked on this and it has improved a lot, I tend to walk on eggshells. I don't have to fear him but he senses that and it upsets him. I am so afraid to upset or offend anyone.

I was outgoing and even considered popular in high school. College, I began to be more introverted and studious. This led to good grades as I didn't party or do a lot in groups. Didn't feel like I fit. From reading now, I see that all these feelings are a result of being emotionally abused growing up. What was written off by others as "it could not have been that bad, look how you kids turned out" - well it's a good thing when kids grow up to be competent adults but it also doesn't mean it wasn't so bad.

I have come to accept that while people may have perceived me as outgoing, emotionally, I am more comfortable being a bit detached. My H is introverted and so it works for us. I have achieved a lot of confidence and self esteem through self work, and 12 steps. Some of the introversion may be more who I really am then being a people pleaser in school- wanting people to like me. Yes, it seems they did, but being a people pleaser doesn't lead to feeling connected.

[Riv3rW0lf]

The title might be wrong... I don't feel overconfident, I appear overconfident to others for some reasons. There is this huge mismatch into how I feel inside, VS what I appear for others if you will.

Like despite all the self-doubts and anxiety, I somehow mastered a "perfect persona" who got it all figured out.

I actually recognize myself a lot in what you wrote Notwendy.

[Riv3rW0lf]

So... After talking with a friend, who's comment started this whole "Am I overconfident and do I scare people away" thing, I am coming up to the conclusion that it was yet another trigger and gaslighting of myself !

Yep...

Yesterday, we were talking her and I, and she seemed a bit unease for a minute and said : "Gosh, it seems like you have it all figured out! I have no idea what I am doing and need to do." And it triggered this whole ordeal ... I didn't take it wrong, but I started feeling scared that she would want to leave the friendship because of how my "confidence" came across... Probably because BPD mother would always tell me how I was "too much", "not enough", "too rational", "like your father", "you have it all figured out, don't you?" in a blaming way.

I decided to open up to my friend this morning, to tell her I felt like maybe I sometimes come across too strong, that it might make people uncomfortable but that I don't mean for her to feel like I am scolding her or telling her what to do when I express myself this way, because I know she knows what's best for her, in the end. And she said : "your confidence is what I love the most about you. Please don't stop being straightforward with me. I am dealing with my own insecurities from childhood, but you never came across as judgmental or pushy, and I know you truly want what is best for me. You pull me up, so don't ever be sorry for being confident. And don't worry, it takes a lot for me to feel offended."

And it stroke me that she truly is the first safe friend I've made...

I showed vulnerability, and just like I pull her up when she does, she did the same for me. Provided empathy, validation, reassurance. She got it. She opened up about her own insecurities and it all felt so very safe.

All this to say: Maybe being accross as confident is not the problem. Maybe I am not the problem. Maybe it's a good thing that those people got scared off. Safe people aren't scared of confident people. They don't feel undermined or competitive.  And when the mask falls, when the anxiety shows, they don't leave. They pull you up, like you did  for them when you felt confident in yourself...

I guess we are all more confident at times than at other times. Maybe the friends that I scared away weren't scared by the confidence... Thinking back on it, they left the friendship more so when my strong persona failed to show up, when I felt anxious and needed validation and empathy, which we all do at times. Then they didn't show up. They showed up for the strong me, not for the me that needed support and assistance in times of needs.

When I show vulnerability, I feel like it's wrong... Like I should hold up my weight. And I do for the most part... But we all need help to get back up once in a while, and there is no shame in it.

Safe friends are there when we fail to be the "strong person" we usually are.

...So I guess there are no wrong ways to appear to the world. We are all humans, and some humans are safer than others.

[zachira]

I am not so sure you appear as overconfident to others and perhaps you are more of a truthteller, saying things that some people don't want to deal with or aren't ready to hear. In dysfunctional families, the truthteller often survives by calling out their truths so they don't become totally enmeshed in the toxic family dynamics with no ability to ever be differentiated from or independent of the dysfunctional family. I think coming from a dysfunctional family we want to help others because we appreciate so much the people that have helped us, and many people do not want our help. I very much appreciate your wisdom as do so many other members. Members often comment on what they share here that they cannot say to other people, as they don't understand and often get gaslighted (their reality totally denied). I am finding that part of developing healthy boundaries for me is realizing where people are at before I share my deepest thoughts or try to find out theirs. You are very tactful and kind in how you share, something I wish I were better at. Insecure people really have their walls up, and if they detect that you get them, than you can get a really negative response from them. These days with all the narcissism out there, many people are selling a false image, and feel very uncomfortable when their false image is not bought and instead the other person tries to make genuine contact with them, which they cannot handle because of their narcissistic facade. It seems on this site, we are all working on how to present ourselves with people in ways that will keep us safe without sacrificing the authentic person we have worked so hard to become. Knowing who is who seems to be the key, and cherishing who we can let our hair down with, while knowing we can't totally ever be completely authentic all the time with anybody no matter how close the relationship.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Zacchira, this is so interesting, this information about the truthteller.

Maybe, in the end, we are simply more authentic, more truthful toward what we feel and see, and we share it, sometimes too early...this authenticity, because it is genuine, makes us appear sure of ourselves... Whenever we are truthful, I'd think that, by default, we come across as more confident maybe... Simply because we are being genuine... The filters are off.

I think I started feeling bad mainly because I picked up on some  body language cues from her that she felt a bit uncomfortable with the straightforwardness of what I was saying... But in the end, my message was that she was this amazing human being, and that she should start working for herself instead of worrying about an abusive, toxic boss (for whom I also worked many years). That she should stop feeling guilty because she wanted more for herself, and that it was clear to me she was worth much more than she thought, and what this boss made her feel like... He likes to keep his employees in line by pushing them down and guiltripping them.

In the end, she said this morning that her H told her she seemed more relaxed after our talks. In the end... she knows I come from a place of love, not judgment.

But you are right Zacchira, that this kind of talk can also push people away, who aren't ready to see the truth about themselves, who aren't ready to open up...

But I think she is... We are very alike her and I, in the way we see the world. But she has a much calmer demeanor than I do. She keeps a lot of her thoughts for herself, while I am more sanguine. I am french after all . Joking but there is definitely a bit of culture mixed in all this as well... I speak with my hands, am very passionate when I talk. Some people like it, but some people despise it.

I understand what you mean about finding out more about who those people are before we share our deep thoughts... I took a gamble yesterday, albeit we had a lot of truthful exchange before yesterday and I knew she was safe... But being safe doesn't mean she won't sometimes get triggered. I get triggered too... But she once again showed me she owns her triggers, is self-aware and is not someone who blames others. She takes responsibility for herself, manages herself and she strives to be the best version of her she can be... I am very grateful I found her. I think she appreciate the straightforwardness, as much as I do.

My H often shows tough love toward me. He calls me out, mostly from a place of love. It shakes me sometimes. But it does open my eyes, and give me the strength I need to protect myself, or move toward my end goal. I guess that's what I did for her yesterday. Called her out on some things she said, because she was confused and feeling guilty for things she shouldn't feel guilty about. And she deserves more than what she is currently getting where she is.
 
I'd be curious to read more about "the truthteller"... Where did you hear about that term? I've read you mentioning it before. Is it something you observe about yourself, or did a therapist mention it? A book maybe?

[Riv3rW0lf]

It seems on this site, we are all working on how to present ourselves with people in ways that will keep us safe without sacrificing the authentic person we have worked so hard to become. Knowing who is who seems to be the key, and cherishing who we can let our hair down with, while knowing we can't totally ever be completely authentic all the time with anybody no matter how close the relationship.

Yes. You just succintly and very clearly outlined my main struggle in life right here.

[zachira]

I learned about truthtellers from Dr. Ramani.

[Notwendy]

I am also apprehensive about being vulnerable with others. I have been able to be vulnerable with others in the past, but less so now it seems with the experience of others being hurtful.

In school, I was afraid to bring friends to my house in case my mother was in one of her BPD dysregulated states.  In high school I "liked" a guy  and did find the courage to have him come over and BPD mother was in one of her states. I was so embarrassed and afraid to be judged poorly about her behavior. I was amazed that this guy shrugged it off- it didn't matter to him. He still liked me. I didn't have to hide what was going on in my family- something we feared not hiding. We were just kids, he was just a high school kid. He didn't have a clue what that gift of acceptance was to me but it meant a lot.

Later on in college, there was a guy who was interested in me. We had a lot in common, and I felt this could lead to something more- eventually I had feelings for him too. One day I told him about my family, my mother- and soon after that, he ghosted me. Ordinarily, this would have been just one of those break ups that didn't work out but to me it seemed to be a confirmation of my (unfounded) fears- that people would reject me if they found out about my family.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Later on in college, there was a guy who was interested in me. We had a lot in common, and I felt this could lead to something more- eventually I had feelings for him too. One day I told him about my family, my mother- and soon after that, he ghosted me. Ordinarily, this would have been just one of those break ups that didn't work out but to me it seemed to be a confirmation of my (unfounded) fears- that people would reject me if they found out about my family.

I'm sorry Notwendy... It truly must have hurt. In hindsight, years later, we can sometimes see how we "dodged a bullet", but when it happens, being discarded like that as a way to bring out our worst traumas...abandonment, defectiveness. But in the end : we are not our family.

My H often joke about : "how defective I am". He says if he had known how crazy my mother is when we were dating, he would never had pursued me, because that's just too much baggage. I didn't know back them how she was. He says that but, in our debut, I had shared with him how my father was... He knew I had "daddy issues" . And when my father didn't acknowledge his presence when they first met, he agreed that my father was weird. And he did meet my mother and thought she seemed very intense.

It sounds awfully mean, writing it like that, that he would say this, but it's a way for him to joke about it, make it lighter, he usually ends it with, "it's remarkable you were able to become who you are after what you've been through". I don't think he'd have stopped pursuing me if he had known about my mother too, because he always shows up when I fall... but I do think some men do... And it's a good thing for us, because else, we'd be stuck with men who lacks empathy and prefer our image over our substance. Men who don't show up when we need them.

Our traumas don't have to define who we are today, but it sure molded us, in many ways, into who we are. With the goods and the bads. In a way, it is easier for us to find in which way we were "damaged" and heal.

[beatricex]

Hi Riv3rW0lf,
For me, it's not as much overconfidence, it's that I don't have a mother.  I mean, literally, she's not here for me.

When you have to be that strong person, that soft place to land for yourself, it can come across as overconfidence. 

No one to hug you when you're sick?  No one to stroke your hair, say "here have some really terrible cough medicine my baby"...

We didn't really get that.

You don't have to strike this defensive posture, part of my therapy was unlearning it myself.  I get it.

Also, it's OK to be you, at any step, you know this.  We're all works in progress...The important thing is that you're aware, you're trying, and evolving.

I personally like being around people who remind me of me (confident) as I feel less "weird" in the moment.  Do you know your personality type?  I was relieved to find my personality type is the rarest for women, less than 6% of women have my personality type.  I always believed I just couldn't get along with women, but that's not really it, I just need to be around men who are more likely to have my personality type, they 'get me.' It's not 'bad' or wrong to be different, you just have to remind yourself that's who you are and to feel better or accepted takes a bit more work to find your "like minds."  hey, why you're here, right?

hugs,
b

[Riv3rW0lf]

Beatricex, I think you are on to something...

Might be a mix of overprotection, and like you said, of not having a mother, of needing to be this strong person to survive with no one to fall back onto. So a lot of people feel they can fall back on me, but when I fall, it's like it disrupts everyone, and few are those who are willing to help... Thanks goodness I have this forum to be vulnerable... And be welcome in this vulnerabity I barely show in person.

I was reading on the scapegoat as a truth teller yesterday and don't identify as the family scapegoat at all.. I took the role of the Hero, but was mostly a lost child. We were all our mothers scapegoat in the end in my family. And I became my own mother, my own father. I was closed off to the world most of my life, stayed by myself. I only opened up recently, to a chosen few, and it seems I can be quite disruptive, not in a bad way but just... I don't know, it's hard to explain.

I looked up my personality type in women... As it turns out you are right, I am an "architect", or INT-J. As it turns out it is one of the rarest types in women. (What a confidence boost to read about it ) Maybe this is why I do not seem to fit in with most people, why I feel so disruptive. I don't fit with this idea people have of how a woman should behave. This friend I made is of a type that complement perfectly the architect... I think that's why we get along well.  We had almost the same percentages in our answers, but she scored only slightly higher on feeling, while I was more thinking. We were both on the line, really close to the median.

I am happy to have a female friend. I find, with men my age, there is an underlying flirting game I don't like, and it makes me highly uncomfortable now.

Out of curiosity, what type are you? And how did it impact your relationships? I'd love to hear more...

[beatricex]

INTJ, ha, there ya go!  I guess in 3D we'd be pals.  ;)

[Riv3rW0lf]

INTJ, ha, there ya go!  I guess in 3D we'd be pals.  ;)

 

You know what? It feels good just to read you have the same type, now I know you get exactly what I mean without needing the words !

[Notwendy]

It's been a while since I took one of those personality tests, and I recall it changed a bit as I matured- my answers to questions were different at times. Reading about it, I think a lot of it fits me now. Beatricex- your post resonates with me. My BPD mother isn't loving or caring, or comforting. She isn't "motherly" in what we think mothers are.

I didn't realize this personality type was rare in women. By middle school though, I somehow felt like an outsider with others. I thought maybe it was my low self esteem or that my mother was different. I had friends, but there was a difference between having friends and feeling a connection- both with males and females. Connections were rare, and something I treasured.

Many women I know have some sort of women's friend group that they socialize with- a best friend group, or tennis group, yoga group, church or volunteer. I have not felt I belonged in a group like that. I tried some, but felt like an outsider in them. I have a few close friends and I am content with that. I don't see the groups as a negative. I am envious in a way- wish I had something like that too but I can't seem to feel a fit with them.

I have attributed this to how I grew up. I didn't want to act like my BPD mother, but without an emotionally stable female role model, how does one act? I would describe my mother as having stereotype "ultra feminine" characteristics. If I reject her characteristics, I risk rejecting parts of myself- and I don't want to do that. Beatricex mentioned that idea- we don't need to be so defensive. First, I think we need some way to differentiate ourselves from our mothers, but when we do, we can enbrace our own characteristics, knowing we are individuals.

[Notwendy]

I'm sorry Notwendy... It truly must have hurt. In hindsight, years later, we can sometimes see how we "dodged a bullet", but when it happens, being discarded like that as a way to bring out our worst traumas...abandonment, defectiveness. But in the end : we are not our family.

My H often joke about : "how defective I am". He says if he had known how crazy my mother is when we were dating, he would never had pursued me, because that's just too much baggage.

It sounds awfully mean, writing it like that, that he would say this, but it's a way for him to joke about it, make it lighter, he usually ends it with, "it's remarkable you were able to become who you are after what you've been through". I

Yes, I may have dodged a bullet with this guy but still, the timing of this upset me. Because we were in the same study area, it was not possible to entirely ghost me as I inevitably ran into him at times and while he would say an obligatory greeting, it was obvious he wanted to avoid me. So I just didn't ever know what happened. Then also I think he dodged a bullet at the time too. When I look back at myself at this time, I was such a people pleaser. I didn't know how else to relate to others. It's that I learned I had to do this growing up. I don't regret what happened- we'd have probably been a dysfunctional mess. It's that it went along with my fear and shame of telling anyone I was interested in about my mother.

What your H said to you would have also reinforced that fear for me- that somehow people would reject me if they knew about my mother. I don't think I told my H about her. He eventually figured it out over time but he stays out of that dynamic. He does understand and goes along with my boundaries with her.