Just when I thought it couldn’t get any worse…

[thankful person]

Our nearly 3 month old baby isn’t putting on enough weight and it looks like my wife will be ending the breast feeding journey very soon as her milk is drying up due to having to feed him other things. She exclusively breast fed our 2nd for six months and our first, almost, with a few formula bottles. Every time has been hugely difficult for her and she’s always taken it out on me.

Anyway I am seriously conflicted about the relationship still but feel stuck due to our three children under 4. My wife seems to hate me all the more, but says she needs me to the point where we are getting further into debt because I can’t work as much as I need to.

My wife’s issues with me are everything, she doesn’t feel desired, wanted, loved, or supported. She can’t tell me what she would like from me, only that I don’t make any effort. It seems she is criticising everything I do or say and everything I’ve done and said in the past.

We live together but are “not together” in my wife’s words, though we haven’t told our families any such thing. We don’t wear our wedding rings or sleep together. She has said, “I don’t ever want you to say you love me” because I’ve told her it too much in the past. And she has also said, “I don’t ever want you to hug me”. Because “it’s all about the physical with you…” She wants sex and she wants love (I think) but not affection. We don’t seem to find the time for sex either, I know the advice is to plan it but she wants it to be spontaneous.

I really feel I’m done with it. On the verge of saying, “no I’m not making an effort, you’re right. I give up and I don’t want to be with you. I don’t know what you want and I’m sick of being constantly criticised. Saying “I love you” and hugging my partner are basic things I want from a relationship. So yes it’s hard to show you I want you when I actually don’t.”

I’m finding it hard to see the bigger picture here. I know she is hurting and taking it out on me. It just doesn’t feel like things will ever change. But then we have been through this kind of thing before when our other children were tiny. If I think about it I have hope we can come through this too. (That’s one thing about me my wife gets irritated by, that I always have hope…)

I’ve been trying to take better care of myself, using nice skin care and hair care products. I try to keep in touch with my parents and video call them with the children. I listen to my music in the car. It’s harder for me to play my piano as we are so busy. I don’t know what else I can do for my own confidence and well-being.

I have no one to turn to and I’m still so thankful for you all. My children and dog are wonderful and my students but I feel so alone in the adult world. I just want a hug.

Is there anything I can do differently? Can you make a pwbpd feel supported etc if they’ve decided they don’t feel supported?

I have instinctively always felt it is not worth discussing my wife’s bpd diagnosis, and this has been confirmed on here as the general advice (unless the pwbpd is very self-aware and wanting to improve themselves…) My wife went through some dbt in 2014 to help with self harm and an eating disorder. She says she learnt mindfulness and that it did work. She believes she is recovered from bpd. Do they learn about splitting in dbt? I heard someone on here say their partner could recognise it in himself. I’m just exploring all avenues and it’s very tempting to talk about splitting and try and get my wife to see that actually I’m not such a terrible person as what her head is telling her.. But I know it just comes out as, “it’s all in your head…” and no one ever wants to hear that.

We look after our children together and I don’t even know what our custody arrangements would look like were we to split up, but of course my wife thinks she would get a large % of time with them. I don’t have much evidence of her treatment of me over the years, but she does have battery on her police record from when she was arrested in 2015. She had hit me and the neighbours called the police because of the noisy arguments. I didn’t press charges. I know I should keep records and tbh a large amount of incidents are recorded in this forum so I could make notes using that.

I’m thinking of you all. It gives me great comfort to read what everyone’s going through but I’m also so sad that all the best people seem to end up here struggling.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Notwendy]

I don't think it's possible to do something to change how a person thinks or feels. In fact, it may be that your ramping up your efforts to show your love for her are actually reinforcing her rejecting behavior. Consider that the more she tells you she doesn't feel loved, the more you do things to show her you love her. That seems to work for her so why would she have the incentive to stop. More likely she'd do more of it.

One idea that I have heard of is to aim for neutral. There is a push pull pattern to these relationships. She's pushing, you are pulling. You don't change to pushing as this is just going along with the same pattern. Aim for neutral- not reacting to either push or pull.

On the verge of saying, “no I’m not making an effort, you’re right. I give up and I don’t want to be with you.

So you don't do this because this is a push reaction. It might result in her pulling eventually which would feel good at the time but push-pull has both.

A neutral response validates her feelings while not emotionally reacting or validating the invalid.

When she says “I don’t ever want you to say you love me”

You reply " I understand that you don't want me to say that, and so I will comply with this wish" and you don't say it.

“I don’t ever want you to hug me”.  Same thing "I understand that you don't want to be hugged" and you don't hug her.

You remain supportive with the kids, pleasant and composed with her, but continue with your own self care. Stop the overly attentive gestures. They are reinforcing her behavior.

Now, it's possible she may "paint you white" again. While this may feel amazing, keep in mind that it doesn't mean all may stay this way. Of course, if she's acting loving and you want to be loving back, do that but still, you are the one who needs to stay steady emotionally while her emotions are all over the place- whether you two stay together or not. What you are doing is improving your own emotional regulation skills. She can be angry, sad, happy, whatever- those are her feelings, not yours.

[thankful person]

Thank you not Wendy, sound advice as always and I will try that, it makes a lot of sense about the push/pull. My wife is so convincing in her accusations that I’m making no effort, it does make me doubt myself.

[whycantitbecalm]

Thankful Person
I see so many similarities. I am 22 yrs into a marriage to my HwBPD our children are now teenagers and see it all too.

The most important thing. I learnt from joining this forum is that we cannot control our partners emotions. I believe we can stop it from escalating a little but whether i argue back or sit silently, it is as though my husband is following a script and just hurls untrue accusations at me regardless.

So the best advice has been to look after my own emotions. Protect them and so not allow myself to be sucked into the drama.

The next step is to decided whether you can live like that long term and whether you want your children to grow up listening to it. You can’t make your partner want to change.

If i mentions husbands BPD it just gets thrown back at me, like i’m trying to call him crazy. Even though i’m actually letting him know that i know he can’t control it.

It’s exhausting and sounds like you’re doing a good job of looking after yourself. Don’t lose contact with good friends Or give up things you love no matter how much drama it causes

Hope today has been a good one

[thankful person]

Why can’t it be calm, thank you. It really helps to hear others’ stories and perspectives, especially as many of us don’t have anywhere else to turn. Those of us who found bpd family are the lucky ones.

My wife sent me this text this evening:

“Here are seven signs from experts that a Carmel family law attorney believes mean a marriage might be over.
   1   Lack of Sexual Intimacy. ...
   2   Frequently Feeling Angry with Your Spouse. ...
   3   Dreading Spending Alone-Time Together. ...
   4   Lack of Respect. ...
   5   Lack of Trust. ...
   6   Disliking Your Spouse. ...
   7   Visions of the Future Do Not Include Your Spouse.”

I asked her which ones she thought affected us and she said 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. I texted back, “so you still like me and you have visions of the future including me?” And she said, “for now, yes”.

I said that I thought the sexual intimacy was the main problem but that it was surely not unusual with the 3 little ones to care for. I didn’t bother mentioning my usual points that I don’t sleep in the marital bed (I’m not welcome but also she has the baby in there), and I’m not ever allowed to be physically affectionate or even touch her in any way. I said that I did feel some of the other points but that was as a result of how she has been towards me recently. If I’m honest, I don’t respect or trust her in some ways, but I think that’s par for the course in a bpd relationship. I don’t feel she needs to know that. As I said in another post recently, I am willing to put up with her and work on our relationship if she would only see me as a decent person and stop the constant criticism. But I don’t know if she ever will.

The children are not badly exposed to it at the moment, my wife has her moments but it’s usually her frustration about the baby’s feeding at the moment. As the kids grow up I will certainly try to gauge how affected they are by everything that goes down. I often think about how peaceful it would be to live alone, but also about ripping the kids’ worlds apart and the devastation of that. But I know it could be for the best, it’s just hard to make peace with either scenario when I don’t know where things are headed.

I have also mentioned that we have a 4th embryo in storage from ivf. My wife at times talks about having this baby, even though it is a medical risk to her. Our relationship was fairly stable when she got pregnant with no 3. I hate to know that even if things became stable again then we would likely have all this again with child 4. It feels to us both like child 4 is part of our family, all our children were conceived the same day and they are very close. It’s certainly not a good time to talk about it but even today my wife mentioned it. She has been advised to wait 3 years before conceiving again but doesn’t want to and she’s admitted that it is related to the breast feeding coming to an end early.

[Notwendy]

I don't know if this plays a part, but the hormones after having a baby and during breast feeding can impact the interest in intimacy. Taking care of a little one and the sleep disruption can too.

When I was nursing an infant for much of the day or cuddling with kids much of the day, when they went to bed, I wanted to be left alone for a little bit. For my H, once the kids go to bed and it's just us, you know what was on his mind--yay, kids are in bed, lets...

And yes, he felt rejected, but it was not about him at all. It was that I need alone time to recharge but he felt rejected when I said that. I didn't intend for that. It was not a good situation for us to have different needs at the same time. I needed to have some time alone and he was assuming that as soon as the kids went to bed, I'd be interested...

Your wife may actually not be interested in intimacy at this time for reasons that have nothing to do with you. But she still needs to know you care and aren't rejecting her physically either. Maybe her way of dealing with this is to cut off affection all together. It's understandable that you feel hurt, but it may not have anything to do with you.

[LifewithEase]

Thankful Person,

So much of what you describe is similar to my experience, both the infant period and BPD marriage dynamics. I was getting the energy to write up some sound and shared advice but then read the always wonderful words of NotWendy - "what she says" including the intimacy.

There are so many emotional moving parts to BPD and so many complicated moving parts to early parenthood, you have much on your plate. Support your wife so she can care for the child. Support your self so you're the best father, now and the future.

A few random items that resonated with me:

- When my wife struggled with breast feeding she was very angry at me and spent thousands of dollars on support services. Her anxiety, shame and insecurity (for someone highly functional) tipped her towards rage and meanness. I didn't know what was up or down. Please, please be sure to find friends, family, neighbors, others that you can have conversations and perspective.

- The mean txt message #4 -  These veiled threats in txt are a regular thing with my uBPDw... she can't keep it together more than 12 hours without txting me something aggressive or dysregulated. I have to empathize with you on #4, the Lack of Respect... this comes up so much. But please know, the fact that you're on this board, that you're trying to find solutions should confirm that you're a caring and respectful person.

- The mean txt message #2 - As you might have learned from this board, a BPD being angry at you is such standard issue, do not be surprised. Easily agitated or anxiety that turns into meanness or rage is a hallmark. This is when you need to not JADE. You don't own her dysregulation.

- Sexual relations - this is a big subject that I don't think is discussed that much on the board but is important. I suspect my uBPDw withholds sex as a tool of anger, control but also it is deep rooted in shame. That said, again, NotWendy brings up something very important, postpartum is intense and challenging on many levels. It might be best to manage your expectations while she is dealing with sleep, nursing, etc. issues.

Keep sharing.