Do pwBPDs ever show remorse?

[WhoaBaby]

My marriage with my BPDw is better after 2 1/2 loong years of couples therapy, personal therapy (each of us), DBT group class and constant medication retooling. She is now relatively stable, with  no splitting in past few months.
My issue: I have my own anxiety disorder, and I have huge fear that it could all unravel at any moment. I doubt that her BPD will ever truly be "gone" and she is just in remission, like a recovering alcoholic who could go back to the bottle any day.
Any suggestions for how to be at peace with this?
Lastly, in all 30 months of "recovery", she has never once expressed remorse to me, as in "I'm sorry I put you through all this honey." It shows to me that even without outburst behavior she is still very self-centered. Is that typical? Do I just have to accept that?

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[thankful person]

My dbpdw has rarely ever apologised for anything in the 9 years we’ve been together. The closest she ever got was, “I took it out on you, and I shouldn’t have…” She only said this once whereas for a long time she could have legitimately said this every day.

Have you heard of conventional bpd/unconventional bpd? They are like different breeds. I joined some groups on Quora where they are all the conventional type. Very self-aware, identify themselves as pwbpd’s, in therapy, always apologising for their behaviour etc. Usual the conventional ones are the diagnosed ones. With my wife’s eating disorder and self harm and suicide attempts, she is diagnosed, but certainly not one to say, “I wish my bpd didn’t make me behave this way”. In fact she considers herself cured as her self harming mental health is much better these days. I get the impression that many members of bpd family are dealing with an unconventional and undiagnosed pwbpd.

I don’t expect my wife ever to apologise for anything. I think it’s almost part of the shame that comes with the disorder. I said once before on here that my wife seems jealous of the satisfaction that I get from housework. Someone suggested that actually it was shame-related responses and I think this is often the case with her, but she keeps any such feelings very well hidden.

[Pook075]

The best I've received from my wife of 24 years (10 months separated) is, "I know I've made mistakes."  And while I'd love to get just a little more, I've realized that it's more than a lot of people here ever get.

When my wife did something minor that was cold (snapping at me, jerking away from me, anything like that), she'd usually apologize about 5 minutes later with, "I'm sorry, I don't know why I did that."  But for the bigger stuff, I'm never going to get an apology (other than the above) and I accept that.

I was thinking about this the other day.  The next time I see her, I'm going to say, "I'm really sorry for everything that happened."  I'm curious if that will get a positive response.  Probably not, but I want to say it anyway.

[Turkish]

What Pook075 said is similar to what I received later. Made "some mistakes." And...

"I'm sorry for all my wrongdoings" "I never should have left you!" (Late night call after a huge row with her husband for whom she left me) Or a Christmas card, "I'm sorry I was too selfish to share in your happiness." See the commonality?

If any remorse is telegraphed, I'd take it as a win, even if the underlying message is self-centered and validation-seeking. If you're still together, I'd consider it a validation target.

I don’t expect my wife ever to apologise for anything. I think it’s almost part of the shame that comes with the disorder.

This seems right. Never forget the torture of underlying shame. It helps me be less angry. Not that I take pleasure in another's suffering, but that the other person is suffering internally more, despite outward behaviors.

[WhoaBaby]

Thank you for your thoughtful replies with your experiences. I had a feeling remorse was too much to ask for. BTW: Ironically, my wife and I met decades ago in a self-improvement seminar whose guiding principle was accountability. Just another proof that God has a sense of humor!

[Suassíos]

Hi, this is an interesting thread. I’ve been really trying to learn and understand what is going on in my husbands mind, and also there is a larger family dynamic with his folks and siblings.

I listened to a good podcast on malignant narcissism recently and the presenter talked about how to show true remorse, the person would have to acknowledge your humanity and your vulnerability, which would potentially destroy their own sense of self that they have built up defensively blocking out acknowledgement of their own vulnerability to the pain of being let down by others.

It seems like a sort of vicious cycle: the harm is caused in part by them not treating you with the respect and value you deserve and that same lack of respect/value for you as a person who feels pain/hurt/disappointment prevents true feelings of remorse.

My husband is really trying a lot of the time to move beyond these patterns, but really getting stuck in to these patterns too very frequently.

I think it might not be just ironic that you met your partner on an accountability seminar, it might mean that inside there is a sense of wanting to be a person who is accountable. Well of course you know her best but it’s a possibility? The mind  of someone who has BPD traits seems to be very complex, and there might be good intentions that are very genuine in there along with the maladaptive systems.

[Pook075]

Interestingly enough, I've been telling my wife that I had to talk to her in person the past week or so.  We'll divorce soon and move on, but I wanted to tell her that I've met someone else and it's become serious in a long-distance relationship.  I couldn't tell her over the phone or let her hear it from the kids, and I figured that she might be upset afterwards.  And for the past 10 days, she's been putting it off.

Well, last night, she called and asked if she could come over with my daughter.  I said yes, and I swear I almost had a panic attack waiting for them to arrive.  We said a few pleasantries and then I told her that I have feelings for someone and I'm traveling to meet them.  She replied, "That's great, you deserve to be happy and you need to remarry."  And we continued to talk, a little about nothing, a little about her past, and then we started talking about us.  

She said that if she ever dates again or decides to marry, she's going to be completely open instead of hiding her feelings.  And I replied that would be huge for her, that her distance from me made me less outwardly affectionate as well.  We both really messed up and it's both our faults, she just nodded.  We talked some more about our past and my wife openly mentioned mistakes we made together, where we could have been very different to each other and had a great marriage.  

Then I finally used the line I mentioned the other day- "I'm really sorry for everything.  I'm moving on but I'll always love you."  She looked down and then started playing with her dog to avoid further conversation on that topic.

For me, it was closure that I never expected to receive.  For her, she got a genuine apology and realized that things could have turned out a lot differently.  It was really, really nice and I walked away feeling great.  I'm sure she hurt some once she was alone last night, but it's because of her own choices and I think she realizes that.  It was the best possible ending I could have hoped for and I never once mentioned BPD.  There was no need to.

Did I get an apology?  Not directly, but she did own her mistakes and I can see that she's grown emotionally.  I take that as a massive win no matter how you look at it.  She's happy being alone and I am thrilled to be in an incredible new relationship.

[WhoaBaby]

Suassios, Pook,
I am pleased that you found merit in my query about remorse. I have read a lot about BPD but never about that. I think most partners are focused on dealing with the tornado rather than its aftermath.
Regarding my wife's accountability, she recalled that a facilitator long ago told her that people should not force "accountability" on others but only use it to guide ourselves, IOW don't use it like a club on someone. Good advice but she tweaked this to excuse her responsibility for blowing up numerous relationships over time and not accepting responsibility or blame. If I called her out on her cruelty she always quoted that facilitator to shut me down.
So I'm not sure that she harbors a secret yearning to be accountable; it's more of a self-esteem-preservation instinct. Fortunately, she chose another route to recovery, dealing with her own extreme emotions and pain, without ever really addressing the consequences to others. She never ever wants to be "the bad guy." So, it cancels the remorse.
And Pook, that is one of the best happy-ending stories I've read. Good luck going forward.