Holiday triggers

[beatricex]

Anyone else feel like the holidays are just a landmine field for old abusers and/or the flying monkeys to break our NC?  I'm waiting for them to "show up."  Maybe it's just an attempt at contact, and not actually showing up physically, but why do I feel this way?

[Riv3rW0lf]

I feel this way too.

I wonder if it's about the family pull...

You know... Often, when my father or brother think about me, I think about them. Or we call each other at moments when the other was thinking about us... Like, no matter if you are high, low or no contact, there is just a family pull we share, on account of sharing the same blood, the having been "together" in this life for so long...

I noticed that when I start feeling very uneased, and thinking about my mother a lot, it is a matter of days before I get an email, or a friend request on Facebook. I wonder if those are maybe associated with periods where she is also thinking of me.

It's a bit of a magical thinking... But there is just so much in this life we can't explain, and I stopped believing in coincidences a long time ago...

I think you might be feeling this way because they are thinking about you...

Have they ever broke contact because of the holiday season? Might be uneased from experience too...

[Channing]

I used to find the holidays so unsettling because BPD relatives seem to love using the holidays as an excuse to throw figurative lumps of coal to those who have displeased them. For years, my mother would send what I called the holiday "nasty-gram" to me and, believe it or not, to my son who was then a child. It did not stop until I told her that I was blocking her phone number and throwing out her cards. This was all done with the purported purpose of "reaching out to us during the holidays."

The best thing I did to cope with all of this was to take my son and leave town for Thanksgiving and Christmas. We would go some place affordable that had a nice holiday vibe (think small towns that have a nice tradition of decorating the public spaces in a sort of over-the-top way to draw people to the area). This developed into a yearly tradition for us and created so many happy memories.

This year I can't afford to do that but I noticed, strangely, that the years of creating my own happy holidays has purged the anxiety that led me to the "leave town" strategy in the first place. My son and I just had a lovely Thanksgiving with friends and I am looking forward to Christmas!

[Riv3rW0lf]

This year I can't afford to do that but I noticed, strangely, that the years of creating my own happy holidays has purged the anxiety that led me to the "leave town" strategy in the first place. My son and I just had a lovely Thanksgiving with friends and I am looking forward to Christmas!

This is very nice to read and it gives me hope that all those tainted memories will someday morph into genuine happiness when Christmas and other celebrations come around.

I often get highly depressed in the days leading to my birthday, I also wondered why... I now think it is, like you describe, anxiety from all those years where it went so very wrong... It seems more likely that the family pull !

[beatricex]

 Definitely uneasy from experience for me. 

Channing, I like the "leaving town" idea.  I might do that next year.

Riv3rW0lf, I second not believing in coincidences..

b

[pursuingJoy]

Birthdays do this to us too. H often gets miserable around his birthdays...he has actually said he hates his birthday and doesn't want attention drawn to it. He can't explain why.

When we were expected to include MIL in all holidays, I began to dread them.

We spent Thanksgiving Day moving MIL into the apartment building next door, 100% her choice. She had some extra plastic containers and I made the mistake of saying I could use them for leftovers when we had friends over for friendsgiving at our house the following day...kicked myself as soon as it left my mouth. H tells her everything, so I figured she already knew.

Sure enough, she later said to H, "PJ hurt my feelings. Why am I not welcome at your house for Thanksgiving?" Cue my eyes rolling.

Thankfully it didn't divide us the way it has in the past. H said he wishes I would allow her to stay overnight. I said I wasn't ready and shorter visits meant positive visits. It was a quiet conversation with little emotion.

It's sort of wild how our bodies and minds hold on to the anxiety, even long after the events have taken place.

[pursuingJoy]

I noticed, strangely, that the years of creating my own happy holidays has purged the anxiety that led me to the "leave town" strategy in the first place. My son and I just had a lovely Thanksgiving with friends and I am looking forward to Christmas!

This makes me so happy. You carved out the space to work for you and redeemed the holidays. I feel inspired and so happy for you! 

[Couscous]

H said he wishes I would allow her to stay overnight.

Why does he want her to stay overnight?

[Notwendy]

Holidays tend to pull at our emotions in some ways.

My BPD mother didn't do much for the holidays. If we had Thanksgiving dinner, it was at a restaurant.

When I was in college, I went home with room mates over Thanksgiving. Their mothers cooked amazing food. I think it was the first time I had a Thanksgiving dinner like that. My MIL does that too. So I wanted to do this for my own family one day.

But trying to create a new experience,  I tended to go overboard and do too much over the holidays and then feel resentful but I don't want the "restaurant meal" like we had.  Since Covid- several restaurants offer family style Thanksgiving meals to go. So now, it's a combination. I get some of the "fixings" to go and make the turkey and some sides at home. Nobody seems to mind and I enjoy it a lot more.

I think we may struggle with not wanting our families to have the experiences we had with a disordered parent so we emulate what we wish we had. Eventually I think we have to find what works for us- as individuals and do the holidays our way.

[pursuingJoy]

I think we may struggle with not wanting our families to have the experiences we had with a disordered parent so we emulate what we wish we had. Eventually I think we have to find what works for us- as individuals and do the holidays our way.

Preach 

couscous, he argues that it's a long way to drive in one day but I know him well. Driving an hr and 45 mins twice a day is nothing to him, especially when it's something he really wants to do. He's driven much further for less. So yes, the driving is inconvenient but I don't think that's the hang up. I think it has more to do with MIL hating the limit. She feels rejected and refuses to visit unless it's on her terms (ie, overnight). That's her choice.

[zachira]

Pursuing Joy,
I really respect how you are setting heathier boundaries with your MIL and your husband. You have been on this site for quite awhile and know how to help members set healthier boundaries that make things easier with a difficult MIL enmeshed with her son.

[pursuingJoy]

Zachira that means so much. 

Thinking of you all this holiday season. It helps so much to know you're here. Great thread, beatricex!

[Rhubarb]

What a great thread! My first thought beatricex was 'PTSD' sort of tongue-in-cheek, but not really. It's the walking on eggshells factor. I love the positive holiday memories you created, I am taking note!

This year I'm experiencing some anxiety around Christmas that's coming out as a bit of stubborness and rebellion around being very protective of boundaries. It's kind of surprising me, but I think is probably very healthy, if not entirely directed at the right people.

For background- BPD mother fell out with her sister (my aunt) earlier this year and pushed so hard accusing my uncle of all sorts that my uncle snapped and told her she had BPD (she does not acknowledge anything like this, possibly some anxiety and depression but was hugely shamed when younger so I do understand this). She then went after my sister and then me. We haven't seen each other since but she did apologise for her 'angry text'. Read onslaught of bile...you know the sort.

It seemed that they may never talk again so I planned to have Christmas with my inlaws  and invited mum and sister to join which they were going to do (inlaws are lovely and just so accomodating I thought they could take priority for once this year-we always do Christmas day with my family...which does 'feel like Christmas' to be honest).

Since then mum and aunt/uncle seem to have made up by sweeping everything under the rug and are having Christmas as per usual. So I'm grieving not having Christmas with my cousins and aunt/uncle after a very fractious year when I'd really love to give them all a big hug. It was my choice to do something different this year, but I am struggling to adapt to a different Christmas. I'm being asked to prep all Christmas morning at someone else's house after I've already offered to bring the ham (that was my way of contributing something generous but easy for me).

I've pushed back saying I'll come to help for a bit but just want a quiet morning with my husband and kids before all the people time. I guess I'm feeling a bit more quiet and introspective than usual, and it would probably be a lovely thing to come and prep together but as a cook for work, it sounds like a job with too many unknowns.

Does anyone else find that they are so not used to setting small boundaries that they then go too far, because they're so used to their boundaries being bulldozed?

I'm trying to go into Christmas a bit more relaxed and open, and not dread like mentioned in the opening thread. Mum is joining us after Christmas with the inlaws and I'm kind of dreading it as who knows what mood she'll be in and I suspect she'll ruin it.

I so appreciate you guys knowing what this is all like.

[Imatter33]

This year I'm experiencing some anxiety around Christmas that's coming out as a bit of stubborness and rebellion around being very protective of boundaries. It's kind of surprising me, but I think is probably very healthy, if not entirely directed at the right people.


Does anyone else find that they are so not used to setting small boundaries that they then go too far, because they're so used to their boundaries being bulldozed?

I face this every year Rhubarb,
I am NC with the majority of my family and so my H often says I have zero boundaries with his family. And I blame him for it.
Case in point I went to my MIL’d house  for an (unrelated to Christmas)  play date.
But bc I was solo she started using me as a sounding board for figuring out Christmas.
I’m so sensitive to this holiday in general bc I shoulder grief, confusion and anger at my unique circumstances with my family.
So I don’t tell her to stop talking which I wanted to do immediately, bc I still think it’s rude to tell people to stop speaking.
But I didn’t inform my h until many days later all the expectations she has.., and we fought.
It then instantly goes from… my personal responsibility to tell her to stop, or wait to talk to us together…the boundary I did not set….

To . Well we’re skipping it all!

And I’ll tell you we are not going to skip. But I have created a sour taste in my mouth by not making a small boundary when I needed to.
When in my heart I want to show love, but I’m so angry at my dysfunctional ways  it comes out as fight or flight in the private conversations with my H.


Why couldn’t I have said… “ sounds like you have a lot on your mind. We will talk with my H about dates.. let’s go do that craft.

I think the decision to be with in-laws makes sense in your situation but what i clearly see is… FOG is in many family dynamics not just BPD families. We are all shuffling expectations and boundaries with most people in our life.

Advice, be in the moment, try to have fun. Don’t let Fog win.
Hug.

[Imatter33]

Small update: My heart is pounding but I sent my MIL the dates we had avail knowing full well it's not the one she was hoping for. But I did not Justify Argue Defend or Explain...and my brain loves to JADE. It is like riding uphill to not justify.

But i'll tell you it feels good to break that habit!

Wouldn't you say you can't be a good boundary installer if you Jade your boundaries?
 
One Step At a Time.

[kells76]

Small update: My heart is pounding but I sent my MIL the dates we had avail knowing full well it's not the one she was hoping for. But I did not Justify Argue Defend or Explain...and my brain loves to JADE. It is like riding uphill to not justify.

But i'll tell you it feels good to break that habit!

Wouldn't you say you can't be a good boundary installer if you Jade your boundaries?
 
One Step At a Time.

Imatter33, your comment about not JADE-ing our own boundaries stood out to me, and makes sense.

As boundaries are things that are under our control to do (or not do, or say or not say), and are things we do to keep ourselves as ourselves (not bleeding over into other lives or letting other lives/feelings bleed over into ours in an undifferentiated way), if we "announce" our boundaries to others and follow up with "and this is why my boundary is justified"...

then what we are communicating is:

This is up for debate, and if you "outargue" me, then I guess I don't get to do my boundary.

But boundaries aren't about who wins the contest of "who is the most persuasive"!

Boundaries aren't a topic of debate and don't need to be announced or explained (when dealing with disordered people).

So, as we move through the holidays, it's a great point to remember -- we don't need to undermine or weaken our own boundaries (expressions of needs) by feeling like we have to justify them to others.

If we are at a point in life where only a day trip for Christmas works, then that's just how it is, and we might say "We're able to visit on the 25th from 12:00-4:00, see you then!" That would be instead of saying "Is it OK with you if we only stay from 12-4 on Christmas? We have a long drive and can't find a place to stay the night".

The first option says what we're able and willing to do. It's under our control.

The second option opens it up for debate: well, it isn't that long of a drive, is it? And you can stay with us! See, problem solved!

...

Really helpful insight, Imatter33, thank you.

[Imatter33]

Imatter33, your comment about not JADE-ing our own boundaries stood out to me, and makes sense.

As boundaries are things that are under our control to do (or not do, or say or not say), and are things we do to keep ourselves as ourselves (not bleeding over into other lives or letting other lives/feelings bleed over into ours in an undifferentiated way), if we "announce" our boundaries to others and follow up with "and this is why my boundary is justified"...

then what we are communicating is:

This is up for debate, and if you "outargue" me, then I guess I don't get to do my boundary.

But boundaries aren't about who wins the contest of "who is the most persuasive"!

Boundaries aren't a topic of debate and don't need to be announced or explained (when dealing with disordered people).

So, as we move through the holidays, it's a great point to remember -- we don't need to undermine or weaken our own boundaries (expressions of needs) by feeling like we have to justify them to others.

If we are at a point in life where only a day trip for Christmas works, then that's just how it is, and we might say "We're able to visit on the 25th from 12:00-4:00, see you then!" That would be instead of saying "Is it OK with you if we only stay from 12-4 on Christmas? We have a long drive and can't find a place to stay the night".

The first option says what we're able and willing to do. It's under our control.

The second option opens it up for debate: well, it isn't that long of a drive, is it? And you can stay with us! See, problem solved!

...

Really helpful insight, Imatter33, thank you.

Hi! I was going to break up your replies but as a whole you eloquently restated exactly the ah hah moment of boundary setting as it pertains to not jading.
Don’t give people, even people we love dearly the opportunity to outargue you on your own boundaries.
We save out breath our energy and then can be more in control and more loving.

[todayistheday]

It's so exhausting.  BPD Mother is 85.  She's still the gatekeeper and rule maker.  We have to do things the way she wants or my Dad suffers the consequences. 
She changes the rules on who she wants there when every year and if we get it wrong, she's not happy.

I want to go to see the other family members, but have to get past the gatekeeper.  She also insists that dinner is at her house, even though she is not able to cook it and she wants everyone out of the way so she can do it all on her own.  Insists she fixes the dinner and ONLY she fixes it.  Don't even offer to bring a casserole or dessert.  She goes all ballistic about how she's able to do it all.   We all know that Christmas afternoon, she'll go ballistic about nobody helping her with anything.

The hard thing is that the rules keep changing about when we are and are not allowed to be there.  And when we are EXPECTED to be.  I have learned to keep myself out of the line of fire.  Unfortunately, if she's mad at someone , my Dad is the one who gets the "punishment".   At 88, he has never learned to stand up for himself, so he never will.

I'll go back to their city a few days after Christmas and hang out with my sister.  I'm thankful to be far enough away to be out of the fire.

[zachira]

Todayistheday,
Your mother sounds very similar to how my mother with BPD behaved at Christmas. Well into her 80s, she had to do all the cooking and would not let her children help. She would have her meltdown every Christmas because she was so exhausted. What changed was when my brother got cancer. We made sure that my brother got to enjoy his last Christmas on Earth, and that meant standing up to mom.
Glad you are far enough away to be out of the fire.

[Riv3rW0lf]

The rules changing around Christmas...I can relate to that.

I was telling H recently about gifts giving in my family. Once, I offered a massage therapy certificate to my stepfather. I was in college and didn't take the time to go get an actual card somewhere. I figured it was even better this way, in a sense, because he could then decide where he would like to go. So I wrote a card with what I was giving him, letting him know to choose a place and time and I'd cover the expenses. I got a phone call the day after Christmas from BPD mother, angry, guiltripping me because I hadn't taken the time to give an actual certificate. That this was a half-ass gift, that I was horrible, might as well not give anything, that they were going to use it and that I was better pay. (For the record, older brother often gave this kind of gift and never got guiltripped or   on because of it, but whatever).

I figured, ok, fair enough, maybe I should have taken the time...

So the following year, I took my time to find the perfect gift for everyone... Well you guessed it, got   on because quote "the gifts were too nice". Now everyone felt bad, because my gifts were too much, that I was throwing money out the window.

Is it really a surprise that I get awfully anxious now when the gift opening time arrives?

My H has been increasingly triggered these past few weeks... I suspected it had to do with Christmas. Finally got him to open up, as it turns out, gift giving is also an issue in his family. His parents asked him recently if we were doing gift exchange this year? ... We give them something every year and they still ask about it? This is so strange...

Our parents are literally worst than our kids !  Maybe I should ask them too: "hey by the way, are you planing on giving me something this year?" ... wow!  I suspect the gift giving process wasn't fun on his side either. Way to make Christmas about love !  Once, H said he wasn't interested in a big gift exchange (for him Christmas is to treat our children, but he doesn't see the point in buying big fancy gifts to his parents, we don't even buy ourselves big fancy gifts), and his mother answered : "If you don't want to give gifts then don't bother coming."

So we decided this year that from now on : Christmas and gift giving would be kept between our children and us, and would happen on the morning of the 25th, in our PJs, followed by a nice family brunch and cocooning. No extended family allowed that morning. We will gift ourselves something, but in the safety of our house, of our family. It did decrease my stress level tremendously when I decided to do that, if only because, even though I still have to partake in the whole party of the 24th and other parties, I allowed myself to make space for us, for the people I truly cherish and love, to enjoy time together and play with the freshly opened gifts. And I am looking forward to that morning.

MIL and FIL requested to join us on the 25th, and H and I didn't even feel bad to tell them : "No, this moment is for us. We will see you at the party."

For all of us here : I believe we have to find way to render Christmas happy again... For too long, it was ruined for us, hijacked... We deserve to make space for us on that day, to celebrate it the way we truly want.

[seeingthelight]

Oh man... boy are they a trigger for me. Most holidays, Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, etc... always had one portion of the day where my uBPD mom would lose it. I can still hear her screaming "Merry f*cking Christmas" followed by some tirade about how ungrateful we all are. One time she kicked me out when I came over for Easter dinner... good times ha.

After my Dad passed she pretty much stopped doing all holidays. The only reason we would have Christmas is because I would come home and make sure it happened and was semi festive. My brother and I are adults but we have a small family so I try my best. My husband and I now host all of the holidays... some go smoother than others but I guess it is what it is.

[Couscous]

pwBPD have high anxiety levels at baseline, so holidays push them over the edge. It is be best if pwBPD do not host holidays dinners, but if they are a mother, they would then be overcome with feelings of inadequacy if they don’t host, so therefore they will usually insist on doing it all to prove that they are adequate. But then they will lash out at everyone while doing so to alleviate their feelings of stress, (displacement aggression is what this is called.)

Perhaps they could be calmed down if people would give them hugs and tell them how much they appreciate their efforts - although this would probably trigger them because they feel unworthy of love.

I think the only way to have a peacful-ish holiday dinner when you have a family member with BPD is to go out to a restaurant. Unfortunately, the enablers will normally refuse to agree to this though under the pretext of “not wanting to hurt mom’s feelings”, which really is a too bad because I think the pwBPD would much prefer doing this even though they may protest initially.

[beatricex]

Just revitalizing my old thread since the Holidays are such a trigger for me.

I am now 3.5 years into NC with my sBPD Mom and enabling Dad.

This is round 2 of NC for me (the first round of NC was a decade ago and lasted 7 years; an uncle encouraged me to call his brother my Dad)

The question I'm asking myself this year is will my parents show up on my security video again?

I feel so much better since going NC they have only shown up once that I know of.  It was to throw a dog toy over the side fence into the back yard.  This was a gift I gave my Mom, for her dog.  They waited and did it after dark (around 7:30 PM).  Found the toy the next morning, rewound the tapes, and YES, there they are trying to park their car around the side where they thought there were no video cameras.  My Dad appears to have seen the camera the exact moment he throws the toy over the fence.

His body language was very funny.  It was like "I'm DONE with you!"  throw, hand flip and stomped back to the car

2 years ago this was scary, now I'm laughing at it.

I do wonder when they will show up again....they keep sending my husband and I birthday cards as if nothing happened.

 b

[pursuingJoy]

b, the juxtaposition of throwing your gift back at you then sending cards like nothing happened is so odd.  My goodness.

Here to express solidarity with all of you. May our boundaries and blood pressure remain as stable and steady as we know ourselves to be. Hold the line, friends, and enjoy the beauty and the insanity of it all.