Keeping Up with the Jones / Isolation

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

All,

I've spent a good chuck of time searching past threads on the subject of BPD and "keeping up with the Jones'"

No luck.

Anybody have any experience about the pwBPD dichotomy of keeping the spouse and family isolated and the pressure to keep up with the Jones'

Is this a thing?

I noticed that the internal shame and self-conscious aspect of my uBPDw flares in social situations.

I think it is an extension of "I'm not good enough" "Nothing is good enough." "You don't make enough" "There kids are going to private school"

The classic recently was "Everyone seems to go out of town on a long weekend expect us. If you earned your keep, that could be an option but I doubt that will ever happen. I guess we're just stuck at home."

Then a couple hours later my S is invited to a sleep over and there are +10 kids... I asked myself "So there are +10 family that are fantastic sticking around town this long weekend." I'm good. I'm happy.

When she's at her best and out with neighbors or school parents I've noticed that people don't engage her. They know nothing about her behavior. She is very high functioning, polite, intelligent, charming in a subtle way. I notice that women that she has a light friendship with do not invite her or engage her. I can see how sad it makes her.

I empathy with her (of course, I'm the "caretaker LOL). I actually wish she had more people in her life. When she's out with other she comes home with positive energy. Yet other times, like clock work, others make her feel like nothing is good enough.

It's like she is reminded that the world doesn't work on her chaos terms and there doesn't have to be so much discord.

Then I remind myself that she will not let me invite other couples or friends over (that has changed some in the last year or so); that she doesn't want to engage with the community; that she doesn't reciprocate to the invites we or the kids get.  I bet they are tired of the one way interaction.

She is isolated bouncing around her own false narratives and victim cocoon.

[LifewithEase]

All,

I've spent a good chuck of time searching past threads on the subject of BPD and "keeping up with the Jones'"

No luck.

Anybody have any experience about the pwBPD dichotomy of keeping the spouse and family isolated and the pressure to keep up with the Jones'

Is this a thing?

I noticed that the internal shame and self-conscious aspect of my uBPDw flares in social situations.

I think it is an extension of "I'm not good enough" "Nothing is good enough." "You don't make enough" "There kids are going to private school"

The classic recently was "Everyone seems to go out of town on a long weekend expect us. If you earned your keep, that could be an option but I doubt that will ever happen. I guess we're just stuck at home."

Then a couple hours later my S is invited to a sleep over and there are +10 kids... I asked myself "So there are +10 family that are fantastic sticking around town this long weekend." I'm good. I'm happy.

When she's at her best and out with neighbors or school parents I've noticed that people don't engage her. They know nothing about her behavior. She is very high functioning, polite, intelligent, charming in a subtle way. I notice that women that she has a light friendship with do not invite her or engage her. I can see how sad it makes her.

I empathy with her (of course, I'm the "caretaker LOL). I actually wish she had more people in her life. When she's out with other she comes home with positive energy. Yet other times, like clock work, others make her feel like nothing is good enough.

It's like she is reminded that the world doesn't work on her chaos terms and there doesn't have to be so much discord.

Then I remind myself that she will not let me invite other couples or friends over (that has changed some in the last year or so); that she doesn't want to engage with the community; that she doesn't reciprocate to the invites we or the kids get.  I bet they are tired of the one way interaction.

She is isolated bouncing around her own false narratives and victim cocoon.

[livednlearned]

Keeping up with the Joneses has a whiff of narcissism to it.

That she seems to feel less than versus abandoned makes me wonder if your wife had a neglecting parent, or one who had narcissistic tendencies (or both). Meaning, still suffering from BPD but having a pronounced streak of narcissism (my ex was this way). He had a very narcissistic mother, perhaps BPD herself. 

Unfinished situations from the past press to be finished in the present, and what seems most promising to satisfy unmet meets will stand out the most.

Is she in contact with her family?

[LifewithEase]

LivednLearned,

You're perceptive.

Low empathy and understanding of others' needs "looks like" it is all about her. Fear and loathing "looks like" it is all about her. Anxiety driven decision making "looks like" it is about her. She actually is not narcissistic but has that classic narcissistic under layer that is part of borderline.

Spot on about neglected parents. This is foundational to her family experience, along with some classically defined mental health issues.

She was estranged with her late Father (Sidenote: I realized that she got worse when he passed away a few years ago, shifting her constant contempt and anger from him to me). Her mother and brother are so flatline, even, disengaged it is extremely odd.

The keeping up with the Jones also has other dynamics to it:

a. her siblings have had life paths that have been without any turbulence (cancer, layoffs, accidents, you know it is called life), yet. as a result, there has been a financial benefit she doesn't have. high envy.

b. her previous husband is a very straight milk toast guy and has kept the same white collar executive insurance job for decades, remarried but with no kids. She see his stability (that she gave up) as some sort of golden rule.

c. her profession is highly sophisticated and deals with high net worth individuals. for decades she had dealt with old school money, new school money and uses this a wedge against me

But in the end, simply put, it is about her believing nothing is ever good enough. She isn't material (shoes, fancy clothes, etc.) but she doesn't know how to find gratitude and peace in relationships, emotions.

[Smedley Butler]

But in the end, simply put, it is about her believing nothing is ever good enough. She isn't material (shoes, fancy clothes, etc.) but she doesn't know how to find gratitude and peace in relationships, emotions

interesting thread, because I have experienced a similar dynamic with my wife.  like yours, she isnt material.  she mostly wears clothes from Target to be honest, even though i make a good living and she could dress much nicer if she wanted to.  i dont care either way - she is fit and always looks nice regardless.  but i still very much get a "keep up with the joneses" vibe from her, but not in a narcissistic way.  it's more of a quiet desperation and an assumption that she isnt good enough to be around certain groups.  we live in a fairly affluent neighborhood and i am a mid / high ranking officer in the Marines.  she is very uncomfortable in social situations either in our neighborhood or around other officers' wives.  however, she is also obsessed with preventing anyone from ever thinking anything negatively about our family or kids.  it's like she wants everyone to think we are part of the "in" group without actually being "in the group".  the unfortunate by-product of all of this is that a lot of people that dont know her that well jsut think she's a snob, which she isnt at all.  the reality is that she is a frightened kitten.   

i think it all comes from a place of extreme insecurity combined with "hermit"-like traits as described in the borderline mothers book.  it's quite sad, honestly.  i used to really empathize with her and try to encourage her, but after years of it, i really dont care anymore.

[Notwendy]

i think it all comes from a place of extreme insecurity combined with "hermit"-like traits as described in the borderline mothers book. 

I think for my mother - the looking good- "keeping up appearances" was an expectation. In her era, the goal for young women was to find a husband so it would be an important thing to do. I also think that having a husband buy you nice things is a visible affirmation to others for her. She likes to have people publicly affirm her.

But with BPD no matter what the era- if someone has an unstable sense of self, then how other people perceive them comes into more importance. If one is more concerned about how others perceive them, then "keeping up with the Jones' " becomes more of a priority.