I’m my mother-in-laws punching bag and I’m exhausted

[ExhaustedDIL]

Thank you for this community.

After being shouted at by my MIL last week over essentially nothing, I picked up “Stop walking on eggshells” and realized this is likely what my MIL suffers from.

I feel like I take the brunt of her outbursts. Her entire identity is connected to being a caretaker and she started attacking me after I had children of my own. I have to be very careful about what I say about taking care of my children less she take it the wrong way and perceive it as a personal attack. When she feels her role as a caregiver is under threat, she lapses into the role of victim. No one appreciates her enough. No one loves her enough for all she does for the family. Everyone is taking advantage of her. She is always ready to burn everything to the ground instead of take responsibility for her own behaviour.

What makes this situation most difficult is she is actually married to a psychiatrist who is afraid to confront her because she threatens him with divorce if he does.

[Couscous]

Thank you for this community.

After being shouted at by my MIL last week over essentially nothing, I picked up “Stop walking on eggshells” and realized this is likely what my MIL suffers from.

I feel like I take the brunt of her outbursts. Her entire identity is connected to being a caretaker and she started attacking me after I had children of my own. I have to be very careful about what I say about taking care of my children less she take it the wrong way and perceive it as a personal attack. When she feels her role as a caregiver is under threat, she lapses into the role of victim. No one appreciates her enough. No one loves her enough for all she does for the family. Everyone is taking advantage of her. She is always ready to burn everything to the ground instead of take responsibility for her own behaviour.

What makes this situation most difficult is she is actually married to a psychiatrist who is afraid to confront her because she threatens him with divorce if he does.

What does your husband do to run interference with his mother and shield you from her aggression?

[ExhaustedDIL]

My husband stepped in and began arguing with his mother and I walked away and went for a run. My husband butts heads with her a lot too. He’s very persistent and logical and he wears his mother down by demanding a logical explanation for her behaviour. She eventually retreats into a room to get away from his questioning.

[Notwendy]

I am glad your H steps in. It's his mother and so this is a triangle situation and if your H was afraid to, or not willing to have boundaries with his mother,  it would be difficult for you to do that.

I have not seen anyone take that approach with their BPD mother. If I were to do that, she'd enlist my father as her "rescuer" and the two of them would align in anger at me.

It's good that you got a chance to go for a run. Self care is key in these situations- and disengaging from the drama is also a helpful approach.

It's unlikely that your H's confrontation will change her though. (it's unlikely anything we do can change another person). It will get her to retreat for the moment, but she will be in victim mode ( where she may be in general) and not learn from the encounter. I try not to get angry at my mother but the few times I do, she does retreat, but then it seems she also does something to be hurtful in return. It stops the drama in the moment, but not the dynamics.

I think it would help to have a talk with your H on boundaries. Boundaries are not something we put on someone else. It's our response to their behavior according to our values. It may be that your values are to have some sort of contact with your in laws - so how can you do this while minimizing the drama? One idea might be to have less frequent contact with them, or contact in certain situations such as having dinner in a restaurant where she's more likely to behave better. You don't have to state the boundary with them, in fact, it seems better to not say anything to her or she'll just react as if she was attacked, and just change your schedule of availability or where to meet up.

You don't have to tolerate how she treats you. If she does start criticizing you, exit the conversation " excuse me but I need to use the ladies' room" or something like that "I need to go check on the chicken in the oven" and just disengage. Not responding to her drama can help. Also don't take it personally. It's her own projections. For me, I substitute something like "you are a pink elephant" in my thoughts if being accused. You know you aren't one and her saying so doesn't make you one. Her accusations are just as irrelevant and the less you can react, the less impact they have. If she starts an outburst with you, go silent, leave the conversation.

It can take a while to practice it and also for her to get the message that you won't participate in her drama. It won't be perfect either- there are times where you might react emotionally, but with practice you can get better at it. I recall the first time I tried this. BPD mother started to get on my case about something. I was at her house. I said "I think I need to go home now, talk to you later" and walked out the door. She was a bit surprised. I didn't usually do that.

I think it would help if you and your H had a united plan with her and so discussing what the two of you are most comfortable with might help.

[ExhaustedDIL]

Thank you. This is excellent advice. Knowing that she has this disorder has shifted my perspective to not taking it personally. I knew it wasn’t me causing the outbursts - she does this to her other DIL and has destroyed friendships with this behaviour - but it’s hard for me not to be triggered and argue back. I have a need to be right but walking away and giving the message that I won’t participate in the drama is good advice. And yes, she will stew and act in a passive aggressive way after that.

Last week’s incident occurred in her home. She lives in a different city so we were staying with her. I told my husband I will be limiting my time staying with them in the future. I had already set some boundaries in that regard but now I think I need to tighten them further. If my husband wants to go visit them with our kids, my plan is to claim I need the time to pursue a project at home rather than say I’m just trying to avoid her. I’ll show up for Christmas but I’d like to keep the visits much shorter in the future.

[Couscous]

Last week’s incident occurred in her home. She lives in a different city so we were staying with her. I told my husband I will be limiting my time staying with them in the future. I had already set some boundaries in that regard but now I think I need to tighten them further. If my husband wants to go visit them with our kids, my plan is to claim I need the time to pursue a project at home rather than say I’m just trying to avoid her. I’ll show up for Christmas but I’d like to keep the visits much shorter in the future.

While this seems like the simplest solution, one problem with this plan is that it’s not really in your kids’ best interests to spend much time with her either. Even if she is a loving grandmother to them and doesn’t talk badly about you to them, she is a terrible role model on how to deal with conflict, and kids are so very impressionable. Another problem is that this may actually end up creating more drama because she will probably realize that you are avoiding her and will use it as an excuse to play the victim even more.

But avoiding staying with your in-laws and limiting how much time you spend with them in a given day is a very good idea though, so perhaps you could start just with that and then see if her behavior improves with that one change. It’s also much better if both you and your H can have a united front and act as a team, because then it will be harder for your MIL to breach your boundaries.

[Notwendy]

I think contact with the kids depends on different circumstances.

For me, I did not leave my mother alone with my kids, ever. That didn't seem to be much of an issue as she was with my father during visits and I was there too, mostly with my H. She held it together in front of the kids. I would have stopped contact if she didn't. We didn't discuss this (we have to act like she's normal and not ever reveal her behavior). This was my boundary.

BPD mother is not a caregiver, and she really didn't interact with the kids much. Sometimes she'd be lying down on the couch while the rest of us played with them. She may have been "odd" but not toxic and the kids didn't interact with her much. They loved my father who played with them. My parents were a pair. Since the bond with my father was positive for them, she came with him but he was the one who mainly interacted with them. Your MIL may be different if she does enjoy caregiving and wants more contact.

The point where I felt the need to cut back on contact was when my kids were teens. At this point, they became useful to BPD mother and she began to enlist them to do things for her, be her emotional caretaker, and also attempted to triangulate them against me. My kids also had their own boundaries with her and didn't feel comfortable around her. I respected their cues to how much contact they wanted. Soon after that, they went off to college. Visits were not frequent. BPD mother is angry at me for that but it was important to me to protect them. As young adults, they have their own boundaries and can choose as much contact as they wish which is not often as they are busy and don't live near her.

[ExhaustedDIL]

It’s tricky because my MIL is a caretaker and plays a lot with my children. Being a grandmother is a big part of her identity.  If my children don’t go to visit her, I’m certain her behaviour will deteriorate and I will likely be blamed. Right now, my children can do no wrong in her eyes but I foresee that changing as they get older. My husband agrees we will at some point need to start sheltering our children from her.

Her rages are mostly triggered by me just being a mother with my own opinions that don’t always line up with hers. I assume she wouldn’t lose control like that if I’m not there. My husband would like to shorten the visits as well as longer visits start to fatigue her and make her more likely to lash out under stress. I like to paint and I don’t have the space to paint when my kids are around, so that will be my excuse for opting out of visits and hopefully she accepts that.

It’s a tough boundary to draw. If she behaves calmly around my children, I don’t want to deprive her of the opportunity to spend time with them.

[Notwendy]

Being a grandmother is a big part of her identity.  If my children don’t go to visit her, I’m certain her behaviour will deteriorate and I will likely be blamed. Right now, my children can do no wrong in her eyes but I foresee that changing as they get older. My husband agrees we will at some point need to start sheltering our children from her.

It’s a tough boundary to draw. If she behaves calmly around my children, I don’t want to deprive her of the opportunity to spend time with them.

This is similar to my decision to have visits as long as other people were there, as BPD mother did hold it together when others were there.

It's interesting as she embraced the identity of grandmother as part of her own image, but she doesn't have an interest in taking care of children. She's predominantly BPD and also has NPD aspects. It was mainly narcissistic supply for her but when the children were younger, they didn't notice. It was mainly my father who interacted with them. My mother seemed to observe but not interact. She also seemed to have a low tolerance and after a couple of hours wanted to leave.

When I was a teen, BPD mother related to me as if I was a confidant and also enlisted me to do things for her. She's intelligent but also low functioning. Her anxiety affects her executive function and she struggles with doing tasks and so enlists others to do things for her. She also has an emotional need for others to do this too. My visits with her consist of doing things for her. When the kids were little, there wasn't much they could do for her but as teens, I could see her start to do this with them, try to get them alone with her so she could form a one on one connection with them. I didn't fear she'd rage at them. She wanted them to like her. She was enlisting them as emotional caretakers and confidants.

I did have boundaries on her contact with them and as you would predict, and I was blamed for "keeping her from her grandchildren" which did not please my parents but I was not going to allow my mother to do that to them.

[Couscous]

I like to paint and I don’t have the space to paint when my kids are around, so that will be my excuse for opting out of visits and hopefully she accepts that.

It could certainly be worth a shot making an attempt at this. If it doesn’t go well then just pop back over here if you’d like help with troubleshooting. Best of luck to you!

[ExhaustedDIL]

My MIL actually goes a little overboard as a grandparent in the sense that she does everything for my kids and doesn’t ask them to do anything for her. I fear this may be setting them up for future “After everything I’ve done for you, you treat me like this” accusations when they don’t need her to baby them anymore.

Now that I think of it, when it comes to caretaking, she treats those close to her as though they are incapable of caretaking so she has to do it for them. My husband said it was an embarrassing transition for him to go to university because his roommates were more competent than him with cooking and cleaning. She always brings all the meals when she visits us. I used to think she did it just to give me a break from cooking but found out recently she does it because she does not believe that I can cook. But she will quite readily throw that in my face, accusing me of not appreciating all the work she does for us even though I’ve literally never asked her to do anything.

Anyway, let’s see how the next visit goes without me!

[Couscous]

Now that I think of it, when it comes to caretaking, she treats those close to her as though they are incapable of caretaking so she has to do it for them. My husband said it was an embarrassing transition for him to go to university because his roommates were more competent than him with cooking and cleaning.

This is known as infantilization and it's attempt by a psychologically unwell parent to keep one's child forever dependent on the parent. It's actually considered a form of abuse. 

[ExhaustedDIL]

Yes, I think she has taught her husband to be dependent on her in this way, which is why he lets her behave the way she does. It’s quite sad. He lives in fear of angering her to the point that she threatens him with divorce and he has no friends of his own.

[Pilpel]

I was drawn to reading your post because I feel the same, and have used the same description, regarding my relationship with my sister-in-law.  I feel like the punching bag, like I have a particular target when I’ve interacted with her.   It’s interesting that her husband is a psychiatrist.  My brother who is married to her is someone who does not express much emotion, and who generally seems to get tired out by social gatherings.  So it’s an interesting partnership with someone like her who is highly emotional and causes drama.  Currently I’m going on 3 years NC.  And my SIL has made 2 attempts to apologize and reconcile, which I have not responded to.  I was actually planning to respond to her last apology, but was taking my time to think of how to respond.  And a few days ago got an email from my brother basically telling me to knock it off and respond to his wife’s apology and he accused me of being disruptive to our ability to have family gatherings.  My husband and son have kept  in contact with all of them this whole time.  I’m totally fine with that, though weirdly her Christmas photo card last year  she had a photo that included her parents, my parents, and my husband.  Doesn’t bother me, but it’s been my impression that she has a tendency to assume that people who interact with her are in agreement with her. So it’s interesting to get this email from my brother, which seems to assume that my being and remaining no contact is just me being stubborn and disruptive to everyone else in the family, rather than a choice I made after thoroughly discussing it with my husband and kids.

Anyhow, i just think it’s interesting how spouses of PD’ed people can be. I love my brother, but I realize he is just more different from me in some ways that make him comparable with his wife.  NPD’s can be pretty intractable, like emotional bulldozers.  I don’t know how someone can be married to someone like that and not have to adjust themselves to a different idea of normal. 

[Couscous]

I was drawn to reading your post because I feel the same, and have used the same description, regarding my relationship with my sister-in-law.  I feel like the punching bag, like I have a particular target when I’ve interacted with her.   It’s interesting that her husband is a psychiatrist.  My brother who is married to her is someone who does not express much emotion, and who generally seems to get tired out by social gatherings.  So it’s an interesting partnership with someone like her who is highly emotional and causes drama.  Currently I’m going on 3 years NC.  And my SIL has made 2 attempts to apologize and reconcile, which I have not responded to.  I was actually planning to respond to her last apology, but was taking my time to think of how to respond.  And a few days ago got an email from my brother basically telling me to knock it off and respond to his wife’s apology and he accused me of being disruptive to our ability to have family gatherings.  My husband and son have kept  in contact with all of them this whole time. I’m totally fine with that, though weirdly her Christmas photo card last year  she had a photo that included her parents, my parents, and my husband.  Doesn’t bother me, but it’s been my impression that she has a tendency to assume that people who interact with her are in agreement with her. So it’s interesting to get this email from my brother, which seems to assume that my being and remaining no contact is just me being stubborn and disruptive to everyone else in the family, rather than a choice I made after thoroughly discussing it with my husband and kids.

What stands out to me here is she is willing to apologize and try to reconcile which is isn't typical NPD behavior. What is your reasoning for not having responded to her attempts at reconciliation?

[Pilpel]

What stands out to me here is she is willing to apologize and try to reconcile which is isn't typical NPD behavior. What is your reasoning for not having responded to her attempts at reconciliation?

NPD SIL is a Christian.  I have seen her apologize to others without being pushed to it.  But I don't recall that she ever has with me. I suspect because I had a close influential relationship with my brother prior.  She has apologized to me in the past, but this was after me saying "Hey you raged at us the other week and that wasn't okay.”  Even then it took a week before she apologized, and it was followed with an explanation “I felt jealous that your two kids were easier to deal with than my four kids.”  I told her that those were feelings that were on her to develop coping skills for, and she did not like being told that.  So the sense I got was that even when she was honest and apologetic, there was an underlying belief that being honest about her negative feelings were meant to prompt me to be more understanding and enabling when it happens again.  BTW, she has also admitted before that she feels pleasure when she rages, which was something that has really stuck with me.  A year and a half ago she sent me her first email of apology, which I didn't have it in my to respond to.  I just had so much peace being no contact and wasn't ready to engage again.  Several months later, there were a couple incidents where she reverted back to old habits and made some vicious false accusations against me.  So I felt I had made the right choice not responding.  Her recent apology she brings up the feelings of my brother and her kids, which from all my experience is just the same old manipulation, appealing to a sense of obligation and guilt to others, that and some things she's written to my husband make me feel like she's not sincere but is concerned about external appearances.  My brother's recent email has the same tone.  Her kids have always been welcome to my house, and I have not prevented my kids from spending time with them when they've visited my parents who live next door.  If it gives you a better sense of the picture, in the years that we were in contact, which was nearly once a month, neither she nor my brother ever showed much attention or affection to my own kids.  And after going NC, she wrote a NC email back to me and one of her conditions was that I write a list of all the good things she’s done for my brother, her own kids, and my parents.  Which was so weird, because it seemed an acknowledgment that she knows she’s put little into fostering a loving relationship with my kids and but it doesn't stop her from doubling down on using her kids to try to FOG me.