Help with wife

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hi, I’m new to this and not sure how to start but thank you for listening whoever is out there.

I am in an extremely volatile marriage. I am constantly yelled at, called names, devalued, told I’m not good enough and being pressured into starting a family. I love my wife and I want to help and I want things to get better but I’m not ready for us to have a family when I am scared to come home every day. When she yells and curses and throws stuff and hits herself it scares the hell out of me and scares  our dog to the point of sometimes shaking.  I do not want to raise kids in that environment. But when I say I’m not ready or that I think we need time to work on us first she talks about how I am rejecting her and stopping her from having all of her dreams and threatens suicide and I will do anything to stop that from happening. So I have had unprotected sex that I am really not ok with.

She has also at  times threatened to lie to the police and say I hit her and that she will file lawsuits against my family.  I want to protect her, my family and myself and I don’t know how to do this. A crisis counselor recommended I reach out to this website after a couple  therapists have told me she likely has BPD.

I feel like this is slowly killing me day after day and I don’t know what to do. I just want her to be ok but I also want to be happy myself. I am miserable and I don’t know how to possibly get resolution or to make her happy without just sacrificing everything I want and need from life including my own sense of safety.

I’m not sure what I’m hoping for by posting this because I know there is no magic fix but I just need help.

Thank you.

[Falcon2437]

Hi, I’m new to this and not sure how to start but thank you for listening whoever is out there.

I am in an extremely volatile marriage. I am constantly yelled at, called names, devalued, told I’m not good enough and being pressured into starting a family. I love my wife and I want to help and I want things to get better but I’m not ready for us to have a family when I am scared to come home every day. When she yells and curses and throws stuff and hits herself it scares the hell out of me and scares  our dog to the point of sometimes shaking.  I do not want to raise kids in that environment. But when I say I’m not ready or that I think we need time to work on us first she talks about how I am rejecting her and stopping her from having all of her dreams and threatens suicide and I will do anything to stop that from happening. So I have had unprotected sex that I am really not ok with.

She has also at  times threatened to lie to the police and say I hit her and that she will file lawsuits against my family.  I want to protect her, my family and myself and I don’t know how to do this. A crisis counselor recommended I reach out to this website after a couple  therapists have told me she likely has BPD.

I feel like this is slowly killing me day after day and I don’t know what to do. I just want her to be ok but I also want to be happy myself. I am miserable and I don’t know how to possibly get resolution or to make her happy without just sacrificing everything I want and need from life including my own sense of safety.

I’m not sure what I’m hoping for by posting this because I know there is no magic fix but I just need help.

Thank you.

[kells76]

Hey Falcon2437, you're in the right place. We're definitely listening, and it's a good thing that you felt like you could open up a bit about what's really going on.

I agree with you, your marriage does sound extremely volatile. Can I ask, was it always this way, or was there a point where you can say "that's when it changed"? Have you been together for a while?

You're being wise to want things to stabilize and improve before having kids together. Sadly, bringing kids into a relationship where one partner has untreated BPD doesn't make things better. So, slowing that down as best you can makes sense. Yet it sounds like she is using intense pressure to get you to be intimate, when you're not OK with it?

I want to protect her, my family and myself and I don’t know how to do this.

We get it here. Nobody gets married hoping to have a volatile, unsafe marriage, and members here often want the best for their spouses wBPD (with BPD) -- of course you want her to get help, to get better, and not to hurt her.

One analogy that gets talked about is the airplane analogy: if the oxygen masks deploy, you have to put yours on first, before you can help anybody else with theirs.

So, as much as you want to protect her, if you don't take care of yourself and protect yourself, you won't be in a position to help anyone else.

Maybe that's a place to start -- you could let us know what your support system looks like and some ways you might be able to take care of yourself. For example, are there people in your family who you feel like you can trust and lean on? How about friends? Are you seeing a counselor right now, or if not, do you have some leads on someone you could see? Any hobbies or sports/activities you enjoy?

I'll wrap up there to give you a chance to write back. Really glad you're here, you're in good company -- this is definitely a group that "gets it".

-kells76

[SaltyDawg]

Welcome to the group.

I can personally attest that having children will make the dynamic much much worse.  So, please, please, please, follow your gut on this, and do not bring any children into this world with this kind of relationship dynamic.

I have two children with my uBPDw, one had severe anorexia nervosa to the point of being in the lethal range of BMI and required a several month hospital stay in order to recover. The other has oppositional defiance tendencies and has been in therapy for years. Both have other undiagnosed issues.  I feel that the major contributing factor to these other medical issues is my wife's undiagnosed borderline.

Lying to the police is very serious. I highly recommend getting yourself a recording device and start documenting your wife's behaviors, that way if and when she does lie to the police at least you have something to fall back on. If you have an Android cell phone, I've written up a piece on how to do this kind of recording. You can find it here at https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354091.msg13181755#msg13181755.

Also, i highly recommend reading the following book “Stop Walking on Eggshells” by Paul T. Mason and Randi Kreger [3rd Edition], page 17 has a list of 10 traits that are extremely serious and lying to the police as one of them. This book will also give you a pretty good idea with a good assessment what you're dealing with. Along with some tools that may help you out.

I will wrap this up, with my number one piece of advice, and that is to do 'self-care' - make sure it includes individual therapy, exercise outdoors [as simple as a walk], among other activities that you enjoy doing to recharge your spirit while going through this abuse.

Take Care.

[Falcon2437]

Thank you both so much for the time and thoughtful responses.

Kells, things were always bad but I didn't realize it. I looked at individual events and instances, tried to help fix, learn from and make them better and then put them out of my mind. There were also a lot of elaborate lies that change the course of my life and some friendships/family relationships but I didn't know they were lies for a long time.

I realized over the last six months just how often the yelling, cursing, threats to leave, etc really were and that's a huge part of what made me want to take a step back. Things also did escalate after we had a miscarriage and a few other medical problems. Obviously we were both crushed when that happened and that's when she really started taking things out on me on a daily basis. The occasional yelling became daily. Weekly name calling became multiple times a day. The generic divorce threats turned into specific I am leaving unless you make more money, have different friends, serve a restraining order to your sister. And for a long time I took it because I will never truly be able to understand how she feels and I want to support her. But at some point I have given up the oxygen mask. I have stopped living for myself and only exist to try to help her be happy. We were intimate earlier today because again she needed it and had talked about having no reason to live without it. Now here I am two hours later writing this post and during it she called to yell about how the painter she wants to do our house is an hour late so she's going to cancel and pay an extremely large amount of money for a different one when I told her I don't think we should be painting the house right now in the first place. She yells loud enough to where I have to leave my desk because co-workers can hear her through my phone and this is just not a way to live.

I do have some people in my life who I talk to about this. Family and friends both know to an extent, and I do have a counselor as well as a DV advocate and a group I talk to. The group especially has been extremely helpful and informative.


SaltyDawg (I understand why we don't use names but real weird typing that name and then a lot of really serious stuff )

Thank you for sharing, I can only imagine how difficult that is for you to talk about and to be dealing with. Can I ask (and please do not respond to anything you are not comfortable with) before you guys had kids how was your relationship with your wife. Was this already apparent, better, worse than it is now?

I have been recording conversations on my phone for a while because frankly I am terrified that at any given moment she is going to sue me, my family, try to get me fired or arrested for things that never happened. I am trying to protect myself as best as I can because I know that stuff is extremely serious but I'm definitely scared because frankly I can't prove a negative. I can prove that she has lied about many things. I do have a recording of her saying she'll hit herself then lie to the police but that was months ago. Just because she said it in the past doesn't mean she won't do it now and say she was threatening before but this one really happened. I'm candidly just very scared.

Thank you for the book recommendation, I am currently reading a book by the same author called "Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder" and it has been helpful but it is definitely scaring me because it does talk about how in court even blatant lies can sometimes come off as the truth from someone with BPD because of how deeply emotional they can get in telling the lie.

Thank you for the self-care recommendation as well, I am trying to make sure I do carve out some time for myself but it's definitely difficult.

As I wrap up what turned into an extremely long response I again just want to say thank you so much to both of you for hearing me and responding. SaltyDawg (still weird to write) I know I'm new to this group and not all that experienced but if you ever want to talk I am more than happy to listen too.

Thank you again.

[SaltyDawg]

SaltyDawg (I understand why we don't use names but real weird typing that name and then a lot of really serious stuff )

I was a merchant sailor by trade before I retired, hence, the nickname.  I am an 'old salt', and I am a dawg [slang term for 'dude you hang out with'] when it comes to sharing our stories.


Thank you for sharing, I can only imagine how difficult that is for you to talk about and to be dealing with. Can I ask (and please do not respond to anything you are not comfortable with) before you guys had kids how was your relationship with your wife. Was this already apparent, better, worse than it is now?

Initially it was difficult; however, writing it out, is therapeutic for me, and it is easier each time that I share.  The more I share, the better I feel about it, and it also makes me think about how to go about making it better, or what I really need to do.  This is a 'safe space' to 'overshare' and 'vent my frustrations,' I encourage you to do the same.

Short Version.
2 years, 5 months - Total love bombing by her, she was the perfect woman for me, and was hypersexual [wanted it all the time] did everything I could possibly want, and then some.  We were married after 2 years 4 months from our 1st date, had a 3 week honeymoon, and 2 weeks after the honeymoon ended... boom, first major incident, a suicide attempt, and a bid to manipulate me to become her work slave, I told her I was 'baited and switched' and she backed off.
The following 3 years, [5 years, 3 months from 1st date], was mostly good, another suicide attempt, followed by mostly love bombing and continued hypersexuality [a manifestation of fear of abandonment].
The moment we became pregnant when I went from her lover to the father of our unborn child - and all hell broke lose, she went cold turkey on sex, 7 times in the following decade versus every day.  Became increasingly abusive for the next decade, now that she was certain I would stick around because there were children [Obligation].  Also became physically violent until the daughter witnessed an incident, scared her straight for a decade on that, but it returned.  If you drill down on my

You can see my abuse at https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?action=profile;u=122151;sa=showPosts, I forgot to mention the repeated 'divorce threats', I'm sure I am missing more, but it gives you an idea of a similar amount of abuse, some it is several times per day, others are few and far between, and two are one time incidents. 


I have been recording conversations on my phone for a while because frankly I am terrified that at any given moment she is going to sue me, my family, try to get me fired or arrested for things that never happened. I am trying to protect myself as best as I can because I know that stuff is extremely serious but I'm definitely scared because frankly I can't prove a negative. I can prove that she has lied about many things. I do have a recording of her saying she'll hit herself then lie to the police but that was months ago. Just because she said it in the past doesn't mean she won't do it now and say she was threatening before but this one really happened. I'm candidly just very scared.

I bet that is super scary for you.  I have recordings of my wife saying similar things [false allegations of child abuse, 3 out of the 4 she listed are in front of mandated reporters, so easy to disprove, and the 4th one can be disproved too, just a little bit harder to do. 

Keep duplicate copies, in case she finds out, one on the cloud if you can too, especially the critical stuff.

I want you to ask yourself this question - is this something that you can live with for the next 20+ years if you have children together?  Think long and hard on that one please.  I can't make any decisions for you, but is this something you can tolerate?  Also, if there are children, then allegations of child abuse are likely -- a very cringeworthy thought, can you live with the threat of this?  Other than politely asking her to stop making these threats, is there anything else you can do?


Thank you for the book recommendation, I am currently reading a book by the same author called "Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder" and it has been helpful but it is definitely scaring me because it does talk about how in court even blatant lies can sometimes come off as the truth from someone with BPD because of how deeply emotional they can get in telling the lie.

The scary part that I have observed, is that these lies is that they actually believe they are telling the truth, and can pass a lie detector test as they believe their false narrative.  Pretty scary stuff.  Again, I am going to ask you, is this something you are willing to deal with for the next 20+ years if you have children?  If not, how will you go about changing it?


Thank you for the self-care recommendation as well, I am trying to make sure I do carve out some time for myself but it's definitely difficult.


I was slowly going nuts before I 'discovered' self-care.  Make time for yourself.

Take Care.

[Cat Familiar]

I’ll echo the others in saying that this volatility is not a healthy home to bring children into. As a daughter of a BPD mother, I’ve spent years (and tens of thousands of dollars in therapy) trying to unravel some of my own mental health challenges related to the *programming* I received as a child. A parent with mental illness will impart a lot of damaging/dysfunctional concepts to a child, who will readily accept everything as truth, since it comes from mommy. I don’t believe what I absorbed was meant to be harmful, as I do believe my mother loved me in her own weird way, but that is irrelevant to the damage it caused in my relationships with classmates, and later in romantic relationships.

If you spend much time on this board, you will read countless stories about people regretting having children with mentally ill partners, and horror stories about custody issues. So please, trust your instincts here.

[thankful person]

Hi Falcon2437 and welcome to this amazing community. I am a married lesbian with 3 young children who are biologically my wife’s. I related very much to lots of what you said. Our children are ivf conceived but I was pressured into it. I’m ashamed to admit this even though I totally adore them and wouldn’t be without them. My wife’s behaviour got much much worse with all the screeching and occasional violence and constant criticism and threats to leave, after our first was born. My wife had slowly become more and more controlling over every aspect of my life and the people I loved. It came to a head when my mother was in tears over not getting any photos of our baby. I decided to stand up for myself and my wife said our marriage was over. Well shortly after that I found this forum. Things started to improve so much with everything I learnt. By the time our third child arrived I thought I had things almost under control with how calm my wife was most of the time with only occasional absolutely crazy behaviour which did sometimes affect the children. Unfortunately the last few months have been very hellish again so I’m having to backtrack a bit just to keep the peace. I am hopeful for the future. My children seem so emotionally healthy but they are still so small. I do fear for their mental health and hope I can help them and that they won’t need therapy in the future. I am so proud of everything I have achieved in recent years but have no certainty that our marriage will last. I highly recommend the book “stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist”. It has also helped me so much to take better care of myself and it was very important to me to learn to stand up for myself and do things for myself to be a better role model. Even if your wife takes no responsibility for any problems, you can do much to improve your relationship, and it may even seem things are so much better that you decide it might be time for a baby. That’s definitely the right order to do it in, but to an extent my wife will never be totally stable and is unpredictable with this last long term split. I wish you all the best.

[Couscous]

I just want her to be ok

I would like to strongly encourage you to consciously choose to withhold your empathy for her. Perhaps you could experiment with trying to feel pity for her instead. You do not have the power to save her or make her happy. If she is ever going to get better then she will need to take responsibility for this herself. If withholding empathy from her this makes you feel like a bad person, I suggest you delve into that with your therapist. Wishing you all the best.

[Falcon2437]

Ok I have a lot of people to reply to and first I just want to thank all of you. I haven't responded right away but I have been reading all of these and I cannot explain to you how much it helps. Frankly I probably don't have to explain to you how much it helps because one way or the other unfortunately you all understand exactly the type of thing I am going through and trying to figure out the best way to handle. Thank you all.

Salty, I can't tell you how much some of what you are saying scares me. It isn't the exact same by any stretch (I doubt any two situations are) but there is a lot of that same stuff. She was the (mostly) perfect woman for the first 18 months on the surface. Candidly I'm not an extremely sexual guy but everything was hyperthoughtful. I truly believed she knew me better than I knew myself. So I overlooked the lying, the threats of leaving and the occasional yelling (most of which has gotten much worse after marriage). Now it is extremely Jeckyl and Hyde where if she feels I'm listening to her and letting her heal she is a completely different person than the one who screams, curses, throws stuff and threatens me. I am very scared that if we get pregnant that is the only version of her I will get. She now wants me to tell my parents (who aren't talking to her) that them cutting her out is part of why she wants to kill herself. I feel like this is just trying to test my boundaries and see how far I'll go against my family in terms of blaming them for how she feels. The truth is I wish my family wasn't cutting her out but they for damn sure aren't responsible for her feeling suicidal and they are putting up their own boundaries because of how she constantly makes them feel. Tangent aside ok thank you I think I am going to create a second email account and keep all of my records there. I can't do this for 20+ years. I don't think I can do it for 20+ days and sometimes I feel like I can't do 20+ hours. But I have no idea how to remove myself in a safe way for everyone and that scares the PLEASE READ out of me.


Cat Familiar, thank you for telling me about your mother and the years trying to unravel things after it. I cannot overstate how important it is to me to hear from you because I do often wonder what life would be like for our potential children. I totally understand where you say you believe your mother loved you in her own way and I do believe my wife loves me and would love our children but yeah that exact type of this is what I am worried about.

Thankful, Thank you for sharing everything about your experiences. You said that things improved after you found this forum, can I ask what exactly changed and how that was able to happen? I'm sorry to hear the last few months have been hellish again. As you talk about backtracking to keep the peace what does that mean to you? Because to me when things get to the absolute hell point I feel like the only way to keep her alive and move forward is to just give in to whatever she wants and obviously that is not healthy. Thank you for the book recommendation I will definitely look into that!

Couscous, Thank you for your comment. I know I can't save her. I think subconsciously I thought I could for a long time, but I know at this point I can't. I will definitely talk to my therapist about it because honestly I kinda feel like PLEASE READ if I withhold empathy from her and then she tells me how I'm emotionally braindead and unable to give her what she needs and I jsut wind up feeling worse about myself. I will definitely talk to my therapist about if there is a way to do that where I don't then feel like crap. Thank you again for your suggestion I truly appreciate it!

[Falcon2437]

So I know no one can tell me whether to stay or go and I'm not asking for that, but for anyone who has dealt with this before is there a safe way for me to leave? Any time I remotely broach even a couple days of separation she talks about suicide. She has threatened in the past going to my employer and trying to get me fired as well as hitting herself so she has bruises then telling the police I beat her. She has also threatened suing my family. At this point I feel I have to leave, at least for now while she hopefully gets help, but I worry that if I leave my best case scenario is my life (and my family's lives) is ruined by completely false allegations and the worst case scenario is she actually does hurt herself.

I have talked to a few lawyers, advocates at local domestic violence areas, two therapists and the police but no one has a way to really ensure everyone's safety. I know there is no magic fix, but I'm hoping if anyone would have a suggestion it would be people in this group. I am open to literally anything.

Thank you.

[kells76]

Hey Falcon2437, it's smart of you to think through possible scenarios if you were to end the relationship. Like you said, nobody can tell you "you should stay" or "you should go", so all of this is just food for thought as you ponder ways to safely leave. In fact, don't hesitate to post this question on the Conflicted/Divorce/Family Law board -- lots of members there have "been there done that" and have experience with DV, the legal system, threats, etc.

I think you are on to something when you say that

I have talked to a few lawyers, advocates at local domestic violence areas, two therapists and the police but no one has a way to really ensure everyone's safety.

And the reason for that is that those people are advocating for your safety -- you're a fairly reasonable person that is talking directly to them. They aren't working with your W and so any suggestions they have will by default be about your personal safety. The kind of professional who could maybe come up with a safe exit plan for not only you, but your W too, would have to be a professional working with both of you at the same time. I am guessing that you guys are not in marriage counseling together at the moment?

The other, less logistical, consideration about safety is this --

It is really sad that your W would threaten suicide. Nobody wants that for someone else.

Yet it is not something you can control.

You could leave "perfectly" and she could still make threats and she could still follow through.

You could even stay "perfectly", doing everything she wanted, and she could still make threats and she could still follow through.

Because her threats and urges to harm herself come from inside of herself, and are her feelings, there isn't anything you can do to manage or control those.

Yes, if you were to leave, after prioritizing yourself and your safety, you could certainly ask one of her family members or friends to check on her as you "pass the torch". Or, you could request a crisis team well-check. However, it just isn't the case that "you're the only one who can stop her from suicide" or "if you just do it right/perfectly, she'll be ok".

Hard stuff... what do you think?

...

As regards your family -- how much about your W's threats and behaviors have you told them?

What is she threatening to accuse them of, that would be so ruinous?

It's very possible to "get ahead" of that kind of stuff, so if you're OK with sharing a little more about your family's situation, I bet we can come up with some ideas.

...

And about your work -- I've had to share some stuff with my managers in the past, when it got to the level of impacting my productivity/schedule (i.e. pending court date with the kids' mom, needing to support the kids more, etc). Often, if we give our employer a heads up, they can actually be an ally. You could consider letting someone in security or HR know: "Hey, I may be going through a high-conflict separation soon, unfortunately. It's possible that people connected with that separation may try to contact the site here and make allegations about me, my character, and my criminal record. I just want you to know that if you have any questions about that, I'm an open book -- I just want things to stay safe here. Also, I plan to let you know as soon as there are any ROs or POs in play -- those would likely apply to my safety at work. Anything else you need to know from me?"

That would be a pretty normal way to give your employer a heads up about possibilities.

...

Finally, about the police -- same deal as with your employer. You can head to the local station before anything happens and let them know that you may be in a high-conflict separation soon, and your W has threatened to make false allegations of abuse to them. You can ask them if you need to file a report, or if there is anything you need to do to get your concern (and maybe address) on the record.

...

Keep the questions coming -- we're here for you, and are happy to support you any time you're feeling overwhelmed or unsure.

[thankful person]

Thankful, Thank you for sharing everything about your experiences. You said that things improved after you found this forum, can I ask what exactly changed and how that was able to happen? I'm sorry to hear the last few months have been hellish again. As you talk about backtracking to keep the peace what does that mean to you? Because to me when things get to the absolute hell point I feel like the only way to keep her alive and move forward is to just give in to whatever she wants and obviously that is not healthy. Thank you for the book recommendation I will definitely look into that!

Hi Falcon, I will try and answer your questions. My wife’s “recovery” (or rather improved behaviour) was very real but always felt too good to be true, but now sadly feels like a long forgotten memory. The weird thing is I know how much thinks improved and how happy I was, because I know I was on this forum everyday telling everyone to help give them hope. Honestly things still are improved. There is far less shrieking or even shouting which is a massive improvement and my wife is generally more respectful of me despite feeling that my behaviour in the relationship doesn’t live up to what she wants (not that she will tell me what that is). I have posted on here so so so much so if you wanted to look back on some of my previous posts, 2021 when I joined was my biggest learning curve. I’m annoyed because I remember when things turned a corner I posted a topic on this board called, “thinks I’m doing differently…” (it was supposed to be things but I don’t think I worked out how to change it). I can’t find it at the moment but I’ll try again later. From what I remember it was about looking after myself better and treating myself with respect, including walking away from my wife during certain shrieking episodes. Doing a million things I “wasn’t allowed to” which was so liberating and a huge source of happiness for me. Validate validate validate. I don’t even have to really say the words like “I understand you feel ignored if I say hello to the children before you” (for example). I’ve actually found it effective to pretty much say nothing but “mmm” whilst making eye contact and in my case this has solved many of our problems where I’m not JADEing and this my wife feels validated somehow. I gave up JADEing (almost…) that is we are advised don’t Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain. Life got much easier then. By backtracking I mean I am being a little more “controlled” (bullied here and there) because I don’t want to go through the shrieking stage again and I’m trying to protect the children. It’s a very fine line. I hope some of that helps a bit. I posted another topic which I think was, “don’t try to be reassuring”. Because being positive is invalidating when they’re feeling negative. But I learnt much of all this from the stop caretaking book and the amazing team of friends on here.

[Couscous]

I just happened to have watched this video by the Crappy Childhood Fairy earlier today that is on the very topic of navigating a breakup with a suicidal pwBPD: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UWKmWQXjYVE

She went through this herself and I think her advice is absolutely spot on.

[SaltyDawg]

Falcon,

Kells has done a wonderful job, so I won't duplicate what he has talked about.

However, as my uBPDw has attempted suicide 6 times and 2 ideations since the last attempt, I will share what 'works' in my situation, this has very little precedence in articles so I am providing a disclaimer this may not work for you.

First and foremost, I know you have talked to therapists; however, you have not mentioned if you have talked to HER therapist(s).  If not, this is your first step.  Loop them in, so they can have appropriate conversations with her.  If they refuse to talk to you, send an e-mail, this will serve two purposes the first being that it will allow her therapist to become aware of the situation, even if she is already aware, you are reinforcing the need to have this conversation with her.  A secondary reason to do this is to document her behaviors (with a date/time stamp) should an issue arise in the future with you which leads into my next point...

The next thing to do is cover your $$ with a document trail, e-mails, texts, recordings, snail mail, journaling [in a bound journal, in indelible ink, with dated/timed entries].  Only you can take care of yourself.  You should be your first priority, and hers secondary.  Come up with a recording scheme so you can document your wife's threats, so if and when they come to fruition you have documentation to share with the authorities on the crap she is putting you through.  I use my cell phone to record my wife's irrational behaviors including false threats of child abuse, domestic violence, etc.  If you have an android phone, I will point you to my system that I documented here back in October/November.

Of the 6 suicide attempts my wife has done before me, all of them, 100% of them, were apparently about 'control'.  She wanted to control my actions, in your case it may be about controlling you not to leave as that is the number one core issue is the 'fear of abandonment' for borderlines.  

If she has an instrument of death in her hand [in my case a 10" kitchen knife, or a 12" pair of old school all metal scissors fashioned into a dagger, deadly pills if overdosed, or a vehicle keys threatening to drive off a cliff] ring up your local emergency number for your area, in the US/CAN it is 911, other locations could be 999, 000, or some other number and wait for the emergency personnel to arrive to deal with your wife.  If you have a gun in your home, make sure it is secure in a safe [that she does not have the combination to], or ideally totally out of the home [with a trusted friend/relative], as it is a far greater chance she, or you will be the victim of that weapon at her hand than from an intruder.  Except for my wife's most recent attempt last year, I did not report any of them.  I was able to remove the instrument of death with almost no resistance from her hand(s), so I knew she did not want to actually kill herself, but to get attention so I would do something I didn't want to do.

From what you have written, you want to 'leave', and she wants you to 'stay' and she is persuading you to stay under duress with the threat of her commiting suicide.  Has she ever actually tried to commit suicide in front of you?  If yes, can you share the specifics?  If not, has she expressed how she might do it?  If yes, can you share those specifics?  If not, then ask her to see how far she has thought this out?  Can you share those specifics?  If she has not thought it through -- this is the best case for your scenario if she has done no planning at all.  You need to gauge how serious she is about following through her ideation.  Basically perform a 'threat assessment' on how serious she has thought this through.

In my particular case, last year, when my wife's most recent attempted suicide, she was attempting to manipulate me after I informed her that I would be doing less to fulfill her impossible demands [she wanted me to do ~30 hours of work per day, in addition to sleeping, eating, and doing stuff for our children] and I would be taking about 4 hours per weekday to do self-care on myself.  That prompted her to threaten to take a whole bottle of pills of her heart medication which would have killed her.  

The "Seed Planting Tool", my example...

After the most recent suicide episode, I reiterated my desire to do self care.  I talked about it the day after.   I waited a few days, I talked about it a little more.  Two weeks later, I started my self-care without announcing it.

Guess what happened with my wife?  Absolutely 'nothing'!  There was no drama, there was no reaction from my wife [not even a displeased face].  Keep in mind, I had also reported this behavior to our couple's therapists, and they worked with her on how to deal with the situation as well - so this may have been a factor in the 'non reaction' from my wife.
 
A few weeks later, my wife came to enjoy my self-care [riding an e-bike with a damaged knee on hilly/mountainous terrain] to run errands for her at the same time.  Nothing like a good old compromise to get things done.

There is no guaranteed safe way to leave.  However, you can take steps to reduce the chances of her following through with her threat of suicide.  

1. Notify her health professionals [therapist, psychiatrist, or even her general practitioner].  Document everything, let her know that you are documenting without being critical [very important to NOT do it in a 'critical way' where she may become defensive, use the SET communication method].

2. Do a 'threat assessment'.  After you do your 'threat assessment', proceed with telegraphing your eventual intentions [so they can mentally prepare for the outcome in their own way], reaffirm your boundaries, and then execute your plan after she has had sufficient time to process what you are about to do, that will reduce the chances of her following through on her threat.  Also share with her what you have done [one piece at a time, I find that my wife can only process one issue at a time, too many will overwhelm her] with regards to your plan, take your time every step of the way.  

3. Also remove quick ways to die [any weapons in the house].  Most over the counter medications if there is an OD it can be reversible, you can leave limited quantities.  However, if there is tylenol, remove that bottle, or leave only a few pills, leaving only 4x the maximum recommended single dosage as tylenol (acetaminophen) can be a deadly overdose much more so than aspirin or ibuprofen.  If you know she doesn't need a medication, remove it.  You want to make extra effort to kill herself, which buys her time, and time saves lives.

4. Perhaps test her resolve to follow through, by picking another less threatening action she has done to you, apply the seed planting tool, and observe her reaction to gauge how she would deal with the suicide threat.

5. Follow through with your intentions.  When you do execute your plan [leave with a friend so they can see she was alive and well when you left - you don't want her staging her suicide to look like a murder you did, notify the authorities, her friends, her therapist(s), put a GPS tracker on yourself, so if something does go terribly wrong [statistically about an 8% chance of that happening] you got yourself covered.

If possible, notify her best friend or family members so they can be there to comfort her when you leave and make sure she doesn't do anything crazy.  Pass the torch from yourself to one of 'her people'.

Please remember, you did not cause it, you cannot control it, and you cannot cure it.

www.margalistherapy.com/articles/borderline-and-narcissism-issues/handbook-for-dealing-with-a-bp-np/ is a good summary on what to do.  It has a risk assessment section and I am going to quote to you the following, "If your minister, good friend, son or daughter were witnessing what is going on, how would they interpret the situation?"

What would you do to advise you on how to handle the situation that you are in?

What you do is your decision.  Decisions have consequences, both good and bad - you need to do a cost/benefit analysis on this.  You need to live your life the way you need to, and only you can do what is best for yourself.

P. S.

So I know no one can tell me whether to stay or go and I'm not asking for that, but for anyone who has dealt with this before is there a safe way for me to leave?

If you ask that question in a different forum, you will get an answer [hint:  it is the 2nd portion of your statement that I have just highlighted].  This is also what I would do if I were in your shoes knowing what I know about the borderline.

[Falcon2437]

Couscous,

Thank you for the video, I just finished watching it and took some notes as I was watching.

What she says about midway through scares the crap out of me. She says that she was with someone with undiagnosed BPD who threated to hurt himself. Eventually she left and he did ultimately commit suicide. She seems to be very at peace with knowing that it was not her fault and that staying doesn't necessarily mean anything would have ended up differently and logically I know if my wife makes that choice it is NOT my choice or my decision but I don't know how I could ever move on, trust myself, trust anyone else or be remotely okay with that knowing that a woman who I still love deeply blamed me for killing herself.

I do think like she talked about 15ish minutes in that some of why everything has escalated so aggressively is because my wife can feel that I am thinking about stepping away.

Her talking about the price you pay is it shutting down your living, breathing spirit was really hard for me to listen to because that is how I feel. I feel every action I take, everything I do is to help my wife and I leave nothing for myself.

The idea of packing up all my necessary belongings and then talking to my wife on the way out seems like a good mix of pre-planning without just disappearing in the night which I don't think I could do. That is extremely helpful, thank you.


Salty/Thankful/Kells thank you for your responses too, I need to take a few steps away from this even if it's just for an hour because this is all very overwhelming but I truly truly appreciate your notes and will dive more into them soon.

[Falcon2437]

Kells,

Thank you for sending me that message board I was having a bit of trouble navigating the page (and finding my original post) and couldn't find something like that board. I will absolutely go through that page and maybe post there as well.

We are kindof in marriage counseling. It took a whole lot of work for me to get her to see one but now she doesn't want to go back.

Thank you for saying that about leaving or staying "perfectly" and it still not guaranteeing any outcome. I do know that logically and I know logically it is not in my control and not my fault, I just don't know how to make my emotional side understand that too because I would be lying if I said I don't blame myself at times.

I do think "passing the torch" is something I would need to do I'm just not entirely sure how to do it. Her mom is the person she is closest too but frankly her mom is scared of her and scared for her. At times I've had some really good conversations with her mom about things and at times she's told me "you have her life in your hands" or just try having a kid and the worst case scenario is a split where both parents love the kid. She wants the best for her daughter and I understand that but at times it means disregarding what is best for me. It also could be a problem because I have called the police six times during suicide threats and during a seventh both her mom and I talked to a crisis response team. They took her for a few hours to what they called a version of a mental emergency room. After that my wife filed some form of temporary restraining order (wouldn't tell me exactly what it is) against her mom, but then saw her two days later. So I'm a little scared that if her mom gets the torch my wife will just shut her out too.

My family has some idea of the threats but not necessarily the specifics. She's threatened a range of restraining orders to full-fledged lawsuits for "emotional trauma" and harassment. I would imagine none of it would be ruinous because they are in my opinion so clearly false. Part of what she is saying is that my family is "harassing" her when my parents have done the literal opposite. They feel she has lied to them and through their own therapist decided to put up their own boundary of not talking to my wife. Candidly I wish they wouldn't do that, I think it makes things harder for me, but it is their boundary, their choice and I can't change it. Either way I'm not sure how they could be sued for harassment when they don't speak to her. Over the last few months the only real communication between the two sides has been my wife sending texts that are quasi apologies and quasi testing the boundary and her leaving a voicemail telling my mom she should be ashamed of herself.

My HR and direct bosses do know at work and have been very supportive so far. Candidly I work in local news and I am very concerned that any restaining order or allegation of abuse (no matter how clearly false they are proven to be) would stop me from ever getting a different job if I wanted one. After all if I was a hiring manager and had 300 applications I would throw out my application without a second thought if those type of allegations were attached to my name.

I did go to the police station yesterday and told them this might be coming. They obviously do know some of our past histroy from all the times I have had to call them over to the house and she has been overly combative with them several times. I didn't ask if I should file a report, do you think I should go back and do that?


Thank you again!

[Falcon2437]

Thankful,

I appreciate you sharing so much. I have definitely noticed that at times when I overly validate and at times ignore things that she says that I know are straight up not true it has temporarily helped and calmed her. I'm sorry to hear it feels like a long-forgotten memory now but happy to see you say things are at least a little still improved! Hopefully it will get back to the "recovery" period.

It is interesting for me to see you talk about how walking away and treating yourself with respect helps because at times when things get bad I feel like I have to go into validate validate validate mode and just stop thinking about or worrying about what I need and just do everything I can to try to help her in that moment. I will definitely try to focus a bit more on myself and what I need. Thank you.

JADE seems like a really good idea and something similar to what we were told to try "non-defensive listening and understanding." When you gave up JADE did you find that it helped at all with her behavior? I have been a bit frustrated that when I started trying non-defensive listening it felt like she didn't change a thing and now there was no one standing up for me it was just a free for all of what she wants goes and what she says is the truth (no matter how much of a lie it is) and once that started happening I could feel myself not really being able to be truly non-defensive anymore.

Thank you again.

[thankful person]

Hi Falcon, yes I think the invalidating and JADEing were my worst mistakes before becoming bpd educated. My wife is generally much calmer when I follow these. There is also a useful tool called SET, which stands for Support, Empathy, Truth, where you make one statement of each. Some of this stuff seems a bit complicated, but in its simplest terms the Truth statement is my favourite because I get to make one JADE statement then I tell myself that’s it, you know arguing is only going to make things worse. Tbh I find it so much easier not to shout back because the children are nearly always around so I stay calm for them. The problem is my wife recently has been getting even more angry if I don’t react or seem angry or upset enough to her.

I have also been reflecting on the backtracking that I mentioned. Obviously everyone has different relationships and us non-bpds are equally responsible for the relationship dynamics. Many of us on here for years were making things worse without realising it and that was certainly me. Giving up the “caretaking” was absolutely key to my journey to improve things. The caretaking for us was several forms: giving up things and people I enjoyed because my wife didn’t like them. She told me not to play the piano even though I’m a professional. She’s said, “it’s not fair that you can play the piano and I can’t.” She didn’t want me working in schools as she was jealous before we had kids. There were other things that she didn’t exactly forbid, like me having more showers than her, but she was so difficult whining about it that I did what she wanted. Another example was we used to go ten pin bowling lots and I usually won. My wife often got in a mood if I kept winning and would say, “how can I enjoy this when you always win?” So I’m ashamed to say I purposefully and secretly became rubbish at bowling and she ended up winning most times. Funny story, today we took our kids for the first time and I came last not on purpose HA! I need to get better at it again because I’m never losing on purpose again, not even for the kids.

Another little example was last night she texted me whilst putting the kids to bed, “what are you doing?” I was browsing Quora which is an app where you answer questions and connect with other people. She doesn’t like me on there so I deleted it and for months I didn’t have it but then with a new phone it appeared and so I started using it again. But my notifications are off. Anyway, I responded to her text, “just browsing Pinterest” which is a mindless app where you don’t connect with anyone or discuss anything. So I told her a little white lie. And that is an example of caretaking. Manipulating circumstances or missing out information or not telling the truth, so as not to anger or upset the pwbpd. I became so so good at challenging myself to not protect my wife from harsh realities. It was so good for her. I let her face her own problems and realised how often I stepped in to say, “ooh let me do that, you might find it a bit stressful…” etc. The reason I am sharing these things is because I don’t know if that is in any way reflective of your situation or anyone reading this… But in my circumstances it made such a vast improvement to drop the caretaking.

[Couscous]

…at times she's told me "you have her life in your hands"

Oh my! That was messed up on so many levels and incredibly manipulative. I truly have no words… So now you have to contend with not only your wife blaming you for her choices, but her mother too.

I am so very sorry to hear that someone would be willing to stoop that low. But I guess the upside is that at least now you know that she is most certainly not your ally.

[Falcon2437]

Salty,

She hasn't had a therapist (who is real and not the one she lied to me about for a while) for much longer than one or two sessions and the current one I don't know who it is. I did talk to our couples counselor who definitely believes she has BPD.

I do have a lot of logs, journals, pictures and recordings that I am in the process of sharing to an additional email address. Through about six months of recordings they range from 30 seconds to a few hours and range from her saying she'll lie to the police about me hitting her to just her yelling and sometimes conversations that didn't turn aggressive at all. I think I need to do a better job organizing it all so that I know what is relevant and what isn't but candidly it is very difficult to listen back to some of the recordings.

Yeah I believe all of the attempts or threats to this point have been about control. She told me yesterday that I needed to tell my parents (who currently have a boundary of not talking to her) that them cutting her out is making her want to kill herself. I'm not really comfortable putting the blame on them like that. Of all the times we've talked the worst by far came when I went to see my family alone. While I was driving back she told me she was going to take pills. When I got home she was non-responsive in the locked bathroom. I busted the door open and she wasn't responding/seemed unconscious. When I tried putting my fingers in her mouth she started to somewhat be alert and fight it a little. By then the paramedics got there and I stayed out of the way. They left about a half hour later when she was more responsive and telling them she didn't want help and wouldn't try to hurt herself again. She told me later there were no pills, she watched a youtube video on how to knock yourself unconscious so that she could escape the pain for a few hours. I guess I will never know if that is true or not, but it sure seemed real and that's part of what scares me too is even if she isn't trying to kill herself and she's just trying to get my attention she easily could've done it accidentally there. All other threats have been when I've been with her and have ranged from generic I have nothing to live for I'm going to kill myself and it's your fault to more specific of trying to get to knives or a few times she's hit herself over the head until I've gotten there to stop her.

We do not have any guns the only real weapons we would have are kitchen knives. She went for those once and threatened to stab me (despite not having a knife at the time) if I didn't let her get to them. That day de-escalated once the police got there...eventually.

II think I answered most of your questions in the above sections but yeah most of the time she isn't extremely specific but some times it is.

Ok seed planting seems like a very solid way to proceed if we stay together. I hadn't heard of that before, thank you!

As far as removing quick ways to die I think I can limit the medication in one place for sure but how do I remove the kitchen knives? She will know exactly what I am doing and why I am doing it the second I do.

How do I turn a GPS tracker on myself? I kinda figured my phone does that anyway but I absolutely would want to do that if there is another step I need to take.

Thank you again Salty, I really appreciate all of your extremely well thought out help. It means a lot to me. Thank you.

[Falcon2437]

Couscous,

For what it's worth I really don't think my mother-in-law is trying to stoop or anything like that I just think she is terrified for her daughter and willing to say or do anything. You are right that because of it I probably can't look at her as a true ally but I do think at the end of the day she wants what's best for her daughter not necessarily to hurt me.


Thankful,

Thank you for sharing, yeah that is pretty reflective of my situation. Reflective enough to where we actually went bowling on one of our earlier dates, I won by a lot and we went about four more years before we went again and that only happened when she was trying to keep me happy because she could tell I clearly wasn't. So when you dropped the caretaking type stuff I see that it made things better and when it comes to the things I step in and try to take her problems/stresses away I totally get that and I think if we stay together I can try to do that. But when it comes to lies, even white lies, about what you are doing or hiding things that you want to do like play the piano how do you feel when you do that? I have always been honest to a fault and never really great at white lies, I tend to feel a lot of guilt and shame on my own (before the relationship too) and lying makes that feel worse even if it is a minor thing.

Thank you again for responding.

[Couscous]

She told me yesterday that I needed to tell my parents (who currently have a boundary of not talking to her) that them cutting her out is making her want to kill herself. I'm not really comfortable putting the blame on them like that.

That’s good that you’re not willing to put the blame on your parents, because they are not actually the cause of your wife’s feelings. It’s a common misconception, but a person cannot cause another person to feel an emotion. While they may do something that stimulates an emotional reaction in another person, it is that other person’s thoughts and beliefs that generates the emotion.

What I’m noticing is that even by staying with your wife you aren’t actually succeeding in preventing her from making attempts. The bottom line is that no matter what your relationship status is, if she does succeed you, will feel guilty.

As for her mother, while I’m sure she’s not intentionally trying to hurt you, what she said was still manipulative and self-serving,  not to mention completely untrue. Your wife’s life is in nobody’s hands but her own.

I certainly hope you will find a way to convince your wife to get into some kind of inpatient treatment program. BPD is very amenable to treatment, and it can go into remission.

I wish you much strength and courage as you navigate this very challenging situation.

[thankful person]

But when it comes to lies, even white lies, about what you are doing or hiding things that you want to do like play the piano how do you feel when you do that? I have always been honest to a fault and never really great at white lies, I tend to feel a lot of guilt and shame on my own (before the relationship too) and lying makes that feel worse even if it is a minor thing.
.

Hi Falcon, yes I’m also a very honest person at heart, which is why I didn’t used to do anything behind my wife’s back, we were so enmeshed I didn’t get the chance really anyway, especially now we have 3 young children, I go out to work but she is nearly always at home. So when I was working through dropping the caretaking I realised, I can go on Quora and I don’t have to tell her… but then occasionally she saw me on there or asked and I’d tell her the truth…  and at that time she coped with it. It is openly  on my home screen but I’ve never had the notifications on, it’s definitely something I want to work towards.

One day last year when my wife was ranting about something I excused myself and said, “I’m going to have a shower” and she said, “I know you will. You always do what you want!” And I was so proud that this was now her opinion of me, even though it was by no means true.

I hated myself for many years because I left my ex of 14 years for my wife and I hurt him so badly, I wasn’t even sure that’s what I wanted but my wife already had so much control over me, believe it or not she was on the other side of the planet (in my home country I had left) and we met online! (That’s why she hates me talking to strangers online). Anyway I felt I could never be happy after what I did to my ex and that I didn’t deserve happiness. The good people on here also helped me to realise that I was also a kind of caretaker for my ex, which is why I felt so responsible even 7 years later.

The reason I am here on the forum so much is because I have not slept in the marital bed with my wife (for any length of time) over the past few years, partly because she’s had all our babies in the bed but now just the littlest one. I hated that with the dangers attached, but the children all seem so confident and secure (amazingly considering the shouting they endure at times). I do think the bed-sharing has helped them (I am a childcare professional so I’ve been surprised how secure they are, spending most of their first years at the breast and with mother, unlike the children I work with). Anyway I digress. What I’m trying to say is, my membership of bpd family has made such an incredible difference to my life and I think for it to be truly effective, people don’t tend to stick around here long if they are sharing the info about this site with the pwbpd (of course some people feel they have to share everything). At first I hated going behind her back, but it has helped me so much, and in turn her, and our children… it will always be behind her back so I’ve had to come to terms with that. I’m still getting support here and if I can help others then I want to.

Our littlest is nearly 4 months and I’m hoping things will change here soon re. my wife seeing me through her “black glasses”. Maybe she’s already changing (but wouldn’t admit it yet). I certainly don’t want to be lying about going on Quora or anything other than not telling her about bpd family. I’m trying to get back to where we were. I will win at bowling next time haha though it’s harder and distracting when you’re supervising young children that’s my excuse anyway!

[SaltyDawg]

Falcon,

   I am going to be straight up with you, your situation is quite severe, and I feel that you are handling it exceptionally well given the circumstances that you have described.  However, I feel that you should shift your line of thinking from a 'safe' exit strategy to one of 'damage control' as I personally can see no 'safe' way of extracting yourself from this situation - if anyone does see a safe way, please speak up.  The question now becomes, how do you get yourself out of this 'pickle' with the least amount of damage?

   The advice I gave earlier that I did for my wife, after doing some more thinking on it, since your wife has actually become non-responsive to her actions requiring medical intervention during a suicide attempt, I advise not to use some of the things I have found helpful to me, as your wife appears much more intent on ending her life than mine ever was.

   I know you are already following these, but call 911 if she is in the act [you have already done this], or if she is thinking about it call 988 in addition to the protocols that this site has setup for suicide:  https://bpdfamily.com/discussions/search-info3.htm

   It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and you are dotting all of your i's and crossing all of your t's.  One tip for documenting recordings, I rename the filename to whatever she is doing "e.g. suicide attempt, false allegation of ____, etc." shortly after the event transpired (going to the bathroom is a good place to do this), it is easy to forget with the incredible 'mind f**k' she is doing to your psyche.  Working in 'news,' I am sure you have seen your fair share of severe stories, and you have availed yourself to a lot of resources before coming here.  From the sound of things, you have yourself pretty well covered from a 'logical mind perspective'.  I would suggest drawing even more from your news background on documenting everything, and learning from others who have stories done on them on what was useful, and what was not, and utilizing sources that news organizations use [I am thinking the legal & hospital resources].

I come from a homeland security background and have had limited law enforcement training; I too draw off of my background for giving advice which is more technical/logical in nature than emotional - this is my set of strengths.  In my job, I was required to think outside of the box quite frequently, and I have been brainstorming your situation for several hours as I might have to do something similar in the not so distant future.  I have come face to face with terrorists brandishing machine guns and I can personally vouch that confronting terrorists is a lot LESS stressful than dealing with a borderline wife - your current situation is a bit more severe than mine ever was, I can only imagine the emotions that are going through your mind.  I personally cannot see a safe way of leaving; hence, my suggestion is to do a planned damage control scenario instead.

Reviewing the components of your borderline puzzle - please correct me if my perception is incorrect:
+ You have an individual therapist - talk to your therapist about this, and the best way on how to leave - if they balk at discussing this, ask to see their supervisor.  My previous individual T recognized he was 'in' above his head [with a PhD in psychology] and got his supervisor to deal with the situation as he couldn't handle my situation with my wife.
+ You have a couple's therapist, your wife has attended once or twice, but no longer does - go to couple's therapy without your wife, and ask the same question on how to handle this.
+ She says she has an individual therapist but doesn't see them, nor do you know who he/she is.  Ask her for the name of this therapist, and notify them of the situation if and when you obtain this information.  Unlikely from the sound of things, but follow this avenue if you can.
+ She has a psychiatrist(s) that is helping her - does she have a future appointment?  If yes, notify them of the situation.  If not, still notify them of the situation.  Obtain their advice.
+ You have rung up 911 one or more times to rescue her from attempted suicide or self-harm behaviors.  How many times?  How frequent?  Does your location support Smart911?  If so, fill out a profile at smart911.com, and get the app, listing all previous emergency calls to linked to your home phone, cell phone, and her cell phone too, that way the dispatcher will know in advance how to best handle the call.  Visit/talk to the emergency call center as they will be the ones handling the situation if it gets out of control.  Also learn and put in a speed dial to the non-emergency number to the communication's center [they will tell you if asked, but they will not volunteer this information as they want you to use 911], this will eliminate one step that the local 911 operator will have to do if you are in a different jurisdiction when your wife is having the emergency.  Every second counts when they are responding to this kind of emergency.
+ She has been institutionalized one or more times.  If so, avail yourself of the institution's resources.  Have you contacted the institution of her behaviors since discharge and seek out their recommendation(s)?  If not, this is a very good place to find help.  They can also possibly advise you on how to get her back into the institution.
+ Does she currently hold a job?  Most severe pwBPD [persons with BPD], cannot.  Know her schedule, so you can do your planning/preparing when she is not aware.
+ Your parents have estranged her, I am assuming she has mentioned suicide to them as the reason why, or is it some other reason?  What have your parents recommended you do with her?
+ Your MIL, is looking out for the best interests of her daughter, perhaps at your expense.  After you, your MIL is the next closest person in your wife's life.  You will likely need to involve her at some point in time if and when you actually leave.  Don't discuss your plan with her until you are in the process of moving out.
+  Your 'logical mind' tells you to run - I know how this feels, I feel trapped by my wife.
+  Your 'emotional mind' tells you to stay and be compassionate with empathy and to protect your wife at the expense of consuming you emotionally - I know how this feels, I am 'trapped' there now.
+   Your 'wise mind' is torn between staying and leaving, and is stuck on how to do this without causing damage, to do it 'safely' as you put it.  I have a different set of circumstances, a lot more manageable than your situation, but I still have the same feeling and can empathize greatly with your situation.

Speaking of "Wise Mind" it is a DBT skill, you can read up on it here, click the "tools" from the menu above and the first item listed is "wise mind", I recommend using 'wise mind' on figuring out how you are going to get out of this situation with the least amount of damage to yourself first priority, and a secondary priority to your wife.

With regards to the video of the woman talking about a guy committing suicide you commented on and how it scares you - it does happen, it is a very real possibility, after reading a recent posting on it, I too am very afraid for my wife, just as you are afraid for your wife.  It is so scary, whenever I personally think of this possibility it torments me to the point of tears - and I am a big burly sailor.

is advised before reading this link (Trigger Warning:  Suicide)
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354928.0

This is my thought process on this if I were in your shoes and may actually do this or something similar for my own scenario - this is not advice, but I put it out here for your consideration on how you might want to proceed, as this is what I am considering for myself.

1.  Contact and retain, an attorney that deals with 'high conflict' divorces, share your entire story with this attorney.  Do your homework for 'high conflict' attorneys, use your news resources at the courthouse for who has the best reputation, even if they are expensive, it will be well worth your investment.  Your video/recording will come in handy, have key examples of each type of behavior ready to share with this attorney.  Note:  be aware of wire tapping laws, so if you have a recording of her taunting you to record her [I do] this will put you in the clear.  Even if you don't, you can use the 'public safety exemption' which is found in most jurisdictions.


2.  Get all of your affairs in order, or as much as you can.  

Learn her routine when she will be outside of the home, figure out a period when you can pack-up and leave with your essentials, and to remove anything that could kill her quickly if she were to attempt suicide.  Obtain a place to stay, have it pre-arranged, preferably as far away as you can [opposite side of your work place by many miles].  Get the divorce papers ready, secure all of your important documents and keep them on your person or in your car [that you do not share].  Get copies of all joint accounts, hers too if she has any, etc. etc. etc.  Your attorney can guide you on this.


3.  Pass the care 'torch' to an unwilling recipient while minimizing chances of her commiting suicide as ethically as you can.

Plan A - File for divorce if she is in an institution, that way the institution can manage her behaviors if they become suicidal, you are in effect passing the torch to the institution, and she is 'their problem now' and they are best equipped to handle the situation.  However, if you cannot get her in an institution, then, you will have to dump her on her mother who knows what is going on and doesn't want to deal with it - I know that this is really low on your part and you will feel like crap; however, after you she has her daughter's best interest at heart - a mother's love (even if it is dysfunctional).

Plan B - File for divorce if she is out of the home for several hours, as soon as all of your stuff is packed and you are driving away, call her mom, and tell her what you are doing, and why you are doing it - don't let her talk you out of it, you may want to do a text and then block her if you think this will be an issue.  Coordinate her being served with her papers in a very public place, like her work where there will be less of a chance for her to create a scene and commit suicide - communicate this with her mom.

In either event, make sure you stay far away as you can [document your location at all times].  Also obtain restraining orders against her if possible.


4.  Damage Control - I know you worry about your professional reputation, consult with your attorney on how to best defend yourself on this.  Do a pre-emptive strike by posting on your social media, that you just filed for divorce, and your wife is irrational and may say some 'untrue' things in retaliation - while this won't stop her from doing this, it will temper what others think of you when she does this - kind of like the 'seed planting tool' to stop the worst of it.  Also express, that you care deeply for her; however, you cannot live with her, and wish her the best.  That way if she does 'go off' on you, you will be perceived as taking the high road, and her the low road.  You may want to consider blocking her from posting to your online profiles at the time the papers are being served.  I know you might be tempted to plaster all of her wrong doings on-line - don't do it as that will negatively affect your image.  Chalk it up to a 'vindictive wife', even if in the short term it will be an issue.  Let your attorney deal with the libel/slander aspect of this, if she can be disproven and he can do 'take-down' orders of any untrue statements.  You are NOT the only divorced person applying for jobs, about half of the people are.

Use a GPS tracker on yourself, so you can prove that you are not harassing her or worse, I personally don't use one right now, other than Google Timeline, which is chock full of errors.  Friends of mine use Life360 [android/iphone] with their children.  They have a free 2-day plan, and a paid plan for 30 days [do screen shots of your locations], there are other apps out there.  Again, leverage your news contacts at the court to determine what is best for your situation.  You could also call up your cell phone provider and ask them to keep tower information on you [same data used in court cases] for an extended period.  I am not sure how long they are required to keep this data, something your attorney should be able to answer for you.


5.  Rebuild - once the dust has settled, you will need to rebuild.  You will likely be emotionally scarred from this ordeal, hopefully the damage will be minimized, and you can stop further damage with your actions.  Continue individual therapy for yourself, to figure out what you need to do for yourself.


In any event do look after yourself, do what is right for you, only you can do that for yourself.

Also do self-care.  Ask questions, vent, and leverage any resource you can think of, as you need peace of mind.

Take care.

[Falcon2437]

Couscous,

Thank you yeah I definitely understand logically that if G-d forbid my wife does that it is not my parents fault and it is not mine. I know we as people all impact each other but we are not responsible for people's ultimate choices and decisions. It took me a while to get there logically because I have been told several times that it is "my fault she is going to kill herself" and obviously there's no way to just brush that off but I do know logically that I (and my parents) are not responsible for that choice if it ever happens. It's the emotional side of things that I'm not sure I will ever be able to reconcile because I do feel responsible (even though I know I'm not).

Yeah you are right me staying hasn't stopped some of the threats. When I talked to my therapist he told me a thought exercise is to think of everything as a drug addiction instead of BPD and my thought was that I feel by staying I can help calm the "drug use" and avoid a fatal overdose but the reality is that even if I'm there a person can overdose anyway.

I agree with what you said about my MIL. I hope I can find a way to get help too I just don't know how. She turns down any help from 988 and says she doesn't need that she just needs a baby to not feel broken anymore. I think she is seeing a therapist or psychiatrist now but she's lied about that before so I'm not 100% sure.

Thank you for your support and your help it means a lot to me.


Thankful,

Thank you so much for sharing. I can definitely understand what you mean when you talk about the impact that this forum can have. To anyone reading this right now thank you, this has meant so much to me and really made me feel like I am not alone. After talking to different therapists, DV hotlines, 988 and other support groups I can't begin to express how much of a difference this website has already had on my life and on my relationship.

I think what you are talking about with Quora is something I can work on where I don't need to lie but I also don't need to preemptively share things that will only escalate the situation.



Salty,
I have been off from work the past couple of days (which I why I didn't respond earlier) and don't feel comfortable checking this website when I am at home. I really really appreciate everything you said here and I will try to respond tonight before I leave work but if I run out of time I will answer tomorrow when I am back at work.

Thank you all.

[Falcon2437]

Salty,

Thank you for everything and thank you for being open and honest with me. I think a part of me is still hoping a magic safe exit will come up but logically I know at this point you are right, it is damage control. Like you said if anyone else reading this has any ideas please let me know!

Good call on renaming clips. Do you know with video recordings on a phone if there is a good way to do that? I have "favorited" a few of the more egregious ones like when she told me she'd hit herself so there are marks and call the police but as I look back on the rest of them I realize I have probably 50+ hours and a lot of them are not marked. If there is a way to rename a video clip that would be extremely helpful.

Holy crap I cannot imagine being face to face with terrorists and thank you for your service along with the hours of time you have spent helping me in this situation.

Yes I have an individual therapist. His main suggestion was for me to pack up when she is not in the house, leave and sever all contact. It is likely the safest option for me personally I agree but I really don't think I could ever do that as I don't think it is safe for her.

Our couples therapist seems to be more of a rip the Band-Aid type person but he can only say so much as he is also working with her obviously.

Yeah there is no way she will give me the name of her own therapist/psychiatrist, I have asked before. I don't know if she is keeping the name from me so I can't reach out or because she isn't actually seeing anyone but either way I can't get in contact with them.

I have called 911 and had the police come to our house six times and then a seventh time we had a mobile crisis team come out. They came out just to hopefully de-escalate the situation and lead to real help and change but once they decided they needed to chapter her the police came out to help with that as well. I don't really know much about Smart911 but I will look into it when I get back to work tomorrow. Thank you!

She was only institutionalized once and that time was extremely brief. I'm not sure how much they can tell me legally and I know she has already lied to me about what did and didn't happen during her time there. (She told me she was handcuffed the entire time and at the very least one of the crisis response people was able to tell me that definitely was not the case)

She does have a job. In the five years we've been together she's had I think six different jobs because there is always some major problem with management that pops up about six months in. At first I thought she just had horrible luck and really was being lied to in interviews and at work, now I realize that might not be the case... Yeah she mostly works remote but one or two times a week is in person and anything I do major such as talking to a lawyer, the police or packing a go bag has happened on those days to be safe.

My parents put up their own boundary because they feel she has consistently lied to them and been ungrateful and unwilling to participate in anything with the family. The final straw for them I think was when they saw me completely break down crying in front of them about how I don't know how much more of this I can take. My parents haven't explicitly told me that I should or shouldn't do anything because candidly when this all started to go off the rails I made it pretty clear to them that anything that happens needs to be MY choice. It is my life and I need to be the one driving it. That's something I've avoided in the past and that attitude is part of how I am in this current situation in the first place so it was very important to me that while I absolutely can get (and want to get) help, any decision has to be mine.

With my MIL I think she knows I am considering this. I don't want to project too much but I think her relationship with her ex-husband and my wife's father was very similar so I really do think she gets it but ultimately as you said regardless of whether or not she gets it her daughter is (and should be) her number one priority. I agree that I probably need to include her. I tried a bit of a test run today. I made the decision that I wanted to see my six-year-old niece's dance recital and I knew that decision would likely be a problem. This is the first time I've seen most of my family in two months since the time I had to call the paramedics but I decided ultimately I can't cut my family out and live my entire life in fear of what my wife MIGHT do. So I called my MIL yesterday to tell her this was a decision I made and there might be trouble the next day. Ultimately my wife did get very upset with me today and while there was some yelling and scolding I still went and her mom spent most of the night with her. It's weird to say I'm happy with how things went because I did feel scolded and demeaned, but I am happy with how that part of it went because I think it was about the best case scenario.


I do need to leave work now and go back home so that there aren't questions/problems about where I am if she wakes up but I will comment on the rest of this later. Thank you again so much for your support.

[SaltyDawg]

Falcon,

I am going to comment on each of your paragraphs in which I can add something I haven't already said individually.  I will quote you first in italics, and my response immediately after.

Good call on renaming clips. Do you know with video recordings on a phone if there is a good way to do that? I have "favorited" a few of the more egregious ones like when she told me she'd hit herself so there are marks and call the police but as I look back on the rest of them I realize I have probably 50+ hours and a lot of them are not marked. If there is a way to rename a video clip that would be extremely helpful.

I know how to do it on Android, but not iPhone.  For my Android write-up I did last fall look here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354091.msg13181755#msg13181755 for iPhone I found this website:  https://support.apple.com/guide/clips/work-with-videos-devd4d83329b/ios


Holy crap I cannot imagine being face to face with terrorists and thank you for your service along with the hours of time you have spent helping me in this situation.

Uncle Sam made sure I had the training, hardware, support network and the tools to deal specifically with these situations and scenarios.  Ironically this training included formal psychological training for a hostage scenario otherwise known as "Stockholm Syndrome" which is nearly identical to 'trauma bonding' experienced by the spouses/lovers of pwBPD - the only difference I was not expecting to be bonded this way with my wife for the past 2+ decades, so my defenses were down, and the bond I have is severe.  This site has a couple of good links on trauma bonding, that you will probably want to look at:

More information can be found here on the 'trauma bond'.

Signs/symptoms:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=229693.0

Treating:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327131.0


Yes I have an individual therapist. His main suggestion was for me to pack up when she is not in the house, leave and sever all contact. It is likely the safest option for me personally I agree but I really don't think I could ever do that as I don't think it is safe for her.

I agree with your T [therapist] - this is a 'wise mind' scenario.  My opinion is to only Identify only irreplaceable possessions [photo albums, passport, account statements, social security card, credentials, licenses, etc], anything that is replaceable, plan on leaving - you do not want to arouse suspicions and telegraph your actions.  Possibly include a few high dollar items that are small and compact too as a secondary priority.


Our couples therapist seems to be more of a rip the Band-Aid type person but he can only say so much as he is also working with her obviously.

My suggestion is to establish a minimum boundary to stop the emotional abuse with the couple's T - I found this to be the biggest help in my scenario.


Yeah there is no way she will give me the name of her own therapist/psychiatrist, I have asked before. I don't know if she is keeping the name from me so I can't reach out or because she isn't actually seeing anyone but either way I can't get in contact with them.

This information is not needed if you are ultimately leaving the situation.  However, if you are going to stay, then it is advisable to find out her T and communicate your observations of the relationship.


I have called 911 and had the police come to our house six times and then a seventh time we had a mobile crisis team come out. They came out just to hopefully de-escalate the situation and lead to real help and change but once they decided they needed to chapter her the police came out to help with that as well. I don't really know much about Smart911 but I will look into it when I get back to work tomorrow. Thank you!

Get complete records for each and every '911 call' for your attorney.  The more legwork you do, the less expensive your attorney will be.  

The Smart911 system covers about 1/3 of US population.  When you call in with your mobile phone, or any phone number that you attach to it, the dispatcher's screen will fill up with previous details [that you control, including any pictures you pre-plan to share with emergency response which may include a floor plan of your dwelling (fire plan), health information on you and your wife including her past suicide attempts (including identifying photos), etc.] in addition to any additional details that their system has on you.  It will assist the dispatcher and authorities on what to send, and their response when they are on-scene - it could mean the difference of using LTLF (less than lethal force - e.g. a tazer) or LF to calm your wife down if she has a deadly weapon in hand on her next attempt.  This is more useful if you are travelling with her on to a vacation spot, my home doesn't use it; however, the area we vacation in does.


She was only institutionalized once and that time was extremely brief. I'm not sure how much they can tell me legally and I know she has already lied to me about what did and didn't happen during her time there. (She told me she was handcuffed the entire time and at the very least one of the crisis response people was able to tell me that definitely was not the case)

If she used your insurance, contact your insurance for records - see if there is a code that would indicate a diagnosis.  Use your newsroom detective skills to legally find out as much as you can.  This will also help your attorney once you obtain one.  I would still call the institution up, explain your wife's suicidal tendencies, and ask them for any advice that they can give you.  The worst they will tell you is 'no'.  The best is that they will tell you is her diagnosis without going into specifics.  Or somewhere in between where they can give you enough clues to figure it out yourself.

I am assuming that she was admitted by the 911 crisis team, if so, visit and talk to the responding supervisor, I find most responders take great pride in their work, and if you stroke their ego a little bit, it goes a long way to getting information.  Arrive with a dozen donuts to thank them for their service - you would be surprised on how well that works.


She does have a job. In the five years we've been together she's had I think six different jobs because there is always some major problem with management that pops up about six months in. At first I thought she just had horrible luck and really was being lied to in interviews and at work, now I realize that might not be the case... Yeah she mostly works remote but one or two times a week is in person and anything I do major such as talking to a lawyer, the police or packing a go bag has happened on those days to be safe.

Similar pattern with my wife, except it is every few years, not half a year.  If my wife paints someone black, there is trouble.  My wife has received warnings on her behavior, so I know it is 'not me' as she alleges.  Also, consider moving some critical stuff to your parent's house, or your work [if you have a lockable office]


My parents put up their own boundary because they feel she has consistently lied to them and been ungrateful and unwilling to participate in anything with the family. The final straw for them I think was when they saw me completely break down crying in front of them about how I don't know how much more of this I can take. My parents haven't explicitly told me that I should or shouldn't do anything because candidly when this all started to go off the rails I made it pretty clear to them that anything that happens needs to be MY choice. It is my life and I need to be the one driving it. That's something I've avoided in the past and that attitude is part of how I am in this current situation in the first place so it was very important to me that while I absolutely can get (and want to get) help, any decision has to be mine.

Yes, I agree, it is your life, and you need to be driving it.  However, I would highly recommend that you have a good conversation with your parents on this matter, especially if you need financial and/or emotional support for the divorce attorney and solicit their opinion for additional consideration.  My wife is an accountant by trade, and monitors all of my spending [yes, this can be seen as financial abuse].  Also, if you need a place to stay [however, if your wife knows this address, she can harass you there too; hence the need for a restraining order]


With my MIL I think she knows I am considering this. I don't want to project too much but I think her relationship with her ex-husband and my wife's father was very similar so I really do think she gets it but ultimately as you said regardless of whether or not she gets it her daughter is (and should be) her number one priority. I agree that I probably need to include her. I tried a bit of a test run today. I made the decision that I wanted to see my six-year-old niece's dance recital and I knew that decision would likely be a problem. This is the first time I've seen most of my family in two months since the time I had to call the paramedics but I decided ultimately I can't cut my family out and live my entire life in fear of what my wife MIGHT do.  So I called my MIL yesterday to tell her this was a decision I made and there might be trouble the next day. Ultimately my wife did get very upset with me today and while there was some yelling and scolding I still went and her mom spent most of the night with her. It's weird to say I'm happy with how things went because I did feel scolded and demeaned, but I am happy with how that part of it went because I think it was about the best case scenario.

DO NOT CUT YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS OUT!  This was my of my biggest mistakes, I cut out my friends due to my wife's irrational behavior - I will be having this conversation with our couple's T this upcoming Tuesday, as I lost my emotional 'support network' due to my actions of cutting them out of my life when my wife first started to go off the rails and did not approve of my choice of friends whom she perceived as a threat.  I need emotional support friends now, but I am not close enough to any of them for the support that I need.  And the one that I did get, was just taken away by emotional duress through my wife's action and the couple's T.  

Also, I recommend not to project any more than you need to.  You pretty much want to keep the same level of conflict until you are ready to execute your exit strategy.  You don't want to arouse suspicions more than you need to, as you don't want to burn bridges if you are going to stay, nor do you want them to prepare for you leaving when you do leave as that will be that much more difficult.

I think, if and when the time comes, you have established that your MIL will be there for her, so you can throw the proverbial torch at her as you are running out the door.  Hopefully your MIL will catch it, and run with it as much as she doesn't want to.  So 'Plan B' is the more likely scenario to reduce the chances of the worst possible outcome.

From your observation of your MIL and your wife's father history, there is an environmental factor correlation of a poor childhood that is more often than not the cause of BPD.

I know you have a lot to think about.  Remember self-care.  Even if you have an iPhone, there is a lot in the Android thread to read up on there too.

Take care.

[Falcon2437]

Ok I'm sorry I have been gone for a while. First of all, let me thank all of you again for your messages. I have spent I don't even know how many days, weeks, months talking to therapists, lawyers, crisis counselors, police, domestic violence hotlines, advocates, etc.

I finally decided to leave last week. I didn't plan to file for divorce I just wanted a week to think and have space. I worked out a plan with my therapists and the crisis counselor to leave and tell my wife on the phone so she couldn't escalate in front of me. I had three pages of notes for what to say and how to react when she said "I'm going to kill myself" "this is your fault" "I can't believe you are abandoning me" or a whole lot of other stuff. I was so proud of myself for actually doing it and holding relatively firm. She told me she couldn't do a week I had to come home, I said I can't come home right now. She told me I could do this but only if I guarantee that I will never leave again and will spend every night with her from then on out. I said I can't guarantee that. She said I can go but I have to tell her who I am staying with and where I am, I told her I can't do that. Eventually when she said I had to talk to her the next morning I caved. I knew in the moment I shouldn't have but I did. I wanted the call to last 10 minutes, it lasted three hours. After I hung up she called me three different times and texted me once. I didn't respond. The next morning she told me that she would've taken her mom to the hospital for a wrist injury but couldn't have done it because she would've had to leave our dog alone and how dare I do that. First of all, the dog is fine home alone from 1-7 AM, she'd be sleeping anyway. Second of all I found out later her mom had minor bruising on her wrist and that bruising was from HITTING A HOLE IN OUR WALL. But by that point I was already home and hooked by all of the threats of suicide. I have been living at home since (about a week) and I am just so scared. She has left or threatened to leave 7 of the last 8 days (after doing it on and off for three years) but always comes back and always talks about how I abandoned her.
I am still holding relatively firm on saying I will not have unprotected sex. Yesterday she talked/scolded/yelled at me about it from 6:30 in the morning until 10 at night. I had to call the police once after she talked about hurting herself while holding a knife. When the crisis team came I tried to leave with them but she said how she didn't know what she'd do if she was alone so against my better judgement I stayed. Of course once they left she said how she needed to leave because how dare I do this to her. She left and came back four times and told me if I didn't sleep in the bed with her she'd start to feel suicidal again. So I did it. We did not have sex. This morning I had to call the police again after she kept asking me about unprotected sex and trying to conceive. I said I want to work on our relationship but that is one thing I can not do right now. She said so you won't have unprotected sex? I said no. She said "Ok I'm killing myself."
When the police came she had already left but talked to them on the phone and lied saying that she never said that. I have a recording of it. I can guarantee you (and the police) that she said it. Once they were gone she called me on the phone and continued threatening herself until I said I will do whatever she wants. I am ashamed to say that I did say I'll do whatever she wants. When she got home I left for work and did not have sex with her and I really really really do not want to. I have done it before when she's demanded while suicidal but I can not do it again. Am I an asshole because I won't give her what she needs to heal?

As I was driving to work I found myself thinking about different ways I could break an arm or somehow injure myself to where I'd be allowed to stay at the hospital instead of at home. I would never actually kill myself and frankly I wouldn't ever truly hurt myself either but even the fact that I was thinking about it scares the PLEASE READ out of me.

I am at the point where I KNOW I need to leave. I have been verbally, sexually and physically abused in this relationship and as much as I want her to get help, as much as I need her to be safe and as much as I still to this day love her I CAN NOT DO THIS. I'm sorry I was gone from this thread for a while but I would love any advice anyone can give me on how to leave and how to leave forever and for good.

Thank you
Falcon

[Chief Drizzt]

Hey Falcon-

Sounds like a really tough situation you are in with your wife. I really don’t know what advice to give you as I am all-in with my wife and doing every thing I can to maintain a healthy marriage.

I will say though that when things get really rough I have contemplated/fantasized of just up and leaving - moving to another state - changing bank accounts - phone number - etc.  Literally cutting off all ties.  I’d never do it before - but now that all the kids are adults with the youngest heading off to college soon it’s something I still consider when things go haywire.  I think with my situation - going off the grid (for lack of a better term) would be the only way to do it. It’s just really hard when you have more than 30 years invested in a marriage and you really love the person with BPD.  I doubt I’d every really do it.

[Cat Familiar]

I’m posting what I just wrote on another thread regarding suicide threats. These threats work because we never know whether or not to take them seriously. I stayed in the marriage for far too many years, fearing that if I were to leave, he’d kill himself. It does happen, but apparently in his case, the threats were manipulation rather than real.

Around the time I was breaking up with my husband, the neighbor who lived across the road shot himself in his barn, and was found by his mother and his three year old daughter.

His wife told me she had left, taking their two children with her, because he’d been using meth—something that I was completely unaware of, as he seemed like a normal family man working as a contractor.

Within a couple of weeks of our breakup, my ex had paired up with a welfare mom. Months later I’d heard several reports from people in town that the two of them were dirty and smelled bad, and I certainly noticed that whenever he showed up to take things from the property. (It wasn’t until years later that I finally put two and two together: the erratic behavior—worse than before; the lying—typical, but more extreme; the grandiose delusions—wasn’t sure if I had finally woken up and was seeing the truth or if these were more serious crazy notions than what I was accustomed to. But ultimately it occurred to me that he was likely doing meth.)

Even though I didn’t realize what was going on with him at the time, I instinctively knew something was seriously *OFF* with him and the suicide threats he’d made throughout our marriage haunted me, especially after the neighbor’s death.

At this point, everything was in motion with the divorce, so I kept putting one foot in front of the other and persevering. I knew that there was nothing I could do to protect him or keep him safe, and if he was going to take his own life, that was on him, not me, though I did worry about his survival.

Fast forward many years later: I’ve been no contact for years, yet I’ve heard about many of his subsequent misadventures: arrest for domestic violence, fleeing the state and being on our county’s “wanted list,” living on the other coast and racking up bills for which creditors have called me, receiving a phone call from a woman tracking down her father (him) from a one night stand when he was married to me, learning that he had chosen not to visit his long-suffering mother at the end of her life (probably to avoid being arrested in this state), and other sundry details.

Obviously I had underrated his survival skills.  

Like you, throughout the marriage I had focused upon the good and kind parts of him and hoped to support those, while hoping the difficult and abusive parts would recede through my kindness and continued support. Didn’t happen. Apparently he’s been able to successfully latch on to a succession of women who were able to bail him out of difficulty. Turns out the threats were just that—manipulative threats.

We are only responsible for our own choices. We cannot save someone hellbent on destruction. Talk is cheap, but the fear it can elicit in us can keep us hooked—trying to right someone else’s ship, when we really need to pay attention to keeping our own boat afloat.