My New Therapy : I already feel different

[Riv3rW0lf]

I choked a 200lbs male for the first time this week. With his approval, I put my legs around his neck and slowly pushed them down until he tapped, because he couldn't breathe.

Yesterday, I was shown how to break a man's arm with my legs, how to position myself, and I was told : "You should show it to someone, they will be impressed." As it turns out, I am a fast learner and Jiu Jitsu seems natural for my body.

It is hard to describe... But I feel so different... I think it has to do with finally knowing that I CAN FIGHT BACK. I don't have to always freeze. I should sometimes flee. But I can also fight back. My body, even as small as it is, can choke and break the arms of big men. My goal is not to hurt anyone, but just knowing what is possible... It is giving me back the power that was stolen from me when I was a child.

I got beat up too during class. I had to tap, I was choked, got my arm trapped. I have no techniques. I laughed nervously, felt like a small kitten in the arms of a brown belt who could just do whatever he wanted with my body. But he didn't. He gave me space to try things. He held back and let me choke him. He empowered be, and showed me what my body could do.

He is teaching me about myself.

It was all safe. And it was empowering.

I noticed my initial reaction : I go limp. I freeze. So he told me : "stay on your knees", "put your arm here, get up, small steps" and just like that, I was free of the choke.

It is an amazing feeling.

Before class : I am a nerve wreck. All day, I felt like my heart was going to burst. I worry. No men will want to roll with me. I am new. I am a female. I know nothing. What the heck am I doing going there...

After class : I am empowered, free, I feel my body for the very first time. More so than I ever could doing yoga, or running.

This book will be my next read : https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/58636888-transforming-trauma-with-jiu-jitsu

I can already tell it works. For desensitization, for empowerement, to get back the fight response my mother's rages took from me, to get back the body men stole from me at different moments in my life... because I couldn't fight, because I froze and dissociated, blaming myself for my own lack of guts.

Some people start at 20.. others start at 60. I highly recommend it.

There are no therapists in my area. They are very busy. So I found the next best thing... And surprisingly, only one week in, I can already tell this actually works. Mind truly = Body.

I wanted to share... In case others have tried it and would like to discuss their experience, or just so you know this is also a route toward healing.

[SaltyDawg]

For me outdoor exercise, riding my bike, is my therapy to clear my head. 

I have an excellent trail system near my house, and I ride it regularly.  Yesterday I had to outrun a popup rain storm, and it was exhilarating, as it was a battle between me and Mother Nature and who would win by outrunning the other.  It was a draw, I had some sprinkles on me, but as soon as I got inside it rained hard.

Self-care is the best therapy for anyone.  At least that is my opinion.

It took me 2 decades to rediscover it [the time I have been with my pwBPD].

[Riv3rW0lf]

SaltyDawg,

I did A LOT of running and heavy lifting, as well as yoga's and HIIT workouts. I have been physically active for a while now and I loved all of those and they all helped, in one way or another. Self-care and physical training certainly kept me from sinking. And I will keep on running and lifting.  

Learning a martial art, as a survivor of sexual assaults, and emotional/physical abuse, has an impact on me that none of those other sports could ever had.  

I froze so much in my life, and whenever someone even raise their voice, I still do. I was a lost child, hiding in a corner, making myself as small as possible wherever I went. Teachers would call me out on my silence in the classroom, if you can imagine. Learning to fight is reactivating my FIGHT response, the only response I could never used safely growing up.

It seems to balance me in a way I could never balance myself via other sports.

[Outdorenthusiast]

 

This is such a good post!  I am proud of you and your celebration!  I cannot relate to your experience, but I can fully enjoy your excitement 

[Riv3rW0lf]

This is such a good post!  I am proud of you and your celebration!  I cannot relate to your experience, but I can fully enjoy your excitement 

Thank you !

It took a lot to step out of my comfort zone on this one. And I am very glad I did ! You are right, it really is a celebration post !

[Couscous]

Thanks for sharing! That’s really great to hear. In fact, I think I will go enroll my H in a class right now.  OK, fine, I will tell him your story and see if *he* will be inspired to try out a class.

I watched an interview with Bessel van der Kolk where he talks about the benefits of martial arts training for childhood trauma.

[SaltyDawg]

Learning a martial art, as a survivor of sexual assaults, and emotional/physical abuse, has an impact on me that none of those other sports could ever had.

I agree.  I remember taking a self defense class from a Judo master in college.  I was the big guy, and an 80 pound girl, soaking wet, was able to throw me over her back and on to the mat, and I was 220 pounds at the time, I was literally almost 3 times her size.

I can see for a woman it is one of the more valuable classes to take, especially with all the nuts out there.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Thanks for sharing! That’s really great to hear. In fact, I think I will go enroll my H in a class right now.   OK, fine, I will tell him your story and see if *he* will be inspired to try out a class.

I watched an interview with Bessel van der Kolk where he talks about the benefits of martial arts training for childhood trauma.

You should try it too  

Just got invited into the women's group of the school I registered in! I should be able to roll with women next week. Seems like a great way to be part of a community too!

For some reason, I believe this will be more triggering for me than rolling with men. But we will see  

[Couscous]

For some reason, I believe this will be more triggering for me than rolling with men. But we will see  

Oooh, yes, that could get interesting. 

[Turkish]

Good for you! My kids took BJJ for a year before covid. My ex (4'11" and 115 lbs) joined to roll near the end as well.

My uBPDx and her BPD-ish sister whose son also took BJJ with our kids got into an issue with another mom whose non-enrolled son they said played too rough in the play area for little kids. I'm sure that my ex and my exSIL didn't communicate well even if they were right. The mom would smile at me. I was Switzerland.

I wasn't there at the time, but the sister of the other mom came to the dojo to kick her sister's ass, my ex told me. They all got talked to by the owner to knock it off and he wouldn't get involved. These were adult women and moms... I was embarrassed to return because people thought we were married.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Good for you! My kids took BJJ for a year before covid. My ex (4'11" and 115 lbs) joined to roll near the end as well.

My uBPDx and her BPD-ish sister whose son also took BJJ with our kids got into an issue with another mom whose non-enrolled son they said played too rough in the play area for little kids. I'm sure that my ex and my exSIL didn't communicate well even if they were right. The mom would smile at me. I was Switzerland.

I wasn't there at the time, but the sister of the other mom came to the dojo to kick her sister's ass, my ex told me. They all got talked to by the owner to knock it off and he wouldn't get involved. These were adult women and moms... I was embarrassed to return because people thought we were married.

That's interesting... Well, I guess if you are going to fight, might as well do it on the mat  

I was wondering about BJJ and pwBPD... Like.. trying to imagine my BPD mother with those combat skills and I got a bit scared. But something tells me they wouldn't be able to stick with it, because of the lack of continuity and discipline?

So far, people at my school seems very nice and polite.

That is still very strange... If anything, I would think doing any kind of martial art actually teach you to de-escalate fights, not to jump in it. You are prepared, but you also know someone else might be even more prepared than you, and you know your limits, so you stand strong but you are not "jacked" to fight, if that makes sense? Or it teaches to stay calm when discussions go awry, so you don't create a fight, and when it comes to it, the mentally of BJJ is not to hurt, but to defend/escape/control/submit. So I don't see the point in using it aggressively in a "street fight".

Most BJJ practicionners I watched and listened to all seem so calm. So far anyway, people at the school all seems very self-possessed.

I guess it depends how one approached martial arts, for me it is both physical and psychological. I hope to gain more control over myself, and to desensitize myself, to feel and monitor my own stress level better in situation of "aggression, to know when to leave and hold my boundaries better.

[Couscous]

Like.. trying to imagine my BPD mother with those combat skills and I got a bit scared.

So I woke up this morning feeling a bit scared at the thought of my H having combat skills. If he comes out of the freeze state, I fear that he will get in touch with a lifetime of repressed anger towards his mother, which he may then direct towards me.

Maybe I’ll suggest Aikido instead…

[Riv3rW0lf]

So I woke up this morning feeling a bit scared at the thought of my H having combat skills. If he comes out of the freeze state, I fear that he will get in touch with a lifetime of repressed anger towards his mother, which he may then direct towards me.

Maybe I’ll suggest Aikido instead…

That's funny... Not exactly how this works though

BJJ is a grappling martial arts, and it's mostly for self-defense, the main concept of it is to survive, not to attack. And I do think it would have the opposite effect : because one can fight on the mat, they become less reactive in real life.

But sure, he could do Tai Chi too   , it is just as useless to fight as Aikido, but a very mindful experience.

The interest of using BJJ IS the fighting part. You learn by grappling with someone else, starting on the very first day. You choke and you get choked, and you learn to remain calm under stress. The whole thing is about staying calm under threat, and keep thinking clearly despite the emotions, not about threatening. It's a "human chess" game, you need to remain in control.

I personally came to the conclusion that someone like my mother could never stick with it... It requires dealing with shame a lot, and confronting/owning the emotional states, the anger, the fear, that arises when you are stuck and powerless. I find it hard to believe that someone with BPD or NPD could stick with it long enough to get anywhere with it? I might be wrong though. But it seems unlikely.

[Couscous]

Actually, when coming out of the freeze/shutdown state, the sympathetic fight/flight response will get activated, which you can see on this chart: https://equusoma.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Polyvagal-Defense-Hierarchy-LEGAL.pdf

I just realized that if I learn BJJ myself then I could defend myself from my H if I ever needed to. 

Would judo have similar benefits as BJJ do you think?

[Riv3rW0lf]

Actually, when coming out of the freeze/shutdown state, the sympathetic fight/flight response will get activated, which you can see on this chart: https://equusoma.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Polyvagal-Defense-Hierarchy-LEGAL.pdf

I just realized that if I learn BJJ myself then I could defend myself from my H if I ever needed to.  

Would judo have similar benefits as BJJ do you think?

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with the fight/flight response that follows the freeze response?

Sure. But just watched a video Judo VS BJJ, and BJJ wins every single time.

For women, BJJ is especially useful too because you learn to fight with your hips and legs, the strongest parts of your body. The fight happens on the ground. The techniques are such that even a 120lbs woman could beat a 200lbs untrained man, and women can beat trained men their size because of the techniques.  

In the end, I think any martial arts work to reactivate a "lost" fight response though

I chose to go with the one discipline that offers the greatest advantages to women for self-defense.

It's interesting that you even think it possible that your H would want to fight/unleash on you? I am unsure if you are joking or not?

[Couscous]

It's interesting that you even think it possible that your H would want to fight/unleash on you? I am unsure if you are joking or not?

Not joking. Because he is so incredibly conflict avoidant, passive and self-effacing due to having been emasculated by his mother, I am concerned that if he gets in touch with his natural aggression he may not know how to control it. I have seen this side of him come out very occasionally, and only when the kids are acting out, and he really doesn’t know what to do with himself when he gets that way. He only stays in “fight” mode for a split second, and then he will literally flee, by running out of the house.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Not joking. Because he is so incredibly conflict avoidant, passive and self-effacing due to having been emasculated by his mother, I am concerned that if he gets in touch with his natural aggression he may not know how to control it. I have seen this side of him come out very occasionally, and only when the kids are acting out, and he really doesn’t know what to do with himself when he gets that way. He only stays in “fight” mode for a split second, and then he will literally flee, by running out of the house.

H "flies" too when he gets really angry, he goes away to calm himself down. He is very in touch with his fight response in general though, and he doesn't let me get away when I am being unfair and saying hurtful things, as small as they seem to me. The very fact that I can sparr with him is what makes us so solid together. Sparring is not always physical, just like not all threats are physical.

I am still unsure why you think him learning how to fight, and unlock his fight response, would lead to him being physically aggressive? One has nothing to do with the other... Martial art is first and foremost about control and being self-possessed enough to remain calm under pressure, and being able to CHOOSE our response, instead of defaulting to the only one we still have, i.e. freeze/flight for your H and I. Upholding a boundary can be a fight response. If you cannot do it, you can get pushed around, especially when flight/freeze fail to work.  

If anything, for someone as frozen as your H (from how you describe him), it would allow him to balance himself, and maybe hold his boundaries better, certainly with his mother, and yes with you as well, which can only be good for you too, in the end.

[Couscous]

H "flies" too when he gets really angry, he goes away to calm himself down. He is very in touch with his fight response in general though, and he doesn't let me get away when I am being unfair and saying hurtful things, as small as they seem to me. The very fact that I can sparr with him is what makes us so solid together. Sparring is not always physical, just like not all threats are physical.

I am still unsure why you think him learning how to fight, and unlock his fight response, would lead to him being physically aggressive? One has nothing to do with the other... Martial art is first and foremost about control and being self-possessed enough to remain calm under pressure, and being able to CHOOSE our response, instead of defaulting to the only one we still have, i.e. freeze/flight for your H and I. Upholding a boundary can be a fight response. If you cannot do it, you can get pushed around, especially when flight/freeze fail to work.  

If anything, for someone as frozen as your H (from how you describe him), it would allow him to balance himself, and maybe hold his boundaries better, certainly with his mother, and yes with you as well, which can only be good for you too, in the end.

I agree that it would be good for him, and if I take lessons too then I won’t be so worried that he might have a fight response and attack me physically.

I don’t have any rational reason to fear this, it’s just that he’s been keeping a lid on his aggression for all his life and there might be a LOT of it that could all come pouring out if he opens up the pandora’s box, so to speak.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I don’t have any rational reason to fear this, it’s just that he’s been keeping a lid on his aggression for all his life and there might be a LOT of it that could all come pouring out if he opens up the pandora’s box, so to speak.

I do need to push it a bit further...

This kind of unrationnal fear is rooted somewhere within YOU. I don't believe it actually has to do with him and how bottled up he is right now. It comes from you, and from YOUR perception of him and the relationship, and of how the relationship is working FOR YOU as it is...it might be worth diving deeper into to understand why you feel this way...

If anything, he is much more dangerous right now, bottled up, than he would be if he was balanced. Being this bottled up is much more dangerous for a loss of control than knowing our own limits and being able to stand for them.

So unless you are looking for an excuse to try it out yourself under the guise of protecting yourself from his aggression, I am intrigued as to why it is that you fear a backlash from him if/when he connects to his fight response.

Or it's like a balance of power than you'd like to keep?

When I read you, it makes me wonder if you actually trust him to handle himself?

[Couscous]

I totally agree that it’s more dangerous for him to be bottled up which is why I would actually really like him to get in touch with his healthy aggression by doing some kind of martial arts. I just would prefer that he not be able to kill me with his bare hands. 

I hate how passive he is and am very concerned about the way he bottles everything up, and worry that he will eventually snap and file for divorce, or die of a heart attack. A couple months ago we got into a real fight for the first time ever (or I should say, I tried to fight with him), and he just stared at me in silence. I asked him to please say something, anything, and he tells me that he cannot because he doesn’t want to say something stupid, to which I replied, “That’s fine! Then say something stupid!”, and he couldn’t. He said he just freezes up and can’t speak.

 

[Riv3rW0lf]

Couscous,

Yes, I get that. I've been with someone who acted similar to your H when I was in university.

I noticed you didn't answer my questions.

Do you trust him?

Do you "hold the power" of the relationship? Or is it equally held?

I might be wrong, but it sounds like he submitted his power to you. And you want him to stand up for himself more, but then... Part of you is reluctant that he actually does, and will also take it up a notch to "stay in power", to stay safe.

[Couscous]

Couscous,

Yes, I get that. I've been with someone who acted similar to your H when I was in university.

I noticed you didn't answer my questions.

Do you trust him?

Do you "hold the power" of the relationship? Or is it equally held?

I might be wrong, but it sounds like he submitted his power to you. And you want him to stand up for himself more, but then... Part of you is reluctant that he actually does, and will also take it up a notch to "stay in power", to stay safe.

It’s not that I don’t trust him to manage his anger; it’s that he doesn’t actually know how to manage it and has always relied on me to calm him down.

I do not believe that I hold power at all; I believe his mother does. He has submitted his power to her, and confuses me with her. What I really fear is that if comes out of his frozen state and gets in touch with his anger, instead of using that anger to draw boundaries with her, he will become overtly aggressive with me instead of passively aggressive, which would do nothing to improve our relationship.

Frankly, I’m not so sure that it actually makes sense for him to do jiu jitsu at all…

[Riv3rW0lf]

It’s not that I don’t trust him to manage his anger; it’s that he doesn’t actually know how to manage it and has always relied on me to calm him down.

Being frozen doesn't mean one does not experience anger. Most of the times, for me, anger was very well there but directed inward which was deeply unhealthy. If your H relies on YOU to calm him down, then this is also not very good for either of you.

Martial arts have actually been linked to a decrease in aggression levels and it improves anger management issues... It makes you more focused and release stress, and help you cope with emotions better.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274389216_Comparison_of_aggressiveness_levels_in_combat_sports_and_martial_arts_male_athletes_to_non-practising_peers

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/350761759_Effects_of_martial_arts_and_combat_sports_training_on_anger_and_aggression_A_systematic_review