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« on: March 10, 2023, 07:24:47 AM »

I'm playing a board game online, a logical game kind of like chess. I'm doing good on an international level and would want to play in live tournaments. My wife hates this game and she thinks that playing online games against other humans is like cheating, because it's an act of intimacy I guess(?), and that it's also very immature for a grown up.

There is a big international live tournament in my country this spring but it would take me two whole days away from the family. Is it reasonable to go? I would try to set up my wife and the boys with her parents before leaving. I haven't told her about the tournament yet.

I'm literally sneaking around with my phone playing a board game at this point, if she comes near me I switch to another app on the phone, that's weird right? But she found out about me playing one time and she felt SUPER betrayed! I'm sure she thinks I have stopped playing now. So she will feel betrayed once again when I say I want to go to the tournament. That doesn't concern me much though, I'm quite self assured knowing online gaming is not cheating.

This game is taking up all my attention now for a few months, so it's like leading a double life. Don't know if it's healthy for a person like me to play a game like that, BUT, the thing is, I played this game a lot when I was a teenager before I met my wife, so in a way it feels like I have found a part of myself again.

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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2023, 01:32:09 PM »

My first thought was that BPD perceptions, whether diagnosed or not,  are just that - perceptions.  It is not reality-based thinking.  You could take "gaming" out of the sentence and insert any variety of other complaint or demand and it would fit for a pwBPD's behavior.  Overreacting to whatever.

However, this is a trigger for her.  Recognizing that, would stopping your game at this point fix the complaint?  Or... would other complaints then surge to the surface (in her perceptions) in place of this?  With BPD, changing one's behaviors (or relaxing your boundary of appropriate me time) doesn't resolve much in the log term, other complaints will surely rise as the complaints of the week or month.

I'm literally sneaking around with my phone playing a board game at this point...This game is taking up all my attention now for a few months, so it's like leading a double life.

Is this something that is taking significant time away from your spouse or your children or your work?  Is this just a hobby or a means for you to "escape" the home environment?  What is more important to you?  On the flip side... Can you offer her a few days away for herself, so you both get some time apart?

I repeat kindly, whatever has triggered her so much has underlying issues.  Whether they are valid or not, it's your decision, knowing that appeasing will likely just enable other complaints to surge to the fore.
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2023, 02:33:19 PM »

I also think there's two different issues here- your wife's perception and your gaming addiction.

About your wife's part, she doesn't like you playing games online.  Her reasoning isn't sound, but she still doesn't like it and you're sneaking around to avoid making her mad.  That's a big problem because you shouldn't hide anything from your wife (and she shouldn't hide anything from you). 

Are you not telling her to avoid the conflict?  If so, that's a pretty big red flag in itself.

The other part, you mentioned that the game is taking all of your attention for the past few months.  That's not healthy- your wife and kids (if you have kids) should always come first.  You need to find a balance and for that reason, I'd say that you probably shouldn't go to the tournament.
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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2023, 10:07:19 AM »

Anything can be either an addiction or not one.  Someone taking pain medicine for a few days after surgery and then stopping is not an addiction but someone taking them long term will be. Having a drink at a party is different from being an alcoholic. Gambling for fun on a Las Vegas trip is different from gambling addiction. Playing video games for fun is different from game addiction. It's not the substance or the activity. It's the behavior of the person and their reasons for doing so that determines if it is an addiction or not.

On aspect of any addiction is that it is an escape from a painful situation or feelings. The other is denial. People assume they can control their addiction when they can't.

Your focus is still on your wife and her feelings. So far, she hasn't liked a lot of things- not the movies you watch, or the books you read, or even old girlfriends from years ago before you met her. I don't think it's a surprise she doesn't like your gaming.

To know if you are addicted or not, you would need to be honest with yourself. If you can't stop gaming, or resist playing games, that's a clue that you probably are.
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2023, 06:02:23 AM »

I have thought about this since I wrote here last. I don't think the board game is an addiction, not more than any other dopamine rush addiction at least. I'm not spending less time with family because of it, but if I do check my ongoing games when my kids are around I will be more distant than if I'm keep the phone in my pocket. It's not worse than checking social media to be honest. I have limited checking my games at work to the very end of the work day for the last week and a half, and I have not had any trouble doing so. Playing too much can cause you to tilt, but I'm learning to avoid that simply by paying attention to my feelings. I can't change who I am, when I get interested in something, it tends to get a little intense, but I'm learning to set limits for myself to not let hobbies take over, and for the moment, I have found a satisfying balance. Right now I feel that the only problem is that my wife doesn't accept my hobby, it's not the first hobby she doesn't approve of. If anything, it provides a reality check of how impossible it is to live with her.


The game also has a social aspect, there is a sense of community in it, I joined an active and warm hearted whatsapp group with people from all around the world playing the game, kind of like this place. Going to the tournament would be a way to connect with this community in real life, as well as an exciting experience, since I really love competitions and all sorts of social events. My wife not wanting me to go is about her fear of abandonment. Missing the tournament would be like missing out on life.


I did tell her about the tournament last night, sort of like a long term strategy to let her get used to the idea of me going. I simply told her that there is a tournament this spring, and that I'm interested in going. She did dysregulate but I didn't loose my temper although she had some insane emotional arguments and verbal attacks. I managed to keep my mood light and use a little humor and positivity to not let negativity take over this whole subject. But she was hurt, felt betrayed, felt that I should be more careful about causing her stress when I know how much she suffers, but most of all she feels powerless as she feels that I will go to the tournament no matter what she says (victim thinking, as this isn't even true, if she doesn't regulate I don't see how I could go). She also literally said that this hobby died when I met her and that continuing with it is immature a.s.o., another way of saying that who I was when I met her is dead. And a lot of other strange arguments, for example economic reasons (this comes from the woman who just spent the winter season buying several bottles of perfume to both of us and later throwing every bottle she just bought except one because she is convinced that the products are counterfeit.).

She ended the night, just before I fell asleep, with complaining about another one of my hobbies. She complained about me regularly stopping by the local library after work, to pick up books I have reserved online, and not give her the chance to do so too. We do go to the library every other month, and the library is only a few blocks away from our home. She could easily go there during the day with our 3yo, but for some reason she can't, there's something in her that prevents her from planning to do things like that if it doesn't involve me helping her to do it (there are exceptions but not often). We have the same conditions, but she sees obstacles where I see opportunities.
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« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2023, 02:55:09 AM »

Hi,

the tournament I would like to go to is nine days from now. We are fighting about it and I'm kind of panicking about missing this opportunity. Frankly I don't care if she'd be mad at me for going.

W has informed me that she is "saying no" to me going. According to her it has nothing to do with the care of the kids, but for me it's all about them. If we hadn't any children together I would simply go against her wishes.

W and the kids could easily go to her parents for the weekend, and I could take one or two extra days off from work to extend the weekend a bit.

I could call her bluff and book the the tournament, tell her that I can help set her and the boys up with her parents. If she doesn't accept my help, I go and leave her alone with the kids. It wouldn't feel ideal for me, I would rather leave in peace. But staying home because she's saying no doesn't seem healthy... and I would be cooking with rage the whole weekend. What would you do?

According to her she's saying no to me going because she has never said no to anything before, now she's saying no and she thinks that this will help the relationship move forward in a positive direction. What?

My view is that in a relationship you should help each other to do things that makes you happy and excited. I would happily help my partner with such things. This is making me so frustrated. It's not the first time she's trying to stop me from doing something that makes me excited, but countless times I haven't even tried to suggest things, if someone has asked me "do you want to go [insert exciting opportunity] next weekend?" I have simply made up excuses to not go! Should this opportunity become one more of those things? I can't see how this could be a question of equality in child care. Sure, she is a stay at home mom and spends a lot of time with the kids, but that is by choice.
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« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2023, 05:36:44 AM »

You are thinking about this logically and it doesn't make sense, because (from my own experience this is how it seems)- the actual reason is emotional and the given reason isn't the actual reason (maybe out of fear that the emotional reason won't work). So when you address the reason given, it doesn't really work because it's not the actual reason for the request.

None of us can read minds so we don't know, but it's often a fear and/or wanting control, but there is one thing we do know ( because she said it) is that she doesn't want you to go. .

I also have learned that if something is important to you, do not put an aspect of that in the control of an unreliable person. What is important to you? To go to this event. What do you need in order for you to go? reliable child care.

Putting this in her hands gives her some leverage over whether you can go to the event or not. The idea of asking her parents, if they are reliable, is a good one.

Stop engaging in these discussions about relationships and so on, or the first time she has said no. It's irrational and it won't lead to any resolution. And do not propose that choosing to spend time with the kids as her choice is a reason she should do this over the weekend. It won't be effective.

If you were a single father, and wanted to take this trip, you would need to arrange child care. That's the only way you'd be able to go. Including her in this, expecting her to do this for you is putting your trip possibility in her hands. That may make logical sense to you but to her, she's acting on feelings.
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« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2023, 11:46:09 AM »

She is shrinking your world and your life to a tiny, controlled place. You are ceding far too much power to her. She now doesn't need to say no -- you are self-editing and self-limiting your life based on your fear of her anger.

Contact her parents and tell them of your plans. Go to the convention. She will either accept help from her parents or not.
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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2023, 02:11:59 PM »

And beware the last minute sabotage.  She will become sick, or the kids will become sick, or some other impending disaster will strike wherein you will be pressured to recant under dire threats that will of course be "all your fault".

The others' suggestions are wise, involve the in-laws so there is safe and reasonable care for the kids.
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« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2023, 06:34:41 AM »

Thank you all for your replies, this is really helpful advice.

I somehow feel I should tell her first about my plans to involve her parents. To give her the chance to do it herself. Or should I stop trying to do the right thing because it is too connected to logic which doesn't work with her?

My plan:
Day 1: I leave early in the morning. Parents-in-law picks up the kids and W around noon.
Day 2: I'll be back late but not too late to take everyone home for the night.
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« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2023, 07:20:46 AM »

I don't wish to be pessimistic, but I don't see that there's any "best" way to influence how your wife will respond. We can't really control someone else's behaviors. Walking on eggshells is one way to do that but also considering "what is the right way to do something this other person doesn't want us to do, and minimize their reaction" is also seeking to do that.

There were a couple times that we tried to "rescue" Dad in such situations, intervene on his behalf, or do something and worry about how to tell BPD mother. She was going to react however she reacts.

This is just one incident in a number of issues- your work, your ex GF at your kids' school, her abusive behavior. Understandably, you want to go to this event and you need her cooperation because someone has to watch the kids in order for you to go. This isn't a cooperative situation- she doesn't want you to go. As FD mentioned, there are other ways that she can interfere with this.

Involving her parents makes sense if they are reliable caretakers for the kids. Involving them behind her back puts them in a difficult position. Now you have a triangle and if the two of you align, it puts her into victim mode. Discussing this with her also could create a situation where she aligns with her parents.
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« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2023, 03:04:35 AM »

I think I played my cards badly here. I've told her I've decided to go but she still says no and doesn't seem to intend to go to her parents or let the kids go to them. Which means if i go I'll leave the three of them at home for two whole days. If it isn't a bluff and she calls her parents as soon as I leave on Saturday morning. I haven't asked her parents yet either, i figured she will not accept that offer either way. Of course i could arrange it so that everything is ready if she accepts it.

So, either i go and leave everything to her decision or i stay home and sulk all weekend... And plan my escape from this relationship as soon as possible.

I'm totally lost in my thoughts about this and am afraid I'm not seeing this clearly at all at this point. Would i not have children together with her, it would be easy. Leaving here mad at me alone with the kids for two whole days .. makes me uneasy although she'd probably be extra good to them to make me seem bad
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« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2023, 05:40:34 AM »

This isn't about playing your cards right- because an emotionally healthy relationship should not be about trying to come up with the right angle or move to get what one wants. In an emotionally healthy and mutual relationship- each person should be able to communicate their wishes and be accommodating when reasonable or possible.

This situation was a losing game to begin with because, in your family, your wife holds the power and also the winning card- who will watch the children. This isn't just her doing- you are the parent too. Whenever children are involved, our first responsibility is to them. In order to do something else, we first have to secure reliable and safe child care. It's also possible that we may have to change our plans. I can recall many times where I had to turn down a trip, or not come to work, because a child may have gotten a fever ( and can't attend school or child care) or the sitter was not able to come.  This is not the fault of the children or your wife- it's the responsibility of being a parent.

This is what I meant by- if a major part of your plans depends on your wife, then she will control her part in that.
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« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2023, 05:52:30 AM »

Still, it would be the same if I moved out. She will be alone with the children on a regular basis, not just two days. What's the difference between that and this?
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« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2023, 06:13:03 AM »

I think that is a dilemma in any divorce decision and hopefully some posters will share their experiences about that. If she is a stay at home parent, then the kids are with her a lot of the time already. If you feel they are safe with her, then it isn't an issue for you to leave them with her.

The issue is- you want to go do something fun and need her cooperation. She doesn't want you to go and so, won't cooperate. If you think the kids will be OK with her if you go, then that's a choice you have. If you are uncertain if they will be, then it isn't a choice. Which also raises the question- are they safe with her at all?

This gaming trip is just one situation in many- the dynamics between you and your wife are the main issue.
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« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2023, 06:54:31 AM »

Yes I guess you put it quite clearly... In any case, if we separate, to begin with she will have the kids 50/50 so alone time with her and the kids will happen, so in a way this weekend could serve as a way to see how things would work out if I decided to move out. Seems inevitable either way. I know the kids would be fine with her, she isn't a terrible mother to young kids.
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« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2023, 12:49:24 PM »

Still, it would be the same if I moved out. She will be alone with the children on a regular basis, not just two days. What's the difference between that and this?

One difference is that she's playing brinkmanship*, a type of threat that if you don't do as demanded then there will be big consequences.  And it will be all your fault.  (See the guilt trip tactic? ... "You made me do it!")

* Brinkmanship (or brinksmanship) is the practice of trying to achieve an advantageous outcome by pushing dangerous events to the brink of active conflict. The maneuver of pushing a situation with the opponent to the brink succeeds by forcing the opponent to back down and make concessions rather than risk engaging in a conflict that would no longer be beneficial to either side. That might be achieved through diplomatic maneuvers, by creating the impression that one is willing to use extreme methods rather than concede. The tactic occurs in ... terrorism, and high-stakes litigation.

My circumstances were that I went to work five days a week nearly an hour away.  That was 10-12 hours all weekdays.  Add to that she'd ask me to do much of the grocery shopping.  So really I was already apart a large part of our child's life with my spouse caring for my preschooler (his age when she ended up imploding our marriage).  So ending our adult relationship was not quite as bad as I feared.  It was as though I didn't lose, I simply exchanged one scenario for another, I just wasn't confident peeking through the doorway.

Yes, my county disappointed me when I was relegated to alternate weekends and a three hour evening in between, but my spouse had made life with her impossible.

I viewed it a big change but not as bad as the contemplation of it had scared me.  Life did not end.  Court guaranteed me time with my son.  I lived with alternate weekends for two years before the final decree set it at 50/50.

So if you can get 50/50 from your first time in family court (try for even a little more than that based on her history but 50/50 can be your fallback boundary) then you'll be way ahead of where I started.

Also, our in-depth Custody Evaluator was a child psychologist and the 50/50 schedule he recommended for young children was one with frequent exchanges (2-2-3) where one parent gets Mon-Tue overnights, the other parent gets Wed-Thu overnights and the parents alternated Fri-Sat-Sun overnights.  That way the child is not apart from you for more than 2 or 3 days.  Interestingly, his initial recommendation was for us to attempt equal time schedule, he wrote if it failed then I should get custody.  It did fail and with difficulty I get get custody a couple years later.

Biggest of all, I felt relief that my life was calmer and normal.  My son noticed too even though he was still just 3 years old.  I recall when we first separated he was with me for about week.  I felt I had to be fair about his mother's absence.  We were making something, probably cookie batter, when I mentioned her, but that dear kids took my hands and put them back with the batter.  He redirected me!  Neither of us mentioned her until she was released and found herself a place to temporarily live.  Still, he begged to stay with me when I told him we were going to meet her.  He sensed where the peace and calm was and made sure I knew.  I never knew how loud silence was.

That said, if you do decide to go I suggest you find a way to let it be known to her family that you'll be away for a couple days.  If they're alert to her problematic patterns, they ought to keep an eye and ear open while you're away.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2023, 01:13:44 PM by ForeverDad » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2023, 07:20:38 AM »

Just for the record, I didn't go to the event.

Thanks for all the good advice and support.
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« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2023, 07:24:52 AM »

Biggest of all, I felt relief that my life was calmer and normal.  My son noticed too even though he was still just 3 years old.  I recall when we first separated he was with me for about week.  I felt I had to be fair about his mother's absence.  We were making something, probably cookie batter, when I mentioned her, but that dear kids took my hands and put them back with the batter.  He redirected me!  Neither of us mentioned her until she was released and found herself a place to temporarily live.  Still, he begged to stay with me when I told him we were going to meet her.  He sensed where the peace and calm was and made sure I knew.  I never knew how loud silence was.

I feel stuck, would love to get out but I'm so exhausted by the situation and I can't even think of a final decision and feel self assured by it for more than a few hours.
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« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2023, 01:32:14 PM »

You might look at it as a small win: you're playing the board game even though she says no. This means you're taking care of yourself, not allowing yourself to have your world made small (to GaGrl's point).

If appropriate, let her know you're going to continue, and that you'll do your best to limit ways in which it cuts into your time with her and the kids. You cannot promise anything, and meanwhile you'll do your best.

If she accuses you of being immature, why not say "Am I? I guess maybe that's true. I'm a big kid. I like how fun this game is." Who cares whether it's silly or not, you like it.

Your kids are going to get older. It could be that going to tournaments becomes safer as they grow up, whether it's the ability to call 911 or a neighbor. You might ask your parents to check on them, or by then you might be living separately and there's a schedule in place that frees you up. 

It's not uncommon to have less freedom to do stuff when the kids are young. Having a controlling BPD spouse makes getting away even harder.

You were hoping she might give consent or agree to solutions you found tolerable. That isn't going to happen. She's not reasonable and probably won't change any time soon. All of your solutions have to take that into account.
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« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2023, 03:01:06 AM »

You might look at it as a small win: you're playing the board game even though she says no. This means you're taking care of yourself, not allowing yourself to have your world made small (to GaGrl's point).

If appropriate, let her know you're going to continue, and that you'll do your best to limit ways in which it cuts into your time with her and the kids. You cannot promise anything, and meanwhile you'll do your best.

If she accuses you of being immature, why not say "Am I? I guess maybe that's true. I'm a big kid. I like how fun this game is." Who cares whether it's silly or not, you like it.

Your kids are going to get older. It could be that going to tournaments becomes safer as they grow up, whether it's the ability to call 911 or a neighbor. You might ask your parents to check on them, or by then you might be living separately and there's a schedule in place that frees you up. 

It's not uncommon to have less freedom to do stuff when the kids are young. Having a controlling BPD spouse makes getting away even harder.

You were hoping she might give consent or agree to solutions you found tolerable. That isn't going to happen. She's not reasonable and probably won't change any time soon. All of your solutions have to take that into account.

This is a nice overview, thanks Way to go! (click to insert in post)

I'll end this thread and I'll start another topic soon... Smiling (click to insert in post)  Sorry in advance  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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