How to tell if your pwBPD lacks object permenance?

[capecodling]

So my most recent BPDex just broke NC and we have been chatting a bit.  I won’t lie, its hard not to fall back into our old pattern, but for the time I have moved far enough away that actually meeting up in person is not a danger.  One thing I wasn’t ever convinced of her was that she seemed not to lack object permenance.  She didn’t ever strike me as the cheating type or to have the “out of sight not in love” characteristics.  She definitely did love bombing and light devaluation and definitely 1000% has borderline traits, but to me the object impermanence is not there.  Is there a good way to tell?  To me this is the scariest of all the BPD traits so I’d like to see if I can identify that in her.  My other two BPD exes definitely had it, one even cheated and told me about it without any remorse at all.  

[OKrunch]

You're back to being involved, and the rose colored lenses will make you see what you want to see, or rather not see what you don't want to see.

My Ex didn't technically cheat on me, but both times we've split up, she's immediately had someone ready as a backup.

How long have you two been talking again?
How long were you out of touch?

[capecodling]

You're back to being involved, and the rose colored lenses will make you see what you want to see, or rather not see what you don't want to see.

My Ex didn't technically cheat on me, but both times we've split up, she's immediately had someone ready as a backup.

How long have you two been talking again?
How long were you out of touch?

5 months since split.  3 months NC, then a brief text exchange followed by 2 more months NC this time the text exchange has gone on 2 full days.  I think you are right about rose colored glasses to an extent, but from the beginning I have suspected she has borderline tendencies and didn’t know if she would diagnose as a full BPD or not.

[Couscous]

A couple of thoughts.

1. It’s not actually possible for another person to break no contact; only we can break no contact. No contact is something we do, unilaterally, and no cooperation from the pwBPD is required. If you haven’t blocked her on every social media platform and changed your phone number, then perhaps you might want to consider doing that before you get sucked back in.

2. It doesn’t matter whether or not she lacks object permanence, or if she whether or not she would be diagnosable, because even if she “merely” has traits, this is enough to disqualify her as a (healthy) romantic partner.

Like Ulysses, we need to tie ourselves to the mast so we can resist the siren call.

[MeandThee29]

Yes, let it go. It isn't your job to figure that out.

It can also manifest in various ways, according to my therapist. Mine was a marriage of several decades, and my ex was the one who abandoned me and went far away. For him, the object permanence manifested in viewing me as an object without my own feelings and beliefs.

Just no. I refused reconciliation, and my ex kicked off the divorce that had to be.

[capecodling]

A couple of thoughts.

1. It’s not actually possible for another person to break no contact; only we can break no contact. No contact is something we do, unilaterally, and no cooperation from the pwBPD is required. If you haven’t blocked her on every social media platform and changed your phone number, then perhaps you might want to consider doing that before you get sucked back in.

2. It doesn’t matter whether or not she lacks object permanence, or if she whether or not she would be diagnosable, because even if she “merely” has traits, this is enough to disqualify her as a (healthy) romantic partner.

Like Ulysses, we need to tie ourselves to the mast so we can resist the siren call.

I keep thinking back to all the BPD traits she exhibited before and wondering why I haven’t blocked her completely like you said, though I disagree somewhat that it is impossible for another person to break no contact — that’s victim blaming.   If you put up a clear boundary and I contact you despite that you’ve told me not to, that’s on me.  The BPD is to blame.  But I do agree we have to take responsibility too, knowing their true nature (unable to respect boundaries) and deal with them harshly when they breach out boundaries instead of permitting it.

[capecodling]

Yes, let it go. It isn't your job to figure that out.

It can also manifest in various ways, according to my therapist. Mine was a marriage of several decades, and my ex was the one who abandoned me and went far away. For him, the object permanence manifested in viewing me as an object without my own feelings and beliefs.

Just no. I refused reconciliation, and my ex kicked off the divorce that had to be.

Well, I’m sorry your situation ended so painfully, as most do.  I have an ex from quite a while ago who had been diagnosed as “having some borderline tendencies” she had object permanence, was loyal and didn’t cheat, her main problems were: extreme clinginess, fear of abandonment, dissociations, and trouble focussing.  Even though the relationship with her was not easy, it was far from the nightmare that a lot of us have experienced on here.  It could have functioned I just wasn’t at that point ready to go to couples therapy or put in that kind of work.

With this most recent ex who contacted me, I don’t know if she falls into the “borderline light” category described above or if she would start out that way and then turn into the nightmare type of borderline.   My gut feeing is that she isn’t a super crazy BPD but the tendencies she does have would still be too much work and would make me miserable in the long term.  

I guess the problem for me is that when a romantic partner is too overtly crazy / too over-the-top with initial love-bombing my defenses go up and I’m not vulnerable to those ones.  Its the stealthier, better hidden ones who fly in under the radar and get to me.  

Does anyone else relate to that?

[SinisterComplex]

A couple of thoughts.

1. It’s not actually possible for another person to break no contact; only we can break no contact. No contact is something we do, unilaterally, and no cooperation from the pwBPD is required. If you haven’t blocked her on every social media platform and changed your phone number, then perhaps you might want to consider doing that before you get sucked back in.

2. It doesn’t matter whether or not she lacks object permanence, or if she whether or not she would be diagnosable, because even if she “merely” has traits, this is enough to disqualify her as a (healthy) romantic partner.

Like Ulysses, we need to tie ourselves to the mast so we can resist the siren call.

I agree here...you only break no contact if you want it so, unless you are being stalked, etc. It is easy to disappear and not speak to someone...you just do it. Now the act of it is easy, but the emotional process behind the decision to move forward...that therein lies the troublesome part for most. The best course of action is to always DO YOU. What is in your best interests? It does not matter what anyone else thinks.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Couscous]

If you put up a clear boundary and I contact you despite that you’ve told me not to, that’s on me.

Right, but we can’t actually control what other people do. PwBPD have impulse control issues and normally do not possess the self-control needed to respect other people’s boundaries. They may strategically refrain from contact for a period of time but this doesn’t mean that they are doing this out of respect for your boundary. All it means is that they are playing a game, and will eventually reach out to try to hook you back in.

The hard truth is that because someone contacts us doesn’t mean we have to respond. Even if they show up on our door step we can choose to not open the door, or if they call from a phone number we don’t recognize, we can hang up as soon as we realize who is calling. I’m not saying that doing any of these things is easy, but we always have a choice in how we respond to another person’s behavior.

The unfortunate reality is that we cannot control what the others do, so we have to do what we can do, which usually is to rip the bandaid off and block them. I understand if this might feel impossible for you right now, and if so I would encourage you to get some support for this, for example, by attending Twelve Step or SMART recovery meetings. I wish you all the best.

[capecodling]

I really appreciate all the feedback from everyone, Sinister, OKcrunch, Couscous, MeandThee, and I think you are generally right, I probably made a mistake by reengaging with her.  

Something interesting has happened, I will keep this thread updated with the results of what happens:  I had been talking to another woman, one with good mental health, she talks to me like an ordinary person without constantly love-bombing like my ex.  We share ideas, pictures from trips we’ve been on, and activities we like to do for fun, and talk about ideas..  She’s much more well adjusted, healthier, and far more beautiful than my BPDex.  

At the same time I have my ex sending all sorts of needy messages and unspecific declarations of love that could apply to anybody (I miss you so much, I think about you so much, etc).  The contrast is allowing me for the first time to really step outside of the love-bombing fog and see it for what it is.   After she love-bombed me today it felt so … unnatural … I wanted to get away from it.  I can actually see, for the first time, the obvious trauma bond I allowed to be built with her.  Anyhow,   I am rooting for myself to make the smart decision and go with the healthy girl.  I’ll update this thread either way.

My ex is a non-cheating BPD waif who somehow chose me as her “favorite person” she’s very lost and like a scared little girl —- and has proven very dangerous to my mental heath in the past, but I was also less well when i dealt with her.  Anyhow, I’m not defending her just explaining the type I am vulnerable to. 

[Don Gato]

    I would caution assuming a Cluster B disordered person is not capable of hiding things from you.
Borderlines are emotional, and generally very needy, but
they can also dissociate at the drop of a dime and do things behind your back you would not believe. I tell everyone willing to listen to not be fooled by an "empathic" BPD person's innocent charms. Because the disorder has high comorbidity rates with other CB disorders, most notably NPD, and in my personal opinion that combo is the most destructive in relationships. It's basically a hybrid of a highly volatile, emotional person with extremely low cognitive empathy. They are the ones who can just leave one day for another person and give no closure. I have my own theory that most of the Borderline rapid discard/trauma bond horror stories you read about online are a result of these dangerous BPD/NPD hybrids.