My Ex's therapist is is not good

[Conflicted1986]

So my relationship with my bpd girlfriend recently ended & i am being ghosted at the moment. We will soon begin working at the same office together, but thats for another post.

I think i have become a trigger for her, because she has been very hostile towards me. She was diagnosed with BPD well before we got together and she informed me before we began dating. I guess i was niave enough to beleive that because she was in therapy and that she would be fine.

Her reason for the breakup was that I was not showing her emotions & therefore she was not feeling loved. I do agree that due to external factors in my life, i felt low for a while & was not at 100% or even close. But it was not my fault, when bad things happen, i cant pretend that things are ok & be romantic all the time. I had the right to be depressed and sad for a while.  

During the breakup, while we were talking, she mentioned to me that her last few therapy sessions were complete discussions about me and our relationship. I was informed that her Therapist, at some point during the sessions mentioned to her that 'a man can change for a woman that he truly loves, that when he meets the correct person all these emotions & romantic words will come out of him'. My then girlfriend took this as a signal that i do not truly love her & ended things with me.

its worth mentioning that our breakup & makeup cycles have always revolved around this point. I would always promise to show more emotions and be more romantic, but would inevitably fail.

I did love her, i really did.

But this break up was very difficult for me, because she was the only major person in my personal life, as i am not too social and dont have very many friends. So while looking for more answers & some sort of closure or explainations, i stumbled upon this website, multiple youtube videos and multiple podcasts and all of them knew what my girlfriend's next moves were going to be.

This website has multiple articles detailing point for point the things that she did, and in the exact sequence that she did them. The youtube videos & podcasts described my relationship to the dot, without ever knowing me, it was very scary.

So why didnt her therapist catch this?

Why didnt he see that she was was begining to push away her partner & de-value him.
Why didnt he catch the fact that she was starting to have FOA issues.
Why did he not understand that she will go in a downward spiral as she is doing at the moment.
Why did he not help her manage her expectations towards the relationship and towards her partner, rather he just fueled her own insecurities.

All of these websites got it right, but the one professional my poor girl used to go to regularly didnt catch any of these redflags, despite knowing that she is a pwBPD.

I have a feeling that her therapist is letting her down. Even though my relationship might be coming to an end, i still care for her on many levels, and i dont want to see her lose more.

I tried to speak to her about this, but as i said in the start, i am being ghosted.

Am i over thinking this or am i missing something? its been bothering me.

Thanks for reading.

[Notwendy]

I think you are correct to think that therapists can vary in their skill with BPD, but ( and this is a big "but")- any therapists are limited to what their client tells them. They aren't mind readers. Their focus is on helping with what is troubling their client, and they can only go by what is being said to them. With BPD- the view of the client is through that lens.

Unless you have been in the sessions, or have been able to speak to the therapist, you don't know what has been said in these sessions, only what your BPD ex relates to you and also that is filtered through her perceptions or what she wants you to hear. It is possible the "man will change" statement was not said, but what she interpreted was said.

In my own experience, therapy has been limited with my BPD mother, because she presents her own perception of other people to the therapist. I think it's fair to say that for any issue, even not just BPD, a person has to be willing or able to see their part in the situation, otherwise, it's hard for therapy to be effective.

As much as you wish for better for your ex, her therapy is between her and the therapist. It's possible the therapist may have caught on to the issues and is going about this in his own way. Your ex is responsible for her own therapy.

[babyducks]

Hello Conflicted,

Not every therapist is a good therapist.   and not every therapist is a good fit for a particular client.

therapy is hard work that requires cooperation, commitment and honesty from both parties.    and that is hard to do when one person is suffering from a serious mental illness.

its often said that therapist have a difficult time working with a pwBPD because of their distorted reality, emotional reactivity and inability to accept responsibility.

I guess i was niave enough to beleive that because she was in therapy and that she would be fine.

in my experience therapy isn't a fix.  it's not a cure.   it's more like a support, like a brace after you injure your knee.    the knee is still wonky,  the brace is supposed to enable more and better activity.   BPD is a personality disorder.   meaning its embedded in the personality.    that is very hard to identify much less change.   

I was informed that her Therapist, at some point during the sessions mentioned to her that 'a man can change for a woman that he truly loves, that when he meets the correct person all these emotions & romantic words will come out of him'.

Hmmmmm.    I'm skeptical here Conflicted.    To me this looks like textbook magical thinking.   Which is one of Beck's Cognitive Distortions.   Magical thinking is 'if only X would happen then everything would be all right'.    I am seriously doubtful the therapist said it this way, or meant it in the way it was interpreted.

So why didnt her therapist catch this?

I think perhaps you are making some assumptions that may not be wholly accurate.       the therapist can only work with the information provided by your ex girlfriend.    you've no way of knowing what was said between them.   and, I think this is important, you've no way of knowing how receptive she was to looking at things from new and often painful angles.

often, most of us have this fallacy if we only explain things logically, that our partners will 'see sense'.   which almost never works because mental illness isn't about logic.    it's not about how we explain things.   it's not about how we or a therapist describes or spells out or demonstrates how behavior and feelings create environments.

think about the example of the alcoholic.    or the drug addict.    who can't 'see' that the drinking or drug use is causing problems.    to the addicted it's 'never that bad',  it's always 'under control',  the problem is always something else.  people will keep drinking and using drugs right to the end of their life because it makes perfect sense to them.   their logic works for them.   

Why did he not help her manage her expectations towards the relationship and towards her partner, rather he just fueled her own insecurities.

there is really no way to tell what happened between them since we weren't in the room.   I'm pretty sure you've had the experience with your girlfriend of offering a point of view that was different from her's, only to have her discount your thoughts and double down on her own.   one of the things that I've found about BPD is that they can't entertain different perspectives from their own.   

In Margalis Fjelstad's book: Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist she says that pwBPD:

- have an intense belief in their own perceptions despite facts to the contrary
- Their interpretation of events is the only truth
- Cannot be persuaded by fact or logic
- Do not see the impact of their own behavior on others
- Deny the perceptions of others
- Believe that the emotions of the moment are totally accurate and will last forever

I found that to be very helpful.   once it was made explicit, I definitely could see that in my partner.    her way was the only way she could consider.    anything else was threat that had to be eliminated.   

hope this helps
'ducks

[kells76]

Hi Conflicted1986 and welcome  ;

Just adding my thoughts to the helpful feedback from Notwendy and babyducks. I think we're all on the same page:

Unless you have been in the sessions, or have been able to speak to the therapist, you don't know what has been said in these sessions, only what your BPD ex relates to you and also that is filtered through her perceptions or what she wants you to hear. It is possible the "man will change" statement was not said, but what she interpreted was said.

I am seriously doubtful the therapist said it this way, or meant it in the way it was interpreted.

I think perhaps you are making some assumptions that may not be wholly accurate.       the therapist can only work with the information provided by your ex girlfriend.    you've no way of knowing what was said between them.   and, I think this is important, you've no way of knowing how receptive she was to looking at things from new and often painful angles.

...

there is really no way to tell what happened between them since we weren't in the room.

Yes and yes.

I'll add my "angle", which is: as human beings, we're wired to believe what others communicate us. Think about it -- every day, we accept without second thought people telling us "the meeting is in room 123", "don't sit on that chair", "traffic is bad at 1st and Main", "careful, the coffee is hot"... we don't spend our time questioning every single statement we hear. Otherwise, how could we get on with life? Sometimes this is called the "principle of credulity" and I think it's a fundamental part of being human.

However, when we're interacting with a pwBPD, that principle can throw us for a loop.

There have been other members in your shoes, trying to untangle "but her therapist said I was the problem" type statements -- check out these threads if you'd like to read more:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=355176.0

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=355211.0

...

Food for thought...

kells76

[Rev]

Hi Conflicted...

Really sorry that you are in the middle of where you find yourself. It can be so confusing and discouraging.  And I am really happy that you found us. Notwendy, 'Ducks and Kells76 have shared some really good insights.

While not an exact match, here is something I added to another thread about a similar topic to yours. Maybe there's something here that you can use, understanding that it's probably not all going to apply. So feel free to pick and choose what works for you.

Hello all,

Fascinating conversation - and I'd like to add/echo some of what I am reading here, especially the advice about understanding why therapy may or may not be working.

I think that one of the illusions that we place ourselves under is that therapy will "fix" something.  In fact, therapy will more than likely reveal a whole host of inconvenient truths - especially where personality disorders are concerned.

I often liken psychotherapy to physiotherapy. Physio to repair an physical injury - psychotherapy to repair a psychic injury.  Borrowing on this analogy, it remains possible (and I would say likely in the case of DBT) that a person will always "walk with a limp".  Without wanting to extinguish hope, I am suggesting that a cautious realism is in order.

When therapy is "not working", on average there is more likelihood that an unconscious "resistance" (i.e. a maldaptive psychodynamic  pattern) is trying to make itself seen. I like to call this - lipstick on the lapel. (Borrowed from the cheating husband who unconsciously wants to get caught because he can't fess up.)

Some therapists believe that up to 85% of the success of therapy depends on the quality of the "alliance" between therapist and client. Given that pwBPD have core challenges in forming relationships to begin with, successful therapy can be very hit and miss. It is one on the reasons why, therapists who specialize in treating people with BPD often need therapists themselves to continue their practices.

All this to say, in solidarity with people hoping to get help, it's so easy to become despondent and/or discouraged. That's why coming here to resource your energy can be such a good thing.

Hope this helps, even if only a little.

Rev

[Conflicted1986]

Hi Notwendy, Babyducks, Kells & Rev,

thanks for your replies and your support.

I have read all your replies, multiple times infact and was able to understand everyone's point of view & explainations.

I do agree that i was not in the room during the sessions and there is no way for me to know what was actually said or in what context and after reading everything, i do feel for the therapist as well.

During the relationship and because i was niave at the start, i always took my partner's word as universal truths. i beleived them at my core. I beleived in her honesty and ability to relay information to me accurately. 

I did eventually catch on that her perception of things could be distorted and that i need to take things with a grain of salt. But to be honest, at the moment i am just quite angry, annoyed and mad about the things that have been going on recently.

"a man can change for a woman that he truly loves, that when he meets the correct person all these emotions & romantic words will come out of him"

my bpd ex used to paraphrase this line in some way or another during our breakup cycles. Which is why when she told me that the therapist said it too, i beleived that he was fueling her insecurities.  i did not catch it at the time, but while reading all your posts, and those of others on this forum, i now realize that there is more to it to just that.

I am just quite heartbroken about everything and although i now realise that the pwBPD has caused a lot of the issues, i can't bring myself to blame her, because i know she did not choose the trauma that brought her this disorder in life. i choose to support her treatment. I guess i am just looking for someone to blame. I could be one as well, as I should have known to spot things better. Maybe i could not have done much for her, but i could have protected my feelings more.

I also wanted to add that mental health carries a huge stigma in the part of the world where i live. People with disorders can sometimes be shunned off by their family & sometimes friends. It took a lot of courage & bravery for my Ex to go to a therapist with and with no support from her family at all. All she wanted was to understand the thoughts in her head & to be understood by those around her. I deeply respect her for this.   

[babyducks]

hello Conflicted,

But to be honest, at the moment i am just quite angry, annoyed and mad about the things that have been going on recently.

of course, you are.    anyone would be.   we all were.   I'm not a youngster by any stretch of the imagination and I have never ever gone through anything like the break up with my Ex with BPD.   It rattled my world to an unbelievable degree.   and like you, I was/am in the situation where No Contact wasn't an option.   It was incredibly mind bending to have to process the trauma of the relationship and ~act normal~ in public.

"a man can change for a woman that he truly loves, that when he meets the correct person all these emotions & romantic words will come out of him"

we've all been accused of not loving our pwBPD enough, or the right way.   and that really hurts.   because for most of us, we are head over heels and twisting ourselves into pretzels trying to show how much love we have.    I certainly heard a version of this.    'you have to treat me better'   or 'you don't treat me right'.

I've been out of my relationship for years.   and sometimes I still wonder, did I not show enough love or was it she never could feel loved?   that the quality that enables us to feel love and comfort and security was broken within her.   I can look back and find examples of times where I fell short of expressing myself as well as I might have liked.   but what also stands out is that I can look back and find times where I expressed myself in an over the top unbelievable display.   in ways that are almost embarrassing now.   and even that wasn't enough for her to feel cared for.    what was that relationship based on?   her need for constant attention and adoration and my need to caretake?   yikes.

'ducks

[Conflicted1986]

I can resonate with everything you said ducks. Everything.

I have been through a lot of it myself.

I certainly heard a version of this.    'you have to treat me better'   or 'you don't treat me right'

"You never made me feel loved"... this was the line used on me... used to cut me to bits, coz i did actually love her. I did things for this person that i probably will never do for anyone else ever again. I tried to explain to her that giving her my time itself was an act of love. All i did was go to work all day & spend time with her all evening. I would take an hour in the evening to have dinner & watch a tv show maybe, but that was it. the rest of the time was on the phone with her or she was at my place. 7 days a week. Yet she never saw the love in it.

Sorry for venting this much, but all this is just happening all at the same time, she never liked it if others knew about her BPD, so i dont really have anywhere else where i can be honest about whats going on. Everywhere else, i have to pretend and act normal and be the guy that couldnt love his partner enough. No one will know the truth. 

Thank you all for being here and for all the advice & the support.

[SinisterComplex]

Hi Notwendy, Babyducks, Kells & Rev,

thanks for your replies and your support.

I have read all your replies, multiple times infact and was able to understand everyone's point of view & explainations.

I do agree that i was not in the room during the sessions and there is no way for me to know what was actually said or in what context and after reading everything, i do feel for the therapist as well.

During the relationship and because i was niave at the start, i always took my partner's word as universal truths. i beleived them at my core. I beleived in her honesty and ability to relay information to me accurately. 

I did eventually catch on that her perception of things could be distorted and that i need to take things with a grain of salt. But to be honest, at the moment i am just quite angry, annoyed and mad about the things that have been going on recently.

my bpd ex used to paraphrase this line in some way or another during our breakup cycles. Which is why when she told me that the therapist said it too, i beleived that he was fueling her insecurities.  i did not catch it at the time, but while reading all your posts, and those of others on this forum, i now realize that there is more to it to just that.

I am just quite heartbroken about everything and although i now realise that the pwBPD has caused a lot of the issues, i can't bring myself to blame her, because i know she did not choose the trauma that brought her this disorder in life. i choose to support her treatment. I guess i am just looking for someone to blame. I could be one as well, as I should have known to spot things better. Maybe i could not have done much for her, but i could have protected my feelings more.

I also wanted to add that mental health carries a huge stigma in the part of the world where i live. People with disorders can sometimes be shunned off by their family & sometimes friends. It took a lot of courage & bravery for my Ex to go to a therapist with and with no support from her family at all. All she wanted was to understand the thoughts in her head & to be understood by those around her. I deeply respect her for this.   

Conflicted, the unfortunate reality is that mental health gets a bad rap in all corners of the world. Which is total and utter BS . I mean it is bad enough in the United States where you have people who still do not take it seriously enough or do not want to accept the what is. So I definitely get where you are coming from there.

There is no one to blame. Hate the disorder, not the person. This is very hard for people, but it is a concept you have to try to get comfortable with. In essence, blame the monster. Beyond that you are already doing the best thing you can do mentally for yourself and being healthy about it by analyzing your role and what you can and could have done better.

Please be kind to you and take care of yourself. Keep your head up...better days will be ahead. I don't say that as empty words...choose to believe that and strive to make it a reality.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Manic Miner]

This is only my opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

I think my ex W's therapist actually ruined her. I wrote here many times about it.

In a nutshell, when my W was far more approachable and was looking for help to treat herself and her depression, she stumbled upon a psychiatrist from a famous local health centre. She was mostly dealing with PTSD military sufferers in her career.

Long story short, while my ex was surely responsible for her actions and decisions, this woman (her T) not only didn't get BPD in sight but actually treated the effect (depression) not the root of the problem - with completely bad method that boosted W's false self esteem, without treating her delusions, occasional rage and irrational behavior.

It was like letting a kid fly a commercial jet plane without doing training on Cessna first. You cannot treat BPD sufferers like they are normal, encouraging their behaviour!

While her T effectively treated W's depression, it was at the expense of our then 18y relationship and marriage that suffered a steep downfall ever since. Huge boost of her self esteem meant that she was no longer responsible for anything, entitlement went through the roof but her irrationality and impulsiveness remained strong as ever.

[thecrusader]

Hello my brother in arms, I read your story and with a couple of small mods, it could be mine as well.  My exBPD has told me in our last couple of conversations (we are broken up, but she hasn't moved out yet), that her therapist told her there is nothing wrong with her and that she is in an "abusive" relationship.  Thanks to the responses in my own thread, I have a much more rational (and healthy) viewpoint of reality.  Sometimes, we forget just how detached from reality they can be.  There have been several examples in my case where she claims she never said something (like, "I hate you, I wish you were dead"), I had the wherewithall in those moments to write them down immediately and also call a close friend moments later to anchor the moment.  They have a way of making us feel like we're crazy. 

If you ever need to talk, feel free to message me.