Am I selfish for wondering when do I get to fall apart?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello all,

I feel really bad inside and want to just fall apart at times. My husband has the quiet subtype of BPD. I know he is suffering. He is not abusive, but he does self harm. I am emotionally over-drawn at this point. I have to hold it together to give the kids a stable parent. This is not their burden to bear at all.

I also have a narcissistic ex-husband (obviously I have issues of my own that need to be dealt with). We have joint custody of our 16yo daughter. I defend her and stand up for her because she is not in the place to.  I can effectively shut him down when I need to as a last resort, but it leaves me exhausted for a while. I've noticed this is when my husband will show me a new cut or new scratch. Its almost like being kicked when I'm down. Currently, I'm looking for a therapist for me that deals with at least some of these issues & that insurance will cover. Until then, what do I do? My normal coping mechanisms aren't working. Theres no one to talk to about any of this...help?

[UnrequitedLogic]

Hello all,

I feel really bad inside and want to just fall apart at times. My husband has the quiet subtype of BPD. I know he is suffering. He is not abusive, but he does self harm. I am emotionally over-drawn at this point. I have to hold it together to give the kids a stable parent. This is not their burden to bear at all.

I also have a narcissistic ex-husband (obviously I have issues of my own that need to be dealt with). We have joint custody of our 16yo daughter. I defend her and stand up for her because she is not in the place to.  I can effectively shut him down when I need to as a last resort, but it leaves me exhausted for a while. I've noticed this is when my husband will show me a new cut or new scratch. Its almost like being kicked when I'm down. Currently, I'm looking for a therapist for me that deals with at least some of these issues & that insurance will cover. Until then, what do I do? My normal coping mechanisms aren't working. Theres no one to talk to about any of this...help?

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[Rev]

Hello all,

I feel really bad inside and want to just fall apart at times. My husband has the quiet subtype of BPD. I know he is suffering. He is not abusive, but he does self harm. I am emotionally over-drawn at this point. I have to hold it together to give the kids a stable parent. This is not their burden to bear at all.

I also have a narcissistic ex-husband (obviously I have issues of my own that need to be dealt with). We have joint custody of our 16yo daughter. I defend her and stand up for her because she is not in the place to.  I can effectively shut him down when I need to as a last resort, but it leaves me exhausted for a while. I've noticed this is when my husband will show me a new cut or new scratch. Its almost like being kicked when I'm down. Currently, I'm looking for a therapist for me that deals with at least some of these issues & that insurance will cover. Until then, what do I do? My normal coping mechanisms aren't working. Theres no one to talk to about any of this...help?

Good morning!

And welcome.  These are really great questions  -  ones we all ask.

I'm going to.give some room for others to respond as well.

In the meantime - it might be helpful to know what coping mechanisms you are currently using and maybe, if you can, share what your intuition is telling you as to why that might be.

What do you think?

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

[UnrequitedLogic]

Thanks Rev for responding. It feels good just to be heard. I think a lot of my personal issues come from not being heard or understood as a child.

I usually cope by sorting my thoughts out while listening to my favorite music maybe while alone or taking a walk. I also like talking with someone that understands but I know no one close by that understands this & it's also a matter of my husband's privacy too. He is my best friend and usually the one I talk to, but because he is part of what I'm agonizing over,  I can't. I never know how what I say may affect him or make him do. Sometimes I write down my thoughts in a letter but don't give it to him,  it's my way of trying to get them out.

I try to keep busy by doing a hobby but then I feel bad because I have chores piling up. When none of these work, I go somewhere in private and have a good cry. Problem is, I now find my self doing this every day. I'm not able to sort my thoughts because they are going in every direction at once. A lot of guilt, shame, uncertainty.

My gut instinct indicates to me that when I have some sort of disaster that takes my attention, he needs to get it back. I feel really bad for thinking that and I can't assume that's why he does it. In trying to see where he's coming from, I wonder if maybe when he sees our 16yo and then me verbally abused, it hurts him too and maybe he has to get it out that way.

Thank you so much for your time in responding. I feel like it's me against the world but it helps to know someone else hears.

[Couscous]

While you’re waiting to get into therapy you could attend Al-Anon or CoDA meetings. These can sometimes be a better option than therapy for a lot of people since competent therapists can be hard to come by.

I think at age 16 your daughter is at a place where she can stand up to her father on her own, and if he is verbally abusive towards her she can pack her bags at head back to your place, or simply refuse to spend time with him.

[Rev]

Thanks Rev for responding. It feels good just to be heard. I think a lot of my personal issues come from not being heard or understood as a child.

I usually cope by sorting my thoughts out while listening to my favorite music maybe while alone or taking a walk. I also like talking with someone that understands but I know no one close by that understands this & it's also a matter of my husband's privacy too. He is my best friend and usually the one I talk to, but because he is part of what I'm agonizing over,  I can't. I never know how what I say may affect him or make him do. Sometimes I write down my thoughts in a letter but don't give it to him,  it's my way of trying to get them out.

I try to keep busy by doing a hobby but then I feel bad because I have chores piling up. When none of these work, I go somewhere in private and have a good cry. Problem is, I now find my self doing this every day. I'm not able to sort my thoughts because they are going in every direction at once. A lot of guilt, shame, uncertainty.

My gut instinct indicates to me that when I have some sort of disaster that takes my attention, he needs to get it back. I feel really bad for thinking that and I can't assume that's why he does it. In trying to see where he's coming from, I wonder if maybe when he sees our 16yo and then me verbally abused, it hurts him too and maybe he has to get it out that way.

Thank you so much for your time in responding. I feel like it's me against the world but it helps to know someone else hears.

Hi again,

First off - while not fun by any stretch, what you are suffering is normal in the sense what you describe here is part of the challenge. There is a real difference between being patient while someone in your life tries to improve themselves and trying to find the strength to endure a situation that does not change. Does this sound familiar?

Coping mechanisms, where there is no change to a situation, have a shelf life. That is because the brain will eventually make the association - in other words, the initial distraction no longer works because the brain makes a core association between the coping mechanism (hobbies / a good cry / etc) and the issue you are hoping to resolve. The brain associates the coping mechanism with the problems itself.  

You are right to be reaching out about this because your words suggest that you are at that point - to that end, COUSCOUS has made a really great suggestion. Talking to others will help you scope out your personal limits.

Also know that when coping mechanisms wear off and there is no change in sight, feelings of shame and guilt are almost inevitable. This is true of many situations - like family caregivers of a person in end of life care will often feel shame and guilt. It can feel like it comes out of nowhere and can be very confusing. Again, does this sound familiar?

My guess is that if this is happening, your feelings of shame and guilt may not be tied so much to anything you doing per se. All human beings carry shame and guilt as part of how our brains are made. Prolonged stress has this weird way of convincing us that we're doing something wrong - which many times leads us to shame and guilt.

In short - when we feel worn down, it just happens.  And therapy helps a person to put that in perspective.

I'll stop there.  Hope this helps. Thoughts?

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

[UnrequitedLogic]

Thank you for that, it has helped me more than you know. Actually, you probably do know... since reading I'm not the only one with those feelings it's made me feel a lot better. That makes sense about how the brain makes connections with how you'd normally cope and the emotions behind any kind of trauma. I had never thought of that before.

Thank you again for taking the time to respond. It means a lot to know others understand.

[UnrequitedLogic]

While you’re waiting to get into therapy you could attend Al-Anon or CoDA meetings. These can sometimes be a better option than therapy for a lot of people since competent therapists can be hard to come by.

I think at age 16 your daughter is at a place where she can stand up to her father on her own, and if he is verbally abusive towards her she can pack her bags at head back to your place, or simply refuse to spend time with him.

Thank you Couscous, that is definitely something to consider while waiting to speak with a therapist and I haven't thought of that either.

I absolutely agree with you, my 16 yo needs to start learning to stand up to her father. She actually did that for the first time a couple months ago, which led to a narcissistic explosion.

Then it takes a different kind of standing up that children and even some adults can't do. That's when I step in once he crosses that line. It takes a lot of pushing to get me there and I hate doing it. This makes me sound really bad, but the truth is, it's like psychological warfare. When someone with no conscience, no empathy, and who is completely self-absorbed won't back off, there's no reasoning with them. Afterwards
he licks his wounds for a while, backs off, & acts half-way human. He will never change, though.. it just gives peace for a while.

The laws here according to my lawyer, require a court order to change the custody agreement. She knows that's an option if she needs a way out, & maybe she soon will. I'm not going to pressure her either way because he does enough of that; that being said, if I hear of something that puts her in danger I will go to court. In the meantime, the best I can do is show her love for who she is and support her however I can. I have encouraged her to talk to her counselor at school, someone that can offer a completely unbiased opinion, or at least refer her to someone that can help.

[Couscous]

I have encouraged her to talk to her counselor at school, someone that can offer a completely unbiased opinion, or at least refer her to someone that can help.

Have you asked her if she’s willing to get into therapy?

[UnrequitedLogic]

Yes, and she is. I'm hoping to maybe find someone that specializes in teens affected by narcissists. When she goes for the weekend, he berates her for things such as, what she wears (she loves to wear black and rock band tshirts), if she has any zits, if she's missed shaving any hairs on her legs...things that seem trivial to me. He says it embarasses him in front of his friends. To someone her age I'm scared that can really affect self esteem.

[Rev]

Yes, and she is. I'm hoping to maybe find someone that specializes in teens affected by narcissists. When she goes for the weekend, he berates her for things such as, what she wears (she loves to wear black and rock band tshirts), if she has any zits, if she's missed shaving any hairs on her legs...things that seem trivial to me. He says it embarasses him in front of his friends. To someone her age I'm scared that can really affect self esteem.

Wow... just wanted to say I saw this. That's pretty tough.

You're a good mother.

Rev

[UnrequitedLogic]

Wow... just wanted to say I saw this. That's pretty tough.

You're a good mother.

Rev

I appreciate that. This is where the majority of my guilt comes from. I never should have married him & can't figure out why I didn't see anything wrong. I didn't know what a narcissist was at the time.  If I hadn't though, I wouldn't have my daughter; I would do it all over again for her. I just hate she has to deal with it. It rips my heart out every time she has to go because I don't know what hes going to bully her about this time. I feel pity for him. He doesn't know her or what a joy she is. Worst of all, he'll never even realize that.

I believe I attract people with personality disorders. Either that, or I am attracted to them...or both.

[Couscous]

I never should have married him & can't figure out why I didn't see anything wrong.

It might have been because you grew up in a narcissistic family system (doesn't necessarily mean that your parents are narcissists), or one of your parents was a functional alcoholic/codependent, emotionally immature, or had a physical or mental health problems. These are all things worth examining, either on your own or with a therapist, because it will allow you to stop blaming yourself. Self-blame expends a lot of energy.

[UnrequitedLogic]

Personal Message (Online)

It might have been because you grew up in a narcissistic family system (doesn't necessarily mean that your parents are narcissists), or one of your parents was a functional alcoholic/codependent, emotionally immature, or had a physical or mental health problems. These are all things worth examining, either on your own or with a therapist, because it will allow you to stop blaming yourself. Self-blame expends a lot of energy.

You are correct. My parents were strict, I didnt feel that I was allowed to speak up. I do believe they did the best they could though and my dad loves me. My mom was a good mother then. She had a rough childhood and I believe my grandmother was a narcissist.  She left my grandfather, my mom, and my 2 uncles for another man and my mom had to raise her brothers.

When i was in my 30s, my mom all of a sudden lost all empathy towards me & became emotionally absent. Only towards me, no one else. I don't have any idea what sparked it. My guess is shes starting to get some dementia which brings a lot of people back to their childhood. I honestly don't know why though. I do know it hurts really bad all the same. Yes, I'm in my 40s and still would love to have my mommy. This is the third facet of my current struggle that I will discuss with a therapist. She literally does blame me for everything. I guarantee if she knew my current husband that has BPD attempted suicide her first question to me would be, "what did you do to make him want to do that?"

I am thankful that she was fairly normal in my childhood although she did struggle with her own issues. I'd have a lot more problems had she been the way she is now to me back then.

[Couscous]

When i was in my 30s, my mom all of a sudden lost all empathy towards me & became emotionally absent. Only towards me, no one else. I don't have any idea what sparked it.

Did this happen to coincide with your getting married and/or having kids?

[UnrequitedLogic]

Personal Message (Online)

Did this happen to coincide with your getting married and/or having kids?

I have asked myself that very question. It seemed to be around the time my twins were born. After my 16 yo was born she was over at my house a lot helping and I thoroughly enjoyed her being there. That changed after them and she wasnt helpful at all, but rather more like another child that I needed to watch. About a year after that, I had what's called a silent stroke from having chronic hypertension since my 20s. I completely lost my short term memory for a while. I recovered over about 2 years although I'm not the same as I was before & never will be. It was at this time she went from not only being child-like but cruel.

My absolute biggest fear is that one day I might treat my kids like that, and I can't face it. I would rather have a massive stroke and go ahead and go than ever have my kids feel the way she has made me feel. I'm not a doctor and I don't know if she does have dementia.  I've just wanted to try to understand it from her perspective. I am her only child. To have this coming from my own mother, who is supposed to love me unconditionally as it's often put by society, makes me question myself. I often wonder if maybe some of the past relationships that were somewhat abusive, if they weren't right about me...if my own mother doesn't even love me. I do know my dad loves me, I've never questioned that.

I believe the best thing I can do is learn from my parents' mistakes and try not to repeat them with my kids. Truth be told I think every parent, no matter how well-intentioned, gives their kid some sort of trauma at some point. We are all human and no one is perfect. When the brain is malfunctioning, however, it takes it to a whole new level as sometimes you really have no idea what you are doing. That is what I'm terrified of.

[Manic Miner]

I appreciate that. This is where the majority of my guilt comes from. I never should have married him & can't figure out why I didn't see anything wrong. I didn't know what a narcissist was at the time.  If I hadn't though, I wouldn't have my daughter; I would do it all over again for her. I just hate she has to deal with it. It rips my heart out every time she has to go because I don't know what hes going to bully her about this time. I feel pity for him. He doesn't know her or what a joy she is. Worst of all, he'll never even realize that.

I believe I attract people with personality disorders. Either that, or I am attracted to them...or both.

Hold on there.

 I never should have married him | If I hadn't though, I wouldn't have my daughter

Correct. But this is big. I understand what you are saying and that it rips your heart because she has to deal with his behaviour. But don't be sorry for what you did when you did, because if you didn't you wouldn't have your daughter the way she is now. You'd have someone else, but not her.

By being aware of that, you'll relieve yourself from stress, anger, sadness or resentment and be grateful inside for what you have from that relationship - her.

[UnrequitedLogic]

Hold on there.

 I never should have married him | If I hadn't though, I wouldn't have my daughter

Correct. But this is big. I understand what you are saying and that it rips your heart because she has to deal with his behaviour. But don't be sorry for what you did when you did, because if you didn't you wouldn't have your daughter the way she is now. You'd have someone else, but not her.

By being aware of that, you'll relieve yourself from stress, anger, sadness or resentment and be grateful inside for what you have from that relationship - her.

That is very true, but easier said than done for me. My logical brain knows that. My feeling/emotional brain looks at what she is subjected to. It also listens to my parents ask why I married him, which doesn't help at all. I have just started therapy and that's one thing I hope to work on. Until then I do repeat that to myself, that I wouldn't have her. She is such a talented, beautiful and caring young lady. She truly cares about others, but is also a people pleaser.

Knowing that he takes advantage of her such as making her buy their lunch even though she doesn't have a job (I feel school is more important right now). He makes her take his dog out at 3 am so he doesn't have to get up and do it, then he takes off and goes to Vegas on weekends he knows he has her so she stays alone and tends to the dogs (which she loves animals, but still).

He then demands her to go on weekends that aren't his & accuses me of keeping his child from him. That does not work; what ever insult he hurls at me doesn't stick because I slammed the door emotionally on him the day the marriage counselor handed me a card for a good divorce lawyer and said there's no hope for him. I just hurt for her, so I guess in that respect it does affect me. I hold my ground and hopefully she'll get to that point.

When he is gone on a gambling trip may actually be better than when he is there. He berates her all weekend for various superficial things like being 16 and not having her license yet because all his friends' kids do; I know she's not quite ready to drive on her own, but she's getting there. What he's wanting is to not have to meet to pick her up for his weekend. He didnt give her a Christmas or birthday present (they are close to each other) since he says she has to get her license first before he'll give her anything.

I have found a therapist that is a narcissistic abuse survivor and helps teens become the same. She is to the point where she needs to start standing up to him and recently has done it for the first time. I believe the therapy will help her make the decisions she needs to. I won't make the decision to go to court for her because I don't want to put her in the middle, she has to make that decision. She is more than willing to go to therapy and I'm thankful for that. It makes me feel like shes getting there.

My current husband with BPD has been more of a father to her than my ex has ever been. His emotional problems are turned inwards, so the kids haven't seen much of it thankfully. I didn't even see it until his suicide attempt after 9 years of marriage, but I don't regret marrying him at all. He looks at her exactly as he looks at his biological children and is a good man, just internally tortured.

Almost the whole family is in or is gonna be in therapy. But that's ok. Until I can work through my guilt issues, Im going to keep reading your answer. It helps just to hear that. Thank you!

[Couscous]

It also listens to my parents ask why I married him, which doesn't help at all.

Oh boy. You gotta wonder what drives parents to pour salt into the wound and kick their children when they’re down… My assumption is that, on some level, they must feel like they are to blame for the situation, and as such, are compelled to deflect onto you the shame that they themselves are feeling. 

But here’s an article that you can send them about a phenomenon known as repetition compulsion next time they feel the need to pour salt into the wound. It should shut them up for good.

https://www.ppccfl.com/blog/the-two-most-toxic-patterns-in-relationships/

[UnrequitedLogic]

[But here’s an article that you can send them about a phenomenon known as repetition compulsion next time they feel the need to pour salt into the wound. It should shut them up for good.

https://www.ppccfl.com/blog/the-two-most-toxic-patterns-in-relationships//quote]

This is a really good article. I am sending it to my husband as well, because his trauma stems from something that wounded him in childhood. Thanks for sharing that!

[Couscous]

[But here’s an article that you can send them about a phenomenon known as repetition compulsion next time they feel the need to pour salt into the wound. It should shut them up for good.

https://www.ppccfl.com/blog/the-two-most-toxic-patterns-in-relationships//quote]

This is a really good article. I am sending it to my husband as well, because his trauma stems from something that wounded him in childhood. Thanks for sharing that!

Oops, I realize that I didn’t make it clear that I was being ironic about sending it to your parents, but if you’ve already sent it no biggie…and it may even do them some good! They might lash out, but if you’re prepared for that then it shouldn’t upset you too much.

[Manic Miner]

@UnrequitedLogic It's hard to see your child suffer any consequences of his actions and accusations. I get it. I'm not sure if you are able to talk to him or ask the authorities to press him a bit on that matter? Maybe that's a too drastic measure, I'm just curious.

But she is not living with him, so that's good. Soon she will be able to openly request what she wants or doesn't want from him. If she doesn't want to see him, she will be able to express it openly. Standing for herself is another very good option that will make her better and more sturdier person that will not accept BS of any kind.

Still, try not to feel bad of your relationship with that man, you do have your daughter from it. So tell yourself that every time you feel down. Also note that sometimes people change or just break. Some go astray, no personality disorder needed. Some kids have perfectly "fine" parents, no PDs of any kind, yet are totally dysfunctional, maybe even worse than your ex-husband.
You just need to accept it from within, forgive and move on.

As Couscous said, don't listen to your parents and their salty remarks, that can only hurt you and is totally worthless. Can't change a thing, dismiss.

[UnrequitedLogic]

No, I didn't because it wouldn't do my mom any good anyways. My dad hasn't said that in a while because when he did the last time, I asked if that means he regrets my now 16 yo being here because I don't.  He saw the logic in that & hasn't asked it since. My mom wouldn't see that logic.

My ex-husband is far worse now than when we split. When we first met he actually still had a heart, but as he has descended further into narcissism, there's nothing left in there now. At least it seems that way to me. I also take comfort in that -he wasn't always like he is now. I'm sure the signs were there and I was either too naive to see them or didnt want to.  It's almost like NPD is a progressive disorder. That, I don't know for sure. I actually only learned maybe 6 mos ago what NPD was when I stumbled upon a prominent world renowned psychologist that is a narc expert and does Youtube videos about it. Needless to say I had a huge lightbulb moment. I think the marriage counselor saw it. My ex had pretty much convinced me that everything wrong was because of me and wanted me to be fixed.

The counselor saw us separately and I was expecting to get ripped up one side and down the other when he met with me. I was amazed when he said this is a hopeless situation & it isn't my fault. I came out of there a different and stronger person.  I got through a really nasty divorce relatively unscathed; partly because of that & partly because admittedly, I am as stubborn as they come. My mischievous streak also helped too until I could finally get a court order to get him out of my house. I think that kept me sane and gave me some laughs.

I was thankful my daughter was too young to remember the divorce. As she has gotten older, he treats her worse and worse and that's where my guilt has gotten worse. Ive taken the blame for the many times he has asked her to go on some trip or adventure thats on my weekends. Ive always asked her if she did want to go and when she said no, I told him no just because it isn't his weekend. That way I would be the one to get the tongue lashing for it & it doesn't bother me. But now, she's too old for me to do it because he corners her and I know it's time for her to start taking a stand, it's just going to take her some time and counseling. The best I can do is love her for her and make sure that she too knows that how he is, is not her fault.

[Manic Miner]

NPD isn't progressive as long as there is a supply. If they can satisfy their thirst to be loved or admired, it will be the way it is. Surely, people change regardless of a PD as they age, so 'becoming worse' can be just 'becoming old'. Some old people become tame and nice, some grow to be grumpy and resentful.

The therapist on the YT, while really having a knowledge in NPD can make you sort of go mad about them, so caution there. She can be obsessive about narcissists, neglecting the fact that many of those traits interlink with BPDs as their root is the same. But in her take, it's almost like NPDs are evil and a PD of its own.
I'm talking about my own experience as my dad has some sort of NPD. Her talking helped initially, but at one point did more bad than good and made me almost paranoid. As always YMMV. But in my case, she "helped" me paint black my father, far more than necessary, far more than needed. It reached the point of hate, almost.

My therapist had a much more sensible approach, more reasonable and sane, that could benefit me to establish boundaries, as well as understand and have some relation with my father.

[UnrequitedLogic]

Manic Miner,

That is something to consider. No one chooses these disorders, either and that's also something to remember. I've only watched the one that told me what narcissism was and one on gray rocking which I've already been doing, even before I knew that. That's why I'm leaving it up to her therapist. I would love for her to have a good relationship with her father but if it's never going to happen, she can help her with that too. This one is out of my league and I know it. Like you said before, it's so very hard to see your child suffer.

Thank you everyone for your support and feedback. It's helped me so much before we both get established in therapy and I'm grateful!