Christmas and favoritism

[Riv3rW0lf]

Interesting?

BPD mother sent Christmas gifts via Amazon for our children. One note for each of them :

For dear son:
Merry Christmas, DS, have fun, big hugs

For dear daughter:
Merry Christmas, DD, we love you so much,  big hugs, tons of kisses!

And there, clearly visible, one of the ways BPD grandparents can hurt our children. They have a golden grandchild and they have no shame showing it. She did it to my nephew (golden) and niece (scapegoat), and would do it to my children if she was close to them.  

That or I am too sensitive, but I doubt that now

What about you? Is there clear favoritism from your BPD mother toward one of her grandchildren?

How do you deal with it?

[zachira]

Riv3rWOlf,
Of course you are concerned that your BPD mother is favoring one of your children. You are not being too sensitive. My immediate and extended families are the poster families for having scapegoat children and golden children in all the different generations and family relationships. I have been scapegoated my entire life by both the immediate and extended families. The best protection for your children is for you to love both your children as they are and not for how they perform in life, and to only allow your children to be around their grandmother if you choose to do so when you are present. I think it would be protective for your children to not give the notes to the children and possibly the presents if the present for one child is notably different from the one for the other in sending a clear message of favoring one grandchild. (You can tell your children that the presents are from their grandmother, if you choose to give them the presents.)

[Couscous]

What about you? Is there clear favoritism from your BPD mother toward one of her grandchildren?

How do you deal with it?

Last my mother wrote to ask me what DS 1 wanted for Christmas and didn’t even mention DS 2…

But to be honest, it doesn’t actually bother me. My attitude is that of course she is going to play favorites.

What I am wondering is what feelings are coming up for you around this issue.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Couscous, I honestly do not care. I don't plan on reading them her messages. I was using the opportuny to start a thread to share on, because this is likely something that others are going through, or went through themselves...

I think, if I was in contact, and she was actively acting this way toward my children, I would likely mind, and so was using the opportuny to bring up the subject. I do believe no contact helps a lot in "not minding it".

I find it interesting that she even bothered writing those kind of messages considering they both can't read. It's interesting how it seems completely impossible for her to understand things from another person's perspective, or what the results of her actions might be. She just does it for her, to make herself feel good. Can't say I am surprised. Just observations.

[Methuen]

Hi Riv3rw0lf,

The difference between the messages to the two children is disturbing.  It is distressing when they feel the need to demonstrate their dysfunction like this.  I don't understand what they "get" from doing it.  Our daughter was 7-8 years old when she asked me one day why grandma preferred her older brother.  It was gut wrenching.  I talked to my mom about it (didn't know about BPD back then), and she ignored it, and didn't change a thing.  I think that was when I started to see there was something different about my mom.  When it only affected me, her behavior just seemed normal.  But once I had my own children, I started to be able to see her dysfunction more clearly.  

Have your children already seen her notes?

Also, how old are your kids?

There are infinite possibilities of ways for a pwBPD to stir up dysfunction and chaos, although sadly, I have found I can predict almost everything my mother will say and do at this stage.  I always try to be prepared, and think of what will come ahead of time so I can be one step ahead of her, and plan my response. This has wrecked my life in a way.  Still, mom can always surprise, and the frustrations and chaos just never stops. This is probably why I am so distrustful not just of BPD mom, but sadly, of people in general, and also why I wear the label "worrier".

Screening your phone calls and parcels is one thing, but depending on how old your children are, you either already have to deal with her contacting them via text on their phones, or this will come in the future.  And she will continue this path once she starts texting them.  It gives her something.  

I would like to better understand WHY a pwBPD needs to have a golden child.  The scapegoat I get.  But why a golden child?  How does that serve their dysfunction or meet the needs for their sense of self?  Do they see the golden child as an extension of themself?  Is this their view of what they want to be - or how they see themself - as golden? What is really going on there?

You are not too sensitive.  This sounds like something she has criticized you for.  It's BS.

It is pretty bold and crass to put it in writing as clear as day like that.   It's clear evidence of playing favourites...as well as that she doesn't see the problem.

What we did with our daughter, was acknowledge the problem.  I honestly told her I didn't know why grandma did that, and I didn't like it and didn't think it was right, but that grandma was the problem.  We all lived in the same town, and so I couldn't with hold the presents from their grandma.  

Our daughter always knew she was loved and supported by us, so she found her own way to get through this "preferential" treatment for her brother.  

Maybe there are lingering effects I haven't identified...I don't know.  I have plenty of my own effects from having been raised by this mother, so it stands to reason there are effects on the grandchildren as well - hopefully the effects are much more watered down.

[Turkish]

Is it, or just a boy vs. Girl thing?

Do the kids know what the the other's messages were?

[Notwendy]

You'd know more about her behavior with your kids than I do, but like Turkish mentioned, my first impression was that she may have wanted to not say the same message to both kids, and it was more the boy/girl thing, and a boy might think the "I love you and kisses" message was icky.

But you would know more about how she interacts with them, type of gift to see the favoritism.

[Couscous]

So after sleeping on this, I realize that the part of her message that would have bothered me was the over-the-top demonstration of affection. The reason being is that I would know that those words word were written with one intention only: to manipulate. I think I would feel angry by that and not by the favoritism. I think that this reaction is not so much an “emotional flashback” but rather the appropriate “mama bear” protective response to seeing someone trying to manipulate my child. Manipulate people are wolves in sheep’s clothing, and it’s a perfectly healthy response to react in anger toward a wolf attempting to harm one’s child.

[zachira]

I really see Couscous' point of view. It is so confusing to be love bombed as a gateway to being easily manipulated. If your mother is unable to love her children and grandchildren, and pretends to do so, how will that negatively affect your children in having and making loving relationships? So many of us on this site suffer from being in relationships that are similarly dysfunctional to the ones we have/had with our disordered family members. Whatever you decide to do, I think it is important to point out the discrepancies to your children between your mother's words and actions in ways that are appropriate for the age and maturity of your children.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Methuen,

DD and DS are respectively 4.5yo and 20months old. I haven't read the notes to them, and might actually return the gifts through Amazon. This would give us credit, and I might buy art supplies for both of them or something. Still unsure. The gifts are truly not that great and it is the principle I guess? H doesn't want us to keep them.

Their age is the reason I find those notes so very bizarre. She has had a fixation on my daughter ever since my son was born.

Notwendy, Turkish, I don't think it is a gender thing... But a rank thing... She also favored my nephew (oldest) over my niece. It is as if, the moment the second child is born, she projects abandonment on them, and the perceived abandoned child (the oldest) is preferred. Like she needs to compensate for the attention and love they "lost" once the second child is born.


Methuen, Couscous, were the favored children of yours also your eldest? Notwendy, how about you and your sister?

I remember when my son was born, she kept saying how sad it was for my daughter, how abandoned she must have felt, guiltripping me about it. When we went to visit her, she would completely ignore my son, stating it wasn't fair to my daughter because she could tell, while he couldn't tell the difference.

Couscous, I agree with the love bombing being what throws me off the most, also what got to me the most when I initially got the notes. And I did feel a need to protect her, more than him. I actually consider the love bombing more damaging for various reasons, and because it is often followed by the witholding of love. There is manipulation, but also a clingyness to the message that truly repulse me.

I calmed down pretty fast, and being no contact is the main reason for me being able to "stop minding it". In the end, she has no power here on us. When I was in contact, I would instantly get a fight or flight response when she hugs my daughter and tries to get her attention. I know how she works, how she uses love to create wedges between people. I am close with both my children, and I don't want her wedging my daughter against us. Her fixation on my daughter is my main trigger in my relationship with my mother.. to be honest, my daughter is the reason I am not breaking no contact... I truly don't want my mother close to her because of her intensity toward her.

I was always aware of this specific fixation, but what is the most bizarre thing to me is the fact that : she is aware those messages go THROUGH ME. That my children won't see the messages and can't read. I don't even think she is able to think further than her writing those messages... She is just... Sending her dysfunctional love toward them in an effort to feel closer to them, somehow, unable to see how intense her notes are, and unable to understand how those notes will be perceived by their father and I.

[Couscous]

My older son is the one she favors.

I remember when my son was born, she kept saying how sad it was for my daughter, how abandoned she must have felt, guiltripping me about it. When we went to visit her, she would completely ignore my son, stating it wasn't fair to my daughter because she could tell, while he couldn't tell the difference.

It sounds to me like something other than favoritism might be at play between your mother and your daughter. It seems that on one level she is confusing herself with your daughter, and on another level she is thinks that she is also her mother, but she’s the good mother, and you’re the bad mother, and she is trying to rescue your daughter from you. It reminds me of object relation’s theory about how an infant splits its mother in two, into the good breast and bad breast. Perhaps your step-mother would have some insight into that.

[Methuen]

Our first born (son) was her favourite.

[Notwendy]

Golden child isn't my mother's eldest.

My BPD mother doesn't seem to have a favorite grandchild but also none of them seemed to have taken to her. She's not warm or affectionate with them or anyone.

With her, it's more about what can they ( or anyone else ) provide for her- narcissistic supply rather than a certain one of them. Her interactions with them are more about what can they do for her rather than an interest in them. I didn't have to say anything about it when they were younger. It's as if they sensed it about her. They are polite with her but wary. Now that they are older, they understand what BPD is.

[Riv3rW0lf]

My older son is the one she favors.

It sounds to me like something other than favoritism might be at play between your mother and your daughter. It seems that on one level she is confusing herself with your daughter, and on another level she is thinks that she is also her mother, but she’s the good mother, and you’re the bad mother, and she is trying to rescue your daughter from you. It reminds me of object relation’s theory about how an infant splits its mother in two, into the good breast and bad breast. Perhaps your step-mother would have some insight into that.

Yes, I've written about this dynamic between DD, BPD mother and I on here many times. It's actually more than her seeing me as the bad mother and herself as the good mother...

We were visiting last November and she would tell my daughter, opening her arms: "Come see mama!". Then she would correct herself to say: "Well, grand-mama". The thing is, her nickname, as a grandparent, is something else entirely than "grand-mama". She chose and carried that nickname for more than 10 years now (since my nephew was born). I would not have thought more about it if it had just been this one time, but she did this slip of the tongue many times.

What got even weirder is when she started confusing MY name, and started calling ME "grandma"... She would give me my son and say : "Go see you grandmother". (!) I remember, I was coming up the staircase and literally looked at her like a deer in headlight. And she would say "well... not grandmother, but.. grand... mother?" It was so awkward!

Both lapsus combined, many times, over the course of two weeks... It seems like a Freudian slip to me, more than a confused slip of the tongue. So yes, she definitely sees herself as the mother of my children, I've felt this dynamic very strongly, which always put me in mama bear mode when in her presence... But then, I am not the bad mother, I am the bad grandmother for some reason.

Something just hit me... Back then, I figured it had to do with her own trauma, with MY grandmother; That she was reliving her own motherhood, painting me as her mother... But no... She is reversing OUR roles. Like she wants to be me, somehow... And she projects herself, her actual role, onto me.

Yeah... This kind of realization really bring to light the psychosis part of the Borderline Personality Disorder. This is a bit freaky.

So there is more to it than just plain favoritism, but there is also favoritism. And I do think you are correct and that this favoritism stems from her projecting her fear of abandonment onto DD. She relates to the pain of DD of having been terribly abandoned when DS was born (by the way, DD is fine and loves her little brother, she still gets plenty of one on one time with us too)... while I am trying to protect them from her projections.

It's interesting though that all our BPD mothers prefer the first born, ain't it? Maybe just a coincidence, but an interesting one. (Notwendy, I kinda consider your mother more like a covert narcissist from how you describe her... But then, like we often say here : it is a spectrum.)

Couscous, have you also observed this kind of dynamic between your mother and you when it comes to your children? What about you Methuen?

[Notwendy]

We were visiting last November and she would tell my daughter, opening her arms: "Come see mama!".

It's interesting though that all our BPD mothers prefer the first born, ain't it? Maybe just a coincidence, but an interesting one. (Notwendy, I kinda consider your mother more like a covert narcissist from how you describe her... But then, like we often say here : it is a spectrum.)

I think so too. If she didn't have the self destructive behaviors and victim perspective that is so typical of BPD, I would say she was all that too. She seems to be a combination.

My BPD mother doesn't show affection. I don't think she's ever held out her arms for my children or her own. It's mainly narcissistic supply. She wants to speak to them to ask them questions - to mine for information she can then report to her friends and relatives so she can appear to be an invested grandmother. If she sends a gift- it's to elicit obligation for them to contact her. I think we all feel a certain level of obligation on a basic ethical basis. They are polite kids and so will know to say thank you. But we don't share personal information with her. It's more of a general "respect the relationship of grandmother" level not an emotional connection and they keep an emotional distance.

[Methuen]

What about you Methuen?

Oh yes.  Maybe it was a bit different though.  When golden child grandson was birth-5 yrs old, I think that inside her head she believed/pretended like she was his "idylic" mother.  I think she treated him the way she wished to be seen as a parent.  Or maybe it was her way of "re-doing" her parenting. I don't know.  I've given up trying to understand.  It's hopeless. She used to say a lot of dumb and head turning things. "Come to mommy" was very likely one of them. It sounds like her.  It was a long time ago and so much water has gone under the bridge, I couldn't report exactly what she said because I never documented it, but she said a lot of wacky stuff.  When he was little, she absolutely mooned over him.  She wasn't like that with our daughter (2 years younger).  Even a wee child can see that they aren't being treated the same as the older sibling by the grandparent.  As time wore on and grand-daughter felt this (she was 8 at the time), my mother didn't care when I talked to her about it.  That told me something.

On another note, my mom has felt entitled to have me "mother her" all her life.  She cared for her mother when she was 14 and her mom was dying, so this probably led to her believing and feeling entitled to have me meet her narcissistic and emotional needs.  I don't know.  As an elderly person, she even said to me "will you be my mommy?" so I know what she wants.  I can't play that ball game.  Even today, she used the line "how much I cared for your children when they were little and now I really need you in return" to my husband on the phone.  I was there recording the whole 38 min conversation, but never said a word.  My H talked her down from a ledge.  There's a lot going on with her.

So I don't know if my mom was flipping her role and my role with the grandchildren, or if she simply thrust all her attention onto the firstborn son to use and train him to one day dote on her in return.  It could be all of the above or none of the above on any given day.  Her goalposts change as often as her feelings.  Her "facts" and "feelings" change all the time.  

Despite being her golden child, as an adult, S27 is balanced. He's lived about 500km away since going to UNI. He knows she's very complicated.  He's witnessed her abuse a home care worker when she was completed dysregulated and out of control emotionally.  He knows how she has treated me.  He also knows she's not all "evil".  There used to be good in her too, but now that she's so decrepit and her needs are so intense, she's only capable of thinking of herself any more.  

None of us try to take sides with her.  She's not a devil woman, but she's also not nice.  She can be black, she can be white, and she's been every shade of grey in between.  All we can do is work with whatever shade is presenting itself on any given day.  I can't remember the last time she presented all-white.  Over 20 years ago before my dad became ill and died.

I guess my point about the grandchildren is that despite her time with him, he still turned out balanced and healthy, so keep the hope alive that your kids will grow up to be able to navigate difficult people.  Maybe they even gain valuable experience to navigate other difficult people that cross their paths in their adult life.  Who knows.

Everybody's situation is different.  What works for one doesn't necessarily work for the next.

She is reversing OUR roles. Like she wants to be me, somehow... And she projects herself, her actual role, onto me.

RW, I'm trying to understand, are you thinking that she sees herself in the parent role, and you in the grandparent role?  Even if this is the case, would knowing this help you?  Or is it enough to just stay in your lane and continue to do your parenting in the way you know to be best? And continue to hold your boundaries?

[Couscous]

She is reversing OUR roles. Like she wants to be me, somehow... And she projects herself, her actual role, onto me

I wonder if this is something to do with a lack of sense of self and/or an extreme lack of boundaries. It’s like she can’t differentiate between herself and you, her daughter, and even between herself and her grand-daughter. She seems to be far along the BPD spectrum.

My mother is motivated by a desire to be popular. She doesn’t seem to try to compete with me — she just wants to be the most popular grandparent. I think she favors my son mainly because he’s the same sun sign as she is, so it’s probably some kind of narcissistic thing because thinks her sun sign is the best in the Zodiac.

[Turkish]

I think she favors my son mainly because he’s the same sun sign as she is, so it’s probably some kind of narcissistic thing because thinks her sun sign is the best in the Zodiac.

This sounds like Magical Thinking which is a whole other subject...

[Riv3rW0lf]

Oh yes.  Maybe it was a bit different though.  When golden child grandson was birth-5 yrs old, I think that inside her head she believed/pretended like she was his "idylic" mother.  I think she treated him the way she wished to be seen as a parent.  Or maybe it was her way of "re-doing" her parenting. I don't know.  I've given up trying to understand.  It's hopeless. She used to say a lot of dumb and head turning things. "Come to mommy" was very likely one of them. It sounds like her.  It was a long time ago and so much water has gone under the bridge, I couldn't report exactly what she said because I never documented it, but she said a lot of wacky stuff.  When he was little, she absolutely mooned over him.  She wasn't like that with our daughter (2 years younger).  Even a wee child can see that they aren't being treated the same as the older sibling by the grandparent.  As time wore on and grand-daughter felt this (she was 8 at the time), my mother didn't care when I talked to her about it.  That told me something.

Thank you for sharing your experience with your own mother and children. It seems to me this is a pattern within BPD grand-mothers.

On another note, my mom has felt entitled to have me "mother her" all her life.  She cared for her mother when she was 14 and her mom was dying, so this probably led to her believing and feeling entitled to have me meet her narcissistic and emotional needs.  I don't know.  As an elderly person, she even said to me "will you be my mommy?" so I know what she wants.  I can't play that ball game.  Even today, she used the line "how much I cared for your children when they were little and now I really need you in return" to my husband on the phone.  I was there recording the whole 38 min conversation, but never said a word.  My H talked her down from a ledge.  There's a lot going on with her.

This is creepy. We had discussed the "will you be my mommy" part before; the one with your husband is new and really intense too... It does feel like your mother has a similar way of looking at you than mine has looking at me... Like they want to be us somehow... maybe merge with us.

I would second this having to do with the low sense of self, Couscous.

None of us try to take sides with her.  She's not a devil woman, but she's also not nice.  She can be black, she can be white, and she's been every shade of grey in between.  All we can do is work with whatever shade is presenting itself on any given day.  I can't remember the last time she presented all-white.  Over 20 years ago before my dad became ill and died.

I guess my point about the grandchildren is that despite her time with him, he still turned out balanced and healthy, so keep the hope alive that your kids will grow up to be able to navigate difficult people.  Maybe they even gain valuable experience to navigate other difficult people that cross their paths in their adult life.  Who knows.

I think this good/bad parts of them is what made it a very complex trauma for us... It was never equal. My mother could be the "perfect" mother at times, but I was continually scared of her... And this very fear would make her turn uncontrollably against me. She could sense everything. She is not bad in her very core though, she isn't antisocial, on the contrary, she gives herself away to people almost instantly. She wants to help, she wants to feel needed and loved. And she is... until people gets too close, then fear replaces love.

I do believe she is far on the borderline spectrum, especially since my grandmother went to live with her for a few months... It really triggered her childhood trauma and it's like she lost one of her final ties with reality. So I do relate with what you say about your mother, Methuen, how it just got worse with age.

I am glad your son is doing well and is well adjusted. In the end, no matter who she tried to be, she was the grandmother, and you, the mother. If a mother occupies her space, if a mother loves her child and acts like a mother, is present, protective when she needs to be, then no matter the amount of love bombing happening: no one can replace her in her child's heart. In the end, you were there for both your children. So no matter who grandma is... she is grandma. It simply isn't and will never be the same bound.

RW, I'm trying to understand, are you thinking that she sees herself in the parent role, and you in the grandparent role?  Even if this is the case, would knowing this help you?  Or is it enough to just stay in your lane and continue to do your parenting in the way you know to be best? And continue to hold your boundaries?

I think it has to do with the upcoming holidays... I'm oscillating, wondering if I am doing the right thing being no contact. So yes, understanding it, seeing the psychosis, it helps me understand my own worries, and maybe to stick to my boundaries. Right now, my children are not in contact with her at all. They see my father and his wife, and my husband's parents. But they don't see my mother and her boyfriend. I do miss my stepfather though. And I feel bad for him, near the end of his days, and he doesn't get to see us... Part of me thinks he understands, but in the end : he will always be her ally.

So I don't know...

I guess I wanted to break no contact at some point. But I have one memory that keeps popping up when I do, of her in the bathroom with my daughter, who needed to go. And it was taking a while, so I went to see what was happening, and she was literally holding my then 3years old, crying in her arms, telling her how much she missed her. And my daughter looked at me, and she was very serious, and her eyes were helpless, confused. It was the third time she had seen my mother in her life, because we lived so far away.

And it just makes me shiver... and I realize it might have nothing to do with my daughter herself, and everything to do with little me wanting to protect my daughter, to prevent her from going through what I have been through... But you are right that in the end: I am the mother, and SHE is the grandmother. In the end, I told my mother to tone it down, and went to get my daughter out of the bathroom, out of my mother's hold.

Still...

It is a knot I don't know how to untangle.

[Methuen]

She is not bad in her very core though, she isn't antisocial, on the contrary, she gives herself away to people almost instantly. She wants to help, she wants to feel needed and loved. And she is... until people gets too close, then fear replaces love.

This.  Exactly.  There has been a  pattern. Not only with dumping her stuff on me, but she was estranged from her baby sister for 10 years after she moved away.  I can imagine what was said.  Another abandonment right?

She also said some toxic stuff to a lifetime best friend, and they have been estranged for years.  It happened when her friend’s mother went into long term care.  I can guess what happened.

So I totally get your words.  

I think it has to do with the upcoming holidays... I'm oscillating, wondering if I am doing the right thing being no contact. So yes, understanding it, seeing the psychosis, it helps me understand my own worries, and maybe to stick to my boundaries. Right now, my children are not in contact with her at all. They see my father and his wife, and my husband's parents. But they don't see my mother and her boyfriend. I do miss my stepfather though. And I feel bad for him, near the end of his days, and he doesn't get to see us... Part of me thinks he understands, but in the end : he will always be her ally.

I think that in moments of internal conflict like this, it helps to remember that there are no right or wrong decisions.  You try something.  If it works, great. If it doesn’t, it’s a learning experience.

If you decide to go for it for the reasons you’ve suggested, do it on your terms.  Maybe at their house, so you can leave when you want.  

On the other hand, I have found that my guilt has decreased over time with low contact.  My guilt was aweful in the beginning as H took on more roles after I went back to work.  Boundaries were easier for him.  I have had some success with emotional detachment, and now I feel less guilty.

Perhaps the same is possible for you.  The difference is that I’m LC, not NC.  NC isn’t possible for me for a lot of reasons.  

Do what you think is right RW.  If afterwards you want to change it up, you can.