Would My BPD Mom Steal From Me?

[So Stressed]

My BPD Mom stays in my room when she visits.  Recently, I was getting ready to go out and looked for a piece of jewelry that my Mom had given me a few years ago.  It had belonged to my paternal grandmother and I cherished it. I couldn't find it.  I am very organized and everything has a place, so I knew where it should be. It's gone.  Then, I looked for a couple more things that Mom gave me that belonged to my grandmother. Gone. She is the only person who has been in my room.  I am horrified that my own mother might steal from me.  I have looked everywhere to make sure that I did not misplace these items and I can't find them. I have a very good memory and don't recall moving them.  They were not all in the same place and they were not the first 3 things that anyone else would take if they were breaking in to steal something.

Of the 3 items I noted missing, I don't care that much about 2 of them, but 1 of them was something I cared about and loved. 

I feel if I say anything, it will create a huge drama/conflict. If I just let her get away with it, I have given my power away.  Or, should I just say to myself, "It's only stuff, get over it." It is so disturbing and hurtful to think that my own mother would steal from me.

I have thought of just saying, "Mom, I feel so sad that I can't find that ring of Nana's that you gave me."  See what she says, but that might not have any effect at all.

It's Mothers Day, and I am trying to make it a good day, so not saying anything about this and just trying to give her a good Mothers Day while I process this.

Your thoughts on how to handle the theft?

[ForeverDad]

There can be a number of responses here.  I'll mention one subject here... Boundaries.  On our Tools and Skills workshop board we have a couple threads on practical Boundaries and examples.  Read them and ponder what it means.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329744.0

People with BPD (pwBPD) behaviors are very resistant to boundaries.  So though you can't force them with much success, what you can do is make yourself have Boundaries, ones which determine your response to your boundary's violations.  An overly simplified example could be "If you do or don't do ___ then I will or will not do ___."

In your case, the theft has already occurred.  Your choice is whether to pursue the matter or make a boundary henceforth.  Could you state that if she doesn't return the items, or the one you care about most, then she can't enter or stay in your room again when she visits?

Yes, she'll make a scene and will claim you're mistaken or ungrateful.  You decide what you will do.  But without a boundary then something like this will happen again.

[So Stressed]

Thanks Forever Dad!  I did go and look at the information on Boundaries at the link you provided.  I do have boundaries with Mom and I respect them.  But, it took a long time. As a child growing up, there were no boundaries. Mom doesn't really recognize any separation between us...she was always very enmeshed in her childrens' lives and there was no privacy.  Even now that we are all seniors, she expects to know things that are none of her business and expects to be in control.

From the Boundaries link, I found the following quotes that spoke to me:

" If you allow this boundary to be crossed, you are being unfaithful to your own values.  And if you allow your boundaries to be crossed on a continuous basis just to keep a relationship alive, you lose a great part of yourself, and your self-respect in the process.  That's a pretty high price to pay, and very difficult to get back."

"In my experience boundaries are crossed as a means of control.  Control and manipulation have no place in a healthy relationship.  Period.  Knowing when to walk away when your values have been trampled on is a very important part of having love and respect for yourself.  And in the end, the only person you are responsible for is yourself.  So be good to yourself!  You are worth it."

Of course, my values are that no one should steal from me nor would I steal from anyone.  When I discovered the missing items, I made sure that everything was secured so that nothing could be taken. I took all valuables out of my room and locked cupboards that could be locked. Still, there was manipulation on this current visit, I found her looking for stuff in my room.  Because we have been in such conflict lately, I decided not to confront her for now.  However, I am really angry and hurt that she would be so dishonest to steal back items she had given to her own daughter. I will not invite her back.

I guess I am struggling with whether a piece of jewelry is worth a conflict, especially when I know that confronting her will create drama, denial, accusations, and in the end no results.

[Notwendy]

I don't know about stealing but my BPD mother doesn't respect boundaries and she lies. I recall the shock I felt when I realized my mother has been lying to me, and it's probably similar to how you felt, because, we don't expect this from our mothers. When she has visited, one of our boundaries has been to lock up anything personal, because she goes around the house snooping through our things.

As Forever Dad says- we can't control what she does so we can only have our own boundaries. One would be to not have her in our house at all, but that is difficult when she visited with my father, who we did trust. So the other one was to lock up anything we didn't want her to see.

I understand wanting to confront your mother if not for the scenes but also with my mother, she wouldn't admit to it anyway. I did confront her about some lies and she said she didn't lie. So I know now I can't trust what she tells me.

The jewelry is a loss but for me the loss was trust. I don't trust my mother, and you now can't trust yours, which is difficult. Considering your mother may not admit to taking the jewelry, you can still tell her you know it is missing, without accusing her. Say something like " I can't find my ________" have you seen it anywhere in my room when you stayed here?" She may not admit to it, but she will know you know it's gone. Next boundary- she doesn't stay with you when she visits. You can then say " I am sorry mom but I am upset about not finding it and can't have people stay with me until I find it". This is the consequence. You have told her indirectly what that is. I think it's also accurate as you suspect it but don't have proof.

[So Stressed]

I recall the shock felt when I realized my mother has been lying to me, and it's probably similar to how you felt, because, we don't expect this from our mothers. When she has visited, one of our boundaries has been to lock up anything personal, because she goes around the house snooping through our things.

Yes, I was shocked, too, when I realized my Mom was lying to me. So, now I don't trust her and know that I can't believe anything she tells me. 

I understand wanting to confront your mother if not for the scenes but also with my mother, she wouldn't admit to it anyway. I did confront her about some lies and she said she didn't lie. So I know now I can't trust what she tells me.

The jewelry is a loss but for me the loss was trust. I don't trust my mother, and you now can't trust yours, which is difficult. Considering your mother may not admit to taking the jewelry, you can still tell her you know it is missing, without accusing her. Say something like " I can't find my ________" have you seen it anywhere in my room when you stayed here?" She may not admit to it, but she will know you know it's gone. Next boundary- she doesn't stay with you when she visits. You can then say " I am sorry mom but I am upset about not finding it and can't have people stay with me until I find it". This is the consequence. You have told her indirectly what that is. I think it's also accurate as you suspect it but don't have proof.

Yes, I feel that this is what I can do.  I am very certain that she did take the jewelry but I know she will deny it, so I think I will say something non accusatory so that she knows that I know.  Before she arrived this weekend, I did lock up and/or move all things that I thought she might take. Then, I still found her snooping. Twice when I went into my room to get something, I found a dresser drawer open, and once when I went in there, she was holding a bible that had belonged to my grandmother. It also was given to me years ago after my grandmother passed away.  She seems to have some interest in retrieving things that belonged to my father's mother, who Mom hated.

Anyway, it is just such a betrayal of trust to have your mother lie and steal from you. Very very disappointing.

[PinkPanther]

BPD individuals tend to justify their wrongdoing. They know it's not right to lie and steal but they will make an exception for their own behavior. I think they do things alot as a test too.

I used to live abroad and would keep certain things at my parents house in my room because my living situation was in limbo, I had multiple residences thought out the world and was trying to consolidate everything.

One year I came home to a number of things missing, knick knacks and some office items. I asked my mom about a few things and she said that my sister had them: that my sister visited and asked HER if she could have it cause she thought it was hers... Even though it was in my room. I was baffled by that yet it took me a long time to put together that pretty much my mom and my siblings were stealing from me and justifying it. I am a giving person but I expect someone to ask for something if they want it even if they believe I would likely give it to them anyway.

I did ask my sister about the particular item and she apologized but it was a constant in the back of my mind how my mom manipulated that situation and all between my siblings and I: she wanted everything to go through her. Even growing up my brother would constantly steal from me and lie about it. My mom would fuss at him ... But just how much of that did he learn from her? How much did she encourage?

I am sorry you are experiencing this. I think it's very hard to accept that your parent is capable of basically what resorts to stooping very low when they don't have to. It's a byproduct of extreme selfishness.

I just stopped leaving anything of value around for my mom and siblings to take. That means, safes, storage units, safe deposit boxes at the bank etc. Talking does no good... if they truly want it they will justify it to themselves. Cause they just deny or make it seem like you are crazy for suggesting they are lying about something.

[zachira]

For many people with BPD, having control over material things and money seems to be a way to replace their inability to have people in their lives by loving and respecting them. My mother with BPD never stopped talking about all the things her children would inherit from her when she died, even though she was not a wealthy woman, and the things that she did leave her children turned out to be of very little value when professionally assessed. My aunt with BPD would not give her daughter the ring she inherited from her grandmother. My brother with BPD has kept most of the things that were inherited from my brother and mother, and is threatend by any discussion of division of these things.
I can't imagine the hurt you feel from having your mother steal from you. Above all, you know you can not trust her to not steal from you again. It is one thing to be lied to, as we cannot always easily outright prove the lies, so perhaps there is still hope for some kind of partially satisfactory relationship. With stealing, you know what is missing and in your case, you know your mother was the only person with the opportunity to steal these things, so there is no likely other narrative other than she stole from you. The heartbreak continues to increase until we set the boundaries that work for us (not for them) in our disordered relationships. It is heartbreaking to have to set these kinds of boundaries with the mother who was supposed to love us unconditionally and a lifelong loss.

[Notwendy]

For many people with BPD, having control over material things and money seems to be a way to replace their inability to have people in their lives by loving and respecting them.

This makes sense as my mother is controlling over money and material items. Another possible reason (and it isn't an excuse- stealing is stealing) is that, parents with PD's see children as extensions of themselves, not as separate individuals, and so your mother may assume that what is yours is also hers if she wants it. Same with snooping- doesn't consider your boundaries with privacy.

I don't know of examples of stealing but my mother has done other things with material items- keeping things that were gifted to me and not letting me have them. She's also kept items as punishment. She controlled any money my father may have wanted to give me to help with school expenses. She will ask me if I want something of hers and if I say yes, she won't let me have it.

While there's a history of behaviors of hers in the past, I think it's the lying and disregard that has influenced a relationship with her in the present. I don't trust anything she tells me. I don't share personal information with her and I don't trust how she will behave. I do care about her in the humane sense- and hope she's OK but any resemblance of a closer relationship is illusion with her.

[So Stressed]

This makes sense as my mother is controlling over money and material items. Another possible reason (and it isn't an excuse- stealing is stealing) is that, parents with PD's see children as extensions of themselves, not as separate individuals, and so your mother may assume that what is yours is also hers if she wants it. Same with snooping- doesn't consider your boundaries with privacy.

Thank you ... yes ... I have learned from this site and related reading that BPD moms do see their children as extensions of themselves, and that is why we are so enmeshed in each others' lives. Mom has interfered in or voiced her strong opinions about everything I have done in life. She is rarely able to say anything positive about me or to me.  So, your suggestion that she sees my possessions as hers makes good sense, especially when she gave them to me in the first place.

I am really upset that I cannot trust her, and I have known that at various levels for a long time.  I remember her lying to me about something when I was a little girl and being very confused and feeling a little crazy because she taught me not to lie, but she seemed to be lying to me.  It has escalated lately because she is old and she has become sneaky, manipulative, and she lies more frequently. She now steals, too.

I am getting over it.  I did say something to her that was nonconfrontational but let her know that I knew that specific things were missing. I am not going to create a huge drama/conflict over it. 

[zachira]

You are wise not to create drama or conflict over the stealing while letting your mother know that you noticed your things went missing. It is painful to learn that our mothers with BPD do not see their children as separate people and feel no need to repair the relationships, whereas healthy people want to resolve conflicts and truly apology for the pain they cause others so they can have meaningful loving close relationships. As we become more distant from our mother with BPD by setting healthy boundaries that keep us safer, the relationship becomes more about actions we take for our safety and we lose hope of ever having the kind of relationship children have with a loving mother.  

[ForeverDad]

I suspect that my stepgrandmother was uBPD.  They're both gone now, but I recall as a young adult I was doing religious volunteer work.  I had just enough money for my needs.  One day he gave me $5 on the sly, would have been in the 1980s, and told me not to tell his wife.  Later I shared incident with my mother and she said SGM had so much money that she had to pay taxes on the interest.  My mother's own words, SGM saw her money as Hers and his retirement money as Theirs.

I don't recall my grandfather giving me anything else, except for food from his beloved garden, gentle soul that he was.  That $5 bill might translate to $20 or $30 today, yet money was part of the control she had over him.

[Notwendy]

I don't recall my grandfather giving me anything else, except for food from his beloved garden, gentle soul that he was.  That $5 bill might translate to $20 or $30 today, yet money was part of the control she had over him.

My Dad too! I recall asking for something that cost about $5 and his reply was "Did BPD mother say you could have it?" I didn't think about it much as this was the "normal" in our family but, Dad earned the income- he could have decided whether or not to buy it for me but it wasn't about the amount, but he didn't want to risk upsetting BPD mother. For her, money is a form of control.

Even with his own possession- he wanted to give us something that belonged to him and we had to sneak it out of the house when BPD mother wasn't looking. And mine as well- BPD mother was complaining that we still had some of our things in her house. I tried to take some of them with me, in response to her complaints- and she ran after me screaming "don't you dare take anything out of my house". She recently moved to assisted living and has something of mine with her. She claims I gave it to her. I really don't recall if I did or didn't. But she doesn't need the item, it's in her closet. It isn't valuable cost wise but I would want it if I thought I could have it.

[TelHill]

My mom stole and/or hid my things from me. It's hard to know what's on their minds when they do this. I never let her close to valuable items.

I know my brother has a touch of what mom has and his adult child does too. They've both taken things from me.

I wonder if part of being a sticky fingers is wanting to be me -  a normal person who doesn't have bpd or a personality disorder. Just thinking out loud.

[Riv3rW0lf]

The thing is too that she didn't steal just anything ... She stole things she likely knew had emotional values for you.

My BPD mother would demand I give things my grandmother gave me to my niece, for exemple, or things she herself gave me but that used to belong to my grandmother. This was her way of keeping control. I was a terrible person because this was for the next generation... I quickly figured the best answer was : I am keeping it for my daughter. Even when I didn't have any : for my future children...

I learned early that my BPD mother does not give things, she loans them, and will take them back or demand they are transferred to someone else, because she ultimately keeps control of everything. It would piss her right off when I'd say no. It would not have surprised me that she could have just taken them if she'd have the chance.

It's not stealing if it's "yours". Twisted emotional control, yet again.

[TelHill]

I meant to add this to my earlier post. I had to learn not to react to this. My father never believed me or wanted to believe me. It sounds strange to family or friends who don't have a bpd loved one. Lastly, it's a tasty morsel to my bpd mom to have an argument.

[Notwendy]

My father never believed me or wanted to believe me. It sounds strange to family or friends who don't have a bpd loved one. Lastly, it's a tasty morsel to my bpd mom to have an argument.

My best guess is he didn't want to believe you. He lives with her and so he would be aware of her behavior.

[Outdorenthusiast]

I am sorry to hear that.  I know personally how frustrating and damaging that broken trust can be.  My MIL would lie and steal from us constantly.  After the past two years of being on this board, I have learned that likely she has Histrionic personality disorder.  For us - she stole always the things she liked - with no remorse.  We confronted her many times, but she always denied it, and sometimes would try to make us feel guilty for even thinking it.  We put boundaries up, hid things, but she pushed through and the pattern continued.  Finally - she is no longer allowed to stay at our house, and for the last 10 years she has been no contact with us.  There is more there, but the symptom of self centered stealing, and the manipulative lying do hurt.  Boundaries are important.

[So Stressed]

While there's a history of behaviors of hers in the past, I think it's the lying and disregard that has influenced a relationship with her in the present. I don't trust anything she tells me. I don't share personal information with her and I don't trust how she will behave. I do care about her in the humane sense- and hope she's OK but any resemblance of a closer relationship is illusion with her.

Thanks Notwendy! This is pretty much what I have realized and I am so disappointed in myself that I was not willing to see this earlier in my life.  Maybe I could have saved myself a lot of emotional pain.  One of my women friends who had a long difficult on again-off again relationship with a dishonest & abusive husband has reminded me that I once said to her, "If you didn't let him come back the first time  you threw him out, you would be over him by now."  Well, I guess I should have been more observant of what was going on in my own life. 

I was so indoctrinated by bpd Mom.  She was always the martyr who's life was so tragic because of my father's alcoholism and her sad childhood, so I would do anything to protect her...and, apparently, sacrifice the better part of my life for her.

[TelHill]

My best guess is he didn't want to believe you. He lives with her and so he would be aware of her behavior.

Yes, Wendy, I think you're right. Have had problems in the past not recognizing toxic relationships due to doubting my perceptions. Am much better at it now but my father's actions could be part of why this difficulty existed for me.

.  

[Notwendy]

Yes, Wendy, I think you're right. Have had problems in the past not recognizing toxic relationships due to doubting my perceptions. Am much better at it now but my father's actions could be part of why this difficulty existed for me.

Me too. What confused me was that if I said anything about my mother, the adults in my life didn't believe me. Or they'd say something punitive such as "how can you say that about your mother!"

My father would try to smooth things over- "of course your mother loves you".

No, she doesn't. I'm someone who could be useful to her. If I am not being useful to her, she has no interest in me.

A while back, a local DV shelter was selling T shirts with the slogan "love doesn't hurt". While I have not had the experience of the kind of physical abuse we associate with DV, that slogan somehow stood out to me. How is it that my BPD mother could "love" me and also treat me the way she does? How could my father both love me and also disregard how my mother treats me? If love doesn't hurt, how could that be love?

Fortunately I was able to recognize big red flags in relationships such as overt abuse or addictions and avoid them. But I didn't recognize the less obvious - being treated poorly- because that was the norm in my family. I didn't know how to stand up for myself and deferred to the other person. I have done a lot of work on these behaviors- and the co-dependent behaviors to change this.

[Methuen]

Would My BPD Mom Steal From Me?

She is going to have her own logic which makes sense to her.  Also, keep in mind that pwBPD don't have boundaries.  Lastly, they don't differentiate their children from themselves (meaning anything that is ours is also theirs)...and... they also tend to be egocentric.

If she gave it to you a few years ago, and then recently stayed in your room and saw it while she was there, she could still think of it as hers, even though she gave it as a gift to you in the past, especially if she now has some use for it which you might not know about.

For example, about 17 years ago, H and I bought the family property from my mom a year after my dad died because she couldn't keep up with the maintenance, and she wanted to move to a smaller house right in town.  I was close to my dad, and purchasing it was a way of continuing his legacy.  During the purchase agreement, there was a big discussion around the contents of the shop behind the house, which dad had used for his home based business.  It was full of "stuff" for his trade business.  A lot of "stuff".  My mom couldn't deal with it, and just wanted to walk away from the problem. She said she was heiring it to my H.  She had always hated the shop, and was thrilled to not have to deal with the contents of it. About 15 truck and trailer loads of scrap and stuff went to a salvage company from that shop after we moved in.  You get the idea.  

A few years later, she watched the house for us while we went on a road trip with our kids.  She didn't stay overnights in the house, but she watered the garden outside, and had a key to water plants and bring in the mail.  

Some time after we got home from our holidays (maybe even a few months or more), my H went to use his grinder in the shop.  He couldn't find it.  He looked everywhere.  It didn't make sense, because who looses a grinder?  It's not like he could have misplaced it... (they're big and heavy and don't just grow legs...).  He ended up using the smaller old grinder that had been my dad's, which was still tucked away in the shop.  

About a year after that (or more), my mom breaks up with her boyfriend, and she goes to his place and takes back a bunch of gifts she had given him (go figure).  One day my H was at her house mowing her lawn, and mom asks H to go to her car and get some heavy things out of her trunk.

H opens her trunk expecting to find a sack of flour from her shopping, but there in her trunk is his grinder staring back at him.

?

When he asked her what his grinder (which he had been looking for since a very long time ago) was doing in the trunk of her car (keep in mind he had purchased it with his own money years before he and I even met ), she explained it had been my dad's grinder, and while we were on holidays, she had taken her boyfriend into the shop and given him some gifts, since the shop had once been hers too. Apparently she said it with a tone implying, "why was H even asking her this?"  The fact that she had given away the wrong grinder wasn't acknowledged.  There was no apology.  Nor did she understand that she had agreed to walk away from the problem of the shop and all it's inventory, which also meant the contents were not hers to give away without first speaking to us.  Nor did she acknowledge that the tools which belonged to my husband before we moved there were now in that shop.  She just didn't get it, and wasn't going to talk about it.  In her mind, it was hers and if she wanted to gift something to her boyfriend to impress him, she could do that.  It had once been her shop (only legally - it was my dad's shop and she hated going inside of it...).  The fact that she asked my H to take the grinder out of her trunk shows just how clueless she was.  If she had known it was wrong to take it in the first place, there is no way she would have asked H to take it out of her trunk. No way.

She would never see it as stealing.  

We saw it as taking something that was never hers to take.  

pwBPD see it as taking something that is theirs to take because they have a use for it, and they have some twisted logic which they understand and which benefits them.

It's a matter of perception, and very blurred boundaries.

Trying to have a conversation, explain, defend, rationalize, argue, or justify is not only a complete waste of time, but will escalate the situation, as I know you already know.  H walked away, and was just glad to have his grinder back.  To say H was in shock was an understatement.  He learned something about his MIL first hand... primarily that she really couldn't be trusted (she stole his grinder!). He had been hearing my stories over our marriage, but this was probably one of the first major boundary crossings that affected him instead of me.

If mom hadn't had a fight with her bf, my H would have never got his grinder back.  When H offered mom my deceased dad's smaller grinder for bf (after she got back together with him), she didn't want it.

Our response to this, was to never ask mom to house sit again.  That was our new (silent) boundary. We didn't discuss it with her.  Instead, we changed all the locks.  When she offered to housesit again the next year, we said it was too much work for her (she was in her early 70's), and we started getting university student's we new to housesit for us.  Ironically, mom tried to persuade us to ask one of her best friends who lives close by to house sit for us.  Fat chance.

So yes, they will steal (our word), but no, they don't see it as stealing.  We also know they lie, but they don't see it as lying either.

Your mom will have her own logic as to why she took that jewelry, and you may never know what it was.  

I am so sorry for the loss.  

[So Stressed]

Thanks Methuen. I understand.  It was pretty disappointing to think she would steal from me, but I now also have a (silent) boundary about having her in my home.