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Author Topic: Ex about to lose housing, asking me to let him in...after years of peace  (Read 791 times)
Mommeredith81
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« on: February 04, 2023, 03:08:30 PM »

Hi all. I'm sure many of you can relate to this. I've been divorced from exH for several years and it took a long time for things to calm down, for him stop with the harassing texts, showing up late to get the kids, being angry, etc. When we were married, he'd be ok for a while, we'd get along great, but then he'd have scary rages of a few days at a time, and be very controlling. After 1 scary weekend where he threatened to take the kids away and some yelling throughout an entire night, I knew it was the end. Eventually he wanted to come back, get therapy, etc., but I was too traumatized and knew there wasn't a real cure for what he was doing, although he got some therapy. So we got divorced. Over time, he's gotten and lost jobs, had and lost girlfriends, but finally became a decent co-parent. But I've never gotten complacent. I don't think he's ever been fully emotionally stable although he's matured as a parent. Anyway, after the last lost job, he's standing to lose his housing soon. He's in another state (nearby tho) and has been telling me he wants to stay with us some nights after he loses his apt. Obviously this is not going to work (especially for boundaries). My kids are still not teens and I've never really told them what happened. Living with the two of us divorced is really all they've known. I'm sure they'd love their dad to move in and there are times I question whether I made things more difficult in my life than they had to be, instead of sticking it out with him, but things were just too scary. Being a single parent is lonely, obviously. But I also love our calm life (kids &  me) together and sometimes things are so good I feel guilty. I find joy in small things with the kids. I don't want him to be without housing but I'm not sure how to respond when he tells me he has nowhere to go. I'm going to probably be the bad guy. My concerns are two things: 1) When he starts saying he has nowhere to go, how do I kindly say he can't stay here? 2) How can I keep my kids safe? I don't think he'll take them in the near future (he has the usual every other weekend + a dinner, but doesn't always take it), but he may say he wants to take them on a drive or something, and if he's homeless it'll make me nervous because he may not be in the best spirits. I wonder that his mental health won't be great. While he was in his current apt, he had relatives nearby and they'd all see the kids when they were with him. They've moved away recently and he kind of doesn't have anyone now, except us. Anyway thanks for listening and for your perspective. I used to come on these boards a lot when my kids were young, and I worry about them less now that they are aware of things and the situation with exH calmed down, but he's never been homeless before. (I may suggest that he go stay with relatives far away, as I know some would have him 'til he gets back on his feet, but he's going to say "I'll miss the kids" if I suggest that.)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2023, 06:22:14 PM by Mommeredith81 » Logged
ForeverDad
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« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2023, 04:22:31 PM »

Lets ponder that for a moment...

No, we're not married anymore, my life is my life and your life is your life, and let's stick to the order.  (Boundary time, you can't afford to be "nice", no Guilting yourself allowed)
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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2023, 09:53:20 PM »

In your house? Not unless remarrying him is a possibility in your mind; otherwise you're just going to get his and possibly the children's hopes up for no reason. I'd keep REALLY firmly to that.

Even if re-marriage were a possibility, moving in even for a week is a bad idea right now; surely you can be "the good guy" both to yourself and to him by helping him find cheap housing in your neighbourhood and letting him have some increased time with the kids at the playground or taking them to the museum, etc more often...without inviting him into your house. (ESPECIALLY if it's "your" house and was never "our" house)

Keep in mind that BPD typically gets better at people age, assuming he's not in his 20s anymore there's certainly strong precedent to suggest that he really is better than he once was.

But not "crashing on your sofa" good ;)
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2023, 10:09:02 PM »

Imagine going to court trying to get him evicted from your home.  It would get really messy in all sorts of ways.  Imagine the judge asking, "You've been divorced for years, why in the world is your ex in your home?"

My home... even though the kids are ours.

It's his life.  He's an adult.  You are not responsible for him or his life circumstances.  Court didn't order you to fix his continuing issues and problems, instead it set certain parenting orders in place and set you free from each other.

This not not about how to be "nice" or express yourself nicely though of course you want to be as tactful as possible... likely that would end up with you sabotaging yourself.  Fortunately you have the court outcome and court order that help you to defend your Boundaries.  When informing him, keep it simple and brief.  Anything more and he (or you) will maneuver you into feeling guilted and obligated.

BPD FOG ... Fear, Obligation, Guilt.
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2023, 03:24:44 PM »

Thanks.  Yes, ForeverDad, boundaries are important. And yeah, Pearls,  his BPD probably did get a bit better, but the prospect of 'remarriage' doesn't seem like something I can emotionally even begin to think about at the moment. My life is good now, although being a single mom is often hard. But I guess I need the best way to be tactful, as Forever Dad said. I've used "Let's stick  to the order" before, and that's a good one, but he's been improving enough lately that this could come back to  bite me so I might save that for when he wants to take the kids on a day that's not his. I can say "I don't think that's a good idea" but I'm not sure what else to say. I guess I can offer to keep my eyes open for cheap housing, but that's kind of a unicorn.
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« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2023, 03:43:49 PM »

BPD is a disorder most impacting to the close relationships.  With him at a distance you probably can't know whether he has truly improved enough not to relapse if he gets close to you again.
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2023, 11:22:33 AM »

My concerns are two things: 1) When he starts saying he has nowhere to go, how do I kindly say he can't stay here? 2) How can I keep my kids safe? I don't think he'll take them in the near future (he has the usual every other weekend + a dinner, but doesn't always take it), but he may say he wants to take them on a drive or something, and if he's homeless it'll make me nervous because he may not be in the best spirits. I wonder that his mental health won't be great. While he was in his current apt, he had relatives nearby and they'd all see the kids when they were with him. They've moved away recently and he kind of doesn't have anyone now, except us. Anyway thanks for listening and for your perspective. I used to come on these boards a lot when my kids were young, and I worry about them less now that they are aware of things and the situation with exH calmed down, but he's never been homeless before. (I may suggest that he go stay with relatives far away, as I know some would have him 'til he gets back on his feet, but he's going to say "I'll miss the kids" if I suggest that.)

My take on the answer to question 1 - you will have to be exceptionally tactful, definitely use the SET method of communication (Support, Empathy, Truth) when you do this.  As FD and others have said, you do need to maintain the boundary.  Please ruminate on the reason why you divorced him in the first place, and how calm it is now and you do not want to re-introduce the lack of calm.  If he loses his place, this can be a very major triggering event for him and you need to raise your guard to maximum levels.  If he has a car, he will learn to sleep in it, take showers at truck stops, visit food banks, etc.  There are books on being homeless, perhaps look at one of those and share tips when he asks you questions about shelter, food, etc.

My take on your 2nd question - Keeping your kids safe.  If they have a cell phone, tablet, install tracking software on it.  Android phones have this built-in Google's "Family Link" is the software you want installed, both android/iphone you can install "Life 360" which gives you real-time tracking with geofencing.  Do contact your divorce attorney on this, and ask him what your options are legally available to you in order to shift the custody arrangement if he becomes 'homeless'.  Also, using the SET method, gently suggest, you keep the children while he is sorting out his living arrangement.  Gently suggest that 'he needs to do what is in the best interest for the kids' and he can return to the previous custody arrangement once he has a new place - use the seed planting emotional tool on this one to make it seem like his idea.

I really like your last suggestion of him moving away to the relatives that have moved away.  However, don't push it too hard, and do what is best for you and your children.

Take Care.

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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2023, 11:30:44 AM »

My understanding of the legal implications you could face and I am not a lawyer, nor is it appropriate to give legal advice on this site, is that if you voluntarily let a person into your house, that the police will not remove him/her in many legal jurisdictions, and it takes considerable time and money for the person to be legally removed. You might consider paying for a one time consult with a lawyer to determine how to best protect yourself from your former husband setting foot in your home and not being able to get him easily removed.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2023, 11:37:04 AM by zachira » Logged

kells76
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2023, 01:35:34 PM »

Given that it sounds like you don't want to reconnect with him or remarry, it strikes me as confusing to the kids (at best) were you to let him live in the house. And as zachira mentions, there may be unintended legal consequences to that choice. Running it past a lawyer is wise, and you can also post free questions on legal sites such as avvo.com.

Looks like ForeverDad and I are on the same page, thinking this is related to your feelings of FOG (Fear, Obligation, and Guilt)? What do you think?

Maybe practicing a few more stock phrases (like you've done with "let's stick to the order"  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) ) here could help. While "I don't think that's a good idea" is a good start, it may open a door to argument and conflict, if he comes back with "Well I do think it's a good idea".

A different option could be something assertive followed by something you're willing to do:

"While that does not work for me, here is a brochure about affordable housing in Our Town"

"Sorry, that won't work. I'm willing to call your family for you."

"Even though I don't agree to do that, I'm confident you can find something on Craigslist."

or some mixture of the above.

In fact, to make it even more BIFF, you can keep it to the assertive statement, and then redirect the conversation to practical matters:

"Sorry, that doesn't work for me. I'll make sure the kids are ready at Time on Date for your time with them. Best, MM81"

Let him take responsibility for his own feelings and life trajectory. You're allowed to not feel his fear for him, and you're allowed not to try to fix his fears or problems for him.

Good to hear from you again;

kells76
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2023, 03:04:52 PM »

Just to clarify my previous post, it is my understanding and I could be wrong, that just letting someone come inside your house, not necessarily agreeing to let them spend the night, means that the police will not get involved in removing the person from the house in many jurisdictions.  
I know when renting vacation properties, how the rental contract is written, determines whether vacation renters can be immediately evicted if they overstay or if it has to go through the courts which can take many months.
 
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2023, 04:14:13 PM »

And the little things can trip you up in a moment and catch you off guard if not prepared:
"It's my weekend with the kids. Why can't I stay overnight that weekend?"
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Mommeredith81
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2023, 12:36:27 PM »

Thank you to everyone who responded. I'm almost positive I'm not going to allow him to sleep on the couch. I just have to find tactful words to use.

And yes, of course there's FOG.

Responses like "Look on Craigslist," while it may sound practical, it a bit insulting, and there's no real affordable housing near my town unless you wait years, so those kinds of statements would come off as cruel. I've actually dealt with family members who were homeless and most of the resources people suggest are actually just time wasters and make people feel even worse than before, because they don't pan out. He needs to find someone to stay with, but it can't be me. There are relatives who'd take him, but they're far away and he'll just say he wants to be near the kids.

He just had the kids, so part of my worry is that when it's  his weekend next time (like in 2 weeks) he'll ask for them. So yes, maybe I need to find a way to suggest that if he doesn't have a place to take them in town, he doesn't take them. We do have a parent coordinator so I am going to try to talk to that person first.

I wish his relatives acknowledged the extent of his illness so they would do more...they have done a lot, I'll say, but I don't think they realize how bad his illness can get. They probably just think he's depressed. I don't think they get it.
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« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2023, 03:13:42 PM »

Thanks for the clarification -- it definitely makes sense, then, to keep it ultra BIFF and not offer suggestions/advice, given the housing situation in your area. Probably healthier for you that way, too.

Your idea sounds wise -- you contact the PC, share what's going on, and abide by the PC's recommendation (which, fortunately, won't be: "you have to let him sleep in your house to have his overnights with the kids").

I guess now that I think about it more, there are really two issues mixed up:

One is his housing, and as he's an adult, that's his responsibility to figure out.

Two is if/how his housing impacts his parenting time. In a way, that is still his issue to figure out, yet if you talk to the PC  ahead of time and describe your concerns, you will have more solid info for how to deal with his weekend. It is a tricky area, as there is not a necessary legal relationship between having housing and being legally able to exercise the current parenting time schedule. That is to say -- being homeless does not invalidate a parenting plan (from what I've heard).

So, definitely ask the PC: "I'm concerned that he is going to have zero housing. What are the options on the table for when he has overnight parenting time? What is legal? Anything I need to do on my end?" I would have this conversation before suggesting to him that he doesn't take the kids overnight. That knowledge can help you balance safety concerns with legal concerns.

It might also help to start thinking through what you're willing to negotiate/trade, if you have a safety concern about him having the kids overnight with either no housing or sketchy housing. You may need to be OK with him having the kids more during the daytime in order to get your higher-value safety concern (that the kids aren't spending the night in an unsafe situation). Maybe there's a SET statement to him in there, if it comes to that (after talking to the PC): "You're our kids' dad, and that's an important role. It would be stressful to need safe housing at night and not have it. Until that happens for you, while the kids will sleep at my house, I'm willing to [let you have weekend days], [trade you Tuesdays and Thursdays after school until 7pm], [XYZ]". While it might not come to that, it could help you to "game out" ahead of time what you'd be willing to do to ensure your kids' safety at night, without it coming across as punitive.

Tricky situation, and stressful. I hope the PC conversation is really helpful!

...

One last question:

As far as you know, does he have a way to contact the PC (phone, email, etc)?
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kells76
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« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2023, 03:25:01 PM »

Another thought I'm adding on:

This may be a good question for a lawyer -- once it is known that he is for sure homeless, will you need to file to change the orders based on a significant change of circumstances?

Then, once the orders are changed to reflect that, you can follow the order and not be in violation of the old one.

If you're still in touch with your original lawyer, that could be a very good use of your time and money.

Doing a Google search on a phrase like "can a homeless parent have overnights" may help, especially reviewing results from free legal sites such as avvo.com.

Hopefully connecting with the PC and perhaps doing a quick consult with your L will help you have peace of mind that (a) your kids will be safe, and (b) you are legally covered in terms of the PP/custody order.
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« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2023, 07:27:01 PM »

Very happy to hear you're "almost positive" he won't be staying in your home, I think more than a few of us have been in that situation of letting a pathos-filled loved one move back in "just until I get back on my feet!"...never hear anyone say they're so happy they did it in hindsight.

I wish his relatives acknowledged the extent of his illness so they would do more...they have done a lot, I'll say, but I don't think they realize how bad his illness can get. They probably just think he's depressed. I don't think they get it.

Until marriage, my in-laws were all "Oh she just has a few problems, you know depression and stuff - difficult life and all, you know young people these days" - but when we hit our first speed-bump her parents were blunt that they wouldn't let her move back in with them - I'd married her, she was my problem now - they had their own lives to live and had spent enough decades shepherding her.

I suspect your ex's family might feel the same way deep down, they just don't show it to you.

You might need to send him a link to the $600/month room for rent in a shared home ALONG WITH an application for the local Burger King and local Taco Bell you've already filled out in his name and details :P I've done that sort of thing more than once to help the chronically helpless. It doesn't matter that you're not a guy, you're just handing it to the cashier to tuck behind the counter for when a manager comes in - so just mumble "it's for my son" or whatever...manager will never hear about who handed it in, just look at the sheet and give your ex a call with a job offer.

I respect that you're troubled by both trying not to hurt his feelings AND legitimately still wanting to be the good guy here. Too often we run into professionals and amateurs who say "Oh, you're with a BPD - I remember reading about that, it means you're a narcissistic abuser yourself". They don't seem to understand while it may be true in some cases, more typically it seems religion or personal conscience leads us to take the whole "helping those who society chronically scorns or despises" a little too seriously and we really WANT to still be nice and charitable even when they pick up a gun or a knife to threaten us. But sometimes we tolerate too much, we need to work on standing up for ourselves and re-investing our time in projects with a better return-on-investment for our charity.

"You got this", or whatever succinct closing words of encouragement are offered these days.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 07:32:32 PM by PearlsBefore » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2023, 10:37:03 PM »

Thanks. You are all very wise. Sadly, this wisdom comes from all of our experiences. ;)

Those are good suggestions for dealing with the situation, Kells and Pearls. Yes, this is definitely a "change of circumstance," and I have to remember that those are good words to use if necessary.

Actually it turns out that exH is willing to meet by phone with our PC, so I think we can at least discuss how to deal with things in the future. I think he's honestly scared, but doesn't seem to want to fight, so that's good news. I feel a little better knowing we can sort it out with the PC. This way I can get some clarity on what's happening too, because I'm not sure I know the whole truth. Maybe we can come up with something workable so he's able to stay on his feet. Thanks for being there.  
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« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2023, 10:47:59 AM »

Actually it turns out that exH is willing to meet by phone with our PC, so I think we can at least discuss how to deal with things in the future. I think he's honestly scared, but doesn't seem to want to fight, so that's good news. I feel a little better knowing we can sort it out with the PC. This way I can get some clarity on what's happening too, because I'm not sure I know the whole truth. Maybe we can come up with something workable so he's able to stay on his feet. Thanks for being there. 

Great resolution. Glad you guys have a PC you're both willing to work with. That'll keep things more neutral, which will be best for your kids.

Nice work finding a lower-conflict path forward  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2023, 10:57:01 AM »

We are expecting the PC to respect your decision not to host your ex in any way.  Beware of attempts to make each of you given in.  It's your house or apartment, your home.

It's good to get a satisfactory decision or agreement in writing.  Don't rely on verbal terms.  When the session is done, ask the PC to send a summary of the terms.  These days texts or emails are as good as written communications.  That way you have tangible guidelines in hand.
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« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2023, 02:04:27 PM »

Are we the same person or what? So, when I'm thinking through this advice, it's also advice and processing that I've gone through and given to myself. So, it sounds like, in some ways, he's still manipulating you into caretaking his needs. My STBXh does this ALL the time. It's taken a long time to separate caring about a person and caretaking. He is a grown adult. He is capable of taking care of himself. And even if he wasn't, it would not be your problem.

My STBX was harping and harping on how miserable he was and how he hated staying in a "sterile" apartment that wasn't his "home." He would hint at self harm all of the time. I used to worry that he was so depressed that he would do something to himself. Eventually, as I practiced avoiding taking on his feelings, I realized that I wasn't responsible for him. If he was going to do something like that, it wasn't my fault and I wasn't going to be the only thing that stopped him from doing it, and if I was that, then it was his choice to put that onto me, which was cruel.

I fully understand why there's still a need to feel responsible. They also condition us this way. We didn't get here overnight. But you didn't put him into the predicament he is in. You didn't make the choices he made to get there. You do not own the responsibility, nor is it unkind to say no.

That said, they are like "the camel in the tent" fable. You let them stick their head in and before you know it, they're propping up their feet on the coffee table, asking what's for dinner. I most definitely agree with consulting an attorney, since there are kids involved, but it's important that you stand firm and hold that boundary to protect your peace.
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« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2023, 09:26:38 PM »

Thanks, Witz (and Forever Dad). Very sensible advice. "It's taken a long time to separate caring about a person and caretaking." Yes.

Of course, I empathize with him, since he lost so much. Even when we were married I begged him to get help and to stop having these meltdowns, because he'd end up away from us...he did end up seeking help and admitting his problems, but it was of course after I separated from him. And I really don't see that he's come far enough, although things have gotten better over time.

PC of course didn't suggest couch-sleeping or anything like that. She actually suggested various social services to help him, but I find that generally unhelpful for someone who's capable (at least sometimes) of working. Turns out friends/family are going to help him with a place to stay for now. (There are other people who don't want him to be homeless, besides me. He's not totally alone.) Next concern is when he wants to take the kids again to the new  place, which not be as ideal (farther from me, etc...) but we can talk it out with the PC again first, too.

Thanks for being there. Because you've all "been there" often. ;)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2023, 07:58:28 PM by Mommeredith81 » Logged
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« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2023, 08:54:28 AM »

"Boundaries are a gift you give yourself."
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