Can someone reassure me about detachment here?

[Riv3rW0lf]

I mean, normally I actually shrug off the majority of people’s judgements and pretty much just try to be myself, and realize what you’re saying, and take very little personally. It’s why I have a lot of convoluted opinions about things, damned the social pressures. But lately like I said, all this baggage causes there to be more errors, because it’s hard to sift through everything and have clarity. Just having difficulty and can’t be at the top of my game now.

You know what they say... What is different from a regular person and the joker from Batman ? A very, very bad day.

I always have an underlying fear of falling down, of something terrible happening that would destroy what I've been building. And it's always a possibility.

We are all vulnerables. I seem to recall you've had some bad luck? We like to focus on our own power here, I do anyway, because focusing on what I don't have power over just give me anxiety... but truth is there is also life and luck. The situation you are in doesn't define you, but it sure as hell impacts you. I have to believe that someone working hard enough to get better and improve their situation, will get some help from life itself. But maybe there is a bit of magical thinking in there, I don't know. I need to believe there is more to it than luck, but sometimes maybe there isn't.

Just saying... You've had a couple rough years, went through some bad stuff, and your situation is not ideal right now... It's ok to lose our footing. We are human, we are never completely impermeable to others even at the best of our games, so when we are low...

[NarcsEverywhere]

I agree it’s bad luck and getting involved with the wrong people, and not healing from one thing before moving onto the next. Which is what I normally do, also I thought I was ready for more intimacy and tried sharing and connecting to help heal more, it all left me vulnerable. I do think I’ll recover.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I agree it’s bad luck and getting involved with the wrong people, and not healing from one thing before moving onto the next. Which is what I normally do, also I thought I was ready for more intimacy and tried sharing and connecting to help heal more, it all left me vulnerable. I do think I’ll recover.

So.. I'm curious.

Did you always have agoraphobia? Or did it develop in the last couple years? Do you know what led to it?

[NarcsEverywhere]

I just got it when I was a kid, I got jumped by 10 people and it terrified me, and then it got better, then worse, then better, then worse, etc. I was improving at it a lot, then COVID hit. I think some of it is abuse related and some of it is coping by me pulling back when things feel overwhelming.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I'm sorry. That's brutal.

I didn't develop a full blown agoraphobia but definitely lots of social anxiety that I have to work through.

It's weird. I started judo classes a couple months back, and I really like it. It really helped put me more at ease in the world. Except when it was time to have a beer with my judo partners. The more I like people, the more scared I get of letting them know me. Those are people I fight with, laugh with, get thrown by and throw. In a judo context, when we all have our judo gi, I can manage, there is a purpose, it makes it easier I guess. I mean, seriously, have you ever watched judo? We are quite literally hugging each other all the time, to choke the other, but still  

Then there was a pizza and beer night when the school closed for the summer and I was terrified. I didn't know what to wear, I didn't know how to act, I felt silly... I didn't have my judo gi to hide behind, if it makes sense? It took the persona away, and I didn't know who to be anymore. They are all friendly people, one of the nicest tribe I've had the pleasure to join, and it made me feel terrified. I was terrified they wouldn't like me as me, I felt terrified they would see through me, I felt terrified they'd reject me after seeing who I was.

I think, over time, I developped a strong capacity to be a cameleon, which can only be achieved on a superficial level. And so, that's where I stay with most people. I have no idea HOW to move a relationship from casual to friendship. No idea, at all. It's very awkward for me. I thought that was odd, but I think this is more regular than we think...

With Zacchira, we were once talking about how, biologically, we evolved to live in small tribes of about thirty individuals. Yet we go through life meeting millions. I think it can be overwhelming for the more sensitive souls, I think.

I keep telling myself I truly only need one or two persons I can fully trust. The rest is background noise. This is my way of dealing with my own limitations when it comes to developing a social life. I am a loner. And I don't think this is something I can actually change.

Just making conversation here; it's probably not really what you experience. Also trying to tell you you aren't the only one with trust issues, pulling back when things feel overwhelming.

[NarcsEverywhere]

Hey Riv3rW0lf,

Nice to hear from you. I can relate to the Judo thing, in some contexts I do have a persona, I find it useful, it feels like it's part of me, it feels genuine though. Like, I use it to have a sense of direction, so I can get a job done, it makes complete logical sense to me. I consider it one of my "modes". Like when I am working hard, I am in worker bee mode, it's fine, it's just a part of me that I am expressing in a more controlled and directed context. It allows me to function with people in effective ways.

I'm interested in martial arts, but I dunno if I'll ever do it in a dedicated way, still think defending myself is a priority though, so might learn a few tricks sometime, on top of trying to get more fit, since I think it helps you get in touch of your body, own your power, and helps you feel safer in the world, along with being fun and involved, and can even be expressive.

I suppose I am less comfortable just being myself, but I've done it many times, but I tend to do it more casually, like you do, because really throwing myself out there can be terrifying. I'm a very social person when I am in the right mood, considerate, friendly, thoughtful, but I also gravitate towards alone time and don't really want to be the life of the party, that's too much damned work to manage, I think as I've gotten older, I am more reserved and like to be more personal in small settings and with a few people, like you. I can totally see how a party could be uncomfortable, at this point it would be for me. But I really need to learn to have fun in at least some settings... I used to like basketball as a kid, and think that'd be a fun things to do casually, to get exercise and have fun, but kinda scary to me to go around a bunch of people with it.

On a side note, I had some success with feeling better last night, by breathing through my nose, journaling out tons of anger, and when I got too tired to do it anymore, doing a loving prayer to myself (non spiritual/god oriented to be honest), saying I hope I get what I found to be my priority. This allowed me to sleep, and feel better, as my breathing has been terrible and unable to calm down, due to a lot of negativity and trauma coming up. It's still weird dealing with this hallucination. I try not to focus on it, but it can be distracting sometimes, at least it's only one or two sounds and not some other insanity. I find that when I ground myself well or throw myself into things heavily, I don't notice it at all, so it could be worse.

Hope you're doing well today,
Thanks for the conversation.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Hi Narcs,

Thank you, yes I am doing well today.

Modes is a nice way to refer to it. I call those "parts"; I like "modes" too... I imagine now one specific part could have various modes as well...

I read on another thread you write a lot, and would like to work on short stories at some point? I used to write a lot too when I was younger, studied litterature, I wanted to be a writer. I used to write and compose songs too, I still play piano, but I stopped singing now. Am not sure when. And it's ok. I guess I replaced it all with sports... Am trying to learn to do cart wheels right now.  

Why am I saying this... Ah yes, I wanted to point out the sensitivity of your soul. I think some people can see more, go deeper, and when they do, it's not that it's not true, it's that it is very hard to juggle all those parts and modes and truths. I don't know if that will make sense to you?

You describe it well... How we have to express ourselves in a controlled mode to function with people... And for me, where two modes clash, I find it hard to regain footing, like judo mode vs socializing mode. It's like, I am all and none of those modes at the same time.. and I am too aware of it, of the fragmentation of my soul, I am too aware of myself and others, and it makes socializing very hard.

I don't think everyone sees the world this way and can understand this... A poetic view of the world, which can make life lonely... Maybe you know this poem from Beaudelaire? L'albatros.

Le poète est semblable aux princes des nuées
Qui hante la tempête, et se rit de l'archer
Exilé sur le sol au milieu des hués
Ses ailes de géant l'empêchent de marcher

(Here are various English translations as well as the complete original French version https://fleursdumal.org/poem/200)

I've had to cancel this mode of me over time to stay sane, and to feel less depressed... I've had to stop digging too deep into things.  It's easier to manage myself this way... I guess, like you, I have to keep busy, keep my mind from wandering too far. It takes a lot of discipline, and I sometimes wonder if our heightened awareness of things, and sensitivity, are what might be making it harder to be understood, to reach out and touch someone else, it's lonely... Like different languages, if you will...

So you see, you mentioned people on here maybe being too far out in their healing journey to understand your trauma... I think it might be language difference... And I also think it is possible and maybe easier to souls like us to learn to speak their language, than them learning to speak ours. It requires a lot of adaptation from us though... Which is hard when we are low.

And I am aware, many people reading this will think me condescending, but I don't care, I want to speak truly to you today... From one very fragmented sensitive soul to another.

What are those hallucinations you are writing about?

I am grateful you are feeling better today.

[NarcsEverywhere]

Hey, Riv3rw0lf, nice to hear from you, had a hell of a day and needed a break, just a lot of anxiety, and confidence issues, but I muddled through as messy as it was and got through. Totally enjoy talking to you, but I feel nervous about it I guess.

I try to keep balance by moderation, exercise, distractions,, and trying to ground myself and pace myself. It’s messy as hell when I am off balance a lot, but I normally it works really well, I need to be much more practical, it’s helped me in the past.

I think I do have a deep, sensitive side, but it has to be tempered or it drives me nuts. So I go through my phases with things, I get what that poem was saying, I need to be more simple if people need that. But not always I think. I try to work with people how they are, but it’s harder now, that I feel more off often.

You’ve been so tolerant and you reinstalled confidence into me when I was having a lot of doubt, I’ll try to remember.that you said that, so thanks a lot for both of those things.

It’s like I want to be passionate when I need to or when I am ready, but then, I want dispassion to stay sane, it’s why my home base is moderation and practicality. I think I need that so bad right now, might need to tone down my passions and bide my time more, until I am doing better, reminding myself that my passions aren’t going anywhere, I can return to them when the time is right, glad for the reminder.

I do feel like we have a lot in common, it’s nice to get that, as I am used to the opposite. I think what makes life lonely for me is my independent mindedness, and convictions. But I don’t regret those things, still, in this case they could get me into trouble, because I am higher needs than normal, normally depend on myself just fine.

Oh I just sometimes have a beeping or a faint sound of frogs in my head, started months ago, when I had an insane day with my Dad and there was frogs outside and I felt overwhelmed. I have a slight hope I can get it to eventually go away. But I try not to worry about it.

Oh, and I want to write books that could spread wisdom, it seems like the most practical way for me to help people, in a way that works for me, and I think I have a lot to offer, when I am doing better.

How was your day, what do you play on the piano, how long have you been playing?  I like to sing, but I mix it up, sometimes I get tired of a sweet song and ruin it by singing new lines, making jokes, keeps my soul from soaring too high.

Thanks for being sweet to me, I think I both need it and fear it.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Hey Narcs,

You are awfully honest. So I will allow myself to be honest with you: you aren't the only one with a strong "pull back" instinct when conversations get too close to "realness". When you didn't answer with your usual speed there, for a minute, I thought I had pushed too much and considered using the board a bit less for a while, I logged out, and realized this morning this was a silly reaction, just traumatized me acting up again.

I also have confidence issues, and I also have anxiety about how people will perceive what I share, what I say. It's just that I don't normally write about it, to keep the "healthy persona" in place. I found, over time, that people are often uncomfortable with straightforwardness and authenticity. I sometimes think it's because they don't experience it, but now I wonder if maybe it is just fear of exposing it.

I hear you about needing dispassion to stay sane. After literature, I went into a scientific field. Learned mathematics, developped my rational brain. Learning new languages affect how we think. Mathematic is a language. It actually worked in balancing myself out a bit more. Keep the artist in me in check for a while. I do feel less passionate about things... Which kinda makes the lows a bit less low somehow? All this to say : I really get you as well in your need to be more practical.

And yes, I also try to get by mostly by myself, and I can see how this is both a blessing and a curse. We can't always manage on our own... But we do live in a culture where it is very hard to connect, and connection is scary.

You know... I have NO IDEA how I'd survived being with my mother the way you have to stay with your father right now. I can understand the anxiety, the stress, the hallucinations... I spent two weeks with her two years ago, and only two weeks got me into a complete mess. I kept having nosebleeds because of the anxiety, I felt confused, scared, small... I didn't know down from up anymore. Being in constant contact with an abuser, especially an abusive parent, really wakes the traumatized child within us up, and it's hard to manage it all. I think you are doing great so far. Consider that your passions might not me the problem, more so the constant triggering back to an emotionally terrible place. You are doing great, all things considered, being able to ground you back the way you do it. I couldn't, ended up leaving her house like a thief and never saw her again...

I've been playing piano, on and off, all my life. I play a mix of the same songs mostly, my own compositions, some songs from Yann Tiersen (Le fabuleux destin d'Amelie Poulin), some songs from video games and movies I liked... Most have a bit of sadness and nostalgia in them.. this is just my base, my main emotion, the one I use piano to let out and not get stuck with. These days I am learning a song from Skyrim I really like: Secunda.

It also feels good to me to connect with someone at a less superficial level.

I've read somewhere else you played some video games too, or am I mistaken?

[NarcsEverywhere]

Hey, I will respond to you more when I have the bandwidth. I try to listen to Chet Baker when I am sad, The Wall is okay if I am up to that much deep stuff, or Norah Jones. I like lots of music, but the low key stuff keeps me more relaxed, so I gravitate towards it, so I’m partial to Jazz for that reason.

Maybe I will check out the Skyrim song, that’s funny, you know, I’ve been wanting to play a game, and I’ve chosen that to play, since I never beat it, it’s simple enough to do, and has enough customization to keep my mind occupied. Probably make a mage or some 2 handed build, I like melee, but it got repetitive last time, and I got bored, but maybe I need a bit of repetitive clicking right now. Also I love creating builds, I kinda of get obsessed with making them.

My favorite genres are RPGs and Walking Simulators, the latter since they are low key, emotional and relaxing. My favorites being What Became of Edith Finch, Firewatch and The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, my favorite RPG growing up was Xenogears, for its story, and more recently Legend of Grimrock 2, for its puzzles and fun exploration and customization mechanics. What are your favorite games and genres?

Keeping it light to day, try not to take it personally if I’m flakey, you know I am going through a lot, and I don’t see myself just ghosting you without a good reason or explaining myself. I don’t like promises, too much pressure, but I’d find that highly unlikely.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Hey Narcs,

No worries. Just to clarify, I don't expect anything anymore. The thoughts I had about "pushing too much" and "wanting to pull back" are left overs from another time, if you will. I wanted to convey to you they still exist within me, and they always will, parts born from my history... but I pretty much have them all under control now. I work a lot on myself to accept I don't have control over others, only over myself. Mostly, when I share something now, I detach from it and don't expect anything from anyone, but am welcoming to whatever comes next. I guess, I wanted to share that : those anxious, more controlling parts never completely cease to exist, but they become manageable.

I have never played Legend of Grimrock, but I have to admit I am also a RPG kind of gal. My forever best RPG is Final Fantasy VII. I must have completed it at least three or four times, the history used to give me shivers... I just could relate to Cloud so very much. I haven't found another game yet that has such a deep story line and complex characters. But I've liked many others. My favorite series was, by far, Mass Effect (except for the fourth, damn EA destroying my perfect game over time...). Really enjoyed Dragon Age and Kingdom of Amalur as well... I could honestly go on and on about many RPGs, my life used to revolve around those games. Now I seldom have time to play video games anymore, but I still hold them dear... they pretty much saved my sanity when I was younger.

I did play Firewatch; haven't played the other two though. Skyrim was great for that : walking. Sometimes I would play, and would just... wander, not using the fast travel, just to enjoy the music and serenity of the travel.

As for music, I agree The Wall is kind of unavoidable. I like Nora Jones too, her album "Come away with me" is actually my "Christmas music" album, the one I always put on to decorate my Christmas tree (!). It just fits perfectly. I am more inclined toward folk music, with Ben Howard being one of favorite singers since I discovered him in 2020, watching The Walking Dead. I listened a bit to Chet Baker though, and I admit I do listen to that genre at times too, especially when I cook.

Again though, don't pressure yourself to answer me just because I said I "reacted". My "safe adult" part pretty much holds all those more crazy parts in line now  , so don't worry about me. Just hit me whenever you feel like chatting.

[NarcsEverywhere]

Hey Riv3rW0lf,

I hope you're okay, I have been wanting to talk to you, but my dog has an infection, and honestly, it's been stressful, and I tend to worry too much, even if I try not to, plus it's been some work. So I will get back to you when I feel a little better. I want to respond extensively, when I feel like I have the bandwidth.

Hope you have a good day

[Riv3rW0lf]

Hey Riv3rW0lf,

I hope you're okay, I have been wanting to talk to you, but my dog has an infection, and honestly, it's been stressful, and I tend to worry too much, even if I try not to, plus it's been some work. So I will get back to you when I feel a little better. I want to respond extensively, when I feel like I have the bandwidth.

Hope you have a good day

Hey Narcs,

I am sorry to hear about your dog. I hope he  gets better soon.

Wishing you well, talk to you soon.

[NarcsEverywhere]

Hey Riv3rw0lf,

Been wanting to talk to you, and a bit nervous about taking this break from you, even though I know that it’s healthy and normal to do that, because I don’t want this to detour our budding connection. I’ve enjoyed getting to know you and find it cool that we have a lot in common. I still think my consistency will be messy though.

My dog seems okay, but not in the clear yet, so still concerned. Yeah, it’s insanely hard having subconscious triggers within my own home, like if I go to the back room to smoke, I hear it more often, since that’s where it happened, plus there’s some with the BPD ex friend neighbor too. I think all things considered I’ve been insanely resilient and strong, from daily persistence, still too hard on myself, and it’s no cake walk. How does your mother act?

I loved Final Fantasy VII growing up, last time I replayed it, years ago, I too loved Cloud, and how deep and melancholy his story was. And when Aeris died it broke my heart, and when she did the life stream at the end, I must admit, it was enchanting and touched me. I also loved doing the cheesy w summon Knights of the Round on weapons and such. Did you play the remake?I Moogles are the greatest, so are Chocobos, so adorable, did you also play Final Fantasy IIi? That’s one of my favorites too. I’ve played that series since the NES. Haven’t played Mass Effect heavily, but it looks really good and I’d like to finish it sometime, same with Dragon Age Origins. I want to finish all these games that I didn’t finish because of trauma and stress, but dunno when I’ll have the time and energy. Mostly I just finish Fallout games and walking sims.

Yeah Come Away With Me is a great album! Glad you have a creative outlet, it really makes me feel like I can individualize myself to create and express, and find my uniqueness.

Yeah, maybe my passions aren’t always the issue, but I definitely need to find ways to moderate emotions, so as to stay sane.

Hope you have a great day. Let me know how you’ve been doing.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Hey Narcs,

Yes I have played FFIII as well, the original though. I haven't completed any of the remake. I would have really liked to play the remake of FFVII, but I now only have a PC for gaming, and between the children and my business, seldom have time to enjoy this hobby anymore. I'm also very conservative and I fear doing the remake, I fear they might have changed, unwillingly, the overall feel of the game. Remember when Cloud is sick? And Tifa looks for him everywhere, and they have to rebuild his memory together so he can find himself, and remember who he is. Just such a profound game, I fear the remake.

The other final fantasy I really enjoyed as a kid was the VI, I loved Terra so very much. I rooted for her and it broked my heart she never got Locke, who preferred Celes in the end... Terra was burdened by her immense power, but in the end, she embraced it and her responsibility toward the world. It was a beautiful character.

Sorry about your dog, I know how strongly we can need them. Still convinced my cat saved me when I was at my worst, just by being there and needing me to take care of her. I had some very bad thoughts back then, and she was pretty much all I had. I had friends, sure, but no real connection, it was all very superficial. She is still here, older. Now that I have children the needs changed though, the relationship changed. Sometimes I feel bad for her... But then, I realize she is never alone, there is so much life in our house... She is ok. I wonder if she remembers all the attention she used to get and miss it at times. Who knows what goes on in a cat's head...

Don't worry for taking breaks. Think about it this way : people used to correspond via letter mail, and the letters could take weeks to cross a continent or the sea, and they still had connection and continued conversation. So what is a couple days, truly? If anything taking a break can ensure you don't run out of conversation !

You absolutely can individuaze yourself and you will. You are already on your way.

As to how my mother acts... It depends which part of me you ask too. She is mainly unstable and go from completely exuberant to being kind and "compassionate" to victim mode to raging queen in the span of a couple of minutes. The raging queen always terrorized me, and she is always lurking in the background.

I've been well otherwise, very busy. I am managing the kids and the house by myself this summer, H had to leave for work. He might be able to come back on weekends, but we don't know when. It's a lot, but my children are great children, both very kind and helpful in nature. They are amazing to be around, even though conversation is somewhat limited with them. So I come here a bit more than usual to get some real adult conversations I guess.

I also have a ... Weird ... Neighbor. And the dynamic with her and another one is really strange, I have a hard time putting my finger on what is happening, but my spidey sense are tingling, so I am leaving it at a very superficial level, and even then, I'm not sure how safe this is for me. We have children the same age so I try to manage those as best I can. Yesterday though I met someone else that live a bit further from my house. It remains superficial talks, but she seems more real, and she also has children same age as mine, so might give me a nice change when the immediate neighbors get to much to handle for me.

You never really gave much info on the story with your neighbor. I remember she was abusive with her pets... I'm not sure what happened with you? If you ever feel like talking about it.

Talk to you soon, Narcs.

[NarcsEverywhere]

Hey Riv3rw0lf,

Yeah, I remember that part of the story in FF7, it’s sweet how she went with him, and I can relate to feeling lost. And by FF3, I meant VI, in America it was called three when I got it. I loved all the Espers, Terra was great, and I named Locke after myself since I related as a thief, since I shoplifted a lot as a kid.  

Oh, well I do think I’ve individualized a ton, but I suppose I will even more as time goes on, I just looked for support in all the wrong places. I’ve been independent minded my whole life, it’s isolated me, but made me stronger, sounds like you suffer the same blessing and curse.

Yeah, it’s hard to know what they think, I love my pets and give almost every day, I just wish my dad was more caring to them, he could be worse, but a lot falls on me with it all. I think their memories aren’t as clear, but maybe subconsciously he remembers, that’s my guess. If you still see him and love him, and you’re both happy, that’s the important thing, but I can see how you could miss that. My cat acts fickle, probably because my issues cause me to be less consistent with how I interact with him, but I love cuddling him in bed, playing string with him, picking grass outside to feed him or getting him a cardboard box and coaxing him in it, he loves those.

Yeah, I know it’s logical and even healthy to take breaks, I suppose I can get pretty severe abandonment anxiety, because of how my childhood went, and it’s the reason for some of my most regretful, codependent behavior, both towards people and pets, I try to keep it under control, and I normally do, but sometimes under high stress, or over investment in relationships, it’s become an issue, it’s why I try to be aware of my level of detachment.

Yeah beware of neighbors, especially overly friendly ones who don’t take no for an answer. Such a Mom, finding friends with kids, to get other kids for your kids to play with, I suppose, those are the people you can relate to about it best. Glad your kids are well behaved, wait until they’re teens, right? I was a terrible teen myself, but maybe you’ll manage it better than our parents did so it’ll be better. What all are you dealing with that feels hard, just not used to your husband being gone?

Oh, at one point she was a love interest, but I decided against it, since she was too crazy, so I pulled back, and tried to remain friends. She’d just bombard me a lot and use my pet anxieties to hurt me. I was friendly with her son at one point. She used him and the her pets to control me. And her grandaughter too. She’d put animals and grandchildren at risk, or use them to pander, punish, etc. Other than the dehumanizing bombarding, using kids and cats to hurt me, breaks my heart, since I am partial to both. More recently she got the mechanic in the back alley to threaten to kick my butt twice. Had to talk to him calm, and tell him my issue is with her not him, to smooth it over.

I screamed into a pillow today, loud, super cathartic, along with pacing around my Dad, and cussing, . Felt pretty good.

Take care Riv3rw0lf, hope to hear from you soon.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Hey Narcs,

Wow, she sounds fun to be around. Getting someone to threaten you, too? Seriously, it's horrible. I honestly can't even imagine how I could use my children and pets to hurt someone else... Like, literally, how does one come up with ideas to put vulnerables, precious beings in danger just to provoke reactions?


Although if I am honest with myself, my mother did plenty of that with us to hurt our father, she would "forget us" at school, change our school altogether to take us away... He was seeing a psychologist at the time and she told him to not react, that it would pass, that we'd be ok, she would never go as far as to actually hurt her own children, right?.. And enter the boyfriends and physical abuse. And dad would not allow me to talk about what was happening at our mother's house. I'm still convinced she did those things hoping it would get to him somehow, he would have to do something. He didn't tolerate the school changes, but he kept a hard boundary about communicating what was going on at mom. Many time I heard : "I don't want to hear about it Riverwolf, what goes on at your mother's house stay at your mother's house, here is here". Not quite sure the psychologist did us a solid on this one.

Anyway ! Sounds like you take really good care of your pets, they are living the life. That's great. Animals are easier to connect with. They are safe, we know what to expect.

I'm honestly not all that well today. I am managing the house and children, and I have my own business too. It's just a lot. Usually my H gives me time for me on weekends to train and do my yoga. Also every night, he cleans the kitchen, and he gives me a hour for yoga to center and relax myself. So I basically lost all my "me time". I try to still do it when they are in bed, but I've been crazy tired this week.

H is also my emotional rock... I am very calm and I tend to keep everything in, so when I burst... Well... I hate feeling like I am like my mother... Usually, when I am on the verge of bursting, H takes the load away, and he gives me space. He sees me going and will usually call me out. We basically both protect our children from one another. I do the same with him when he starts getting angry. I send him away to calm down... So our children know what we have limits, but they usually don't get the load of it.

I mean... Having children is crazy hard. It's amazing, but  I never had a good role model. I've been in therapy, it triggers a lot of things, but the psychologist I found was useless... He even forgot my name, after I had been with him for 6 months, and mixed my appointment time with someone else, so he sent me away. And when I called him out on it, because he was blaming me for showing up at the wrong time (showed him his email) he started playing victim... So, I quit therapy. I've been managing myself, I'm generally doing ok.

With H gone though... Well I had a moment yesterday, and H wasn't there to protect my children from me. I am not proud of me, at all. It was hell. My 4 years old ended up crying, saying she was bad and everything was always her fault, and it took this to snap out of it. I saw the damages and I hated myself. I had acted exactly like my BPD mother. Hated, hated myself at that moment. I said I was sorry, hugged her, didn't know how to repair. My daughter tried twice to get me to calm down by giving me stickers and I'd throw them in the garbage. I was completely out of myself. Not such a great mom...  And what led to it is just regular life.

She didn't want to come home because she had fun at her friend's house, but it was always 6pm, and diner wasn't cook. H isn't there to help me, and my son is only 2 so I can't just leave him with his big sister somewhere. I felt stuck and the neighbor has a four-wheeler for children, so they were in awe of it, refusing to come home. I asked nicely many times, and my daughter, in her anger, ended up hitting me. That was it. Raised my voice, DS started to have a melt down. They were both hungry and tired. I knew all that rationally. He cried all the way home while I had to carry him, he was debating, it's hard to carry a child who is having a tantrum. Other neighbors were looking at us, DD kept repeating I was a bad mother. And I just snapped.

I dumped all my adult emotions on my four years old... I never do that. I can usually escape before this happen. I tell her I need to calm down and will get back to her when I am calm. Last night I didn't. And I cried for two hours after that, and I am still crying this morning. And it's only just the beginning, so I have to find a way to make this work without hurting my children, this can never happen again. And of course, H is unreachable. They aren't allowed to have their cellphone, so I've been able to talk to him like.. a total of 30 minutes all week.

In the end when I put my daughter to bed, I gave her her kiss good night, and she stroke my hair and she said : "you know mommy, it was just an accident, we both hurt one another, but we still love each other, it's ok, we will do better next time." I know I told her those kind of things before...and I thought What four year old has the maturity to say that to her crying mother... I don't even know if that's good or bad anymore. I hate that she even had to do that. A four year old should never have to carry a parent. I lost my footing. Completely.

So... It's a mix of many things that make all this very hard. Being tired and sick doesn't help. And children, well... They are wonders to be around, but when your own mother traumatized you, it can be very triggering at time.

Anyway, I'm sorry. I guess this needed to come out somehow. I am in an emotional dump, but I can't do self-care, because well... I have too many things to do to keep the house running, and the children fed. I guess writing here was my self-care today.

I will be ok though, I always land on my feet somehow. And I will find my balance... Just a bit of trial and errors needed.

Hey..thanks Narcs. I actually really appreciate our real talks here...

[NarcsEverywhere]

I mean, I’m sorry you’re having such a rough time. I know kids are a ton of work, it’s one of the reasons why I don’t want any despite loving them. What business do you run? Crying for 2 hours, and having a tantrum on your kid, sounds like you’re just taking on too much. You need to be easier on yourself, you’re trying too hard to be everything, have mercy on yourself. I do the same. It’s why my self care routine in the morning (wake up at 3am) is prioritized even over more sleep, because that time to myself is essential, I can always nap later. My suggestion is to journal at the end of each day to vent out the frustrations of each day, or get that counselor, because without your hubby, you seem to not be coping well. I got manipulated and abandoned by my last counselor, while in crisis, and gotten screwed by them many times, but it’s still worth a shot, as some are good, worth shopping for. I also suggest you find time for the yoga, because I bet your life will fall more into place, if you find the time for that, there’s gotta be a way to fit that in. Let your child be sweet to you, you deserve the slack, how about teaching her about mercy?  I think you’re too scared of yourself, again, I do the same, I catastrophize having a bad moment, and treat myself like it’s pathological. You’re human, not your mom.

And by the way, children and cats aren’t completely innocent, they cause a lot of trouble sometimes, haha, doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to be cared for and protected. I do feel like they’re precious, but I guess my point is your kids sound like a handful and that’s not your fault always, kids can be mean as hell. I was when I was a kid sometimes… if you heard my stories.

Yes I am being a bit bossy here, but you can’t keep doing this to yourself. Hope you feel better.

[Riv3rW0lf]

The wait line is a minimum of 6 months to a year for a therapist here, I live in a very small town.

But know what? I installed the water table outside this morning and fitted in a 20minutes HIIT advanced workout, and I already feel much better.

As for the yoga, yes, I will fit it in when they are in bed, but I have been sick this week and my body needed the rest, have been going to bed at 8pm every nights. Yoga is not much fun without a functional breathing practice.

It will be a tough ride, but yeah I hear you. I do try to be everything, and I am very hard on myself, it's true. I guess... I've been this way so much I don't even see it anymore. And I'm actually much better than before. I used to be much more intense than this. Being a single mother is crazy, . Really crazy. Even if I wanted to fit in more me time, with 2 years old, it almost impossible.

Also my business is engineering. I've gotten used to the workload now. But again, being a single mom is something else.

And I do try to nap with my son when I can, but DD doesn't want to sleep anymore, so... Again, my schedule is fitted around their needs, they have to come first.

But yes, they can be crazy mean ! It's hard to deal with all this..they need to learn they can hurt people too, but you also don't want to shame or guiltrip them either, I mean... It's a tough balance I try to just be honest about it all, but without the emotional load and dumping and extra shaming my mother would do. But sometimes, it's just too much I guess.

I will balance myself out, don't worry. Just needed to vent.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Let your child be sweet to you, you deserve the slack, how about teaching her about mercy?  I think you’re too scared of yourself, again, I do the same, I catastrophize having a bad moment, and treat myself like it’s pathological. You’re human, not your mom.

This really hit home. Thank you deeply for this, I needed to read this.

[NarcsEverywhere]

Funny thing, I forgot about you being sick when I responded, and ended up catastrophizing that, and completely ignoring the fact that I told you to not be hard on yourself and to take care of yourself, and show yourself mercy. And I felt like such a douche. It's funny how we can pull out the one mistake and ignore all the good we do. I'm glad some of my words helped! Is it safe to do HIIT when sick? Yeah, I tend to push myself when sick or shutdown, it's hard to know how to pace myself when sick to deal with things and my illness, and not hurt myself, or not coddle myself too much. Yeah, I can see how breathing can be hard when sick, what type of illness do you have? I really think any sort of self care is important, even if it's not the normal self care type of thing, whatever it is, as long as it works for you, that's all that matters. But I totally get why it's hard to find the time for yourself, when you have a 2 year old, Motherhood sounds insanely hard. I'm grateful I'll never have to go through it, ha, all that pregnancy and birthing alone is enough to make my head spin. Do you work from home? Anyways, back to my routine. Terrible at taking my own advice, but nice talking to you! I'll catch up with you later, when I'm more grounded in my daily life.

[NarcsEverywhere]

Hey Riv3rW0lf,

Hope your day goes better than the last. I don't have a lot to give today, and have stuff I need to take care of, so I am going to go ahead and check out for the rest of the day, will most likely get back to you tomorrow. Yeah, my neighbor is pretty crazy, I'm glad I gave her a book on healing after loss, because her father died, and then told her we need to get along, and we seem to be keeping the peace. I ended up letting her boyfriend park his car in front of my fence, to help keep the peace, so that I could pet her cat, who I love. Sometimes I hate doing the big thing, since he parks his big jeep there, and it feels like I am being dominated, but I just laugh at myself, and the possibility that it is some power thing for both of them, whatever, as long as I can have more sanity, I can live with it.

I didn't mind you venting to me today, and I am very glad I helped you, I think I could occasionally support you like that, but on a consistent basis, can't really right now. I actually need to vent myself more to people, and hope that I can occasionally vent to you like that, on my hardest days, and you could just not respond until you have the bandwidth. I'm glad you've been letting me vent a little and I think we can both do that a bit, and keep things more moderate most of the time. No big deal about having a hard day! Just trying to make my capabilities and hopes clear. A lot of people think men don't need to vent, that we are somehow just stronger on that front, but I think we need it too, we just hardly ever get it. It's a mixed bag, as women probably get used to depending on it more, and men have it neglected more, so it's a messy situation.

I'd like to discuss some of the other stuff in the posts, but I think since you've been having a hard time and I kind of have stuff I need to focus on and have my difficulties too, I'll wait until you're ready.

Hope you're doing a lot better.

PS: Also, helping you, reminded me to have mercy on myself today, so it helped me too on that front too.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Hey Narcs, sorry my venting this morning kinda put you off a bit. I honestly wasn't planing on writing to you specifically about it, and pondered writing a whole post about it yesterday evening but ended up going to bed...

When I started answering you this morning, it all came out, and I figured I'd let it come out there, since it just needed out. While I was writing "to you", I was more writing "to me", as well. And especially, "to here"...You see, I am well aware this is a support group and a public thread too. and everyone here reads everything or almost... And I am thankful, because someone else picked up on it, opened a new thread, and found words I needed to hear...

Because indeed, I am well aware too that you are not a mother with a BPD mother, and it might be a bit hard to grasp what I am talking about, albeit you gave it a good try. Thank you for that. And so I am sorry if this made you feel powerless or like I was solely looking to get support from you specifically. I truly wasn't. I just needed to get it out. This had been weighing on me for a long time, and it's like the culmination point. Where I am finally ready to admit just how terrorized I am that my daughter might end up like my mother. It is what it is. It isn't about her. It is all about my very own fear. That maybe other mothers that have BPD mothers will understand. A fear I have to understand and take out of me so that I don't end up hurting the little girl and future woman I cherish the most on this whole planet. 

Again, I don't mind you venting. This is a support group and I do provide support, but sometimes, I am indeed in need as well.  

It was just a cold, but with the stress I guess I got hit a bit more than usual, and ended up with a bad cough and a blocked nose. A HIIT might extend it a few more days, but then the extra oxygen seems to also help at times. We will see. It did energize me, so it was good in the end.

[NarcsEverywhere]

Well, it was my choice to respond, and I got caught up into talking to you there, so it feels private even though it’s not. It’s not a worry, I’ve just dealt with a lot of  people who have bombarded me a lot and been one sided, from my Dad to exBPDgf, to the neighbor, so it’s a sensitivity of mine. But technically I’ve been impressed by the effort you put into my situation, so don’t sweat it. And I totally see that your anxiety is about that, and I can’t specifically relate like others in your more specific situation can.

Take your support, don’t really expect anything today, worked through a lot of anger and feel better and gonna wind down for the day. I did see that someone picked up on it, hope that helps. Good luck.

Edit: Yeah sorry if me bossing you around/missing that you’re sick maybe detoured you and encouraged you to do HIIT when you’re sick. I thought take care of yourself and don’t be hard on yourself are pretty low risk things to get bossy about. I am even a hard ass with myself about those two. P

[Riv3rW0lf]

Morning Narcs,

I wanted to take a couple minutes to answer you because I kinda feel you anxious here.

So first of all : it did feel more personal, and so this one is completely on me, I should have opened another thread instead of venting on this specific one. It kinda disrupted the discussion and it was a completely different subject.

Second : don't you worry, you don't have this kind of power  many people might have made you believed you did, but you don't. I did this HIIT because I wanted to, and I had already set my mind on this well before I had read your post. I've been training for 10 years now. I wouldn't recommend a newby to do a HIIT advanced workout when they are still "sick", but this is routine training for me, and often a breeze to get through. I am not sicker today, I can read my body quite well. I had taken two days off and I knew my body was ok to take it, and I'm well. Actually going for a run after this answer.

A lot of people will make mistake and blame people around that wanted to help, they will blame their advice, but I am not one of those people. I can take care of myself, and my decisions are mine and mine alone.

I mostly write here when I am in need of validation, ressources or compassion. Anything that doesn't meet that, I discard. Most people are well intentioned when they remind someone to do self care, and I accept that as is, but I focus on what I need in the answers I am provided with. For me : intentions are much more important than words.

It comes down to what I told you a few posts ago : it's a matter of perspective.

So don't worry about me, I am doing ok, I can take care of myself, I am a big girl

Enjoy your day, I hope you don't get another power ego trip to deal with from your neighbor. And indeed... It is just a jeep. But people are weird this way that they can use such subtile things to get in our head, then it's hard to tell if they wanted to, or if we overanalyze everything. I prefer the latter because at least, I have power over that. I see you do the same thing, so good for you : really it's just a jeep, shouldn't keep you from enjoying your day.

Take care today, talk to you soon

[NarcsEverywhere]

Hey Riv3rw0lf,

Well I am glad it worked out for you, I know being lazy when sick can cause the breath to get heavy, which feels terrible, so it makes sense to get some exercise to fight that a bit.

Yeah, I suppose my abandonment anxieties kick up a bit with this, since I’ve been isolated, and have enjoyed talking to you a lot, I know I should socialize with others more, to keep perspective, but I have limited bandwidth lately, so just gonna try to detach when I get like that and focus on self care. Because I don’t want to sabotage this by being too needy or having an overly fixing attitude.

Enjoy your run, I calmly asked the neighbor lady to have her bf move his car since it was garbage day, and thanked her boyfriend for fixing our fence, so we seem on good terms for now.

Been making progress on journaling finally, so that’s great, having a very methodical strategy about working through trauma seems to make it more manageable.

Hope you have a good day, probably gonna nap soon, got 3 hours of sleep.

[livednlearned]

Lots of people tell me to meditate, or be mindful more, or pile on loving kindness meditations and such, and it never works for me

This makes me think of Bessel van der Kolk's book where he recommends yoga as an evidence-based way to manage trauma. Maybe meditation is too much head time.  

I had such an engulfing family in some ways and suspect it has influenced how I feel about group think. I've taken meditation classes and gone to a handful of retreats and I'm just not a happy joiner. I don't mind being in the mix but I'm sensitive to control of any kind, even if it's to do something in "pure" way.

A while ago I decided to look into transcendental meditation and got a bit spooked by what felt like a sales pitch and then an intake form asking what drugs had I taken and what psychiatric issues did I have. No thanks!

But that led me to look up what set TM aside from other kinds of meditation and I learned that a lot of meditation practices lean toward controlling your thoughts. TM is more about recognizing them, and letting them do what they do. That might seem like a small distinction but for someone who was raised in a controlling, abusive environment, especially from a sibling who was hyper focused on my facial expressions and inner thoughts, it made a lot of difference.

Since TM is too nosy for me I tried 1GiantMind (an app) and it was probably the best mindfulness experience I've had (versus mindfulness-based stress reduction and some kind of hard-core meditation decades ago that was too rigid). 1GiantMind is based on the same mindfulness principles as TM but it's just ... an app. They try to get people to become teachers but that's just a swipe on the app to get rid of it and then boom you're saying the mantra in your head and letting your mind scurry around and whatnot.

I also think spiritual communities can be problematic. They have been for me, including an older dude trying to all but groom me when I was in my late teens. The book In Sheep's Clothing (about covert aggression) talks about the high rate of covert aggression in spiritual communities and that has certainly been true for me, although maybe it's no higher than other groups but stands out more given the context.

[zachira]

I could not be present, practice any kind of mindfulness including yoga and meditation, until I did EMDR therapy which was extremely challenging and uncomforable AND it worked. I was left in the crib all day as a baby and my mother had no capacity to make eye contact or any kind of emotional contact with her children. From my experiences, the ability to heal comes from the ability to be present. I believe EMDR was so painful and destabilizing to do in the beginning because I had never known what being present was, and was hit with the cumulation of a life time of ignored discomfort and pain.

[NarcsEverywhere]

Hey both of you, livenlearned and zachira I've tried EMDR from home and TM before, didn't help a ton, but stretching and breathing might help, dunno about full blown yoga, but the stretching has helped in the past, so thanks for the reminder of that. I have the weirdest issue lately where I am so much in my head, or so much in trauma, that I lose body tracking and feel disassociated from it when busy, until I come down, normally late in the evening I can get more into my body. I need to do it more. It's so odd, having this weird desynch between body and my perceptions/mind/actions sometimes. Sometimes I feel like I am floating around or something. It kinda blows, but I used to be really body aware and might be able to fix that more. Any tips on that would be appreciated.

[zachira]

EMDR needs to be done with a qualified therapist in person.