Should I chase my pwBPD ex gf? She broke up but also wants to give me a gift

[senttothemoon]

Hi everyone,
I'm 28yo and my ex gf is 33yo. A relationship lasted only almost 1 month but it has been so intense that it felt like it was 1 year long. She told me about her BPD during our first date, she self-diagnosed it and a psychiatrist she knew has confirmed her illness in a non-official way. For this reason I didn't take it seriously, because, among other stuff she told me, I had the impression she was only trying to scare me about a lot of things I could've used to discard her.

I've accepted every single thing of her without any problem and we have been very lovely, affectionate and cute for the first 2 weeks. She really sent me high to the moon, praising and complimenting everything of my person, telling me I'm perfect for her and showing even some signs of being stalker/obsessed with me.
For some reason I was not scared at all, but fascinated and flattered, probably I'm a codependent because my previous relationship was a 1-year toxic disaster with an undiagnosed NPD girl (also in this case, I've noticed very similar patterns: both were way older than me, both had fear of abandonment, both felt unsafe sitting in a table seat without seeing the building entrance, the love-bombing/devaluation/discard phases etc).

During the 3rd week I had to go a few days to another city for work and that's when we started to have the first fights: first about a guy trying to hit on her (I was worried about her safety but she felt "controlled/entrapped/not independent"), then about a girl texting me (my bad, I should've not talked about it to her, I didn't expect it would have been catastrophic), she started to be extremely jealous wasn't believing I'm not interested to this girl while I just wanted to laugh about it. Then about text tone incomprehensions, then about she thinking "I'm not enough for you", then about her feeling abandoned and forgotten by me during work-meeting when I couldn't reply to her in a timely manner. It was a mess but I really fought for her and reassured her EVERY SINGLE TIME that everything was good between us and that I was deeply committed to making it work between us. I have been the most lovely I've ever been in any other relationship.

During the 4th week she started an extreme 2-week long diet (it doesn't make any sense, I know, I've tried to explain her but with no positive outcome) and everything started to go downhill. It's something she does every year because of her body dysmorphia gets uncontrollable before summer. Her self-awareness really made me believe things could've worked between us...

So, we were planning our 4th date and also our first time sex together (it was a middle-distance relationship), but she started to feel depressed because the diet wasn't giving instantaneous results and started to say that we couldn't do much during the date. We had a huge fight about it because she promised me to do intimate stuff together and then, because of the depleted status she self-inflicted herself, it was not possible anymore. I've made her feel guilty and that was entirely my fault for behaving like a terrible boyfriend, I know and I feel guilty myself for it. This was the first time she said "Ok we need to break up, we are not compatible and you are making me feel like pure sh*t". I gave her a few hours to cool down and then we made things good again with a phone call.

Everything was fine again for a while. I've planned a cute movie date and she suggested there could've been a chance we could have sex because her libido raises up when we are in good terms. The problem is that... Well, we've tried to have sex but we had "timing" issues. She wanted to hurry, while I wasn't ready because I need foreplay, so to speak. She hates foreplay, lost patience and we stopped. She said it was fine and we would've tried again, she was still sweet and passionate with me in the heat of the moment but later the same night, when I was back at my house, she started to act completely cold in chat.

I didn't take it personal and I tried to show her a lot of love as usual but she stopped reciprocating any sweet thing I was saying, switching topic to her weight/diet. Once I've told her "Honey, when you use terms like that I feel a bit hurt, can you please not do it again? Anyway I'm here if you want to talk about what's happening", I've tried to be non-conflictual but she stormed telling I always misunderstand her tone, then the silent treatment for some hours.
I was starting to not recognize her anymore and getting anxious things were ready to end and that's what happened after a few days: I've told her we needed to discuss about sex timings but she refused any confrontation, telling me humiliating things. I've highlighted her I was feeling humiliated, she again denied it defending herself with "No, I was just giving you informations, and please don't use that word again. And also, this means you don't really like me". But after a while, again, more seriously: "We are not compatible, let's stop it. There is no way this will work however hard we try". There was no whatsoever way she would've helped me fixing things, she was building a wall in front of my face.
Every single word of mine just met pure rage, unreasonability, non-cooperative and hostile behaviour.
I've proposed her to stop talking for a few days instead of breaking up and she agreed. But then went in the "fear of abandonment mode" and started to call me and texting me it makes no sense to stay silent for days, that she saw me 50/50 both good and bad at the same time (that's weird for a BPD) and didn't know if she really wanted to break up. She told me was sorry and we made peace, but I didn't text her the day after because we agreed so.

When I've tried to contact her again, she was super-angry and verbally violent with me because she waited for a text by me. Then she tells me I annoy her whatever I do and that there are other people understanding her, but I couldn't. She went for the conclusion it's better to stay friends because she felt too guilty with her mistreatments towards me and was sorry to cause me to feel hurt every time, and that we were becoming too toxic, so it was better to end it. (I'm suspecting there is another guy in the picture, or maybe she just feel no more sexual attraction for me after the episode...).
So walking in eggshells was not more an option, I've been bold telling her the BPD/depression/ED symptomps are too strong and she really needs to get in therapy and fix her issues, and that my self-esteem was dropping down because of what's happening. That I care about her and I really want to fight for the relationship, but I need her will to fight for it too.
I've rejected her friendship and she insisted, also revealing she is preparing a gift for me (I couldn't believe it, why?) and to go visit her some time to get it. We didn't really have a final closure, I've just replied I'm going to disappear because I want a relationship, not a friendship, so it's better I go.

4 days have passed but she has not contacted me anymore, she just watches my instagram stories despite me ignoring hers. I don't know if I acted in a good way, I really want her back, but I fear that it would not last anyway. How can I make this work? She would like to get to therapy but she can't because of money issues. Is it possible to make a self-aware high-functioning BPD person feel loved unconditionally as they want, without treatments?

Please give me advices, and most of all, what the hell means a post-breakup gift?

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[UnbalancedForce]

One month in and these issues during the honeymoon phase not a great sign unfortunately. I know in the beginning you said you didn't take it seriously...In my experience I have found that people tell you exactly what they are in the beginning. It might not even be her BPD traits it could just be a compatibility issue this early in the relationship. I also have co-dependent issues and that is a main reason why I have been involved with and attract Cluster B's. I think you are not scared because of the trauma we have suffered in our lives and past relationships at least that is the case in most of these situations. I actually get addicted to the high of the love-bombing phase. I am also a people pleaser. Through therapy and tons of research you can not make someone go to therapy. They have to want it for themselves and especially someone with BPD traits. I know she says she doesn't have the money but there are always excuses! I found I felt I could "fix" them. That is one of the hardest things I had to realize. I used to make mine feel guilty too. This was my unmanaged baggage that I had to solve within myself. This is in their subconscious and comes from a lifetime of severe trauma. The bouncing back and forth "50/50" on the pendulum is actually quite common of "love-hate" relationships. If you really are wanting to make this work you have to learn how "her" mind works and not make her conform to yours. BPD means disordered. They don't think like you do. It is also takes a very strong mind to handle these relationships. I don't know how long since your last "toxic-disaster", but I would make sure you are 100% recovered from that before giving this another go. These relationships have extreme highs and extreme lows, not really too much grey area. I would really take the time to research all the information on this site on how to really make it work. Even then it's a rollercoaster. I can confidently say without therapy its pretty slim. A technique I used was "Hey I started therapy and it is great! Do you notice any changes in me? Would you maybe want to come with me to couples therapy? Something along those lines, work as a team not an ultimatum to win your affection. It does sound like she has a super sweet side and truly cares about you. Maybe slow down a bit and really get to know each other? I know you said you don't want to be friends but in this case getting to know each other and not rushing sexual relations that aren't coming natural and really learning what you guys want/need. You can not make make them feel loved unconditionally. That is the point of this disorder. One day they like the "thing" one day they don't. Its up to you to have consistent boundaries, keep you self-esteem high by balancing other areas of you life(because this relationship will not consistently give you that), and keep on learning about the disorder. You need to walk the line between her fear of abandonment and her fear of engulfment and evolve together managing both of your triggers. As for the gift...It's doing its purpose. It is making you want to go back to her. It is the push/pull and intermittent reinforcement. Again this is just my advice! Only you know your partner this is just my experience and my knowledge maybe someone else will give some input! I hope I didn't sound too harsh but this relationship will not be easy but it is possible. It just takes 100% cooperation on both sides which you seem to already know. Good luck my friend.

[senttothemoon]

One month in and these issues during the honeymoon phase not a great sign unfortunately. I know in the beginning you said you didn't take it seriously...In my experience I have found that people tell you exactly what they are in the beginning. It might not even be her BPD traits it could just be a compatibility issue this early in the relationship. I also have co-dependent issues and that is a main reason why I have been involved with and attract Cluster B's. I think you are not scared because of the trauma we have suffered in our lives and past relationships at least that is the case in most of these situations. I actually get addicted to the high of the love-bombing phase. I am also a people pleaser. Through therapy and tons of research you can not make someone go to therapy. They have to want it for themselves and especially someone with BPD traits. I know she says she doesn't have the money but there are always excuses! I found I felt I could "fix" them. That is one of the hardest things I had to realize. I used to make mine feel guilty too. This was my unmanaged baggage that I had to solve within myself. This is in their subconscious and comes from a lifetime of severe trauma. The bouncing back and forth "50/50" on the pendulum is actually quite common of "love-hate" relationships. If you really are wanting to make this work you have to learn how "her" mind works and not make her conform to yours. BPD means disordered. They don't think like you do. It is also takes a very strong mind to handle these relationships. I don't know how long since your last "toxic-disaster", but I would make sure you are 100% recovered from that before giving this another go. These relationships have extreme highs and extreme lows, not really too much grey area. I would really take the time to research all the information on this site on how to really make it work. Even then it's a rollercoaster. I can confidently say without therapy its pretty slim. A technique I used was "Hey I started therapy and it is great! Do you notice any changes in me? Would you maybe want to come with me to couples therapy? Something along those lines, work as a team not an ultimatum to win your affection. It does sound like she has a super sweet side and truly cares about you. Maybe slow down a bit and really get to know each other? I know you said you don't want to be friends but in this case getting to know each other and not rushing sexual relations that aren't coming natural and really learning what you guys want/need. You can not make make them feel loved unconditionally. That is the point of this disorder. One day they like the "thing" one day they don't. Its up to you to have consistent boundaries, keep you self-esteem high by balancing other areas of you life(because this relationship will not consistently give you that), and keep on learning about the disorder. You need to walk the line between her fear of abandonment and her fear of engulfment and evolve together managing both of your triggers. As for the gift...It's doing its purpose. It is making you want to go back to her. It is the push/pull and intermittent reinforcement. Again this is just my advice! Only you know your partner this is just my experience and my knowledge maybe someone else will give some input! I hope I didn't sound too harsh but this relationship will not be easy but it is possible. It just takes 100% cooperation on both sides which you seem to already know. Good luck my friend.

Thank you for your point of view. I've been in therapy twice in the last years but I'm starting a new session in a few days because I really need to dig up this codependency thing I have towards Cluster B people. I've realized I may have a problem with the same results as an untreated BDP person could have: never having a good relationship ever.
My previous NPD ex-gf was 5 years ago, I took a long time and therapy to trust someone else back. Despite that, I still had to mention what I've experienced many times to the current ex-gf to make sure she would've not done the same (spoiler: she did something similar anyway).

You could be right about the gift. She did the same with her previous hex: a gift while he was "special", then he broke up with her and became a "monster who abandoned a fragile girl", then when she started to see me she asked him the gift back. As a sort of b/w measure, I dunno.

Today she texted me passive-agressively, as I've shown through my socials that my life is going on normally and I'm having fun with friends: she doesn't like it. She is jealous of my female friends and used this as the proof I didn't care about her and leaving me was a good choice. Also she complained about being removed from my friend list in some other apps (yep, I did it because I was hurting and needed a bit of clean up, without burning bridges). I've replied her in the most neutral and non-confrontational way, validating her feelings and saying it was indeed the right thing to break up with someone like me, not engaging any outburst. I think I've managed to defuse her, since she stopped replying.
If only I read about this trick earlier...

But now I'm scared I've indeed jeopardized my chances to get to what I really wanted: get her back, stay together, letting her start therapy and fight like a team towards this illness. But I can't show any love towards her if she is in full devaluation/rage phase with me, I would only allow further abuses as she did in the last days before breaking up.
Also I fear to get back to her and to restart the cycles only to end up to a faster devaluation and a more violent discard (this is what I've read many times on the internet).

I'm instead starting to fear she could spiral in dangerous choices like stalking me or trying to hack my accounts (today I've been suddenly logged out by my Meta accounts twice, I don't want to feel paranoid but it's suspicious. She once told me about an ex that hacked all her accounts, could it be the real story has switched "protagonists"...?). I'm believing we are in a really dark position right now and I can't think about any positive outcome. I'm also feeling extremely guilty in faking I don't care about her, as I know she is suffering but I MUST do it in order to protect myself.

If all the relationship is going to be like this, I can say for sure I'm not ready to fight this alone. 100% cooperation needs her to do her part of the work too, but I don't see it possible in her position.
A part of me is obsessing over her, reading everything existing on the web about BPD and trying to find a solution (because I'm a damned "fixer") and writing here is central of this behaviour.
The other part of me wants to just get rid of her because I can't find any way to recover permanently the situation and I feel helpless.

[UnbalancedForce]

Your a good person mate! The point you have this kind of introspection and empathy you will make an excellent partner. Another thing about the "gift", not really a BPD thing, is proving her loyalty to you. The BPD part of it is you will become that monster eventually and you have to hope the cops aren't called to get it back or sneaks through your windows... My ex said the same thing about their ex's. I thought I could be the white knight! ...nope. I'm a little over 5 months out, quick synopsis, mine showed subtle traits but nothing too out there but we have known each other most of our lives...soft breakup/next day I was the son of Sam. Slow fade over a week to nothing for couple weeks. Then blocked calls, call from local clinic, fake social media accts, kids accounts on social media, etc...I would respond not calling it out with a meme to break the ice or similar then one line of communication was taken away from me like punishment. My problem was I did some reactive/protest behavior I.E.-blocking, showing I was upset. Then the "charming" continued with greater intensity. I learned you have to guide correct behavior and not pay attention to negative. It has been dying out now but still there(glad my mom wouldn't respond to my ex cuz I'm not ready ) Just my two cents since if you think it is coming it is! Mine actually played coy on tech and stuff...little did I know they can write web 3 code blindfolded lmfao so yes its her on your Facebook. That's where the charming gets me. I'm always paranoid. You have not jeopardized your chances sir. Fear of abandonment has not even come close to hitting yet. Same with painted black. This appears to be her somewhat baseline mood right now. You will be the devil incarnate. Great job keeping your boundaries on the call yet still being empathetic to her needs. I would go with your gut. I don't think you have to lie, tell the truth. Just be honest and hold yourself to your boundary as well as her. I know you will make a good decision. Like someone replied on one of my posts..."Determine what may work for you and even if it fails, count it as a lesson learned and keep trying."

[senttothemoon]

Your a good person mate! The point you have this kind of introspection and empathy you will make an excellent partner. Another thing about the "gift", not really a BPD thing, is proving her loyalty to you. The BPD part of it is you will become that monster eventually and you have to hope the cops aren't called to get it back or sneaks through your windows... My ex said the same thing about their ex's. I thought I could be the white knight! ...nope. I'm a little over 5 months out, quick synopsis, mine showed subtle traits but nothing too out there but we have known each other most of our lives...soft breakup/next day I was the son of Sam. Slow fade over a week to nothing for couple weeks. Then blocked calls, call from local clinic, fake social media accts, kids accounts on social media, etc...I would respond not calling it out with a meme to break the ice or similar then one line of communication was taken away from me like punishment. My problem was I did some reactive/protest behavior I.E.-blocking, showing I was upset. Then the "charming" continued with greater intensity. I learned you have to guide correct behavior and not pay attention to negative. It has been dying out now but still there(glad my mom wouldn't respond to my ex cuz I'm not ready ) Just my two cents since if you think it is coming it is! Mine actually played coy on tech and stuff...little did I know they can write web 3 code blindfolded lmfao so yes its her on your Facebook. That's where the charming gets me. I'm always paranoid. You have not jeopardized your chances sir. Fear of abandonment has not even come close to hitting yet. Same with painted black. This appears to be her somewhat baseline mood right now. You will be the devil incarnate. Great job keeping your boundaries on the call yet still being empathetic to her needs. I would go with your gut. I don't think you have to lie, tell the truth. Just be honest and hold yourself to your boundary as well as her. I know you will make a good decision. Like someone replied on one of my posts..."Determine what may work for you and even if it fails, count it as a lesson learned and keep trying."

Sorry to hear what you went through. But why then are you here suggesting me to go forward with her, to don't give up and that there's a chance to fix things? It really seems like nobody has a lasting experience with a BPD partner...

[UnbalancedForce]

I understand your feeling hopeless. I hope I wasn't pushing you either way because that is a decision you have to make. I am just giving you advice from my experience and from what I have learned. I get what you are saying but can't you say that about "normal" relationships. I mean depending on which data you look at 80-90% don't last 5 yrs. Does that mean we give up trying to find love? No, we work and try to learn from the relationships we have to get us ready to find a good match. At the top of this board is success stories...Have you read through them? I have talked with people who are married and happy. They say it ain't easy but they are very fulfilled.
There is also a rule of this board FYI...
"If you are in toxic gridlock with your partner... . meaning that you have given up trying to work with your partner and/or find it pointless please post on the Conflicted of Just tolerating It board."
Ultimately it is a tough choice but either way is going to be a lot of pain my friend. You will never experience the intense heartbreak of these relationships if you are together or you separate. It touches a part of your heart and soul you didn't know existed both positively and negatively. I would really soul search and decide what it is YOU want. I think whichever choice you make will be perfect in the end. Just make sure you do it for yourself and not for her. We are all dealing with this and there will be a board for you either way. Cheers

[senttothemoon]

I understand your feeling hopeless. I hope I wasn't pushing you either way because that is a decision you have to make. I am just giving you advice from my experience and from what I have learned. I get what you are saying but can't you say that about "normal" relationships. I mean depending on which data you look at 80-90% don't last 5 yrs. Does that mean we give up trying to find love? No, we work and try to learn from the relationships we have to get us ready to find a good match. At the top of this board is success stories...Have you read through them? I have talked with people who are married and happy. They say it ain't easy but they are very fulfilled.
There is also a rule of this board FYI...
"If you are in toxic gridlock with your partner... . meaning that you have given up trying to work with your partner and/or find it pointless please post on the Conflicted of Just tolerating It board."
Ultimately it is a tough choice but either way is going to be a lot of pain my friend. You will never experience the intense heartbreak of these relationships if you are together or you separate. It touches a part of your heart and soul you didn't know existed both positively and negatively. I would really soul search and decide what it is YOU want. I think whichever choice you make will be perfect in the end. Just make sure you do it for yourself and not for her. We are all dealing with this and there will be a board for you either way. Cheers

I didn't give up. Today I've talked with my therapist and I've received more or less the same reply you gave me: the choice is mine. She is not a person to "run from" but indeed it's not a walk in the park to deal with her and I must understand what I need to take from this relationship.

I've decided to call her, she replied but was distracted and cold. She told me it wasn't a good time to talk but in 2 minutes the issue was gone and was available. I told her I miss her and I would like to get things working back again, that I know we are both complicated but there's a possibility.
She tried to make me feel guilty: "I've wanted it too as I reached out to you the other day, I've lowered my pride for you, and you just told me it was better I left you. I was disappointed. You are egoist because when I wanted you back you didn't and now you call me telling me you want me back but... well, now I'm the one who doesn't want it. After your reply I'm moving on"
I told her it's not like that, I didn't perceive she wanted to restart and that I was simply hurt and needed time for myself, and also that it was a self-sabotaging attempt by me, but that.. in real I thought and dreamt about her every day. The truth is that I really want her back and being a support from each other.
There were a lot of silence times in this call. She began being sarcastic.

After a while she got fed up and told "Ok support yourself then, all this talk talk talk talk every time... I'm tired, bye" and closed the call.

I dunno what to do :/ I'm trying my best but seems like fighting an impossible videogame boss

[kells76]

Hey senttothemoon, thanks for the update. Glad to hear you have a therapist to lean on right now.

Reading through your transcript of the call, this part stood out to me:

I've decided to call her, she replied but was distracted and cold. She told me it wasn't a good time to talk but in 2 minutes the issue was gone and was available. I told her I miss her and I would like to get things working back again, that I know we are both complicated but there's a possibility.
She tried to make me feel guilty: "I've wanted it too as I reached out to you the other day, I've lowered my pride for you, and you just told me it was better I left you. I was disappointed. You are egoist because when I wanted you back you didn't and now you call me telling me you want me back but... well, now I'm the one who doesn't want it. After your reply I'm moving on"
I told her it's not like that, I didn't perceive she wanted to restart and that I was simply hurt and needed time for myself, and also that it was a self-sabotaging attempt by me, but that.. in real I thought and dreamt about her every day. The truth is that I really want her back and being a support from each other.
There were a lot of silence times in this call. She began being sarcastic.

After a while she got fed up and told "Ok support yourself then, all this talk talk talk talk every time... I'm tired, bye" and closed the call.

Anyone in your shoes would want to do the same thing -- "set the record straight". It's excruciating to hear someone misrepresent your own inner feelings and motivations.

A really difficult part of interacting with pwBPD is that "typical" conversation moves like explaining more, that with a "normal" person could decrease the intensity, tend to throw gas on the fire with a pwBPD.

That's because JADE-ing (Justifying, Arguing, Defending, and Explaining ourselves) can come across to a pwBPD as not only invalidating their experiences, but invalidating them personally. And that's whether we mean to invalidate or not -- their sensitivity to invalidation is kind of baked in to the BPD experience.

Have you had a chance to check out our workshop on Don't "JADE" (justify, argue, defend, explain) yet? Really good stuff there. Learning to avoid JADEing isn't necessarily intuitive, and when dealing with the pwBPD in my life (my H's kids' mom), it took me more on the scale of years vs days or months to figure out that defending my choices was always a losing move with her. Of course, the first few years I didn't know about this group, so you have an advantage.

Let us know what you think about the JADE article -- I bet that moving forward, you will be able to incorporate some of those skills into conversations, and have a pretty different experience.

[senttothemoon]

Hey senttothemoon, thanks for the update. Glad to hear you have a therapist to lean on right now.

Reading through your transcript of the call, this part stood out to me:

Anyone in your shoes would want to do the same thing -- "set the record straight". It's excruciating to hear someone misrepresent your own inner feelings and motivations.

A really difficult part of interacting with pwBPD is that "typical" conversation moves like explaining more, that with a "normal" person could decrease the intensity, tend to throw gas on the fire with a pwBPD.

That's because JADE-ing (Justifying, Arguing, Defending, and Explaining ourselves) can come across to a pwBPD as not only invalidating their experiences, but invalidating them personally. And that's whether we mean to invalidate or not -- their sensitivity to invalidation is kind of baked in to the BPD experience.

Have you had a chance to check out our workshop on Don't "JADE" (justify, argue, defend, explain) yet? Really good stuff there. Learning to avoid JADEing isn't necessarily intuitive, and when dealing with the pwBPD in my life (my H's kids' mom), it took me more on the scale of years vs days or months to figure out that defending my choices was always a losing move with her. Of course, the first few years I didn't know about this group, so you have an advantage.

Let us know what you think about the JADE article -- I bet that moving forward, you will be able to incorporate some of those skills into conversations, and have a pretty different experience.

Hi kells76, you are right and I've recognized I was JADEing as soon as I said her that sentence but it was the most natural thing I had to say. I took 2 seconds to elaborate something else but couldnt think of any alternative so I just justified myself.
The problem is that learning how to avoid BPD bursts require taking my time before replying and this works only via text. In a realtime situation I don't know how to react. This has lead to all the silences I've mentioned earlier but was really awkward and not my usual way of communicating.

Trying to: not beg, not JADE, not trigger them, not accusing them, not talking confrontationally, not to be too lovely etc is really hard.

Now I'm going not to contact her again but I wish there was something proactive to make the situation lighter at least

[senttothemoon]

Up...
Any suggestion? Should I keep no contact?

[UnbalancedForce]

Any updates? Curious how you are doing...

[senttothemoon]

Any updates? Curious how you are doing...

Never heard from her anymore. I've blocked her from every social and chat. After a few days I felt guilty and unblocked her, but I don't feel any urge to be in contact with her. I let her go, my feelings went away.
Sometimes I think it would've been better to stay friends, but it seems like I'm the one who finally "splitted black" on her. I would not trust her anymore.

I'm pretty much sure she is seeing someone else, but I didn't seek any proof of it, I don't want to know anything about her current life.

I'm done.

I've contacted the admins twice asking to delete this thread and my account, but no one replied.