Coping, Accepting, and Letting Myself Be Codependent

[NarcsEverywhere]

I coped today, that's what I did. I stayed too busy, was codependent a bit with the pets, as they were depressed, and I felt stuck and guilty, was a bit with my Dad, even spent time with him, to feel less lonely, threw him some bones, in some thank yous that I wasn't ready to give. I even coped in other areas of my life. I lived life, even though I was totally off. Most of it felt crappy. I guess it's a reminder of why I want to change, and want my relationships to change, and why I want to heal. But it also felt very comfortable, and I'm realizing I am going to have to accept myself more and allow myself to cope sometimes.

Just because I feel like I am capable of a lot, doesn't mean I am always capable of a lot. Just because I can learn rapidly, doesn't mean I can integrate it rapidly, just because I want something, doesn't mean I can have it right away. Just because I can see what's over the horizon on my healing journey, and can logically understand stuff, doesn't mean I've grieved, and am emotionally there yet.

Life is hard, this is hard, life is mess sometimes, it sucks sometimes, sometimes the best you can do is cope and accept, because struggling day in and day out, is exhausting. And honestly, maybe by realizing this, I can also learn to accept others more and let them cope more, and not always burst their bubble with my brutal honesty. I love that I can be honest, but I think I can take it too far sometimes, and don't have the mercy to allow others to cope, just like I don't have the mercy towards myself, to allow myself to cope.

[Notwendy]

I coped today, that's what I did.

I can also learn to accept others more and let them cope more, and not always burst their bubble with my brutal honesty. I love that I can be honest, but I think I can take it too far sometimes, and don't have the mercy to allow others to cope, just like I don't have the mercy towards myself, to allow myself to cope.

It may be that calling out other people for their shortcomings, bursting their bubble, isn't the best approach to personal change. Nobody likes to be criticized.

I think it's a good thing that you behaved kindly to your father, even if you felt he doesn't deserve it. I try to treat my mother kindly, even if she doesn't always behave kindly to me. This is different from being co-dependent or enabling. It's about how I choose to behave towards other people. It is possible to be civil and still not tolerate abuse. Maybe sometimes we also don't do this perfectly, but we can also still try to do the best we can.

You wrote in another thread how to prove yourself to be worthy to others. Other people don't bestow self worth, we do this for ourselves through abiding by our own values. It's not co-dependent to say thank you to your father. It's abiding by a value of gratitude. He has his issues, so does everyone. But he did make an effort on your birthday to do something nice and buy you the pizza. Yes, he has done things that disappoint you as well, but it seems he is making some effort.

There is a difference in being co-dependent and interdependent. Most of us are in an interdependent situation if we don't live alone. We each depend on each other for certain tasks and responsibilities. It's also not always 50-50- I think that is rare. It's each to his/her own ability. Sometimes any people sharing a living space are going to get on each other's nerves too. You and your father have your strengths and also your limitations and you are sharing a living arrangement. If a living situation isn't ideal, we can still try to make the best of it, as long as it's not a physically dangerous situation.

You may not have the choice to change your living situation, but you do have the choice  to diminish conflict. It isn't being co-dependent to decide to choose peace over conflict if it doesn't involve allowing abuse. As to the pets, all domestic pets are dependent on their humans to take care of them. If your pets want attention, it's OK to do that, and probably good for you to do that too.

Your point of being able to show mercy to others being connected to showing it to yourself is significant. People who are hard on themselves can also be hard on others. It seems that you chose kindness over anger and somehow you felt more comfortable. Seems like a positive choice to make.

[NarcsEverywhere]

I do have value's of gratitude and compassion, and all sort of stuff. But it's like, it was easier to have that, before I saw how screwed up my father and others really were. Now that I see how they are, it's harder to accept them. It was so much easier to be positive about people, when I lied to myself. In the past, I didn't criticize people very often, and it allowed me to keep the peace, but the world isn't some utopia, people need criticism, if they are doing very damaging things, sometimes a virtue needs to be held.

For instance, I now know how to assert myself, and a lady stole a raincoat off of the fork lift near the shop out back, and I called her out, said "Is that yours? And she gave me a sob story about how her dog needed a raincoat, I stuck to my guns, and didn't let her worm her way out of it, and said it's not hers. She showed zero respect, even though I said "I'm sorry, cute dog, etc", It's only rainy a bit this time of year, and the dog looked fine. At first, I felt guilt after, like I was heartless. But then I assessed that she dropped the coat, had zero respect even after getting caught, and zero respect to me, as she was pissy and walked off. Her lack of respect, showed her dishonesty. Then 10 minutes later, I find out it's a neighbors coat, and he forgot it and I did a good deed by doing what I did.

I do realize that maybe I need more nuance though, like, there's more than one way to deal with something. And maybe in a lot of instances, I can build up to being more assertive, if other possibilities aren't working. Holding people accountable is important, even if they don't like it, especially about the bigger stuff. I used to let big stuff slide, and then I'd lose my dignity. Because especially with Narcissistic people, they'll try to get away with almost anything they can.

Oh, I give my pets plenty of attention, the issue is I rarely even allow myself to have a bad day. Like I'll be super depressed for a day or two and I'll think my pets will implode if I ignore them a bit, because of my own issues. I love to give my pets attention, but sometimes I feel like they are more dependent on me than they actually are, as they can look to my Dad or fend for themselves sometimes. (not completely, but more than I let them)

I mean, the issue with not saying thank you is more about giving my Dad credit before I've given it to myself, and feeling drained and indepted because of it. It's super hard to get credit from him, and I have no friend group right now, so it's all on  me to give myself, and even him credit, and if I don't, then he starts acting out (which can really screw me if his manipulations are working). This type of dynamic causes me to feel like there's so little room for error around my house, both with boundaries and with what I say and do, and is part of the reason I get so perfectionistic. "Walking on eggshells".

Thanks for responding Notwendy. I do think though, that if I shield myself from things too much, by being too assertive, then I don't face discomfort enough to face my own issues. In the past, I would work on my issues like crazy, and blame myself excessively. I think that's better than externalizing it all, like a lot of the people with NPD do, but it's also what kept me stuck.

Totally agree, need to stop being hard on myself, I do try, but then I freak out, because of anxiety/stress, or because of abuse, or trauma or whatever. I do try to not hold too much of the past against my Dad, and my behavior has been pretty damned good a lot of times, but I also held myself to an unattainable standard, until I'd lose it, and have even worse behavior. Sometimes I need to be human and lose it a bit, to be bitchy and whiny and grumpy.

Edit: I see what you're saying though, that I can fall into a victim mentality. Which I suppose has been useful, in that it's allowed me to learn to assert and defend myself, but after I learned that, I need to take more responsibility for my inner world, and not stay stuck in it, because that's how healing takes place.

[Notwendy]

Edit: I see what you're saying though, that I can fall into a victim mentality. Which I suppose has been useful, in that it's allowed me to learn to assert and defend myself, but after I learned that, I need to take more responsibility for my inner world, and not stay stuck in it, because that's how healing takes place.

I understand it can feel invalidating to not agree with the amount of difficulty other people have caused. That was real. I don't share much about my mother with other people but when someone says "but she's your mother, you should be nice to her" it feels invalidating. So while I won't do that with you, I also want to share what I learned about "victim" perspective.

Most counselors have been supportive, allowed me to share my experiences and while there's value in this, the one who led me to the most change was the one who didn't do that. Was it comfortable? No, in fact, there were times I felt upset and angry about that.  But then by turning the mirror on me, I saw where I could make changes. We can not change other people, only ourselves, and so focusing on other people's shortcomings doesn't help us change. Now, some of this is necessary to get the idea of what is going on. We have to know the situation, but to change requires change of focus.

There's nothing wrong with sharing and wanting support. I think it's important to be able to share and have support. The question though, is what to do about it. You are surely familiar with the saying "God grand me the wisdom to change what can be changed --and to know what can't be changed.

Changing one's living situation is a big challenge for anybody. Most of us are not in a position to do that, at least not quickly.  Your living situation is not something you can change at the moment, so for the moment, you and your father are interdependent and under one roof. You can not change him, or anyone else.

Self worth comes from our own personal growth. Nobody else can bequest it to us. Change is difficult too. It's best to set a realistic goal and achieve it in small increments.  For me to establish a goal such as "I will be a star tennis player" is not a goal I can or want to meet. But to say "I will practice with the ball and racket in my driveway for 30 minutes, twice a week". I can do that. You may have entirely different choices but for self esteem, it's important to pick something you want to do, not all at once, but take steps towards it. Maybe it's a walk around the block twice a week, maybe it's putting a bookcase together, or reading a certain book. It can be anything you choose but it's a shift in focus from other people to you and what you feel you want to do- and that's a start.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Hey NarcsEverywhere,

I think... Maybe... Just maybe... You are looking inward too much...

Introspection and being able to do it is great, but doing too much of it and anxiety pops its ugly head. Then we start double guessing everything, including good moved we made, like making sure a jacket would go back to its rightful owner... You shouldn't be second guessing that... Yet you are... Because you micro-analyze everything? ... I was like that as well. And still need to keep myself in check once in a while. Doing a lot of meditation and yoga helped a lot with this.

I also spent an awful lot of time in my head... Reviewing every little small interactions, perfecting, trying to look at it 10 different ways, who was wrong? Was I wrong? Was it them? What truly happened? Was I biased?

I would highly recommend focusing on actions... What you can do... Introspection, yes, of course do! It's still a good thing BUT... Balance it out. Get out of your head if you can. Into actions.

I don't know if this will make sense or not to you, and again, bear in mind I actually see part of me in what you write, so I don't come from a place of judgment, but just trying to provide insights about what I see here.

[NarcsEverywhere]

Hey Riv3rW0lf,

You know, I think, a couple things. I need to depend on myself more. I think I can handle that, I just want the easy out, and it actually makes it worse to try to get external help so much, when I have experience dealing with things on my own. I can reach out when I am ready more.

I also, feel a lot of pressure to get my life together because of my situation, and I have been acting plenty, if anything, I've been too rash a lot of times. I like being methodical when possible, and thinking things through before I act, it tends to have better results.

I also am trying too hard to be positive, and be what others want to me to be, to try to avoid the pain and loneliness. I don't really need everyone to like me. It's not pleasant to be liked by trying to be what others want, I want to be liked by some people by being myself, not everyone, at the cost of myself.

I actually think I need to retool somethings, take time for myself, and think through what is working for me and isn't. I need a break from all this positivity. I do think I can force too much journaling on me, and that never works. I always find that journaling works best when you do it when you absolutely can't contain it anymore, or when you feel super ready to do it. I feel like I am forcing too much stuff into my life out of fear, and it's hurting me.

I'll be back later, hopefully when I am ready to talk more, so I can be more self assured, deal with more on my own, and be ready to actually, talk and just be myself, quirks, and negativity and all.

[NarcsEverywhere]

Yeah, I think you're right thought Riv3rW0lf,

It's because I have no one to talk to about this stuff, and my Dad gaslights me about it, and even gets all controlling back, for me being proud of myself, so I feel like I have to validate the entire thing myself, and then I get nervous about getting manipulated, so I'm hyper anxious. And I realized I am pushing myself too hard, which is why I am impulsive. And piling on a bunch of positivity and self-help, to try to overcome everything, it's sabotaging me.

I felt really depressed yesterday, gotta slow down and learn/do/accomplish/change things more sanely, I feel like I'm gonna pop, trying to be some saint and hero, and having trouble accepting myself as a person who is struggling, and preforming lower than I normally do, trying to kill myself to be someone I am proud of, but instead I'm sabotaging myself, expecting way too much of myself. I feel in the dumps coming to terms with this, but I guess I've been in the dumps before, so I'll survive, but it sure sucks.

I also made up with my sister, and father a bit, saying I love them and that I don't want to throw them out easily. I just felt super betrayed, but I don't want to give them up and suffer more loss, at least if there's a chance of working it out. I think I have this disconnect between an ideal (love, respect, and healthy relationships) and then what is possible, which is slow progress with those things.

Edit: Oh yeah, I realized that a part of the reason I second guessed that, is I am not used to standing up to stuff like that, and I love animals, and I'm a sucker for a sob story, it's part of what got me into this mess. I just thought of the poor doggy not getting his raincoat, and I know there are some exceptions where I think stealing is understandable, like to eat. So I second guessed it. I tend to be the type that thinking about what I do before and after I do things, that's just how I am, it's good, but I can definitely drive myself nuts with it sometimes, if I take it too far, which I have, as I've been paranoid of making mistakes.

[Notwendy]

Do you own your home or does your father? You mention the possibility of throwing him out? Who takes care of the home expenses, like utilities and so on? I am assuming it's a shared situation between the two of you? Your Dad would likely be getting social security at this point. It's certainly easier for people to share a living situation than to each be with their own.

What is your father's situation? Is he retired- if so, what did he do? Is he able to do things for himself or does he need help?

It seems like you feel pressure to do or be something other than what you are doing at the moment. I am not sure what you mean by too much "positivity" unless you are feeling you need to pretend all is well when you don't feel like it is. On the other hand- it is known that emotions follow thinking. Thinking about sad and difficult things can also lead to us feeling sad. I get what Riv3rW0lf mentioned - the thinking and rumination on things can lead to feeling sad.

[NarcsEverywhere]

It's not like I am against positivity, I like it, but you can't be perpetually positive, when you're going through grief, you need to work through all the emotions and some of that is sorrow, and depression, and because I felt unsafe, and burnt out, I didn't get time to feel those feelings.

I've been trying to strive my way into a better life too much, and some of it is unattainable now. So I need to enjoy the life I have now.

[Notwendy]

So I need to enjoy the life I have now.

Yes, exactly. It's not to discount grief- that is tough.

As you stated though- how to have some enjoyment right now. What can you do now that you would enjoy?

[NarcsEverywhere]

I’m doing stuff like walking, eating, drinking water, spending time with my pets, watching tv, trying to be low key, but not so low key that it sucks me down. Showering, maybe poker on my phone, gonna get groceries today, looking forward to better food. Just need some ease for a while. Probably do some self help in the evening.

[Notwendy]

These are all really good ways of self care. I want to highlight a couple of them because they have health benefits too. Walking and eating healthy food. Walking also helps with moods and also when you eat healthy food, you feel better physically and that helps with mood too. Leisure and self care are important. These two do additional benefits

[NarcsEverywhere]

Oh yeah definitely, dunno if I ate super healthy tonight, kind of indulging, since I normally don’t much. Playing my RPG on my 3ds for the first time in ages, I piled on so much work and inner work and self help that I think it kicked my butt. Need more leisure. I try to lift weights or walk or do chores most of the time. I’m not super negative always, just have been desperate for help here so focused on problems a lot.

What do you do for self care/sanity? Not Wendy

[Notwendy]

I try to eat healthy and so I cook a lot. I love to walk when the weather is nice. I tend to be a mix of liking to be with people but need alone time so watching shows on Netflix is a way to unwind. I can tell when I get very busy and don't have the alone time- so it's become one of the things I do for me.

[NarcsEverywhere]

I can relate to a lot of that. I love to cook, healthy or healthish food (sometimes not so healthy), but I've been limited on time, money, and sanity, so I've let some health concerns slip some, as trying to cook healthy, affordable and quickly, is difficult. But, I love to take my time doing a great job and enjoying the process, and relaxing and enjoying the food when I can.

Also I like to be social, but really, I am naturally introverted, even though I can be super affectionate (mostly with my pets) or a social butterfly, as my time alone is definitely the best thing for my sanity. Spending time with others, no matter how rewarding, tends to sap my energy, and I feel uncomfortable on an intimacy, effort or patience level, at a certain point.

Might follow your advice tonight, a healthy meal and some TV sounds good!