Parenting: we are not our mothers

[Notwendy]

I wanted to pull this topic out of another thread, because I think it's a common one for us. Our parents are our role models and the same sex parent becomes a role model for how we see a male or female acts in their gender roles. This can vary between families as I think some of the learned roles can vary. For instance, I know guys who saw that their father liked to cook and they learned to cook too. For my H, his mother did all the cooking and traditional "housewife" jobs so he didn't have this role modeled for him.

So what do we do when our mother's don't do things as traditionally done by women- mothering, nurturing, cooking, housework? For some of us, these jobs were shared and both parents were also in the workplace, but that wasn't modeled for me either. So, how do we assume our roles as mothers, caregivers, and also be productive in the workplace if we choose and how to we manage the household tasks with a partner - when we have not had any of this role modeled for us?

And how does a male partner become comfortable with sharing or taking on roles that they didn't see role modeled for them either?

I didn't want to be like my mother, but I didn't know how to do that in a normal way, so I went to the other extreme- becoming something like a TV mother/housewife of the 60's while also embracing the "women in the workforce" ideals of the 1970's. Then married someone whose role model was out of the 1950's too. And being co-dependent and wanting to have everyone happy- and that was not sustainable emotionally. And also if I fell short of my own expectations, I feared I'd be acting like my mother.

Sometimes, dinner doesn't get cooked.
Sometimes we just don't feel up to par for various reasons.
Sometimes we just lose it with our kids or our spouses because we are human.
Sometimes the house is a mess.

I think we could be our own worst critic because of how any mistakes were responded to in our families of origin.

I think one difference between these times of not living up to our own standards is that these are the exceptions, not the usual, and there's consistent love.

Another is that we are accountable and are able to make amends to our children and spouses.

Another is that we have boundaries. There is only so far we can go with our anger and words.

I think one thing we have difficulty doing is asking for help if we need it. We aren't used to being able to ask our mothers or rely on them if we needed something. Our role was to meet their needs.

Sometimes, dinner doesn't get cooked so we can do take out or eat peanut butter sandwiches for dinner or leftovers or open a can of tuna. As long as most meals are nutritious, this isn't going to matter.

Sometimes we just don't feel up to par for various reasons- so we can ask for a play date, call a babysitter, or let the kids watch a movie as long as long they don't have constant screen time daily.

Sometimes we just lose it with our kids or our spouses because we are human but we can apologize and give them lots of love and try better next time.

Sometimes the house is a mess and so what. It will be cleaned up eventually.

And - we are changing the patterns we grew up with for the better- it may not be perfect but it is making some difference and we are striving for better

[zachira]

I have enormous respect for the kind of mother you are to your children and how you have become your own person in your own right. In psychology, they talk about a parent having to be a "good enough parent" that there is no such thing as being the perfect parent, especially in a role that is 24 hours a day for many years and lasts until our children become adults. It seems you are talking more about how sometimes you have painful doubts about your role as a mother and wife because how you were constantly criticized by your mother and because she was the kind of mother you never wanted to be with no road map for how to be a mother. I too was the scapegoat of my mother, and frequently am filled with feelings of self doubt and being unworthy. I did not dare to marry or have children because of how much I feared being like my mother. Know that these feelings of doubt are temporary as long as we ackowledge them in meaningful ways. I also respect you for how you are able to look at yourself and decide to do things differently than your parents did. How many people do you know who have this level of self awareness and willingness to continue to strive to be the best person they can be? It seems most people do not change much throughout their lives and they resent any feedback that sounds like criticism. Our mothers with BPD can/could never tolerate any kind of feedback whereas we daughters are often tortured by feeling we are doing too many things wrong. I am glad you are able to give yourself a well deserved pat on the back for all the things you are doing differently than your parents did and how you have made a better life for youself, your husband, and your children. Most of all, you have started a new intergenerational cycle of healthiness, and broken the cycle of abuse.

[PinkPanther]

Being a parent and having BPD parents is very difficult. We have to learn so much stuff on our own and figure so many things out on our own.

It requires us to unravel so much stuff ... Stuff I didn't ask to be a part of!

My mom was a very... conditional mom. I have scattered good memories of her at different points of life but it was not consistent. It was all based on what she felt made her feel and look good. Aside from that I was praised for being responsible and helpful. I have had to come to terms that most of my relationships were this way and there is more to a person than being responsible.

I was a mini mom most of my life and my siblings look at me like a mom and even my mom treats me like I am her parent.

I am a very traditional wife/mother in the sense of following certain roles as they feel more natural but no matter the role, we all need help and care. No one person can do and be all things, all the time. I didn't learn anything from my mom in terms of how to BE a mom. I mostly learned what not to do. I learned from witnessing my peers parents, reading a lot and just being around others. I knew very early on my mom was not really a suitable parent even though it took me many years to accept it.

Personally I am more concerned about my children feeling loved than appearing perfect. I am pretty much a hot mess and my life is messy !

It's all a work in progress. You are right, it may not be perfect. It is a great pressure to break those chains, though.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I wonder what thread you read that on... Seriously though, thank you, even though we are all going through this in some way or another, I feel like you wrote this for me to show support and I appreciate it, thank you Notwendy.

While all this was happening yesterday, some words you had written to me popped again and again into my head, like a lifeline slowly pulling me out of the water, that I could apologize, that I could make it better.

I think I fear my daughter...

She has always been a very high sensitive child, I get that everyone thinks their kid is high demand and high sensitive, and it all makes it very very hard to find actual support in how to deal with her. She is teaching herself to read right now, she is awfully smart, she could count in both languages at 18 months up to twenty, she was doing 60 pieces puzzles too, and it's not even to brag, it's just to say and she was grasping more things about the world than she was emotionally ready for. I have a second child now, I KNOW she is crazy alert and astute compared to the average child, and her eyes are just... Scanning and a bit cold at times... She is emotionally wild. She would bursts and it would last hours at a time, and there was NOTHING that would work to calm her down.

And now, I am alone with both of them, and she has been given me a very hard time. Whenever I tell her no, she started hitting me, and talking to me with such disrespect. And I have absolutely NO IDEA if this attitude is normal or to be expected from a 5 years old or not. I have NO idea, No tools how to proceed.

I just closed a movie because it was time to go to bed. It's routine, she knows that, it's always like that, and she started screaming NO I DECIDE AND YOU WILL PUT THE MOVIE BACK, and she threw me a pillow. Then she proceeded to open confrontation and started acting up when her brother chose the story. And started crying saying she was jealous of him, because I had invited him to come sit with us. I just spend 45 minutes stroking HER hair, cuddling on the couch, and I get a jealousy crisis because I invited her little brother to sit with us?

I don't even know where she even saw this exemple, this way to be? Is this me? My son is not like that, my husband gets angry, but he controls himself and he keeps showing respect. I don't recall ever really screaming like that. Is that even normal behavior for a soon to be five years old?

I am going insane. It is driving me crazy how she acts with me, like I am a doormat. Then I need to put boundaries in place, and she doesn't give a damn. And she is just 4 ffs, how am I ever going to survive this if it keep going this way?

I can't stop myself thinking she got my mother genes. I know BPD is partly genetic, and I see so much signs, and it scares the   out of me. And I don't want to biases myself, I don't want to see that in her, I love her so freacking much. I feel like I am losing it. The more she grows the more she is developing some kind of vibe I really don't like... She lies a lot too. I don't know what she gets and doesn't get, she is just five, yet she sometimes say things that really put me off. And I can't tell if it's my trauma or if there really is something going on.

She's been disrespectful to her father too, and I mean... She listens to us, she really does... But it's... It's hard to explain. I must be doing something wrong. Maybe I answer to much, maybe I should ignore some things more. I don't know anymore. I have no idea. Just... Surviving this I guess.

And I get that her father is not here, and maybe this is all related, but it started happening way before he left. I worry about the genes she carries.

So it's not just about me fearing I am not a good mother, it's also about what I see developing in front of my eyes, and managing my expectations, my trauma, my own biases, knowing what is true, what isn't, what I can do, what is not in my power. I love her so so much, and I am so so scared.

[NarcsEverywhere]

I mean, my guess Riv3rw0lf is just that it’s hard to be number one and then suddenly be number two for her, she gets a lot less of your attention, since her brother was born, right? But alas, I’m not you, or a parent or Mother, so feel free to defer to others.

[PinkPanther]

I wonder what thread you read that on... Seriously though, thank you, even though we are all going through this in some way or another, I feel like you wrote this for me to show support and I appreciate it, thank you Notwendy.

While all this was happening yesterday, some words you had written to me popped again and again into my head, like a lifeline slowly pulling me out of the water, that I could apologize, that I could make it better.

I think I fear my daughter...

She has always been a very high sensitive child, I get that everyone thinks their kid is high demand and high sensitive, and it all makes it very very hard to find actual support in how to deal with her. She is teaching herself to read right now, she is awfully smart, she could count in both languages at 18 months up to twenty, she was doing 60 pieces puzzles too, and it's not even to brag, it's just to say and she was grasping more things about the world than she was emotionally ready for. I have a second child now, I KNOW she is crazy alert and astute compared to the average child, and her eyes are just... Scanning and a bit cold at times... She is emotionally wild. She would bursts and it would last hours at a time, and there was NOTHING that would work to calm her down.

And now, I am alone with both of them, and she has been given me a very hard time. Whenever I tell her no, she started hitting me, and talking to me with such disrespect. And I have absolutely NO IDEA if this attitude is normal or to be expected from a 5 years old or not. I have NO idea, No tools how to proceed.

I just closed a movie because it was time to go to bed. It's routine, she knows that, it's always like that, and she started screaming NO I DECIDE AND YOU WILL PUT THE MOVIE BACK, and she threw me a pillow. Then she proceeded to open confrontation and started acting up when her brother chose the story. And started crying saying she was jealous of him, because I had invited him to come sit with us. I just spend 45 minutes stroking HER hair, cuddling on the couch, and I get a jealousy crisis because I invited her little brother to sit with us?

I don't even know where she even saw this exemple, this way to be? Is this me? My son is not like that, my husband gets angry, but he controls himself and he keeps showing respect. I don't recall ever really screaming like that. Is that even normal behavior for a soon to be five years old?

I am going insane. It is driving me crazy how she acts with me, like I am a doormat. Then I need to put boundaries in place, and she doesn't give a damn. And she is just 4 ffs, how am I ever going to survive this if it keep going this way?

I can't stop myself thinking she got my mother genes. I know BPD is partly genetic, and I see so much signs, and it scares the   out of me. And I don't want to biases myself, I don't want to see that in her, I love her so freacking much. I feel like I am losing it. The more she grows the more she is developing some kind of vibe I really don't like... She lies a lot too. I don't know what she gets and doesn't get, she is just five, yet she sometimes say things that really put me off. And I can't tell if it's my trauma or if there really is something going on.

She's been disrespectful to her father too, and I mean... She listens to us, she really does... But it's... It's hard to explain. I must be doing something wrong. Maybe I answer to much, maybe I should ignore some things more. I don't know anymore. I have no idea. Just... Surviving this I guess.

And I get that her father is not here, and maybe this is all related, but it started happening way before he left. I worry about the genes she carries.

So it's not just about me fearing I am not a good mother, it's also about what I see developing in front of my eyes, and managing my expectations, my trauma, my own biases, knowing what is true, what isn't, what I can do, what is not in my power. I love her so so much, and I am so so scared.

I am sorry you are experiencing this. This is that part where being the child of a BPD parent gets really difficult:you don't know what's normal, what's not and you don't want your child to be like your parent. There is a hypervigilance there. I understand, I think.

Like NarcsEverywhere said, it seems to be a combination of things:your daughter being (naturally) jealous that she is no longer #1 and she is at an age where alot of things are normal like outbursts and telling fibs. But this is also based on the temperament of the child. It's great that you see that your child has a unique temperament. Alot of parents ignore it. Have you thought about having her screened by a childhood specialist? It could be a number of things combined that draw up the behaviors you are concerned about and some of it is age appropriate. I feel this way about not baby daughter... I feel like I am looking at who my mom was as a baby and child many years ago. My daughter is still in toddlerhood but she is extremely high maintenance and always scanning the room, very precocious and easily upset. I feel as though my mom was this way too and the people that raised her didn't know what to do so they punished her instead, which activated her BPD (I believe there can def. be a genetic component). So far I see that my daughter's needs are much more intricate than my eldest child. So I study a lot and have a journal I keep to write what's going on with her so that I can notice and patterns. It's hard to see clearly when a child is demanding and high maintenance.

I say all of that to say, I hear you, I understand you and I hope that you are able to find the space to mediate on what your daughter may need so that your family peace improves. She sounds frustrated and you are a wonderful parent for acknowledging that she struggles and being concerned. Alot of parents really don't care... They just punish and don't work through things.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Pinkpanther and Narcs,

Yes I am aware she is jealous, and that this is normal. And, I did take extra precautions by having alone time with her at lunch time and even when my son was born, I took one hour alone with her per day. My H took extra parental leave to make the transition easier for everyone. She has also always been welcome if her little brother jumps on me for a hug, I have two arms, and it's for the both of them, this was always made quite clear.

For the age appropriate things, this is what is killing me, because she is so very mature for her age, and she speaks so very well, and when she acts this way, she is acting her age, but...her tantrums have the strength of 10 of my son's tantrums. And it's like I don't know HOW to approach her with all this. I don't want to create the trauma unwillingly. And this is also what has been eating me up over time. I am already doing the best I can and it never seems enough.

I feel inadequate in ways I never felt inadequate before.

Also, even if I wanted to punish her, I wouldn't have time for it, she will punish herself. At least she stops hurting herself but she used to hurt herself because the emotions were too big. Now she breaks things, mostly drawings she made for me, in an effort to hurt me like she hurts. So you see, it isn't just normal jealousy, there are many layers to this.

I can stand right there with her, in silence just waiting, I can stand there with her offering my arms, compassion and she just screams and screams in pain. I would try to hug her to help her calm down and she would hit me and bursts, it made it all worst. I would tell her she wasn't being punished, that I didn't know what to do and would wait for her when she was ready to share what was happening. It would take so long... She would come back, calm, and I have NO IDEA what was registered in her mind when this kind of things happened. Those were never normal tantrums like my son has, never. But no one believes me, because everyone assumes the mother is just making a big deal out of nothing and every child is high needs. But I have eyes and friends and people I talked to about this, I have a second child, I know there is nothing normal about it. So I now wonder how to prevent the freacking trauma without becoming completely crazy myself.

Also, I don't think I want her labeled. She is much too young for that right now. I know what she is, I just wished people would believe me. I just need tools.

The book : the highly sensitive child was useful. She was raised with this kind of attentive parenting. We co-slept, I took years off work because I instinctively knew day care would break her completely, took a nanny instead to get myself some breathing room 15 hours per week, organized playdates with friends for social... I did my absolute best to manoeuver around her sensitivity and provide her with the mental stimulation she needed... I guess I need to find a book for spirited children now or whatever the label is for this nowadays.

And I need to take my own fear out of the equation which is just... Where to even begin.

[Notwendy]

Riv3rWolf- I did see your post and felt this topic was common and would fit its own message thread.

Our children are a unique combination of genes and have their own temperaments. She may have some of your mother's genes, because you do as well, but consider this- she can't have more of your mother's genes than you do. You are a combination of both your parents and she's got your H's genes too.

You are not your mother and neither is she.

I have thought that interacting with my mother feels like I am interacting with a 4 year old. The difference is that-  the 4 year old is acting their emotional age. Although it's possible that BPD is inherited, one can't make that determination at age 4. 4 year olds also lie- but they aren't cognitively doing it on purpose. It's their magical thinking and lack of maturity that are behind that. They will later comprehend what lying is.

I have raised one of those strong willed children and yes, at times her behavior scared me but it isn't because of her but of my own reactions to her behavior. I also fear people being angry at me. Because I was so afraid of "acting like my mother" - I tended to go on the opposite direction and be too permissive. I began to work on co-dependency because of the adult relationships in my world but it also helped with my parenting as well as it shows us how to manage our fears and resentments in relationships, how to have better boundaries, and how to manage our own emotions when our kids are angry at us. And she could get angry when we said "no" to something.

I read a lot of parenting books. Not all methods work best with all children. One series that I heard of later that I think would have been a good read is the "Parenting with Love and Logic" series. I also read the highly sensitive child and used some of those recommendations too.

Understandably, you are afraid of causing her trauma, but, you are not causing her trauma as you are a loving and caring parent. She might be angry at boundaries and rules but that isn't trauma.

I also understand the concern about labels, but there's another side to that- labels can then lead to a direction for what to do because there's information about how to manage certain behaviors and also how to support the child's development- but another part to this is support for the parents because that is very needed and helpful. Parent support groups are a chance to share advice. My kids are grown now and so I know of their peers - some who grew up without "labels" ( due to their parents not wanting them) and some who did. I tend to be a bit biased towards the labels because some of these kids had behavioral issues at school and the label provided a direction and a bit of protection for these kids as teachers had guidance about how to manage. You don't have to decide right now but something to keep in mind as she is in the school years as it might not be needed. For some kids, they behaved better at school due to having a routine and lots of stimulation- friends, learning.

I have also seen where kids tend to act out more with their mothers because, it feels emotionally safer to do so. Of course it's hard on you but it's also because this is a secure attachment.

I read an interesting book on older children and one idea is that we get triggered by their behavior when it reminds us of our own, unresolved issues. One of my fears is that my kids would feel the same way about me as I felt about my mother growing up so when they had tantrums, it scared me. The teen age years were difficult when they'd reject my suggestions but that is a normal stage for them. A good read for that stage was "Get Out of My Life but First Can You Drive Me and Cheryl to the Mall"

Young children don't have strong emotional regulation skills- and to learn them is a developmental task. We aim to keep our kids safe but we need to also give them space for self management. With 4-5 year olds, that isn't a lot of space when it comes to keeping them safe, but we can step back and let them deal with their feelings themselves. Tantrums aren't rational- they are emotional outbursts. It may be that not trying to hug her and to let her become calm on her own is the better idea. If she wants to rip up her drawings, then she does. As long as she has a safe space to tantrum where she isn't hurting herself- she can learn to calm down.

Where is your H and when is he coming home? It is stressful to be taking care of 2 little ones 24/7. If it's going to be a while and you need some assistance, it's OK to bring in a sitter for a few hours, for your own stress relief.

[Methuen]

Riv3rw0lf,

When our kids were very young, we had some concerns about one of them.  We consulted with what was then called a Child Development Center.  It may be called something different now.  It is not a daycare.  It is a place where professionals assess and support children and their families in the realm of early childhood development.  It offers services in the areas of assessment, PT, OT and speech therapy for the child, and education and support for the parents.

It sounds like your area of concern for your daughter is in the area of emotional development- as potentially you are wondering if she is a highly sensitive child.  

CDC’s are staffed with learned experts who have experience and a genuine love of children and the desire to support them and their families.  We found their support invaluable, as there were issues and delays we didn’t know how to manage, and early intervention is key.

Our story has a happy ending.  But I can’t say enough good things about the support including parenting support we got from this source.

I’m not sure if this is something you would be interested in pursuing.  Where I live, people can still self-refer.  Perhaps if you were able to access this kind of professional service, you could either receive advice that she is still in the range of normal and thus relax your fears, or receive support and intervention/therapy if it is warranted so that she can develop to her best emotional potential.  Once they start school, it can be a completely different system.  Generally speaking, the earliest interventions can have the best outcomes.  If there was a label, you could decide if you want it to follow her in the school system.  

Another option is to discuss it with your daughter’s pediatrician if she has one, or ask for a referral to see a pediatrician.  

At any rate, talking to experts in the field of early childhood development could address your concerns, and help with your anxiety around her behavior.  Maybe it would ease your mind, or provide parenting suggestions/support.

Just an idea which could maybe also provide you with reassurance.

[livednlearned]

Riv3rW0lf,

You have so much invested in your own well-being and aren't afraid to search for new ways of doing things. Your daughter might be sensitive but you are not the same mother you had. You are a creative problem solver. You are here.

My son is highly sensitive too. When he was a toddler I used to say he had "big feelings." He had meltdowns of epic proportion. Your daughter may be leaning more toward anger to cope with her strong feelings but the intensity sounds similar. In a fit of rage, my son stabbed another child in the chest with a pencil in elementary school. Fortunately it was winter and the kids were wearing thick coats and no damage was done, but my son went from 0 to rage in 1 second. And this kid was a friend. Like you, I witnessed his strong emotions and sensitivities and people seemed to brush it off. Until he almost hurt someone. I was called to the school and we handled it but to be honest, I wasn't surprised. When my son was angry, it was intense. Like his BPD dad.

I understand not wanting to have your child labeled.

My own journey with child psychologists has been helpful but it's mostly books that got us where we are today. However, despite assessments and evaluations, psychologists I consulted didn't seem to really care about labels. It was more like they were arrows pointing in directions, giving them a sense of how to guide us. I pushed for testing and in some ways I was the one who took the test outcomes most to heart. Everyone else focused on emotions and behaviors.

My son's life has been so very, very challenging. Too fast, too loud, too bright. His dad was mean, a drunk, inconsistent, narcissistic, volatile, and is no longer in his life. S21 was sick for most of high school with 4 surgeries, then Covid. He is also insanely intelligent, has a great sense of humor, is an original thinker, sees things others don't see, synthesizes information in ways most people don't. I adore him. The same child who crawled into the fetal position and rolled under tables at school is still sensitive, and he is learning to manage himself. He has anxiety and knows his limits, has a few skills to work through tough spots.

He is not BPD.

You are smart to want tools or skills.

The book Don't Alienate the Kids by Bill Eddy was a game changer for me. It's written for parents who want to raise emotionally resilient kids when one parent has BPD, and is mainly for co-parenting. But focusing on "flexible thinking, managed emotions, and moderate behaviors" changed my life. I went from focusing on my son's behavior to reflecting on mine, how I was responding, what I was modeling, what I was doing. Co-parenting a highly sensitive child when one parent has BPD during a custody battle is tough work. Even if it isn't quite the same situation you're in, I wonder if it might be useful.

Parenting Kids with Validation was also a game changer. I had never heard of validation until then.

You Don't Have to Make Everything All Better by the Lundstrom's took my validation skills to the next level.

Because of my BPD stepdaughter I read BPD in Adolescence by Blaire Aguirre. He does a good job explaining how BPD is different than regular hormonal teen stuff.

Sensitive kids seem to need extreme validation. I made validation a priority, even if other parents or educators thought I was indulging my son. No one in my son's life had his back when it came to his strong emotions. I shifted from thinking something was wrong with him to thinking something was wrong with people around him. They were always pointing out what was wrong, what needed fixing, what had to change. He was in such deep defense mode so I met him where he was.

He trusts me.

Your daughter trusts you. She's probably afraid of her own feelings to some extent. I would consult with a child psychologist, even if it's just you asking questions about the best way to handle your daughter's outbursts. Make sure it's someone you like. If you decide to move ahead and have that person work with your daughter, make sure they like your daughter and vice versa. Liking each other is key. The first psychologist my son had, he didn't really like. She talked down to him, when I think back on it, and she moved too fast. There has to be trust, full stop. I sat in on one of their sessions and felt like they were quite connecting and wish I had listened to that voice. It turned out to be accurate. Nothing bad happened, it's just that they didn't have chemistry and we could've saved some time and money.

The second therapist was a gift. Truly profound things happened in that relationship. What a skilled man he was, and a genuine person. He loved his work, and he saw things in my son I had missed, helping me see the person who was emerging instead of the damage that had been done.

Is your daughter having any episodes with friendships?

[Mommydoc]

Riv3rWOlf, this sounds very difficult.  I love that you posted this and have gotten so much support and good advice. 

You have a lot of things going on, and it might be natural to go to your place of greatest fear “ my daughter is my mom”.   Your daughter is not your mom. NotWendy’s comment is so important.

I have thought that interacting with my mother feels like I am interacting with a 4 year old. The difference is that-  the 4 year old is acting their emotional age. Although it's possible that BPD is inherited, one can't make that determination at age 4. 4 year olds also lie- but they aren't cognitively doing it on purpose. It's their magical thinking and lack of maturity that are behind that. They will later comprehend what lying is.

All of the behaviors you describe in your daughter could be related to age, temperament  and her circumstances.   As a pediatrician, I can reassure you that many, many first children experience intense jealousy and demonstrate behaviors, we as mothers don’t expect or understand. Every child is different.  From your description, she probably is highly sensitive, and that will require you to develop different parenting skills; your son will likely always be a little more easy going.   There are some really beautiful things in HSP.  You are a great mother.  I know that.   Your daughter is so lucky, as I know you will be curious, learn, and adapt with her on this path. 

I hear you say you don’t want her labeled and I understand that.  I also heard you say you need guidance.  I like Livednlearned book suggestions and the suggestion for a child psychologist to evaluate her.  You can do this independent of the school system and it will be completely confidential, no label.  Just insights. A skilled child psychologist, will be able to help you sort through what is totally normal, and also help map out the adjustments you can make to help your daughter.   Boundaries and structure help, but you need to feel confident, that you are doing this out of love and kindness.  If you are not comfortable with a child psychologist, perhaps set up time with your pediatrician, to talk through it all, and ask for their guidance.  You are not your mother, nor is your daughter.  You are a wonderful mother.  Thank you for your vulnerability. 

[Riv3rW0lf]

Thank you all so much for sharing your own experiences and advices.

You all offered good thoughts and I wanted to answer each and single one of you, but truth be told, I am exhausted.

I do believe my daughter is, to some extent, scared of her own emotions and maybe ashamed of them as well. And she is driven more by anger than any other emotions... And I have maybe been more permissive with her than I oughta, because I don't like her being angry with me. I mean...truly, you all wrote so many things that resonated and I will have to read them all again.

I decided to try and contact children psychologists, to see if I can get some help, some tools... I don't know if H will go along with this, but at this point, I think I need it... Better to act on this early, because I don't know that I'm acting in an age appropriate manner with her and I might need someone to coach me on this.

I will have to turn toward what I can do, and stop looking at the potential damages. I don't even know if there are any. It's just.. fear and anxiety, and I need to take a grip.

Ho yeah, I learned today my son's homecare is closing in two weeks. Because I really needed that too. Seems like it's my turn to get a challenge ! Life does that, doesn't it ... Maybe it's a blessing in disguise. Maybe I will just enjoy my summer with both my children while they still want to play with me. We will see...

Thank you all very much again. I was very vulnerable. Still am. But it's ok, I will find a way. For her and for him. Children are the worst. The freacking love always pushing us forward, it's exhausting to love this much, ain't it?

Good night

[GaGrl]

Coming in late here...

My mother's stepmother, who married my grandad when Mom was only 6 years old, was a full-fledged yet undiagnosed NPD/BPD. Much damage was done. My mother definitely retained some residual issues -- not sure if it was CPTSD or a few BPD traits, but she was functional, yet damaged.

I will always be in awe of my mother's resilience. I know, because we had these conversations, that she very deliberately and consciously chose to mother in a different way than she was so abusively mothered. She planned to be different -- said she often said to herself, "When I have childten, I won't ABC."

That said, much damage was done and was ingrained. I was so often invalidated. My resentment grew and caused years of resentment and interference in a relationship that could have been more mutually nurturing and intimate.

Generational pain and dysfunction...how to break the cycle?

[Notwendy]

I decided to try and contact children psychologists, to see if I can get some help, some tools... I don't know if H will go along with this, but at this point, I think I need it... Better to act on this early, because I don't know that I'm acting in an age appropriate manner with her and I might need someone to coach me on this.

I think this is a great idea. Think of it as support for you- for something we didn't have support for. We don't have the kind of mother we can call for advice. We aren't able to call up grandma for emotional support or ask her to come help when we feel we need a break. Parenting is new territory for us. We know what we don't want to do- which is act like our mothers do- but we don't know what we should do. We don't have role models for that.

Support for your fear and anxiety are important. It isn't your fault at all but how we respond to our kids is influenced by our own emotions. It's hard to see a child get emotional and angry and act out. For us, this may resemble our out of control parent. We may cognitively know better, but emotionally we feel what we feel. A child psychologist can help both child and parent.

Your H may not understand as well since he didn't grow up in the same circumstances. There doesn't need to be anything "wrong" with your D or for her to have a label for you to seek support from an expert when we don't have a supportive resource for our parenting role. Explain that you want the help- for yourself so you can be the best parent for your child.

[Methuen]

I decided to try and contact children psychologists, to see if I can get some help, some tools...

Awesome.    They provide support and information/education. They can also do assessments, and you get to decide what to do with the results.  This was also a part of the service we received from the Child Development Center I mentioned.  In the preschool/daycare setting, I also found accredited and experienced early childhood educators (preschool/daycare) helpful, but that was 25 years ago, and it may have changed since then... Once the child is in school, it is a different story, but teachers are a very caring crop of professionals generally speaking, and it is also helpful to build a positive relationship with your child's teacher and work as a team.  I used every source of support I could get my hands on to help me hone my parenting skills, since I could not turn to my mother for advice, and was very attuned to "not being my mother".  

Your obvious love and concern for your daughter shows you are a great mom.  Nobody's Perfect, and we have to forgive ourselves for our inexperience.  Kids don't come with a manual. You've got this.  

[Notwendy]

One of the things I did that I felt shame about was hiring sitters.

Why the shame? Because of my idea of not being like my mother. But these are ideas we formed in childhood based on our child-like ideas. I think I was mostly raised by sitters. BPD mother didn't work outside the home. This was the norm in her era, but my friends were all raised by their mothers and we had sitters almost all the time. As a kid, I wanted a "mommy" too. Why didn't my mother want to do this?

With what I know now, the sitters weren't because my mother didn't want to be a mother to us, it's because she couldn't do it, and Dad was keeping us safe. It was actually better for us to have the contact with a non disordered sitter than with her. But logic is different from childhood feelings.

I did work outside the home and didn't feel badly about having child care so I could work. But the idea of having child care so I could do something fun for myself, or just to help me felt shameful, because emotionally I worried that this meant I was not a good enough mother.

The circumstances though - and this is in response to Riv3rw0lf's post is that often my H was not around to help for various reasons, one being an irregular work schedule. I was mostly on my own in the day to day parenting. If I wanted to do anything besides child care, I needed a sitter. In addition, there were times I needed an extra pair of hands such as when having a newborn. Grandparents were not an option. I trusted H's parents but travelling was an obstacle for them and I knew to not ask my mother.

One way I got help was with neighborhood young teens. If they were reliable, they could play with an older child while I was tending to a baby, or even just play with the kids for a little bit so I could straighten up the house. It's a good situation for both the teen- they earn a little money. The kids think they are playing with a "big kid" and I get something done. This isn't a situation where we can leave the house- we need to be present but if the kids are playing in the next room, and we are in the kitchen or laundry room, it's a safe situation, and takes some of the stress off trying to do a task when the kids want our attention.

If there is a local college, that's a resource for older and more responsible young adults who may not be able to fit a work schedule around a school schedule but who would be happy to earn some money for a few hours. Most colleges have a student employment center where people can post jobs for college students- so that's a place to look.

For me, I had some idealized image - made up in childhood- of the kind of mommy I wanted based on ideas from stories, or TV, or movies. It wasn't a realistic image. It was also based on "not being my mother". So if I were to do something that resembled what she did, like hire a sitter, or get angry with my kids, I would feel inadequate and afraid. While my BPD mother didn't do much mothering, she also didn't role model a mother going out to pursue another focus.

My friends seemed to have some other focus besides parenting and work- they'd go to dance class at night while their spouses watched the kids, or the church women's group, or play tennis, or something. I didn't do these things- didn't really know how to do them. For some reason, I don't feel comfortable in groups of women. Although I had close friends in school, I felt like an outsider. I think this could have been due to the secrets we had in our home and I don't feel comfortable being too close friends with women, and I think that's because it's hard to trust, although I have had close female friends, just less often and not a group and it takes time for me to begin to trust someone. It wasn't only women, dating was difficult too but I did have guy buddies and sometimes had boyfriends.

So back to the idea of this thread and not having an emotionally intact role model- I think our expectations of ourselves as mothers could be unrealistic, and also we didn't learn that it was OK to take a break from mothering and that this is a form of self care.

Although I didn't feel completely OK with having sitters- it was OK. As long as the kids are safe- it's OK and in ways even better for them to play with a "big kid" for a little bit rather than mommy be overstressed. In addition, we will role model that mothers can have hobbies and interests too- and take time to do them.

[zachira]

I learn so much from reading other members' posts, and realize I too experienced so many of these things. Today's post by Notwendy about being raised by sitters is what I experienced also. My mother with BPD hired people to do everything from ironing to house cleaning to yard work. My mother cooked dinner and drove us places which she complained about and talked about how tired she was from all the work she did. Dad used to wonder why she was so tired when she really did not do much, and he wasn't being cruel; he just did not understand what she did to get so tired. I now realize she was very depressed and anxious all the time, never really slept well. We had many sitters who I was really fond of. I now realize having the sitters was a blessing in disguise as it kept us from having to interact with mom all the time and from more abuse. Plus we got to experience some real kindness and love from these sitters. I think I would not have survived to the age I am now, without having the sitters make such big differences in who I am today. 

[Notwendy]

I agree- someone loved me and cared for me. I have some old home movies of me as a baby with relatives- grandparents, my dad, and the baby nurse. It was common for people to have a baby nurse but in the videos, my mother isn't interacting with me but the baby nurse and other family members are. I have a picture of my father holding me as a baby. I haven't seen any pictures of my mother holding me that I can recall. I don't think it's because she didn't want to but that she was anxious and depressed.

I am glad someone held me and loved me but I wonder if I bonded with the baby nurse and not my mother? Because I have not felt as if I had a mother-child bond with her.

[zachira]

I remember crying every time my favorite sitter left when I was around 4 years old. I knew mom could not give me the care that I needed and I was not safe with her with all the mood swings. My maternal grandmother had no ability to bond with children and was very depressed. My mother grew up on a farm; her parents worked long hours, and she probably did not interact with other adults other than her parents. Maybe we can care and love children because we did experience care and love from other caregivers, though not our mothers with BPD.

[livednlearned]

Maybe we can care and love children because we did experience care and love from other caregivers, though not our mothers with BPD.

I remember a child psychologist telling me children just need one sympathetic witness to offset the risk of being abused.

As kids, we have to know that safety and love is an option, even if we can't always count on it.

[Notwendy]

Maybe we can care and love children because we did experience care and love from other caregivers, though not our mothers with BPD.

Probably so-
There was another aspect to parenting- the teen years. I was parentified by my teens. I don't think I had the regular teen experience, emotionally. I think parenting for me was also an opportunity to do things with my kids that I wish my mother had done- so it seemed I could experience this with them in a way.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Well... To be honest, Notwedy, you are pretty much describing my whole experience with motherhood, to a T. I've been working a lot to find a balance though, which is why I entered Judo. My H really pushed me a lot to take better care of myself, and so I do now. Which is what makes it hard I guess... With H gone, it trigger loneliness. My perfectionist takes hold, and there is no one to help me balance myself out, if that makes sense... But I am getting better at this. I did end up requesting help, so my father came today. We had a good talk. We built the trampoline together, something over what I felt I could regain a bit of control. I jumped on it earlier and man, I don't regret that buy, this is amazing for little Riverwolf, kept laughing.

H ended up being able to come home after all. Texted me mid-morning to let me know he was on his way. It feels good to have him here. I will find a balance. And yeah, I will definitely ask the little boy to play with them. My gym is in my basement, I have a squat rack there and everything I need, so I should be able to get my gym in without leaving the house, and despite the extra travel time from the temporary daycare I found for the summer. My workouts are quite literally the only things keeping me sane through all this stress. I just need this relief. I just have to make it fit in my schedule somehow, without losing too much work time either. It's gonna be tricky.

This is gonna be hard, but I will make it, one day at a time.

[Notwendy]

When I read some of your posts, I thought - this is how many of us feel as mothers- so I made it a post topic. I swayed towards over functioning, and ran into the emotional brick wall myself. We want to be good mothers and also be good to ourselves too. We just don't always know how.

Glad your H came home!

[Riv3rW0lf]

I am happy to report I learned yesterday we had a spot in a child care starting this summer. Somehow I feel both relief AND guilt. Sending my two years old there still feels unfair to me, since his sister stayed home with us... I don't know .. with his father gone, he has been having a very hard time, and I feel very conflicted sending him to day care, but then, my work is piling up, and I need to keep my clients happy if I want to stay in business. Difficult balance but I will find it...

I reached out to a program for military wives who's husband's are away. All the psychologists here are completely booked and the waiting list is crazy, but as it turns out, the military have counselors I can talk to. I don't know if this will help, but it's worth a try... Maybe just to vent... Maybe I can get a direct referral for DD as well to get her tested, privately and not with the school, about her high sensitivity.

Anyway, things are slowly getting into place... Must be because I was able to build the trampoline... Haha