Help with wife

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Yes, it is the same agenda, and good that you’re aware of that. As you’ve experienced, she will keep on pressing you, hoping to get past your resistance. Slippery slope indeed!

You’ve mentioned that you love her. Hard questions: do you love the person you initially fell in love with? If you were to meet her now, would you love that person?

[Cat Familiar]

Yes, it is the same agenda, and good that you’re aware of that. As you’ve experienced, she will keep on pressing you, hoping to get past your resistance. Slippery slope indeed!

You’ve mentioned that you love her. Hard questions: do you love the person you initially fell in love with? If you were to meet her now, would you love that person?

[Falcon2437]

That's a fair question. I have been trying to force myself to take some time every day to truly sit and think about where I am, where I want to go and what I want/need in my relationship. Tonight I'm absolutely using that as a prompt for myself, thank you.

[ForeverDad]

The rest of the talk from there was fairly intense about how she is falling apart and doesn't know how much more trauma she can take alone.

I see triggers and trauma as descriptive words of two different things.

I don't know how, at this point, you can reduce her (past) trauma.  Maybe a therapist can help with that.

I suspect that both being with you as well as being without you are triggers for her.  That too, at this point, is beyond your capabilities to handle.

[Notwendy]

I think it might help to share why I "feel badly" after visiting my BPD mother.

I don't think it's juvenile to say "feel bad"- it's something to pay attention to. I think it's also a mix of feelings that contribute to "feeling bad".

Reading about the Karpman triangle helps to understand the roles in dysfunctional dynamics. My mother (and I think pwBPD in general) take on "victim" perspective. This leaves other in one of the other two roles: "rescuer" and "persecutor". There's an emotional (and emotionally protective) benefit to taking victim perspective- and that is victims are not accountable for their actions, you don't blame the victim. This avoids shame.

I am not sure what your wishes are for the outcome of your "talks" with your wife, but I think the hope is for some sort of mutual understanding of feelings on both your part and a discussion of how to improve the relationship. When someone is in victim mode, the discussion is about their feelings and how you, or others, have wronged them or hurt them in some way. There isn't mutuality.

You don't want to be the bad guy in this scenario. I don't want to be the bad guy with my mother either, but no matter what my attempts are to do something nice for her when I visit, she will somehow focus on what I did wrong, or didn't do and that it has hurt her in some way. Admittedly, I am guarded around her, but that is due to her behavior. However, she can't or won't perceive that. To her, the issues in our relationship are because of me.

Projections of feelings- and past hurts. You didn't cause your wife's past traumas. I didn't cause my BPD mothers' either but she seems to play out and project her emotional sadness with people close to her. If we care about someone, we do feel badly when they are so sad and seem to be blaming us for that. I feel helpless because, even if I want to help her feel better, I can not control her feelings. Another result of projection is that, this is not a mutual relationship between two people. She sees her projections.

Being manipulated and enlisted as a caretaker feels "icky".

I understand the wish to "talk things out" but are they mutual or consist of your wife taking victim position?

It's understandable that she's concerned about the biological clock and wants you to have a baby with her. But your feelings about this matter too. Is this the person who you want to be the mother of your children? That's an important question as if she wants a child, and you do not want to father a child with her, then this puts the relationship in question. BPD may complicate the situation but still- you can choose who you wish to have a child with.

At the moment, it seems you are still not sure of what you want and so are continuing these talks with boundaries on your part but your wife doesn't want these boundaries and so your encounters are uncomfortable for you. It may help to have less one on one in places like restaurants and bars at night and keep your talks to counseling sessions, coffee during the day. These are conventional boundaries. They send an unspoken message. Coffee means just to talk. Dinner and meeting in a bar is more ambiguous.

[Falcon2437]

Thank you guys again and NotWendy yeah a lot of that resonates with me. At this point I pretty much know that things can never be what I truly want in our marriage, we had another really rough 24 hours. We met for a walk and lunch yesterday and for the first hour or so it was really pleasant. We didn't talk about anything real, but I didn't want us to either. I just wanted to see if we could actually enjoy each other's company and we really did. At lunch she started talking about the city of New Orleans. I am going to a family wedding there in two weeks that we were both originally invited to but obviously things have drastically changed since then. I decided about a week ago that I wanted to go to that family wedding and I would tell my wife when she was more stable and able to hear that. Once she brought the city up and things were a bit better I felt I had to tell her because keeping it from her would have been a lie at that point (and obviously she's going to find out eventually anyway when I'm gone in two weeks). The second I said it I could see the switch flip in her face. Everything about her demeanor changed instantly and she got very upset with me for making that choice without her and without talking to her. I didn't know what to say because she's right, that wasn't a "we" decision as she so often likes to say but right now "we" are separated and trying to figure things out. I made the decision I wanted to go to that wedding and I'm going to go. I did tell her I would talk to her about decisions like that in the future but ultimately it is my decision and if I want to go I am going to go. She then told me she wanted me to leave for a little bit so she could process so I stood about a block down for 10ish minutes while she processed. Honestly I felt a bit ridiculous just sitting there in public but I was proud of her. She didn't yell. She is trying to implement new skills she is learning and I genuinely appreciate that. She came back 10ish minutes later and said she wanted to leave but of course she didn't and we talked for a while longer. It crossed from just New Orleans to some of the greatest hits throughout our troubles.

She kept telling me things like "I couldn't feel more rejected by you if I tried and I don't know how much more I can take." "I have been banished from my house (again to be clear I've told her she can stay there if she'd like but I won't be there with her, it's not like she is banned from the house)." "I see how you make decisions without me and we don't live together and I have never felt this disregarded or like I don't mater in my entire life. I need a partner. I need someone who will go through it with me."

She then wanted to pack a bag to "go away for a while" because she can't keep feeling like she doesn't matter. I continued to tell her that you do matter and what you need does matter, but my needs matter too and while I want us to work through things I am not comfortable with us living together right now. I said how we can't even have a couple hours of talking without things going off the rails I'm not comfortable living in that situation. She then told me "it's time to say goodbye." In this case I think she was implying divorce not suicide, but I'm also living on the edge always uneasy that she is going to go into suicidal thoughts and I was scared.

She then came to the house and we talked on the couch. I was not ready for how hard that would be for me. I have been able to communicate with her better at times these past few weeks in different locations, but at home I was unable to look her in eyes. I just kept reliving all the times she screamed at me, cursed at me, threw things, hit herself or took advantage of me. I don't think I rationally had anything to fear in that moment she wasn't doing any of those things but whether it is rational or not I was terrified. She hugged me then left and a few minutes later called crying and telling me how seeing me that hurt was so hard for her.

It being hard to see me hurt quickly transitioned to how she can't do this anymore and she needs us to work through things together. She said she won't stay with her mom anymore and asked "should I have just killed myself?"

I immediately of course answered no. Maybe I'm an a&&hole but to me I feel like she is bringing up those suicidal words to try to manipulate me into saying "oh please honey come home" and I just can't do that right now. She told me how she has nothing to be alive for if she isn't "loved and cherished." I told her she is loved and I want us to work on things but I can't live together right now. Give or take a few minutes that was the end of last night's conversation.


Today felt like before the hospitalization and the medication. She didn't quite scream at me on the phone but at times it was close and the guilting was of the charts. These are some direct quotes from her I wrote down.

"I have never been more hurting than I am now. I got out and have felt abandoned and diminished and like I don't matter...I hate myself. I have never hated myself more. Being in the house with you yesterday and watching you I understand who I am. I know I'm a monster." (I of course then told her she isn't a monster and I don't want her to feel that way but yeah I was really strugging with my own trauma/memories of us together in the house yesterday).

"I have wanted to kill myself every day since I got out (of the hospital). Staying at my mom's I feel awful. I feel completely abandoned. I feel completely unworthy."

"You committed me (which I didn't commit her, the police took her because she was talking about plans for suicide) there and when I got home and was at my hardest moment I was completely alone."

"I didn't know I meant that little. Now that I know I mean that little to you it just hurts...I am having so much PTSD. I'm trying to not say anything because I'm trying to make it not about me."

"I wish I died! I wish I died! Every day I wish I died! The pain is so much and all I do is take more pain! And more pain! And more pain! (from me and my family)"

"Being alone again is too painful for me!"

She then threatened to leave the state and never come back because it is too hard to be in the same area as me but not be living with me.



So I just really don't know how to feel right now. She feels abandoned and she has every right to feel that way. I think I have been extremely available to her. I haven't blocked her calls or filed for divorce or told her I won't see her, I have just told her I can't live together right now. But on some level she's right. On some level she is alone and I am not there. I just don't know what to say when she gets like that other than that she isn't alone, she does have so many people who love her and I think things can get better, but right now I can't live with her. And at this point idk what to do. I don't want to live like this anymore. If that means a divorce I'm absolutely okay with that because this is literal hell. I cannot express just how scared I was when she was in the house. Just how scared I am and how I have to literally brace myself when her name shows up on my phone.

But as I've said before I do still love her despite all of this and I do want her to be 1. alive and 2. happy in her life. I just don't know how to help her achieve that because the way things are going in our relationship I can't be with her without sacrificing my entire life to fit her every whim and need.

[ForeverDad]

This is one of the reasons a halfway relationship and a halfway end to a relationship can't work with the disordered extreme pathways in her life and perceptions.

One the other hand, she did take time to process your decision.  Is this the "wise mind" concept they advocate so necessary to pause, reflect and ponder before jumping into overreaction?  But still there's the suicidal aspect still there, whether actual or manipulative.  After all this time with you, still a lot of sensitization to you and normal life.

[Falcon2437]

Yeah ForeverDad I think that is part of what is so hard for me to comprehend is on one hand I am miserable and some of this stuff is playing out very similar to how is used to be and I can not ever go back to that. On the other hand I can see her actively taking time to process and I can see her trying to implement stuff she is learning and I can see her trying. I'm just so lost and so confused. Like after all of this I heard nothing from her for hours. For all I know she did pack her stuff and leave to go to a different state. Then I get the "I miss you" text 45 minutes ago. I have no idea what to do with that. A part of me just wants her to feel better and to just say I miss you too, but the reality is I don't miss her. At least not the her that I've seen for the last two years. I am scared of that version of her and I feel a sense of peace when I am not with it. What I miss is who she was (or was pretending to be) years ago. And if I text back "I miss you" then it is misleading her. If I don't text at all she'll send something along the lines of "really? you don't even care about me enough to respond?" If I text back "I miss what we used to have" (which is how I feel) she'll say "wow you can't even say you miss me." There is no right answer with her, there is no good answer, it all just sucks.

(And you are right about halfway relationships)

[Cat Familiar]

This is a dangerous time for you. She’s playing with your heartstrings—alluding to suicide, speaking about moving out of state and never seeing you again, maintaining a modicum of self control, appearing to consider your feelings, demonstrating that she is learning new ways of being, trying to be perceived as a reasonable person, using ploys of *not mattering* to elicit your guilt, blaming you for being hospitalized, claiming that she misses you and cannot stand to be alone, so therefore you need to get back together.

She’s deviating from the “I’m sorry, I’ll do better” script, but at the same time is still blaming you and trying to make you feel guilty.

Right now, she is on her *best* behavior, hoping to manipulate you into giving the relationship another shot…right now!

Should this play out as we’ve often seen on these boards, you will believe that she truly is remorseful, has changed, is willing to do the work to *get better*

AND…soon, after a brief honeymoon phase, it will return to how it was, but worse. There will be demands for starting a family, to cement the bond between you.

But it seems that you are not buying into her *epiphany* and neither is she, as she’s not totally committed to playing the role of *repentant spouse*, as she’s still engaged in trying to make you pay for *abandoning* her.

[Turkish]

A neutral response might be, "how are you doing?" Maybe still invalidating to her, but not as much as no answer. Besides, you want info, yes?

[Falcon2437]

Thank you for the suggestion Turkish. Honestly at this point idk if I want information because while I really do want her to be okay and I want to know she is okay I also feel like what she is telling me isn't real information it is just a manipulation attempt to guilt me into saying we should try living together again. So if there is real information then yeah I want to know it. But if the information is just a version of "I feel horrible because you abandoned me and I will never be able to be okay without living with you" then I really don't want to hear it because I don't believe that everything is my fault but I know myself (and her) well enough to know that when she gets going I am just going to feel like PLEASE READ. I am just going to feel like this is all on me and I am ruining both of our lives and I should just do what she wants. And as I think about it now with a clear head, I don't want to get to that point.

Cat yeah I definitely do think this is a dangerous time too. I am trying really hard not to buy everything hook line and sinker and stick to what I wanted initially which is that if we are going to try again it is going to happen at a slow pace that I am okay with. And every time we see each other when things inevitably go to hell it just further proves how not ready we are to be living together. If we can't get through a phone call, an hour walk, a lunch/dinner then why the hell would I say "oh yeah let's live together!"

[ForeverDad]

This is a dangerous time for you. She’s playing with your heartstrings—alluding to suicide, speaking about moving out of state and never seeing you again, maintaining a modicum of self control, appearing to consider your feelings, demonstrating that she is learning new ways of being, trying to be perceived as a reasonable person, using ploys of *not mattering* to elicit your guilt, blaming you for being hospitalized, claiming that she misses you and cannot stand to be alone, so therefore you need to get back together.

This matches your own words.

Over the last four and a half years I have been lied to compulsively, threatened and abused nearly the entire time. I have been verbally, emotionally, physically and sexually abused in my relationship and in my marriage and I cannot take it anymore. As I sit here thinking about everything, any one of those sets of abuse should have been enough for me to run. Any one of the gigantic, elaborate lies to change my life should have been a red flag that scared me enough...

This is the most simple thing I will write here and it is also the hardest. No means no. It does not mean threaten, berate and scare until it becomes a yes. It does not mean keep talking for 20 straight hours until it becomes a yes... So I have done it. Multiple times... Then the cycle repeats itself and she makes me do it again... That is not okay. I don’t deserve that. No one deserves that...

I have been threatened that I will be stabbed if I don’t let her get to the knives to kill herself and told to “rot in hell ... and much more. I have been screamed at privately, I have been screamed at publicly in the streets, I have been screamed at in front of her family. That is not okay. I will not take that. I will not endure that. I will not live like that.

That brings me to what most of the physical abuse has been which is not direct stuff but things intended to intimidate, scare or coerce me into doing what she needs so she’ll stop. Over the last year she has thrown and broken a drinking glass, a container of oats, broken a mirror on our bedroom door from slamming it too hard and broken her phone throwing it at the ground. I have watched her punch herself in the face at full force...

For six months I have been living under threat of death. Not my own, but hers. As I said when talking about sexual abuse I feel I have been living with a gun to her head. She has told me she will take pills, she has told me she’ll jump out the window, bash her head in, stab herself, drive into a tree, walk into traffic if I don’t “take the pain away” “help her heal” or flat out give her a baby. She has told me she’s watched a video on how to knock herself unconscious to get rid of the pain and then did it. That was the day I broke the bathroom door down and called the paramedics. And all of it happened because I went to see my family on Hanukkah. The truth is, she’s in unimaginable pain. She does feel cut out by my family and she doesn’t see her role in it. That is real. Her feelings and her pain are real to her. I will never tell her they aren’t. But I can’t live at gunpoint...

The police have been to my house more than ten times now because it escalates to a point where I don’t know what to do. I don’t know how to keep her safe... She has told me that she will lie to the police about me hitting her. That she will hit herself so there are marks and then tell the police I did it. That could result in me literally going to jail for beating my wife who I have never touched... She has also threatened my job...

About the police...  Imagine this scenario... The call comes in and a couple police are notified to rush to your home, domestic dispute, life or death.  One tells the other, "Don't rush, Falcon always calls then goes right back to her.  Why should we rush when all he does is take a revolving door to circle back to her later?"  Message is, Why should others feel impelled to help you when their impression of you is you won't truly do what you need to do to help yourself?

Yet here you still are, fretting about how to help her.  The blunt reality is you can't.  You can't.  You're torn between keeping only one foot in the tank of piranhas rather than two.  Either way you still get eaten.  Yes, it sucks that really, truly, sadly, you can't help her, you can only help yourself.  She's an adult, her life is up to her.  Reality bites.

Where do you want to be next year, or five years from now?  Where will you be?  Still mired here or off to live your life in peace and calm?

[Stephen44]

Thank you for sharing this, it really resonates. And thank you for all of the advice. I'm going through an almost identical situation. Stay strong.

[Falcon2437]

So update from my situation is I think things are better but I don't know what to trust. On the one year anniversary of her dad dying she moved back into the house so it has been about 2.5 weeks and there definitely is a difference now that she is taking medication and working on her mental health. The yelling has stopped, the cursing at me has stopped and the breaking stuff has stopped. I'm not sure how to trust that it will stop forever. There are still times when I know she is manipulating me and telling me how I (or my family) am adding to her trauma but she isn't threatening to kill herself anymore. I have had pretty strict boundaries since we moved back in meaning we will not kiss let alone have unprotected sex until I am ready for it. She has respected those boundaries but I'll be honest it's been nearly three weeks and I still don't really have any interest in kissing her and certainly not in going further. I still find myself scared and anxious when I hear her coming up the stairs even though I know it is very different from before. I'm trying to really give this one final shot to see if this can work or not but I wasn't expecting it to still feel this way. I'm not sure if that will ever go away and if it isn't ever going to go away then I don't know how I can live like this forever.

Mother's Day is obviously this weekend and I want to go home for a little bit to see my mom and grandparents (who are not in the best of health) but I know that my wife is not welcome and if I go without her she will be extremely upset that I am "enabling them" to cut her out of the family. On some level she's right. My family had plenty of reasons to cut ties with her in the first place but I wish now things would just be less freakin complicated. But whatever the reasons were and whatever happened the fact is I do want to see my mom and my grandparents on Mother's Day and I will not let fear dictate my life the way it did for so long. So I'm planning to go.

I just hope this works out. I have been trying so hard to take time every day to reflect on where I am, where we are, where I want to be and the person, husband, son and friend I want to be and I just have nothing definitive. Every time I feel like I KNOW I need to get a divorce and walk away forever something convinces me otherwise. Every time I feel like okay things really are different, this really is the woman I fell in love with in the first place and we can be happy together something happens on the other end of the spectrum to remind me why I'm scared to move forward now.

I'm not sure what I am hoping for writing all of this down, but it helps to get off my chest. Thank you for listening.

[ForeverDad]

Every time I feel like okay things really are different, this really is the woman I fell in love with in the first place and we can be happy together something happens on the other end of the spectrum to remind me why I'm scared to move forward now.

I had been married about 5 years.  Every few months she'd have a sort of melt down, wordless, almost cowering and crying.  Nothing I could really do so I became accustomed to it and afterward would hope it wouldn't happen again.  But it did.

Then something happened and she never felt safe anymore.  We moved and I thought we were back to 'usual'.  No, there was trauma, she didn't feel safe anywhere.  And in her periodic rants (I at first interpreted them as rages over past child abuse) she then would curse like a sailor.  I was shocked but as before I became accustomed to it and afterward would hope it wouldn't happen again.  But it did.

Then she became dissatisfied with her coworkers and we ended up moving several states away.  Fresh start and I believed with new jobs everything would be normal.  But she periodically had conflict with her coworkers - again.  I had become accustomed to it and afterward would hope it wouldn't happen again.  But it did.

Then I had a great idea, or so I thought.  If we had a child then she'd be happy seeing our baby grow ad discover life.  Bad idea.  She started reliving her childhood through our child.  That's when I realized a deeper truth... having children does not fix serious mental health issues.

It got worse.  Her suspicions focused next on my family, our friends, and finally me.  She refused therapy.  She started contemplating disappearing with our child, my very parenting was at risk.  The marriage imploded, as I look back it was predictable and inevitable.

All along the way, after every rant and rage to the point of her exhaustion - during some 15 years! - she would return to "normal" (baseline?) and my hope was that it was the last rant and rage... well, it was, for a while, until the next trigger.  Your quote I excerpted above is what reminded me of my experience.  It is a common pattern.  How many times have you told yourself, "I think this time was the last rant and rage" but it wasn't?

Many of us have "been there, done that" ("been there, hoped that") but that's not reality.  The experiences of myself and others here are likely your future unless either (1) your spouse gets meaningful therapy applied diligently in spouse's life for years to come or (2) you end the adult relationship and, if there are any shared children, concentrate on being a parent to your children.

[livednlearned]

Hi Falcon,

I'm catching up on your story and it's heart breaking. You are clearly a wonderful person with a lot to offer and a big heart. It's tragic what you've been through and I'm glad you reached out to get support from people here. You mentioned your wife had ptsd. It would be a miracle if you didn't also suffer ptsd too given what you've been through. Have you discussed that with your therapist?

I don't know what to trust.

I would trust that the pervasive thought patterns and adaptations your wife has learned in childhood and refined over a lifetime are still there. Her frantic efforts to avoid abandonment are likely to return and may get worse, mostly because she just learned how far she can take things and you'll come back.

Medication can help alleviate depression and stabilize moods but her pattern of thinking  can't be cured with meds or by making promises.

I do want to see my mom and my grandparents on Mother's Day and I will not let fear dictate my life the way it did for so long. So I'm planning to go

It's important that you go. Before you go, see if you two can work out a plan. For example, maybe you tell her you will check your phone x number of times, or at pre-planned times, or will call when you get there, whatever you are comfortable with. Then stick to that schedule. This can help her from going from zero to 100, making it easier for you to leave.

Be alert that she may be ok during the trip and then fully dysregulate when you get home. It might be worth thinking through under what conditions you will stay somewhere else. What behaviors might signal it's safer to stay somewhere else for the night? You demonstrated to her that you had a boundary, and now, because you're a reasonable person, you are softening that boundary. It's very likely she will feel the need to test to see where the edges are. She won't know because she lacks her own boundaries. Boundaries for many of us have to be demonstrated with actions. Words become meaningless pretty quick.

Every time I feel like I KNOW I need to get a divorce and walk away forever something convinces me otherwise.

Do you have to make this decision right now? Your safety and well-being seem more important. How about you start with small steps? Safety first. How about you make a plan that takes into account your safety, then hers? When you feel she's pressuring you to have sex, are there patterns leading up to those moments that might help you sense what's coming next?

At a minimum, it seems like you need to show your wife that you will leave her presence if you feel unsafe. Do you think she can work out the details with you together? Say something like: If you feel things are escalating and begin to feel unsafe, you will immediately call her mom, then you'll turn your phone off, and check your messages an hour later to see if she has returned to baseline. If she texts that she is suicidal, the agreement is that you will call 911 to make sure someone trained can check on her. Something that you know you can do.

You might have some leverage right now following the shock of experiencing the natural consequences to her actions.


Maybe while she is still processing, you can help stabilize the volatility that is bound to return. My guess is that her behaviors will escalate when you see your family, followed by sexual assault or talk of suicide when you return.

It might be worth having a plan about what you will do if she text bombs you with talk of suicide while you're on your trip.

If you try to discuss any kind of plan and she digresses into a rumination (about your family or whatever), prepare for that. Some of us have had success redirecting back to the topic by repeating the same sentence over and over, or holding up a hand and saying Stop, over and over and over and over. It can feel foolish but you are talking to someone who is flooded in emotion. Sometimes you need to use a gimmick to get through to the part of their brain that is actively listening.

I will be curious to hear how things go for you Falcon, rooting for your success and at a minimum, a completed trip to see your family.  

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Falcon-

I too have just caught up reading through your thread.  I am deeply sorry for the terrible things that you have endured over the last 4+ years, and as I understand it, most intensely the last 2 years.  Extremely traumatizing for you, and G-D willing, I’m hoping your T (therapist) is helping *you* work through these issues.  I agree with Livednlearned that I’d be surprised if you have NOT developed PTSD after what you’ve experienced. 

I’ve also read that sometimes in a hospital setting, the assignment of “PTSD” (your W’s diagnosis) may at times be given, rather than BPD.  They may not have had adequate time or the proper expertise on staff to deliver the BPD or other Personality Disorder diagnosis.

I’m hoping my questions aren’t too insensitive or difficult for you to address.  Please know you don’t have to address them.

I’m wondering if you were able to attend the family wedding in New Orleans, how that went for you, and how your W reacted upon your return.

Prior to your most recent May 10th post (in April when you discussed the upcoming family wedding), your W did seem somewhat able to process the news that she would not be invited to attend that out of town wedding.  At that time in April you did not seem to be ready to have your W live with you yet.  If you’re comfortable, can you address what led to your decision to allow her to move back into your joint home?

Finally, Mother’s Day has just passed.  I’m hoping you were able to share time with your mom and your grandparents for the holiday, with NO repercussions when you returned home.  How did that go?  Again, if you’re comfortable discussing.

Falcon- I understand this is so very taxing… thinking about it, living in it and typing about it. 

We ARE here to support you however you need us to be.

Warmly,
Gems

[Falcon2437]

Hi Gems, Lived and Forever,

I hope you are all doing well. You guys all touched on some similar things so let me start with a brief catch-up. I DID go home for Mother's Day and my wife was surprisingly more than okay with it. I told her I wanted to talk to her about something (she had asked that when we have to have a serious conversation I give her a little heads up like that) and then when I told her I wanted to go home for the holiday she said something along the lines of "I'm going to be with my mom, you should go be with yours too" and really there were no repercussions. No threatening phone calls/texts or really even any manipulative I feel so horrible because you picked them over me language. I was a little worried about what Livednlearned talked about with things getting worse once I got home but that never happened either. ForeverDad when you talk about changes only happening if my wife gets meaningful therapy for years to come, she is doing that right now. She is also taking medication now. I can't answer if she will do it for years, decades, forever or if she is just doing it for now but I know for now she really is doing it and I can see a difference in her actions/behavior.

Livednlearned you are right I do not need to make any decision right now. I have made it clear to her that if things escalate or if she tries pressuring me into sex again then that is making a decision for me and I am out. So far she has respected that. But while I don't need to make a decision now I do feel like for my own sanity I have to do it at some point soon. I just kindof feel like I am living in limbo waiting for the next big problem and while that's okay for a little bit and life is never perfect I've now been thinking about a divorce for 8 months and only been married for 21 so at some point I do need to make a decision.

I haven't talked to my therapist about whether or not I have PTSD, I see him again tomorrow so I will bring it up but I think from talking to him more of what I deal with is a version of the avoidance and fear that I have dealt with most of my life.

To answer your questions Gem
1. I did attend the wedding in New Orleans and it went okay. There were times for me personally when I was just sad. Times when I was listening to my cousin-in-law talk about how much she loves her new in-laws and hearing my aunt/uncle talk about how much they view her as a daughter was extremely tough. It was also hard looking around at all of my cousins, half of whom are younger than me, and realizing that I'm the only one who isn't in a happy relationship/marriage and either have kids or are moving that direction. (I say that knowing that I am making a judgement here. The only people who truly know what is going on in a relationship are the people in it and it is possible some of them are not happy.) As far as things with my wife she was upset with me for going without talking to her or including her in the "conversation" about me going telling me that I set things in motion "behind her back" but other than that it was ok. She texted/called me a little bit but not much. When I got home she told me she felt like I was ignorning her but she didn't press it much. Overall I was fairly happy with how things went on that front.

I'm not sure I really was "comfortable" with her moving back into the house to be honest. This is probably what I am most upset with myself about because I know I did let her manipulate the situation to get what she wanted. Basically the day after I came back was the one year anniversary of her dad's death. I think I knew that day would end in disaster if she wasn't in the house so I caved. I've convinced myself a bit since then that really the only way to know if she changed for real or for show is to actually see for myself and as I'm trying to figure our relationship out I do think that is a major positive to us living together but if I'm being truly honest I wasn't comfortable with it when it first happened.

Mother's Day I hit earlier in this post but yeah I think it went well with no real repercussions.

Thank you all for your support!