Part 2: I am NEVER right ...I am ALWAYS wrong

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Oh my friend...You have been abused.  To say it's not her fault is naive.  She is not nice and you are reduced to believing you are not worthy of love or respect. She may have BPD but what you are describing is much more than BPD. You have no boundaries and now she "owns" you because you have let her in order to find "peace". This is not peace.  Seek therapy alone.  You need to rebuild yourself. Lots of love

I understand your response feelingf@!ked. It's not helpful though. I am aware that she is not nice. I believe that I am worthy of love and respect and I do not get that from her. I agree that she owns me because I let her. Are you in a BPD relationship? It looks like you have a friend with BPD. Being married to one is a different ball game.

I've been married for 26 years. I became aware of BPD within the past 4 years or so. The slide down the hill was gradual. I was unaware of the enormity of the problem until I was close to the bottom. Life is happening, kids are growing up, financial issues, ect. It all can overwhelm. Seeking peace in the way I did was all I knew how to do. I see now that it was foolish. Rebuild myself? Sure. That is why I'm here. Going to a therapist for myself is costly and not possible at the moment. I am seeking help here.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

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Can you remind me if she is open to any kind of counseling with you?

As always, thank you kells76. Very thoughtful and helpful. She is not open to counseling. Not in person with a therapist. BUT, I have had a breakthrough, I pray, over the past week. I've convinced her to listen to a biblical consoler via podcast. The podcast is called Transformed with Greg Gifford. (really excellent by the way) Since we both are Christian believers, this is I good way to introduce consoling. Even better, it's Christian based which she is more open to listen to.

There has been some change in her outlook. There seems to be some light shining into the darkness.
 
I am listening with her and I am trying to learn from it and incorporate it into my own behavior. I am hopeful that it may help heal some wounds and help both of us to move forward in a better more positive way.

I'm also not blind. I know that things may never get better, but I am hopeful. Any advice heading forward pertaining to the path we are on at the moment?

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So any hope of things getting better with the biblical counselor podcast fell apart over the weekend. 2.5 days of yelling and name calling. She keeps telling me that she doesn't believe I love her. Our marriage is doomed...same thing I've heard for years. She woke up the kids with her raging Sunday. My son and daughter both came out to confront her, to try to make her see she was irrational. To which my wife started accusing me of trying to get them on my side. Not true, they were just responding to the ridiculous chaos. My daughter has a car so when she had enough she left. Stayed gone most of the day. Son went to work. I was left with the madness. Hours of talk getting nowhere. It's maddening.

My question is, how much convincing or reassuring or whatever do I need to do? I'm tired of it, it's never is enough.

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Telling myself that things could get better. Having hope. Holding on to the possibility that we will regain or maybe gain for the first time a true love for one another seems really foolish. Am I deceiving myself? For the first time I believe I am facing that. I've been put down, disrespected, called awful things, spit on, cursed at, slapped, pushed, controlled, gaslighted, cheated on, nit picked, ...on and on. I don't know if I love her anymore. I don't know if I ever really did. Maybe it was just a hope, that things would get better. It's 28 years now, it's not better, only worse. Do I keep trying? She won't go to counseling, she tells me she hates me. Not one of my needs are ever met. I have no friends, my family is being pushed out. I am beyond unhappy. I try to reason with her...she yells. I try to be kind and understanding, it's not enough. I try to set boundaries, I am a horrible man for doing so. I hate it! I believe I am beginning to really hate her. At least what she does. I don't know if there is a difference. I don't care if this is a disorder. It's evil, it's unbearable.

[kells76]

What you've been through is so hurtful, not only physically, but also emotionally and, it sounds like, at a soul or spiritual level, perhaps. Multiple decades of her behavior has taken a toll on you.

Sometimes she seems to "turn a corner" or sometimes there seems to be someone else who can speak into her life -- though at this point, those "new leaves" don't seem to last as long as you'd like.

While it's disappointing that she was not able to consistently apply what she learned from the podcast, in a way I'm not surprised. Your relationship didn't get to where it is overnight. It's been a long time building, with long-term patterns at play. Maybe it sounds weird to frame it this way, but the relationship is between her and you, not her and the podcaster, if that makes sense, so what's important is less how she responds to the podcaster, and more how the dynamic between you and her goes. I get that you were hoping that she could apply some concepts from the podcast to how she relates to you, though, and it makes sense that it hurts that she didn't. The whole point of the podcast was hoping that it'd have an impact on her contribution to the dynamic between you two.

...

Do you feel like you've tried the following long enough to feel like they aren't effective approaches:

-hours of talk
-convincing her
-reassuring her

?

Do you feel like you are at the point of "nothing left to lose" in trying something different?

I.e., would there be any downside to trying something different? What if you were at a point in your relationship where trying something different probably couldn't make things worse than they are, but had the potential to make things better? Would you be open to that?

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...

Do you feel like you've tried the following long enough to feel like they aren't effective approaches:

-hours of talk
-convincing her
-reassuring her

?

Good questions. Yes I believe I've done these long enough and they are ineffective.

Do you feel like you are at the point of "nothing left to lose" in trying something different?

yes. I believe if this week she decides to not listen and implement any of the help given by the counselor, then I will be ready to try something different.

So heres another thing she does. She's been texting me hurtful things all day, I confronted her on it at lunch and she ultimately hung up on me. She had family over to our house and obviously they filled her tank a bit because now she is sending me peace offerings via text. Everything in me says there is no peace, but as the night progresses I will bite because I am exhausted from the weekend. Then the cycle will start again.

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It went the way I figured. We ended up getting along great last night. This morning before I left to go to work was peaceful.

Then I drove away in my wife's truck. She had asked me to take the truck so she could take my son out in my car to work on his drivers license. She wants him to learn in my car.

She said she felt weird letting the truck go. That she has nothing, that's all she has. She then went on talking about how she should have a job...she has no money. I agree by the way, but I can't say anything because last time I did she worked at a job she didn't want and ended up in an affair with her boss and she blames me for it. Anyway, things started going south on the ride to work. The phone call ended badly because she would not let me punch in because she was talking and she's more important than my job. She texted me all morning demanding me to address her issues which I can't text and work but she doesn't care. Tried to discuss this with her at lunch where she bulldozed over everything I said. Now she texted me that I disgust her and don't call or text.

Without saying anything else, how would anyone out there handle this at this point? Any real honest reality check?

[Pook075]

It went the way I figured. We ended up getting along great last night. This morning before I left to go to work was peaceful.

Then I drove away in my wife's truck. She had asked me to take the truck so she could take my son out in my car to work on his drivers license. She wants him to learn in my car.

She said she felt weird letting the truck go. That she has nothing, that's all she has. She then went on talking about how she should have a job...she has no money. I agree by the way, but I can't say anything because last time I did she worked at a job she didn't want and ended up in an affair with her boss and she blames me for it. Anyway, things started going south on the ride to work. The phone call ended badly because she would not let me punch in because she was talking and she's more important than my job. She texted me all morning demanding me to address her issues which I can't text and work but she doesn't care. Tried to discuss this with her at lunch where she bulldozed over everything I said. Now she texted me that I disgust her and don't call or text.

Without saying anything else, how would anyone out there handle this at this point? Any real honest reality check?

Honest reality check time.

• You take your wife's truck because you're told to.
  Your wife gripes because you took the truck.
  Your wife needs a job, you agree, but you don't trust her.
  You can't text at work.  Your wife continually texts you at work.
  Your wife wants to deal with problems, but doesn't let you talk.
  Your wife says you're disgusting.

Reality check- you have zero boundaries in your relationship because you're walking on eggshells.  That probably worked for awhile just letting your wife do whatever, but that didn't fix her so she's turning her anger towards you.  And you're just taking it, taking all her venom, and wondering why it's not getting any better.

Here's how I would handle the situation with my wife.

• You want to take my car for the day? That's fine.
• You miss your truck?  Sorry, but that was your idea.  Maybe just teach our son to drive in the truck, or work with him in my car after I'm home from work.  Let me know what works best for you.
• I agree, you should get a job. But I can't go through what happened the last time.
• I can't text at work.  If you don't respect that, I'll have to turn my phone off during work hours.
• I'm still at work and can't talk.  Let me give you some time to cool down so we can have a productive conversation this evening.
• I can understand why you'd feel that way, but it's hurtful and offensive. I am going to go for a walk so you have some time to calm down.

These are boundaries and they are healthy in a BPD relationship.  It's saying, "If you do X, then I will respond with Y."  Most of the time, "Y" is going to be to walk away or end the conversation. But when it comes to an affair or something like that, then "Y" has to be taking the kids somewhere else.  You can't walk on eggshells and expect real change.

[kells76]

Hey Link;

Good questions. Yes I believe I've done these long enough and they are ineffective.

yes. I believe if this week she decides to not listen and implement any of the help given by the counselor, then I will be ready to try something different.

So heres another thing she does. She's been texting me hurtful things all day, I confronted her on it at lunch and she ultimately hung up on me. She had family over to our house and obviously they filled her tank a bit because now she is sending me peace offerings via text. Everything in me says there is no peace, but as the night progresses I will bite because I am exhausted from the weekend. Then the cycle will start again.

Your W texting you at work -- and you responding -- seems to stand out to other members here, myself included, as an area of recurring conflict for your relationship.

You're getting to a point where you can say you're ready to try something different.

What change(s) around your interaction with your W's texts at work do you think would be truly do-able? Not just "it would be nice if I could", but something -- even bite sized -- where you could say "you know what, I've tried everything else, and trying XYZ instead of ABC is something I would definitely stick with".

Pook075 made some suggestions about statements you could make (with connected actions). I wonder if any of those sound to you like "yes, I am ready to really try doing that"?

Another different thing to try would be -- in the past, how soon after your W texting you at work would you reply? Instantly? One minute? Ten minutes? Other?

Do you think you could increase the time between her texts and your response? How would that feel? Do you think you could stick with that?

Lots of options for different directions to move forward. Do you have any other ideas of steps you could take where you are ready to commit?

Hope you had some down time this weekend;

kells76