Does BPD get better with age (or) is it your caretaking better with age?

[Outdorenthusiast]

Ok - so I have read multiple books that say BPD “seems to get better with age.”  I would like to know from those with BPD SO’s if this is true in your opinion, or instead if you feel you have gotten better in dodging bullets and emotional caretaking over time?  I am 25 years into a marriage with what I know now is uBPD and this question is really nagging at me.  Personally for me I feel BPD is stable or worse, but I am just smarter.    Thoughts?

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[Notwendy]

I don't know where they got this information. Not much has been known about BPD until relatively recently. There may be some studies but I don't know how long they have kept up with these individuals and how many of them. I haven't seen where it differentiates between caretaking and enabling behaviors.

I have an elderly mother with BPD. For her younger years, people didn't know about BPD and therapy has not been effective with her for several reasons but possibly one of them is that nobody knew about what was effective with BPD at the time.

I think she's in a much better situation in terms of her needs being met financially and has assistance at her age, due to my father's caretaking, but it didn't specifically improve the BPD. Enabling behavior was a default- we didn't know anything else to do at the time- and it may have brought temporary relief for her in the moment, but enabling reinforced the behaviors and so these behaviors increased. This isn't just specific to BPD. In any situation, positive reinforcement increases that behavior.

My situation is just one example and we can't generalize on one but it's a situation of BPD from an era where little was known about it. There are also examples of people with BPD where therapy has had some success. I find the statement "improves with age" to be too general. I would like to think it's true now that more is known about it and how to address it, but I also think more detail is needed about best practices for a partner if they want to be supportive.

[Pook075]

I have a little insight here since both my daughter (24) and my wife (44) have BPD.  I married my wife when she was 20, so it's a decent comparison.

My kid growing up was a bad kid from an early age- always angry, always working angles of manipulation, always bullying others.  My wife, on the other hand, was kind and loving to everyone she met.  So they were polar opposites in terms of their personalities and honestly their values.

Around 18 (when I met my wife), I can now see all these years later that my wife showed classic signs of BPD.  But again, it's in perspective...she was kind and loving to everyone.  My kid at that age was only kind and loving to whoever she was fixating on, some family (not my wife/I or her sister) plus her small circle of friends.  Everyone else didn't matter, they were afterthoughts.  And when my kid labeled someone black, she unleashed incredible amounts of hate/anger towards them.  So again, polar opposites.

In my wife's early 20's, I saw classic BPD rear up in intense arguments, bursts of anger/violence, then a few days of the silent treatment before she completely apologized and became mega-loving again.  My kid was like this from maybe 8 years old into her 20's, but she never really got around to the forgiveness part except for the person she was fixated on at the time.  Everyone else was dead to her.  So some similarities here, but very different outcomes.

At 24 (this year), my kid and I restored our relationship and we're now actually close.  I can't say why, maybe it's because my wife and I separated, but I was black for 15+ years and now I'm white.  I did completely forgive her though and that somehow flipped a switch in her mind.  She realized that she's always wanted dad's love more than anything, and that she never thought she could have it...which is why she was so terrible to me.

This year is also when my wife left.  I've noticed the past few years that her depression and anxiety increasingly became worse, and she'd spend more and more time away from home (with other family).  My wife's never fully committed to me the way a wife should, and I never knew any different because I've never lived with another woman (except my mom).  But there's always been a push/pull there and it's steadily got worse throughout our marriage.  However, the violence stopped maybe 20 years ago- instead of lashing out, my wife just shut down.  Only within the past year did my wife start yelling at me again.

One massive difference though- we knew my kid had BPD at maybe 16 or 17 (due to US laws, not an official diagnosis until 18).  My wife still denies she has anything but depression.  So I've seen my kid get progressively better through counseling and maturity, but I've seen my wife get progressively worse in shutting down, anxiety, depression, etc. 

That works two ways though- I also knew what was happening with my kid, but I had no idea with my wife until our doctor mentioned BPD a few months ago.

Again, same disease, very different outcomes.  My kid is the typical explosive, sometimes extremely evil and cruel version...which has become much less frequent. My wife is the completely shut down while suffering silently version...which has become much more frequent.  However, my wife's anger and violence disappeared for about 20 years, only to return recently.

I hope that helps- I can't tell you exactly what all that means.  My kid is definitely better in all ways at 24 while my wife is better with anger/worse with internalizing at 44.

[Rev]

I agree with Not Wendy...

I would add that nothing, absolutely nothing, gets better without a sincere effort to put the work in - to be intentional at working at it.

It is really important to also point out that when people equate effort with results and use results to evaluate the sincerity of effort, bad things happen.

Effort is effort. Love is accepting the results it produces and sticking with it.

Rev

[Notwendy]

I think Rev's example also points out the variety about how BPD is expressed in different people. Each person is a unique combination of genetics and environment.

While there is a known genetic component, it's not a given that children of BPD parent also have BPD. None of my parents' children have BPD but that doesn't mean we didn't learn dysfunctional behaviors growing up. We did and have put in some work to manage them and do better.

We have to also consider what went on with the partner with BPD in their childhoods. My mother is the only one with BPD in her immediate family although there tends to be a bit of a narcissistic streak in them, they are all functional adults, with long term and stable relationships, financially stable and so are not within a PD diagnosis. Her parents didn't have BPD. It is possible for parents without BPD to have a child with BPD. There's other components to this. I suspect there may have been some abuse involved with my mother, not from immediate family but there were several relatives who lived close to each other and they spent time with each other. I don't know this for sure.

So Rev, your wife was raised in one environment, your D in another, and each got their own mix of genetics- and different interventions and outcomes. This is one reason that the "gets better with age" seems like a too broad generalization.

[cranmango]

Research generally shows that the traits in BPD are stable, but some of the worst self-destructive behaviors (suicidal gestures, impulsive behaviors) do decrease in middle and older adulthood. The chronic emptiness, mood swings, and interpersonal conflicts tend to persist. So it’s debatable whether it gets “better” really.

Of course every individual with BPD is different, so there’s no one size fits all trajectory.

[SaltyDawg]

IMHO BPD varies with the interpersonal behaviors with the people that he/she is dealing with.  She has a toxic coworker, that she butts heads with and things definitely do get worse, not better, and she is 51.  I've had a T with lots of experience tell me that it gets better with age, well my W is 51, and she got worse due to environmental factors.

[Outdorenthusiast]

One would think “getting better over time” would indicate less impulsivity, less triggers, less emotional turmoil, less shutting down, suicide attempts, yada, yada…. Definitely a genetic element.  I personally have not experienced “less.”  However, I personally have built a massive bag of tricks to shorten/diffuse/avoid/curtail the disregulation in my SO.  Has anyone experienced “less”?

[kells76]

Good discussion.

For those who haven't seen it yet, we do have in our "Psychology Q & A" section a thread called Do the symptoms of BPD improve/worsen with age?

Lots of observations from other members. Check it out and let us know if anything resonates with you. It also references a 2007 study by Zanarini et al., though it sounds like the study may focus on lower functioning pwBPD.

Hope that helps;

kells76

[waverider]

It changes, not just because of the pwBPD but also because of the reactions of those around them.

I would suggest the high volatility dies a little, but the the optimism can also die so a generally misery can set in. Over time those around them, family especially, can almost permanently back away increasing the victimhood/abandonment issue, both real and perceived.

Partners can loose delusions that things can be fixed, and give up, expectations drop.

That said everyone, and all situations are different. Though a general dulling down is probably a common theme. whether that is that good or bad, depends on what you want out of life. A lot depends on what the non wants out of life, and how they feel about running out of years to play with.

What is most likely to change is the nons personality

[Manic Miner]

I did read on several Psy websites of BPD getting better with age, more understanding, wiser, with less drama. In my case it's other way round - some things are better for sure, but the core issues are as hot as ever.

This got me thinking though, since BPD is quite new mental condition. Surely, it was present in this form or another for decades, possibly throughout our modern societies and lifestyle, post WW2 era. But curious to know what was considered before BPD? Did those people have some condition? If so which one?

[mitten]

Interesting thread.  I've also read similar in a few books- about BPD getting better with age...    Sounds like most people here aren't actually experiencing that however.  I wonder if it has to do with a couple things:

1.  Those that have kids might have stuck it out until kids were young adults, to keep the family together.  Now that the kids are out of the house the spouse of the BPD person no longer wants to stay around or try as hard, and it's clear to the BPD spouse, making things tense and decline. 

2.  Pure burnout from always walking on eggshells after 25 years of marriage for example.  Exhaustion sets in.  You start thinking about what you want in the later parts of your life so you lose interest in your BPD spouse, making things tense and decline.   You've essentially given up.     

[Notwendy]

It changes, not just because of the pwBPD but also because of the reactions of those around them.


Partners can loose delusions that things can be fixed, and give up, expectations drop.

What is most likely to change is the nons personality

I will paint a more sober picture from my point of view. My parents seemed to be more volatile when we were younger, but another possibility is that once we left home, we just didn't see it.

As a teen she blamed me for being the cause of their issues. So I assumed that when I left for college, my parents were fine. A sibling let me know that things hadn't changed between them. Yet once we all left home, we didn't witness the scenes at home.

I wonder if this observation has to do with the sample of pwBPD who come to the attention of professionals. It would make sense that someone who had the self awareness to seek help would be most likely to improve. For my mother, she truly believes the issues are with other people not her and she has no reason herself to seek out help. If anyone was to seek help it would be my father, but he shared her denial. It appeared that things were better between them but with no children at home, nobody saw otherwise and neither of them would say otherwise. A therapist might think things are better if nobody reports anything. From what I have observed, her BPD has not improved.

I know this sounds depressing. BPD is on a spectrum so there's probably a variety of outcomes. Yes, it's a recent diagnosis and my parents married prior to it being known. I am not aware of the diagnoses they may have used then. Perhaps things are better now and outcome is better. I hope so.

[zachira]

In my large extended family, there are many disordered people, including several with BPD. I find your question difficult to answer because I have become more aware of the BPD behaviors in my family with time and experience, so it seems to me that the behaviors have gotten worse while at the same time, I have become less tolerant of the BPD behaviors.