Advice if I need to leave

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi everyone,

I'm asking this question with some guilt. But I feel like it's something that I need to ask for my own sanity, in case this doesn't get any better and I decide I need to leave. My husband with BPD traits is not working, doesn't drive, has no close family or friends. I've encouraged him to get his license, to do volunteer work, and to reach out to meet people but he just hasn't taken any steps. I was talking with my therapist today, and she said that it might be time to at least think about what it would look like if I needed to get out of the relationship. I don't want anything bad to happen to him, and I don't want him to end up homeless. I would be willing to help him out to get on his feet if we did divorce, if it came down to it. But what would that even look like? Has anyone been through this? I feel trapped sometimes, and I don't want that to be the reason I choose not to leave. I need to sort through my own feelings, and also see if anything improves with me setting better boundaries. But I know this isn't sustainable the way it's going. Thanks for any help or advice you have.

[thepixies21]

Hi everyone,

I'm asking this question with some guilt. But I feel like it's something that I need to ask for my own sanity, in case this doesn't get any better and I decide I need to leave. My husband with BPD traits is not working, doesn't drive, has no close family or friends. I've encouraged him to get his license, to do volunteer work, and to reach out to meet people but he just hasn't taken any steps. I was talking with my therapist today, and she said that it might be time to at least think about what it would look like if I needed to get out of the relationship. I don't want anything bad to happen to him, and I don't want him to end up homeless. I would be willing to help him out to get on his feet if we did divorce, if it came down to it. But what would that even look like? Has anyone been through this? I feel trapped sometimes, and I don't want that to be the reason I choose not to leave. I need to sort through my own feelings, and also see if anything improves with me setting better boundaries. But I know this isn't sustainable the way it's going. Thanks for any help or advice you have.

[Couscous]

You are in a very challenging situation. Your best bet is to begin researching the divorce laws for your state. You will probably have to pay alimony until he gets on his feet, and he will be entitled to as much as half of any marital assets, so that should take care of any feelings of guilt.

Because of his volatility and history of violence (throwing things is considered DV) I do not recommend giving him any kind of ultimatum, nor any hint that you are considering divorce, and recommend that you seek out legal advice from women’s advocates in your area before making any moves. It would also greatly benefit you to begin shoring up your support network so you aren’t dealing with this situation alone. Wishing you all the best.

[Rev]

Hi everyone,

I'm asking this question with some guilt. But I feel like it's something that I need to ask for my own sanity, in case this doesn't get any better and I decide I need to leave. My husband with BPD traits is not working, doesn't drive, has no close family or friends. I've encouraged him to get his license, to do volunteer work, and to reach out to meet people but he just hasn't taken any steps. I was talking with my therapist today, and she said that it might be time to at least think about what it would look like if I needed to get out of the relationship. I don't want anything bad to happen to him, and I don't want him to end up homeless. I would be willing to help him out to get on his feet if we did divorce, if it came down to it. But what would that even look like? Has anyone been through this? I feel trapped sometimes, and I don't want that to be the reason I choose not to leave. I need to sort through my own feelings, and also see if anything improves with me setting better boundaries. But I know this isn't sustainable the way it's going. Thanks for any help or advice you have.

Hey there Pixies...

Yep, pretty much everyone goes through this, and no, it's not simple and it's not fun.

It sounds like your therapist is encouraging you to envision possibilities.  How does that feel in of itself - just the idea of playing scenarios out in your mind and then, I guess, eventually in your heart?

Are you in touch with that emotional process deeply or are you just beginning.

Just rounding out the situation a little bit, could you say a bit about how long you have been together? You say a long time, but that could mean different things.  I am assuming that there are no children in the picture? (I say that because I don't see any mentioned.)

At this point, all I can add is this - inaction will only lead to things getting worse. And, if there is a history of being volatile, the please follow the advice of treading very slowly, without ultimatums. Couscous is 110% bang on with her advice.

You really need to have some space that is truly your own - physically and emotionally. These words that you wrote in another post, I have said them almost word for word, including after she would hit me. Please be careful.

(He isn’t abusive but he throws things when he’s upset, and he just explodes about things and then apologizes. I’m totally not perfect, I can definitely work on being more present in the relationship, I started a new job and I work a lot. When I’m home I find myself just zoning out and that’s not good.  But honestly I’m just so emotionally exhausted and I’m struggling to keep my empathy.)

Hang in there. Reach out any time.

Rev

[SaltyDawg]

I agree with couscous and the Rev on this.

I'd like to add, is he going to therapy, is he open to therapy if he isn't going.  He is aware partially or fully of his mental health situation?  If so, then there is help, if he has the will to do the work of therapy, if not, then the only thing that can make him seek help is leaving him, and that only works a small fraction of the time.

If he is actively seeking therapy to address his issues, then it might be worth staying, if not, then it isn't.

I know the 'trapped' feeling all too well.  Also, the possible outcomes are definite possibilities.  Do not let FOG [fear, obligation, guilt] get in the way of your thought processes.  Use the DBT skill of 'wise mind' to discern what is best for you.

Only you can decide what is best for you.  Only you can take care of yourself in this situation.

[thepixies21]

Hey there Pixies...

Yep, pretty much everyone goes through this, and no, it's not simple and it's not fun.

It sounds like your therapist is encouraging you to envision possibilities.  How does that feel in of itself - just the idea of playing scenarios out in your mind and then, I guess, eventually in your heart?

Are you in touch with that emotional process deeply or are you just beginning.

Just rounding out the situation a little bit, could you say a bit about how long you have been together? You say a long time, but that could mean different things.  I am assuming that there are no children in the picture? (I say that because I don't see any mentioned.)

At this point, all I can add is this - inaction will only lead to things getting worse. And, if there is a history of being volatile, the please follow the advice of treading very slowly, without ultimatums. Couscous is 110% bang on with her advice.

You really need to have some space that is truly your own - physically and emotionally. These words that you wrote in another post, I have said them almost word for word, including after she would hit me. Please be careful.

(He isn’t abusive but he throws things when he’s upset, and he just explodes about things and then apologizes. I’m totally not perfect, I can definitely work on being more present in the relationship, I started a new job and I work a lot. When I’m home I find myself just zoning out and that’s not good.  But honestly I’m just so emotionally exhausted and I’m struggling to keep my empathy.)

Hang in there. Reach out any time.

Rev

First off, I really appreciate everyone's replies to this post. These are things that I think I've been thinking for a long time, but it feels like I can finally breathe when I type them or talk to my therapist about them. I feel like I've been in denial for some time about all of this.

To answer the questions: We've been together for about 13 years. And no, we don't have any children. It's been a discussion in the last few years but I have not felt like it is the right time with both of our issues we bring to the table. I think since I made that post, where I said he isn't abusive, I can say that I was wrong. My therapist agrees too, that what's happening is abuse. Even if it seems like the objects being thrown aren't directed at me, it creates an environment where I feel scared and unsafe, and like I need to be careful about what I say next. We talked about the "12 steps" with codependency, and the question was brought up, "what are you running from", and I do have to say I've been running from accepting how unhappy I am. I've made a lot of excuses for him over the years to myself and to everyone else. I don't have the bandwidth to do that anymore. I'm slowly working on accepting the possibility that if the relationship does end, that I'm not the bad guy for ending it. He is in therapy, and also agreed to considering a day program but I have no idea if it's just words or if he is willing to do it. He does have a depression diagnosis, and I don't think it's my place or healthy for me to tell him that I think he might have BPD. But I'm hoping if he talks with a psychiatrist and therapists that maybe he can hear the truth. In the mean time I'm just going to focus on myself, and like you said trying to give myself the space I need to feel my own feelings.

[Pook075]

I don't want anything bad to happen to him, and I don't want him to end up homeless. I would be willing to help him out to get on his feet if we did divorce, if it came down to it.

Hey Pixies.  You've received some great advice and I just want to second everything that others have said.  Get away from the abuse...and that doesn't mean it has to be divorce.  It just means you're focusing on you, clearing your mind, and making the best possible decision for your future.

On the other side of the coin, I wanted to sort of "call you out" on the statement you made above.  It's all about him.  You couldn't fix this in 13 years of marriage, because you're not causing these problems.  Respect your own boundaries- this is a "him problem", not a "you problem".  You take care of you, and that forces him to take care of him in whatever capacity he chooses.  If he hits rock bottom, that's on him.

[Rev]

First off, I really appreciate everyone's replies to this post. These are things that I think I've been thinking for a long time, but it feels like I can finally breathe when I type them or talk to my therapist about them. I feel like I've been in denial for some time about all of this.

To answer the questions: We've been together for about 13 years. And no, we don't have any children. It's been a discussion in the last few years but I have not felt like it is the right time with both of our issues we bring to the table. I think since I made that post, where I said he isn't abusive, I can say that I was wrong. My therapist agrees too, that what's happening is abuse. Even if it seems like the objects being thrown aren't directed at me, it creates an environment where I feel scared and unsafe, and like I need to be careful about what I say next. We talked about the "12 steps" with codependency, and the question was brought up, "what are you running from", and I do have to say I've been running from accepting how unhappy I am. I've made a lot of excuses for him over the years to myself and to everyone else. I don't have the bandwidth to do that anymore. I'm slowly working on accepting the possibility that if the relationship does end, that I'm not the bad guy for ending it. He is in therapy, and also agreed to considering a day program but I have no idea if it's just words or if he is willing to do it. He does have a depression diagnosis, and I don't think it's my place or healthy for me to tell him that I think he might have BPD. But I'm hoping if he talks with a psychiatrist and therapists that maybe he can hear the truth. In the mean time I'm just going to focus on myself, and like you said trying to give myself the space I need to feel my own feelings.

Hi Pixie...

I just want to honour your courage in getting this out.  It takes a lot of trust to do that and I just wanted to affirm your words.

The parts in bold - they tell a story.  You have spoken some powerful truth there. I'd encourage you to listen to yourself - 'cause it's good advice that "Pixie" just gave you. (see what I did there   

 And what Pook said is true - protecting yourself is one thing and what you choose to do the with relationship is another. There are many ways to love and forgive someone without putting one's physical and emotional health at risk.

Keep reaching out when you get insights.  It seems to be helping you find some footing.

Hang in there.

Rev

[CodaDad]

You are in a really tough situation. I heard a funny quote one time that when a codependent person dies, their partner’s life flashes before their eyes! The moral of the quote being that we sometimes worry about others at the expense of ourselves— and as an observation I am reading that from your post. I stop short of telling you whether to stay or leave. But I would remind you that your partners change ultimately must come from within them—not you. Before I divorced my BPD ex-wife, I thought for sure she would end up spiraling out of control. But the truth is she was spiraling out of control even though we were married, and I was getting caught up in her spiral. So ultimately I decided for the sake of my then three year old son to keep my side of the street clean, which is better than a street that is entirely filthy. So I went ahead and divorced her, and guess what, her life stayed just as chaotic as it ever was—but mine and my son’s greatly improved! Flash forward six years and she completely went off the rails and now I have full custody. Had I stayed with her I am certain she would have eventually gone off the rails anyway (because when we were married nothing I did helped her anyway) and my son and I would have just been collateral damage. This is all to say if you decide to leave and you focus on your own self-care and let your ex partner be responsible for themselves, And then you have good odds of long-term happiness, and your ex partners odds will depend completely on them. But if you stay together I strongly urge you carefully look at whether you have codependent traits that need to be addressed, and still focus as hard on your own self-care as you wish they would focus on treating their BPD. Good luck! Sorry for any weird typos because I am voice texting.

[Notwendy]

There is another poster here -WitzEndWife - who has been in a similar situation and has also just left her marriage. It may help you to look at her posts and her journey to that decision.

Of course, you are a kind and caring person and don't want your H in a bad situation, but also, your kindness puts you in a position where that could be exploited. In addition, you too deserve that kind of kindness for yourself, yet you are choosing his well being over yours.

You may feel as if you are a bad person if you leave your H to fend for himself. The other side of this "kindness" is that, as long as you provide for him, he has no incentive to gain any skills. One thing I learned about enabling is that while it may let you look like you are being so nice, the good person, it's actually self serving. Enabling keeps the person dependent. It manages your own fears of them leaving or being alone, or your own fears of their reaction if you say no. Seen in this light, enabling is actually harmful to the person we claim to care about.

What I am saying is that, your H is a grown man, capable of doing something to help himself- there are so many kinds of jobs out there to do. It's important that he finds something he can do for himself. He needs to have a sense of accomplishment. Being dependent really hurts someone's self confidence. He may need mental health help, he may need some training for a job, but whatever it is, he can do something and perhaps if he didn't have your financial support, and if he's truly too mentally ill to do anything, he needs to be on disability. He also needs to have a job to pay into social security, so he's eligible for that one day too. He may be eligible for spousal social security, but he should also have his own. And the longer he isn't doing this, the longer he would have to work before retirement.

He may end up homeless but that would be by his own actions and choices. If he's completely unable to work, he'd probably be eligible for mental health disability. Perhaps it would help you to see what other resources are there to help him so that you don't feel as responsible for all of it. You do not have to be responsible for his support- especially if he's capable of doing something to support himself.

[ForeverDad]

Since you are married, a divorce would be handled in domestic court or a similarly named court.  No children makes the divorce much less complicated, but at least once the process is over you can more or less walk away.

Don't feel guilty.  To your credit, you did try for over a dozen years.  That is a lot longer than most others would have attempted.

Court will want to deal with you both as over-18 adults.  What that means is you're NOT obligated to be his caregiver.  It is up to you, the court and the lawyers to determine the details once divorce is final.  My advice is to "check your feelings at the door"... in other words, now is the time to phase out your attempts to be overly fair or overly nice.  (All of us were overly fair and overly nice, to our detriment.  These otherwise excellent qualities worked against us when unwinding a marriage.  Sorry.)  Odds are he will not be nice or fair to you so you will have to look out for your own welfare.

Priority is you, not him.  While it may seem cruel, later you will be thankful that you protected your interests.  After all, he is an adult and if he needs aid, the court has agencies and resources to which he can be directed.

Alimony may or may not be an issue.  Your lawyer can detail how your state and local court deals with such matters.  In any case alimony, if any, will not last longer than half the marriage and usually is only long enough for the Ex to shift into a post-marriage life, perhaps employment or career guidance.  (I was married 18 years and my alimony was limited to 3 years.)

If you have any inheritance money, it will remain yours as long as you keep it financially separate from any marital funding.  Consult your lawyer before making any moves or changes.

One thing to adjust beforehand, as long as it doesn't upset or trigger him, are any joint accounts... bank accounts and credit card accounts.  Why?  Joint status would enable him to potentially drain the joint accounts or add to joint debts.  (It's okay if, for example, you had a personal credit card account and he simply had card holder status.  You would control such an account and could simply cancel his card when necessary.  If joint, it would be complicated to exit.)

Same with deeds, titles and other legal ownership.  Do not enter into or sign any new joint ventures.  It could make your lawyer's task more complicated - and more expensive.

[thepixies21]

Since you are married, a divorce would be handled in domestic court or a similarly named court.  No children makes the divorce much less complicated, but at least once the process is over you can more or less walk away.

Don't feel guilty.  To your credit, you did try for over a dozen years.  That is a lot longer than most others would have attempted.

Court will want to deal with you both as over-18 adults.  What that means is you're NOT obligated to be his caregiver.  It is up to you, the court and the lawyers to determine the details once divorce is final.  My advice is to "check your feelings at the door"... in other words, now is the time to phase out your attempts to be overly fair or overly nice.  (All of us were overly fair and overly nice, to our detriment.  These otherwise excellent qualities worked against us when unwinding a marriage.  Sorry.)  Odds are he will not be nice or fair to you so you will have to look out for your own welfare.

Priority is you, not him.  While it may seem cruel, later you will be thankful that you protected your interests.  After all, he is an adult and if he needs aid, the court has agencies and resources to which he can be directed.

Alimony may or may not be an issue.  Your lawyer can detail how your state and local court deals with such matters.  In any case alimony, if any, will not last longer than half the marriage and usually is only long enough for the Ex to shift into a post-marriage life, perhaps employment or career guidance.  (I was married 18 years and my alimony was limited to 3 years.)

If you have any inheritance money, it will remain yours as long as you keep it financially separate from any marital funding.  Consult your lawyer before making any moves or changes.

One thing to adjust beforehand, as long as it doesn't upset or trigger him, are any joint accounts... bank accounts and credit card accounts.  Why?  Joint status would enable him to potentially drain the joint accounts or add to joint debts.  (It's okay if, for example, you had a personal credit card account and he simply had card holder status.  You would control such an account and could simply cancel his card when necessary.  If joint, it would be complicated to exit.)

Same with deeds, titles and other legal ownership.  Do not enter into or sign any new joint ventures.  It could make your lawyer's task more complicated - and more expensive.

Thanks so much for all of this info, I'm still not sure what my decision is going to be. He is going into intensive treatment and I'm willing to see how things go. But I'm trying to prepare myself for the possible realistic outcome that I can't do this anymore and what it would look like to get out if needed, if there isn't any huge breakthrough or change. The info about alimony is something I didn't know, so thank you for that, it does make it less daunting than I was anticipating. Having support and info makes me feel like I can do this if needed, so I really appreciate everyone's input. :-)

[ForeverDad]

BPD is a dysfunctional personality trait (or traits) that don't develop out of nowhere.  It is often attributed to a few factors including heredity and childhood experiences and perceptions.

If ever someone talks of long term alimony as an excuse of his current mental state or limitations, it is your responsibility to make clear neither the marriage nor your good efforts were the causes.