Caretaking poem

[thankful person]

Hi all, I wanted to share this poem which I wrote shortly before I met my wife. I think it epitomises the caretaking mentality. At that time of my life I was actively searching for needy people so that I could feel needed, and yes, that’s when I found my wife. The sentiment still stands. If I can help anyone here with their relationship, or just be a supportive friend, then I would like to.

Why?

Why do I love?
Why do I give?
Why do I care so much?
About you.
Because all of the loneliness,
All of the sadness,
All the confusion and grief,
That I have ever known…
I don’t want you to go through that.
I wish my love could protect you.
Keep you safe from harm,
And prevent your pain,
And make you smile again.
I can’t save the world.
I can’t give this love to myself.
But sometimes I wonder if I have made any difference to you.
Any difference at all.
Because then I would know
That all the the loneliness,
All of the sadness,
All the confusion and grief,
That I have ever known,
Has been worth it
So I can be here for you.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[Bella2798]

At that time of my life I was actively searching for needy people so that I could feel needed, and yes, that’s when I found my wife.

This! Exactly! I've always had the feeling and I enjoyed it! Even though it's frustrating sometimes, i still enjoy even the pain.

And such a great poem to show how caretaking is. It reminds me of a sentence I wrote in a book. It's much more poetic in my native language, but it was like "As long as I was saving you, I had a reason to live."

[Notwendy]

I can relate to this poem as well, having grown up in a family with a BPD mother.

It's also possible that other family disorders can affect a child's self worth, but for me, approval from my parents seemed contingent on being useful to them, especially to BPD mother and also being an emotional caretaker to her.

We do take our childhood and family issues into relationships as adults which contributes to disorder. I have had to work at being less of a people pleaser. I don't think it's all a negative thing though- as there are ways to redirect this to positive such as caring for children or other helping professions.

One thing I observed from my BPD mother (who has NPD traits as well) is that she isn't happy.  We may be happier in a giving role rather than a taking role, but we need to be careful to not let it get to imbalance.

[SaltyDawg]

Thankful Person,

Thank you for sharing your poem, it was very touching and greatly appreciate it.

Take care.

SD

[thankful person]

This! Exactly! I've always had the feeling and I enjoyed it! Even though it's frustrating sometimes, i still enjoy even the pain.

And such a great poem to show how caretaking is. It reminds me of a sentence I wrote in a book. It's much more poetic in my native language, but it was like "As long as I was saving you, I had a reason to live."

Thank you Bella, I actually love your quote too, it’s so dark yet there’s something about it, like a toxic addiction. Would you mind sharing it in your native language?

[thankful person]

I don't think it's all a negative thing though- as there are ways to redirect this to positive such as caring for children or other helping professions.

Not Wendy, it is definitely not all negative! You have been an absolute blessing to me and my life and my children and in fact, my wife. I have learnt so much from you sharing your stories of your childhood and your parents and all your support and advice. I am so grateful to have been able to turn things around to such a great extent, with the improvement of my wife’s behaviour, even though our marriage may not last.

Salty Dawg, thank you also and you have also been very helpful with all the advice you’ve given me in the short time I’ve known you.

[Bella2798]

Thank you Bella, I actually love your quote too, it’s so dark yet there’s something about it, like a toxic addiction. Would you mind sharing it in your native language?

Here it is as it was written in the place I found it! :"تا وقتی مشغول نجات دادن تو بودم، دلیلی برای زندگی کردن داشتم."
I agree with you a lot, it's just like a toxic addiction, although I don't see it all in black but as a whole it can be exactly like that.

[thankful person]

Thanks Bella,
This is one of the songs that most represents my relationship:
https://youtu.be/ZrujXrB1_aE
Believe it or not, I was listening to this obsessively even before I gave up everything for her. And yet I still did it.

[Bella2798]

Thanks Bella,
This is one of the songs that most represents my relationship:
https://youtu.be/ZrujXrB1_aE
Believe it or not, I was listening to this obsessively even before I gave up everything for her. And yet I still did it.

God, I know this song but so weird that I never thought of it like this before you shared it... Now I feel more related to the lyrics... I think maybe most of us (if not all) have always had same pattern and thoughts before meeting out pwBPD...

[Notwendy]

I am glad that sharing my situation has helped you and others.

While being raised in my family did lead to issues in relationships that I have had to work on, I think it's been more due to having a low sense of self worth and high tolerance for being treated poorly rather than the need to caretake a seriously disordered person. I think I grew up with a fear of certain behaviors that would be red flags for this. What I didn't recognize well was the more subtle issues. Co-dependent behavior on my part was the example of a "normal" expectation for me.

There is something disturbing to me about that song. Just as that type of relationship draws some people in, even the song feels scary to me. I have seen this kind of "spell" effect my BPD mother has on some people- but not everyone. Some people are wary of her,  but some people are just drawn to be with her and it's not just with romantic relationships but with some friends/relatives as well.

Who we are attracted to, and who is attracted to us, is complicated and often we are not conscious of all that goes into it. Our family of origin dynamics has an influence on this.

[thankful person]

Not Wendy, I see the same effect my wife has on people where they are either drawn to her or they are almost repelled. I have never quite understood this. But she is trying to make friends in our new town and I’m very sad for her because so far she’s struggling with it. I know people are busy but maybe she comes across too needy. But surely it’s reasonable to be searching for friends in a new town as her wife works and she’s at home with our 3 babies. Traditionally my wife’s friends have always been people of low self worth and various mental illness issues. Whilst I want her to have friends I wish they could just be good role models rather than unstable, but I guess that’s what she likes. My wife is understandably paranoid about me meeting a new partner at work or online, particularly because we met online and fell in love. I say absolutely no way that could happen. When I met my wife, I was searching for someone needy. I was helping suicidal teenagers because that’s what I thought was my life’s purpose. She finally gave me the overdose of needy that I craved. I don’t want it anymore. If we were to split up I would be extremely wary of another controlling relationship or in fact, any relationship. Were I ever to feel the same about someone else, I’d be like, “been there, done that… not all it’s cracked up to be.” My children are my main focus now. We have a long road ahead but I want them to grow up to be emotionally healthy with some understanding than Mummy’s behaviour is sometimes not reasonable or acceptable and I want to help them process that. I really hope they will not need to join bpd family when they’re adults but if it comes to it I will certainly recommend it to them. 

[Notwendy]

Even though I don't feel comfortable with overly needy people, I have overfunctioned in the people pleasing and caretaking aspect. I noticed that sometimes guys I liked were either attracted to me or uncomfortable with me. I dated one guy in college who didn't like it that I was being "too nice" and now I see why- it's not an authentic relationship. It's not that I did anything majorly "wrong" - it's that he didn't feel comfortable with me. I also noticed that certain people were either attracted to me or took advantage or were actually cruel. I recall one "friend" ( not really) yelling at me and I asked her why she was yelling at me and her reply was "because I can". (She also had her own issues).

I think caretaker types are drawn to needy types and vice versa- but not to each other. I have read that this also involves boundaries as both types have poor boundaries. People with emotionally healthy boundaries are not comfortable around people who don't have them. They may be initially attracted to someone but soon into the relationship begin to feel uncomfortable and so the relationship doesn't last. I think if someone stays with someone else who doesn't have emotionally healthy boundaries, they feel some other sense of "fit" with them.

This may explain why your wife has trouble keeping friends who are emotionally sound. It may not be anything she does or doesn't do. It may be a sense of discomfort. Other people may feel a "fit" with your wife. This is one reason for the advice to not jump from one relationship to another without some self work as it may be something about who we attract and who is attracted to us that plays a part in who we want to be with. When we change, our "attraction" can change too.

[SaltyDawg]

I think caretaker types are drawn to needy types and vice versa- but not to each other.

My BIL & SIL are the exception to this rule - both are really great caretakers and fantastic people, their respective former spouses had 'issues' - never met them, so I can't say if they were BPD/NPD.

[Notwendy]

I think there's a difference between doing caring things ( while having emotionally healthy boundaries) and caretaking with poor boundaries- focusing too much on the other person while neglecting ones own needs. It's possible your BIL and SIL did learn better boundaries from their first relationships and then were emotionally healthy caring people who found each other. The idea of emotionally healthy interdependence vs co-dependence.

[thankful person]

I think caretaker types are drawn to needy types and vice versa- but not to each other.

Not Wendy, just wondering, why do you think this? I am curious about this, because I am so drawn to all the caretakers I’ve met here on bpd family. I find them very devoted not just to their partners but also to all the other random strangers they’re here to help and support.

[SaltyDawg]

"I think caretaker types are drawn to needy types and vice versa- but not to each other."

Not Wendy, just wondering, why do you think this? I am curious about this, because I am so drawn to all the caretakers I’ve met here on bpd family. I find them very devoted not just to their partners but also to all the other random strangers they’re here to help and support.

I am a caretaker type, I am also 'needy' of being 'loved' which I am not receiving in adequate amounts.  I am not needy in other areas [finances, physical health, etc.].  It is a good question, as I find myself mutually drawn to the 'allure' of the borderline [especially in the clearly dysfunctional love bombing phase] - it is more than likely the unhealthy trauma bond.

Caretakers are just that they 'take care' of people.  Many caretakers are also caregivers even if it is a random stranger, caregivers give their time and energy to others with little or nothing expected in return.  I know I am both a caretaker and a caregiver.  I also know that you are as well as I see you give your advise frequently and often to me and others.  We each have our own unique life experiences that we bring to the table that are complimentary to the devotion you, I, and other random strangers who share a common bond of dealing with a disordered individual give to each other, and in return each of us takes away new nuggets of understanding what we are going through together, no matter our orientation, race, religion, rich, poor - it crosses all boundaries, because we are all 'human'.

Generally speaking there are two types of people that bond with a cluster B disordered person (which includes BPD), one is a narcissist [most narcissist are not self-aware enough to come here, as they don't care who they F*, literally in addition to figuratively - they too are takers, they just don't 'care' who they hurt] and the other type is a 'codependent' in the form of a 'caretaker'.  I am a codependent caretaker who are often also caregivers.  It is one extreme or the other that bonds with a borderline.

There is a difference between caretaker and caregiver.  A caregiver will give of themselves unconditionally, like many who are on this forum - and is an emotionally healthy trait.  A caretaker will give of themselves conditionally with an expectation of getting [taking] something in return - generally the love and affection of their disordered individual which becomes unhealthy when there is no reciprocity and becomes codependency.  However, I feel that if there is reciprocity then it is a healthy form of interdependency that NotWendy has described when answering a similar question that she answered to me earlier in this post.

I can thank Red5 for a different post for making this connection for me in a different post for the difference between caretaker [unhealthy without reciprocity] and caregiver [healthy without reciprocity].

I hope this make sense.

Take care with self-care.

[thankful person]

There is a difference between caretaker and caregiver.  A caregiver will give of themselves unconditionally, like many who are on this forum - and is an emotionally healthy trait.  A caretaker will give of themselves conditionally with an expectation of getting [taking] something in return - generally the love and affection of their disordered individual which becomes unhealthy when there is no reciprocity and becomes codependency.  However, I feel that if there is reciprocity then it is a healthy form of interdependency that NotWendy has described when answering a similar question that she answered to me earlier in this post.

Thanks Salty Dawg, that is incredibly insightful. Before I met my wife I gave and gave so much of myself to everyone and was always left feeling drained from getting nothing back. There’s a quote from the Johnny Depp film “Blow”: “Throughout my lifetime, I've left pieces of my heart here and there. And now, there's almost not enough to stay alive.” That exactly described me. When I first met my wife it felt like I had been looking for her all my life, for someone to finally give something back. That’s what I told my parents in explaining why I was leaving a “happy” “stable” 14 year relationship with a man I loved, for a girl who was seriously struggling with mental illness, 15 years younger than me, and on the other side of the world. In the first couple of months together I deleted all previous friends and acquaintances off Facebook except family, as one may expect can happen in an early bpd relationship. But tbh they barely noticed, despite me clearly being in the middle of a serious personal crisis, my fears that no one had ever cared seemed to be proven. I can’t be bothered with “friends” now, though I did make 3 new friends in the early days of being with my wife, and I ended up blocking their numbers because my wife was so jealous of how quickly and easily I get close to people when they’re “my kind of people”. Now I’m connecting with people on social media and even texting them, though I’m sure the rules would be different were I to want to meet someone for coffee (my wife does this with her friends when she can find them…) My work teaching involves giving a lot of myself too, but it doesn’t drain me nearly as much because I get paid for it ;) But anyway, yes I had wondered whether two caretakers would be a nice fit together and I am inclined to think so…  

[Notwendy]

One thing to keep in mind is that crossing the line into co-dependency is not emotionally healthy caretaking or caregiving. It was 12 steps that showed me that it's not even being nice or caring at all. It's being controlling and inauthentic. When we give in so much to the point of self neglect, it's not an emotionally healthy behavior. When we say "yes" to things we really don't want to do, we are being inauthentic. This is different from being willing. We are willing to do things that we may not want to do, such as clean the house or get up at night to feed a baby, even if we'd rather sleep or do something else.  Co-dependent behaviors are doing things we really don't want to do, but we do them to avoid the other person getting upset at us- we do something with the goal of controlling their feelings- because we can't handle their reaction.

The action itself can be exactly the same. The difference is motivation. Are you doing something because you choose to do it, are willing to do it. Or are you doing it because you are afraid the other person will get upset if you don't.

Caretaking someone's emotions may not be helping them. If we take care of their feelings for them, they don't learn to manage their own feelings. That's not helping them learn.

[SaltyDawg]

NotWendy,

It was 12 steps that showed me that it's not even being nice or caring at all.

Which 12-step program did you use?  Definitely interested in getting this addressed, as of right now, my T and I need to do a deep dive on the last two symptoms before coming up with a strategy on dealing with it.

I agree with it being inauthentic to me.  I have learned how to use the sentence 'no' since this past June, it was my favorite sentence this past July/August when I rediscovered it.


Caretaking someone's emotions may not be helping them. If we take care of their feelings for them, they don't learn to manage their own feelings. That's not helping them learn.

Can you expand on this?  I have manipulated the situation to stop the 0-100 rages with the assistance of her Ts.  I have also manipulated the situation to reduce the amount of her emotional abuse, which naturally eliminated my reactive abuse.  I intend on continuing the reduction of emotional abuse by her on me, our children, and others she interacts with, with the help of her T's.  I shine a light on it, and the T's work with her on address those issues.

Once again, thank you for your awesome comments and insight into this matter.

Take care.

[thankful person]

One thing to keep in mind is that crossing the line into co-dependency is not emotionally healthy caretaking or caregiving.

I used to love the term co-dependent, I recognised it in my relationship with my ex (I think I learnt about it from Dr Phil). But I thought the idea of it was hugely romantic. At the same time I was unhappy about many aspects of the relationship where I didn’t stand up for myself. I felt unneeded and wanted people to need me. I’m over that now. So I think what I’m trying to say is, surely it’s easier for a caretaker type to be emotionally healthy in a relationship if there aren’t ridiculous and unreasonable demands put upon us? Having said that, I am aware that unreasonable demands are also put upon us in all relationships like family and work, and I’ve become better at dealing with that as I’ve got older too. I have definitely come a long way from when our first was born. I used to stay up all night with my wife, it was only her trying to settle the baby as she was breast-feeding (struggling). The main issue was that my work involved driving for several hours every day and I did not feel safe being so exhausted all the time. I tried to ask her permission if I could please go to bed and get some sleep for my own safety, but I was not granted permission. I was not a member of bpd family then and so my whole marriage was a series of incidents I didn’t handle very well. By the time our second was born, (I was now learning in bpd family), as she was on life saving medication, I just went in to give the baby her meds in the night and in the morning. And I remember reflecting that although my wife could be doing it as she was up with the baby, I actually liked to go in and see them and be doing something so important. Again with our third, I just go in to do the last nappy change of the evening which I like to do. Things are so much better even though my wife is very unhappy with our marriage but I focus on being a good mother and piano teacher and enjoying it, and also keeping on top of the housework. My wife doesn’t like me getting pleasure from these things, but I don’t have to be miserable just because she chooses to be.