Shading the truth - to do it or not to

[Chief Drizzt]

Just curious if anyone else does this.

I will often shade the truth from my bpd wife because I’m afraid of triggering her.  Sometimes I will keep things from her or flat out lie.  Right now my wife thinks I have no contact with one of our kids which isn’t true.  I make a point to speak with him once a week.  If she knew I was doing this she would blow a gasket.  I hate doing this - but it seems like it’s all I can do to have peace.  I’m not trying to justify it - just wondering if anyone else does this.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Notwendy]

Yes, and I observed my father doing it too with BPD mother. I truly don't like being less than open and am doing better at it, but I also think we choose to protect ourselves when we feel it's all we can do at the time. It's not advised- one aspect of not walking on eggshells is to be more authentic, but I don't think achieving this is an all at once event but a process of emotional growth.

You are just beginning to learn about BPD. If there's a relationship with your child that is fractured, then this has been a long standing issue for your family. I'd suggest not taking large steps to change all at once. Learn first- read the posts and about the relationship tools. These are for you to learn and gain, not just because of her but for you to gain better relationship skills.

You are not being wrong to maintain a relationship with your child. This may be the best you can do for now and it likely means a lot to your child.

[thankful person]

Hi chief Drizzt,
I often withhold information from my wife or tell little white lies so as not to trigger and anger her. I have done much work on as not Wendy calls “being more authentic” and over time my wife learnt to accept things better. However she has been extremely dysregulated since having baby 3 last October and I’ve felt I’ve had to back track on some of my progress to try and keep the peace. I gave an example recently of her texting me, “what are you doing?” And I was reading Quora which is an app where people ask questions and connect and discuss things. And I told her I was looking at Pinterest which is a mindless app where people share things but don’t really connect or discuss things. Because my wife doesn’t like me connecting and discussing things she doesn’t like me being on Quora. Once upon a time she banned it. She knows I’m back on there, but I keep notifications turned off so it doesn’t draw her attention if she sees it on my phone. My end goal here is to get notifications turned on again so I’m not hiding anything. Yesterday our baby son was laying on his back and rolled over for the first time ever. I’m sad to admit I kept this from my wife. She gets very upset when she’s not there for the children’s first achievements. I also tend to avoid telling her when I’ve got along with someone at work or have something in common with someone. She gets very jealous especially when I’m out at work and meeting new people.

[Chief Drizzt]

Hi chief Drizzt,
I often withhold information from my wife or tell little white lies so as not to trigger and anger her. I have done much work on as not Wendy calls “being more authentic” and over time my wife learnt to accept things better. However she has been extremely dysregulated since having baby 3 last October and I’ve felt I’ve had to back track on some of my progress to try and keep the peace. I gave an example recently of her texting me, “what are you doing?” And I was reading Quora which is an app where people ask questions and connect and discuss things. And I told her I was looking at Pinterest which is a mindless app where people share things but don’t really connect or discuss things. Because my wife doesn’t like me connecting and discussing things she doesn’t like me being on Quora. Once upon a time she banned it. She knows I’m back on there, but I keep notifications turned off so it doesn’t draw her attention if she sees it on my phone. My end goal here is to get notifications turned on again so I’m not hiding anything. Yesterday our baby son was laying on his back and rolled over for the first time ever. I’m sad to admit I kept this from my wife. She gets very upset when she’s not there for the children’s first achievements. I also tend to avoid telling her when I’ve got along with someone at work or have something in common with someone. She gets very jealous especially when I’m out at work and meeting new people.

I have similar issues with my wife.  For example - I go to a men’s church group on Wednesday nights that she doesn’t like me going to.  I’ve asked her why and she can’t even give me a reason - it’s crazy.  I haven’t had much jealousy issues though she has expressed concern that I now work in a predominately female dominated career (I teach). 

[Cat Familiar]

You are in a relationship with an emotionally disordered spouse. Sure it would be nice to be completely candid and open with your partner, but the result you experience when you do, is not what you would experience if your wife was functional and emotionally mature.

A saying I’ve encountered in political action is “You play the game you’re in, not the game you want to be in.”

What I see you doing is second guessing yourself for withholding information that you would easily disclose if your wife was emotionally healthy. Do what you need to do following your own ethical compass.

[Notwendy]

As Cat said, the need to keep things private may be more of a protective boundary than dishonest. Also, one doesn't have to disclose every detail to a spouse, there needs to be some privacy and trust in the other person.

With my BPD mother, she'd like it if I was completely exposed but I have my own boundaries with that. Also, the playing field isn't equal. She doesn't disclose everything, as I think it makes her feel more in control.

There's nothing wrong with going to a men's church group or to work with other people.

[thankful person]

Growing up, I often remember my mother saying of my father, “what he doesn’t know can’t hurt him…”
I think my father’s mother had bpd. She was an alcoholic and attempted suicide many times, and had many tumultuous relationships. My dad suffered with mental instability, paranoia, anxiety, depression and hypochondria. Mum and also Dad’s sister would protect him from truths which would stress him out. Even recently my auntie dropped their mothers house keys on the beach, and couldn’t find them, so there was a huge cover up to ensure they got replaced without my Dad finding out.
I am sure I learnt some caretaking practises from my mother.

[waverider]

If your partner had Post Traumatic Stress Disorder would you hide things that you know would trigger them? BPD is just another disorder that has triggers, so hiding known triggers for the same reason is no different.

If someone cant deal handling reality, then insisting on exposing them to reality is simply a feel good for you, not them. You cant make somebody except what they cant accept. What you would be attempting to do is modify their behaviour. You are on a hiding to nothing if you thing you can modify the thinking of a pwBPD to accept your reality.

Even therapist will commonly withhold a BPD diagnosis from their clients.

So in short, it is normal, even with we are uncomfortable with it.

[thankful person]

If someone cant deal handling reality, then insisting on exposing them to reality is simply a feel good for you, not them. You cant make somebody except what they cant accept. What you would be attempting to do is modify their behaviour. You are on a hiding to nothing if you thing you can modify the thinking of a pwBPD to accept your reality.

I disagree with this. It’s interesting that we are told, stop walking on egg shells; stop caretaking… But then we are also to understand that these relationships can only possibly work if we do walk on eggshells and caretake to some degree. When you read about pwbpd, it often says that their romantic relationships are short-lived. But then here we all are here in bpd family, many of  whom have stuck with our pwbpd’s for 10, 20, 30+ years. If their relationships are short-lived, it is because most people would not put up with the emotional abuse and everything that comes with it. But then there’s us, who have done for many years.

My own aim is to be presenting the truth of life as authentically as possible to my wife, and I have had varying success with it. The reason I came upon this group: I had posted anonymously in a Facebook group that my mother wanted photos of our baby and my wife didn’t even want me taking photos let alone sending them to my mother. My question was (I feel pretty pathetic about it actually): do I take and send photos secretly, immediately deleting them off my phone and telling mum they are secret? Or do I tell mum, sorry you’re not getting pictures, only when wife chooses to send you them. The overwhelming response predictably (though I couldn’t see it) was LEAVE HER. And of course some people pointed out, you know you could actually send photos with her knowing, even if she doesn’t like it…

Eventually after I joined bpd family and read the tools and books, I challenged myself to stop the caretaking behaviours and let my wife deal with her own feelings. If you read my posts on here in 2021, within six months I was posting how my stopping caretaking had actually had the effect on my wife of her becoming more sane and reasonable. It reminded me of how children need boundaries to feel safe. With all the control my wife had taken, she was just taking more and more and I believe it was making her feel even more out of control. She needed me to stand up for myself somehow. With the caretaking I also stopped trying to prepare her for everything that could go wrong in daily life etc. and she actually grew in confidence from me taking this step back.

I do think it is complicated. For the past six months I’ve had to “caretake” a lot more because my wife has been seriously split on me since baby 3 arrived. I do not want her shrieking around the children so I act to mitigate this behaviour. I have taken time off work when she has bullied me into it, because I cannot risk leaving the children with her when she’d said she needs help. Correct me if I’m wrong, but is it not a form of caretaking if you’re talking to someone and keeping that from the pwbpd for whatever reason? In the case of chief Drizzt talking to your son, I entirely understand and see that you don’t want to mess with an already fragile situation. But I do think it’s different from my mum and auntie not wanting to trigger my dad’s anxiety by telling him some keys got lost on a beach, the main reason being that no one could be bothered with the hassle and expense of changing the locks to put his mind at rest. Maybe if my dad had not been so shielded from reality for so many years, he would have learnt better coping strategies.

Also, I forgot to mention: I am proud to say I do still take photos of the children and send them to my mother whenever I want to. And my wife is ok with it now. So actually I did successfully modify her thinking to accept my reality which is that I have a right to take photos of our children and send them to my mother. It was absolutely essential that I did this because I didn’t want my mother to die thinking I didn’t love her. I was willing to lose my marriage over it and I nearly did.

[Chief Drizzt]

Very well said Thankful Person.  God has blessed me with a lot of patience - which is probably why I’ve stuck it for 30 plus years.  Not to mention the fact that I genuinely do love my wife and want the best for her.

[waverider]

You have to pick your battles and if you are going to have confrontation about every tiny little trigger then you are on a hiding to nothing.

[Cat Familiar]

You have to pick your battles and if you are going to have confrontation about every tiny little trigger then you are on a hiding to nothing.

“Discretion is the better part of valor.”  (Falstaff in King Henry the Fourth, Part One, by William Shakespeare.)

It comes down to boundaries. Do you feel you need to disclose everything in order to be *honest*? To everyone? To your spouse? If so, that indicates that you don’t value your own privacy.

Avoiding JADEing (Justifying, Arguing, Defending, Explaining) is by that definition *lying* (rather than being strategic) simply because you are having thoughts and feelings that you are well aware would precipitate an argument or increase the intensity of conflict.

Same goes with saying true, but potentially hurtful information. Why would you do it, if you knew it would be received as harmful, rather than helpful.

By that definition, being somewhat opaque by saying something like “We have different opinions” rather than what you are really thinking: “You are full of sh!t” can be judged as lying at worse, not being fully transparent at best.

Yes, it’s important to behave with integrity, but as in any social contract, we tend to be discrete in communicating information we know could potentially hurt others. And this is a skill we must employ with even more finesse in relationships with BPD partners, as they are so much more thin skinned than the average emotionally healthy individual.

[waverider]

“Discretion is the better part of valor.”  (Falstaff in King Henry the Fourth, Part One, by William Shakespeare.)

It comes down to boundaries. Do you feel you need to disclose everything in order to be *honest*? To everyone? To your spouse? If so, that indicates that you don’t value your own privacy.

Avoiding JADEing (Justifying, Arguing, Defending, Explaining) is by that definition *lying* (rather than being strategic) simply because you are having thoughts and feelings that you are well aware would precipitate an argument or increase the intensity of conflict.

Same goes with saying true, but potentially hurtful information. Why would you do it, if you knew it would be received as harmful, rather than helpful.

By that definition, being somewhat opaque by saying something like “We have different opinions” rather than what you are really thinking: “You are full of sh!t” can be judged as lying at worse, not being fully transparent at best.

Yes, it’s important to behave with integrity, but as in any social contract, we tend to be discrete in communicating information we know could potentially hurt others. And this is a skill we must employ with even more finesse in relationships with BPD partners, as they are so much more thin skinned than the average emotionally healthy individual.

Well said, we cant have our own principles run rough shod over the well being of others, just to prove a point. If someone had Arachnophobia would we point out there is spider right behind them? Of course not. Its an unnecessary trigger and can come across as uncaring. A pwBPDs paranoias and anxieties are real, and you cant just take an attitude that it is their problem and they should just harden up. Some things that are real issues have to be dealt with but a lot trivialities are best just bypassed

[thankful person]

Waverider, interesting point about the spider. My wife is terrified of wasps and anything that looks or sounds similar. I did used to make many things worse by pointing them out unnecessarily, because I wanted her to be happy and not freaked out etc. Now if I see a wasp or anything, I say nothing. I think this is more exposing her to the reality of life, whilst sometimes saving her the stress of knowing about it. But I do feel it is somewhat caretaking, if I don’t mention a wasp because of how she will react. So caretaking can be an active or inactive thing. I check myself by questioning whether I would mention such a thing to another person who didn’t have bpd. It is also a balancing act with “chatting to my partner about a new friend I made at work” for example. My wife can’t seem to make up her mind whether she wants to know everything about my day or whether she wants me to STOP TALKING ABOUT WORK because apparently it’s all I ever talk about.

My wife seems to be more accepting of my claiming more power back to be my own person again. We visited a farm yesterday and I felt inspired to send both our mothers some pictures last night. I told my wife, only because her mother had a message for her. She was absolutely fine and I was a little surprised because I realise I have still been somewhat following old rules that if you are sending pictures it can’t be straight away. She even suggested I FaceTime my parents today while the baby was available and in a good mood (he has spent most of his six months asleep or feeding at the breast). I have noticed my wife will suggest such things sometimes to help her feel more in control.

I’m turning Quora notifications on too. If I can possibly again walk this same path towards things becoming a bit easier then I am going to try it.

[waverider]

Exactly right, claiming your life normality back is certainly worth doing and is kind of like a trial and error evolutionary process. It is definitely a constant balancing act between caretaking and caregiving and you wont always get it right, but that is the way it is with the enigma of someone is both predictable at times and totally unpredictable at other

[2020]

I have tried to be upfront and honest with my partner. Her response is rarely good. Usually I will receive a sarcastic comment. Sometimes she will point out some hypocrisy or how she is being neglected by me as a result.

Recently my son bought me an electric toothbrush. She saw it when I was visiting. She commented that one of my ‘wives’ (my sons) had bought me a toothbrush. I said I had bought it. Days later whilst driving home I realised I may have left my toothbrush up there. I rang her and in the conversation, I let slip that my son was with me at the shop. She asked if he bought a toothbrush too and I said he did; that he paid for them.

This was enough to send her over the edge. I get it. I should have been honest from the beginning in retrospect, but in the moment I wasn’t truthful.
 
The point I am making is, with anyone else, one would not fear relaying the small talk about toothbrush purchasing with your son around. I have deceived her and in her eyes if I do this about a toothbrush, then I must be deceiving her about everything.

The difference here is, keeping information away from them so as to not cause a drama, and telling lies. I should have admitted it straight up but feared her reaction. Now I am paying the price which is a long course of Silent Treatment and possibly a full blow discard. I lied, and that is never good to anyone. I have sent an email apologising but it may fall on deaf ears.

Hiding the truth, telling the truth, altering the truth? Better to just tell it as it is, regardless of the   it will cause.

[waverider]

Your wife is looking to nitpick something to vent on. Even if you were 100% absolute truthfully and reporting every minutia of your day she would find something, even if taken out of context, to blow up about. By trying to spell out every little detail its no different to walking on eggshells. Its just moving the goal posts. You are now emailing apologies about a toothbrush, is that not a validating power kick to her?

She is being unreasonable and you are left in a position of "failing" and feeling like you should have done better. Its the fear of her wrath that caused you to tell the little white lie in the first place. The responsibility is hers. Better to have bent the truth because you didnt want to upset her rather than you were afraid of the consequences of upsetting her. If ultimately she is upset thats her problem. We can minimize unnecessary dramas, but cant eliminate them. When things are done in good faith dont feel guilty about them

No one should have to live their life under a BPD microscope

[2020]

Thanks for your helpful insight waverider. You are right. She will always find something else to blow up about. I am sick of the eggshell minefield dance. I want to be able to be (more) honest around her rather than ‘bending’ the truth.

In retrospect, I probably should not even have sent that (validating) email. She thanked me for it but has been fairly unresponsive since. I was expecting no reply at all. Being the aniversary of her mother’s death today, she is “having a day of dark solitude”. I’ll leave her to work stuff out. I am glad to have the physical distance right now.