BPD mom driving dad crazy. He's thinking of separation

[BPDInFamily]

Hi guys,

I don't frequent this forum but have a BPD mother who has exerted a profound impact on my life, mostly negative. It's only after 30 that I've come to greater realization on the severity of the situation and recognized that she is BPD.

After several years of pretty much no contact, I'm feeling better and my life is much better. I just spoke to my father today, and for the first time in our life, he opened up to me in a shocking way, about the abusive ways she's been to him, something that I've always suspected, but after your 65 year old father literally weeps on the phone and speak to you for hours... It's dawned on me how bad it's been for him, much worse than it has been for me..

He's seriously thinking about splitting. I come from an East Asian family where older folks, especially living out here in the Western world, just don't do this type of thing. So I know how much it is bothering him...

The problem is splitting will create a separate plethora of logistic issues for both financially and physically. Neither has
many friends, both are 65.. and they've been together for over 30 years... She would also be worse off because she already relies on my dad to get around and navigate the Western world. Her english is not great... and though no actual illness, isn't in great health...

I'm not sure what to do... wondering other can chime in here. Anything helps.

[Notwendy]

My best guess is that, your Dad won't go through with this.

My father didn't usually speak about my mother to me, but on a rare occasion, he'd just vent and then say he was going to divorce her but he didn't. I think the more likely situation is that, if your father has been in this relationship this long, he vented in the moment to you, but he's not going to do it. Surely he's thought about this before but didn't follow through on it.

My BPD mother is verbally and emotionally abusive. The primary dynamics are between the two in an intimate relationship. Like you, I also assumed maybe BPD mother was worse with me- and she blamed me for her behavior and I thought that maybe when I left home for college, things would be better between my parents. Since I didn't live at home after that, I didn't see the extent of the situation. Eventually I spent more time with them when my father was elderly and ill and realized the dynamics between them.

Although your father's caretaking of your mother may have a cultural explanation, that isn't the main cause of your father doing everything for your mother. It was similar for my parents and there is no cultural or language reason that my mother relied on my father for everyday tasks. I think this is part of why my father would not leave her to fend for herself but also he was a part of the dynamics as much as she is.

Abuse is a cycle. I think your father spoke to you in a low moment, but eventually the cycle returns to your mother being "better", your father buying into a sort of "forgetting".

I think it would help you to read about the Karpman triangle. Your father spoke to you in a low moment, but be careful to not get involved in these triangle dynamics. I also imagined my father was a "victim" in this situation and saw my mother as the "problem" but it was something both participated in. I naively tried to "rescue" my father, and he then aligned with my mother - became rescuer to her and the two of them were angry at me. Surely you care about your father and I did too, but you are not responsible for the dynamics between them. For my parents, the strongest bond was for BPD mother to be in victim position and my father as rescuer, from whatever or whoever was upsetting her in the moment. You can tell your father you care about him, and you love him, but be careful about this triangle dynamic.

If your father wants to divorce, he will take action. This is not your responsibility. This is his . My best guess is that he won't likely do this but if he is going to do it, he himself will figure this out.

[BPDInFamily]

My best guess is that, your Dad won't go through with this.

My father didn't usually speak about my mother to me, but on a rare occasion, he'd just vent and then say he was going to divorce her but he didn't. I think the more likely situation is that, if your father has been in this relationship this long, he vented in the moment to you, but he's not going to do it. Surely he's thought about this before but didn't follow through on it.

My BPD mother is verbally and emotionally abusive. The primary dynamics are between the two in an intimate relationship. Like you, I also assumed maybe BPD mother was worse with me- and she blamed me for her behavior and I thought that maybe when I left home for college, things would be better between my parents. Since I didn't live at home after that, I didn't see the extent of the situation. Eventually I spent more time with them when my father was elderly and ill and realized the dynamics between them.

Although your father's caretaking of your mother may have a cultural explanation, that isn't the main cause of your father doing everything for your mother. It was similar for my parents and there is no cultural or language reason that my mother relied on my father for everyday tasks. I think this is part of why my father would not leave her to fend for herself but also he was a part of the dynamics as much as she is.

Abuse is a cycle. I think your father spoke to you in a low moment, but eventually the cycle returns to your mother being "better", your father buying into a sort of "forgetting".

I think it would help you to read about the Karpman triangle. Your father spoke to you in a low moment, but be careful to not get involved in these triangle dynamics. I also imagined my father was a "victim" in this situation and saw my mother as the "problem" but it was something both participated in. I naively tried to "rescue" my father, and he then aligned with my mother - became rescuer to her and the two of them were angry at me. Surely you care about your father and I did too, but you are not responsible for the dynamics between them. For my parents, the strongest bond was for BPD mother to be in victim position and my father as rescuer, from whatever or whoever was upsetting her in the moment. You can tell your father you care about him, and you love him, but be careful about this triangle dynamic.

If your father wants to divorce, he will take action. This is not your responsibility. This is his . My best guess is that he won't likely do this but if he is going to do it, he himself will figure this out.

Damn... there are times when you read something and it not only resonates with you, but you recognize the real substance in the comments. Thanks so much Notwendy. That's how I see your comments here.

I'm new to all this. I used to think the struggle is just between my mom and I, with my father being a unwitting enabler in the background... but the dynamic has evolved with the candid revelations from my father. I'll have to consider new things. Thank you for sharing the Karpman triangle, never heard of it. Definitely will check it out.

Also, I think the difference between perhaps my situation is that my mom was always better with me than my father. She considers him quite useless because he's just not alpha male enough in the outside world. I've been much more successful in the materialistic aspects of life such as works etc. so she actually pedastalizes me a bit, and displaces all her frustration with me on my father. I simply don't put up with it...

I do care greatly about them... and frankly, my primary concern is my father... I've just let him know that I am here for him.. and will check up on him going forward.

Wondering if I should speak to her though? I think she's brooding because I've not spoken to her in a while, or at least if I did speak with her, she may be in a better mood so as to not put my father through misery all the time. but I'm reluctant to do this...

[Notwendy]

Also, I think the difference between perhaps my situation is that my mom was always better with me than my father. She considers him quite useless because he's just not alpha male enough in the outside world. I've been much more successful in the materialistic aspects of life such as works etc. so she actually pedastalizes me a bit, and displaces all her frustration with me on my father. I simply don't put up with it...

I do care greatly about them... and frankly, my primary concern is my father... I've just let him know that I am here for him.. and will check up on him going forward.

Wondering if I should speak to her though? I think she's brooding because I've not spoken to her in a while, or at least if I did speak with her, she may be in a better mood so as to not put my father through misery all the time. but I'm reluctant to do this...

Like you, growing up with Karpman Triangle dynamics, we've had our own roles which seem normal to us. Of course they do as we don't know any other way to relate to our family members. It's what we grew up with.

What your mother has done is parentify you. You have been her confidant/emotional caretaker rather than a child. I have been in the same situation. I have also stepped in to "spare" my father some of her behavior. We may be adults now but as children, our parents were supposed to protect us, care for us, meet our needs but this is the other way around.

At some point, these roles naturally shift when a parent ages and an adult child steps in to assist them with their physical needs if this is worked out.

But it's your father who chose this relationship and continues to choose it. How far do we step into someone's romantic relationship? In families where there are poor boundaries, this line may be blurred. But really, your father is a grown man, and he's in his own relationship.

Of course we want our parents to know we care about them. But we also have our place in the family. We are their children, not their peer, or confidant and it's not our job to get involved in their private relationship.

[BPDInFamily]

Like you, growing up with Karpman Triangle dynamics, we've had our own roles which seem normal to us. Of course they do as we don't know any other way to relate to our family members. It's what we grew up with.

What your mother has done is parentify you. You have been her confidant/emotional caretaker rather than a child. I have been in the same situation. I have also stepped in to "spare" my father some of her behavior. We may be adults now but as children, our parents were supposed to protect us, care for us, meet our needs but this is the other way around.

At some point, these roles naturally shift when a parent ages and an adult child steps in to assist them with their physical needs if this is worked out.

But it's your father who chose this relationship and continues to choose it. How far do we step into someone's romantic relationship? In families where there are poor boundaries, this line may be blurred. But really, your father is a grown man, and he's in his own relationship.

Of course we want our parents to know we care about them. But we also have our place in the family. We are their children, not their peer, or confidant and it's not our job to get involved in their private relationship.

Beautifully said again. and my response didn't even mention that she parentifies me... but that's exactly what she's done... so I'm again kind of blown by how you just came to that conclusion, accurately, but also almost non-chalantly to me...

[Notwendy]

Beautifully said again. and my response didn't even mention that she parentifies me... but that's exactly what she's done... so I'm again kind of blown by how you just came to that conclusion, accurately, but also almost non-chalantly to me...

While each pwBPD is an individual and it's a spectrum, it's interesting how similar the family dynamics are.

When one person in a family has a disorder, or an addiction, the other family members take on certain roles- which in a way helps the whole family achieve some kind of balance. My father's role was rescuer/codependent. I learned that the way to get approval from my parents was to be co-dependent as well. BPD mother would confide in me. Sometimes I would try to "rescue" my father in some manner.

It's a way we managed to function in our families but we also were kids, being put in adult roles.

[Couscous]

If your mother has had you on a pedestal then this is a red flag for a phenomenon known as emotional incest, which is an even more problematic than parentification, and is something that has far reaching effects on your life and relationships. If you are interested in investigating this, here’s an article about it: https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/was-part-your-childhood-deprived-emotional-incest

[BPDInFamily]

If your mother has had you on a pedestal then this is a red flag for a phenomenon known as emotional incest, which is an even more problematic than parentification, and is something that has far reaching effects on your life and relationships. If you are interested in investigating this, here’s an article about it: https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/was-part-your-childhood-deprived-emotional-incest

YES! I became aware of this terminology a few years ago in the thicket of covid when we had another fight. I'd just turn 30 and had been devastated by a layoff after getting a great job. Yet when I mustered up the will to still visit my parents, I was mulled by the constant nagging and criticisms. I eventually stayed with them for 40 days, and just couldn't take it anymore... I left and was then looking for a job and while dealing from the emotional impacts that I felt again as a child... During this time, I learned about NPD first, (some symptoms she had), then that segued into the discovery of BPD and BINGO. That's her.

The emotional incest thing... I never wanted to mention it... but that's absolutely it... I was her little husband, from teenage years... It felt gross because she would be essentially marginalizing my father of his right role as the husband. I don't want to do that to my father, and my resistance toward her in my teenage years when I lived at home always stemmed from wanting to not be involved with her in that kind of intimate manner, which she foists upon me.

I remember she taking me out to McDonalds when i was around 7 or 9 and telling me what kind of men she was into, and how my father wasn't the kind of man he's into... She confided in me these type of things that even back then, I felt was a little unusual that a mother would tell her son. but as I got older, especially after puberty and came back from college, the ideation I felt from her actually grew, as she became more discontend with my father and I became more mature. It's kind of gross. She never said anything overtly sexual to me, but the vibe was still a little off... when I lived at home (left home at 17), and even subsequently came home to visit, after a while of being with her, I used to get this sense of being violated...

and sometimes even into my mid 20s she would touch me uninvitingly. I would freak out, and she would then get upset, about how I push her away...

My father just doesn't see any of this.. but I've always been a traditional and faithful person who subscribed to family roles in a traditional way, and I would never betray my father by allowing her to develop emotional intimacy in the manner she really wants... which I find unsettling as well...  

I should also say that based on interaction with women, I think I'm a pretty attractive guy. 6 figures, fit, good looking face (though on the shorter side). It's not difficult for me to catch the attention of women... but I'm also 33, and have never been in a romantic relationship... I've never even been on a date... I was always afraid of women... Not hateful or anything, just afraid of them... and I justify not doing anything in that realm of my life because I want to quarantine myself from women, lest I hurt them because I'm such a PLEASE READing mess. Yet now that I've looked back, women have always been receptive to me. In the workplace and in social settings.

Since I went pretty much no contact with her 3 years ago, I have much better relationship with women in my life. I no longer feel a strong defensive mechanism / aversion toward women. I feel like my perception that they are monsters that could hurt me is dissolving... I actually enjoy interacting with women... but still very trepidatious about being in a relationship. But I push myself to go out twice a week. To meet ups, climbing events, network events etc. so that I expose myself to socializing with others, and socializing with women...