Co-dependent w/BPD wife

[goodjus]

Hi all,

This is my first post. I was looking for a group zoom or something to be able to talk about my experiences and learn tools and came across this and it seems like a great start.

For background, my life in terms of romantic relationship has been very difficult and filled with rejection. So I already had a tendency as I got older to really try and bend to be whatever someone wanted just so I could be loved and desired and accepted by women. This is not true of my platonic relationships with men.

I met my current wife through dating apps and the in beginning it was very intense, and we were both in a bit of our anxious attachment energies and for me this was great. Then I started to see the signs. A couple weeks into our relationship I went to Ireland with some of my friends, and it was the calls every night, threatening to break up, threatening to hurt herself, talking about women I was with on the trip (one friend who was meeting her then b/f, now husband, and the other friend who was there with my other buddy, who they are now married as well). This went on and on, every time I was on a work trip or other trip she would break up with me on the get back with me and have sex with me. Other breakups and blocking me only to get back together and for us to go on a trip to see her family in another state for 2 weeks. Eventually she told me she was diagnosed BPD. I didnt know what that meant. And to be fair and honest, I was a bit naive, I thought I could just love her so much that it wouldn't matter. That was dumb and my fault. As our relationship went on, I started to shrink myself more and more. Seeing friends less, not telling my wife about things she was doing that would bother me or other issues, or even hiding things that may cause a reaction to her instead of sharing (codependent traits that the BPD totally amplified).

Despite all this, we got married despite me feeling like something was wrong. And to be honest things were good for a while. But then she found out that I would masturbate to porn sometimes. This totally exploded everything. To her this was cheating, despite what many therapists have told me to the contrary since. I say many therapists because shes made me change therapists multiple times because I wasnt "recovering" despite not watching porn video for 2 years which is impossible for "addicts". She then labelled me a sex addict (which therapists have also refuted since). And I just did everything that was involved with that program to start which included going to sex addiction meetings every day, other workshops, phone monitoring software. Skipping important work trips. All in the name of keeping her "safe". It was all so over the top but I thought if I could just prove to her that everything is OK and I'm not doing anything wrong we could come out of this. Instead, the very extreme section of the SA recovery community are the ones my wife gravitated towards, and I think they fed into her BPD tendencies and the feelings associated with betrayed partners and BPD are pretty similar. Its been 2 years of this and control only tightens and now she has this thing she can hold onto the Im the "bad guy" and she can emotionally abuse me and any time I push back I get called an addict, an abuser, a cheater, piece of PLEASE READ etc. And because I did do something tangibly that hurt her, and theres always a kernel of truth in how BPDs present info it makes me think twice. But theres been physical altercations, her blaming me when she backed into the garage and broke the window on our car, threatening to unalive herself and saying she would do it to cause me pain.

The constant problem is, when things are good they are very good. And I have no desire to rock that boat. Tell her anything bad going on, tell her anything she's doing thats affecting me, see my friends if that might trigger her, I wont do anything to disrupt this fleeting happiness beacuse that feeling of being wanted and desired by my wife is the most valuable asset in the world to me(and i know thats not healthy I am just trying to be honest and fair in my assessment). And with things like my friends, its not like she says " I dont want you to see your friends". Its her acting all depressed that Im leaving her, lays in bed all weekend, woe is me, "my ex husband took all my friends and I dont have that" All very manipulative even if some parts are true and theres real pain for her there.  So I hold and hold and hold, and the resentment builds. Then when things are bad and she brings something up, I think I am trying to validate her feelings, but then when I bring that things up that are bothering me, that invalidates her, or so she says. So I think me coming here I am at the radical acceptance point. I think for a long time I thought I could just make sense and be logical and care for her and love her and overcome anything else, and that is obviously folly and from what I have read, the downfall of many a loved one/partner of a BPD individual.

I need to understand tools I can use to validate her without taking the blame for everything that is not on me. Because what happens is I either take all of the blame, even if thats not on me and just shrink, disassociate and disconnect, or I really push back which invalidate her feelings. My therapist used the analogy of dodging the incoming missiles while still moving closer and that made sense to me. If I am to continue in this relationship, which I do want to because I do love my wife, I need to understand some tools to help me do that. Validate without taking ownership, and living with the results.

For an example, as you have read she has monitoring software on my phones to make sure I don't watch anything she doesn't want me to watch or do(to be clear I dont agree with this and eventually when we do couples counseling I will petition to have this removed, which therapists I have talked to have agreed is the right step). Earlier in our relationship I had an app on my phone that talked about sex positions, nothing explicit or with real people who are naked or anything. It was like animated figures with no features. As you have read, I had literally 0 experience and was trying to learn on the fly. Information that I shared with my wife and we would speak about early in our relationship. In any event, my phone wasn't locked and I laid on it or something and the app clicked and opened. It immediately got blocked, which will send an email notification to my wife that I clicked on a "bad" app or website etc.  In my past, my codependent behavior would have been to wait and see if she saw it and wait for her to come to me. But as I have been working on the coda stuff in therapy I decided I was going to get ahead of it and I went directly to her and told her about what happened. This immediately descended into an argument about why do I still have a "porn app" on my phone. It wasnt, and I explained that when I told her. But even in that moment, I dont think I was validating enough even if her rage and response "telling me to PLEASE READ off" and "I dont want or need anything from you" were crazy and hurtful and upsetting, I need to find a way to dodge the missiles and move closer, or at least try.

I read my messages to my therapist, and he told me that if I was dealing with a nonBPD individual that my responses were well thought out, succinct, and made your needs known in a non-threatening way. However, in dealing with a BPD individual they will not be received that way, you have to lead them emotionally. So, any pointers on how to lead emotionally, validate but not accept the fears they are putting on you, and how to deal with the push back of saying I am not validating them because I am not taking 100% of the blame for a thing that is not my fault? Thanks again and Im glad to be joining the community.

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[waverider]

Welcome goodjus, first off I would like to say you ate not unique in the way you have allowed yourself to slip into this slow boil situation you are struggling to resurface from. Your story is a practical rinse repeat of what many of us have gone through.

Being seduced and cajouled into the role of co-dependent and enabler is extremely common. By the time we realize that we don't just have an immediate mountain to climb but rather a never ending mountain range before us it is often too late.

We can't remove that mountain range for you but we can help you navigate paths through the valleys rather than draining yourself trying to climb over each peak.

The first thing to realise is that each drama you face is only a symptom and not the real issue. The real issue is a flawed thought process, and you are not going to be able to change that. This thought process is not an on/off switch, it is constant, even in the good times. What you see is the reactions to whether they are feeling validated or not, whether their immediate needs are being met, or not. It is unrealistic to always meet their needs, and by trying you end up where you are, on eggshells, anxious, employing avoidance and cover ups. Feeling like you are selling yourself out, and it still doesn't work.

[goodjus]

Thanks waverider.

Any pointers in moving closer and validating without taking blame?

[waverider]

Thanks waverider.

Any pointers in moving closer and validating without taking blame?

First thing to realize is that pwBPD are validation junkies, their need for it is bottomless. The more your pour onto them the greater their expectation is to receive it, a bit like a child who expects to get paid for every chore they do. They grow up refusing to lift a finger without payment. You can make a rod for your own back. So I take a different approach and a slightly more rewarding one. I think about how I can better me, in general, not for my pwBPD, so I learn all about validation, and more importantly not invalidating someone.

I make this an improvement in my life skills that I apply to everyone, equally, rather than to pander to my wife. It also feels less of a burden as it is a life skill that enriches me. NOT INVALIDATING is the big one. That creates triggers that you are responsible for, pwBPD can come up with enough triggers on their own (as that is part of their need) without you throwing them some freebies.

As far as not taking the blame, well you kind of just have to accept they are going to pass the buck, they can't own it so someone else has to. Its up to you whether you accept it in your mind, or just accept it as a bunch of words thrown around like so much verbal vomit. Much the same as a child has tantrums and hates their parents and is going to run away etc..I know the endless accusations and claims take a mental toll, but you wont be able to avoid that, it's part of the package. The frustration of trying to argue about blame, or stopping it, and failing, is even worse

BPD is that mountain range, it is tough going and there is virtually nothing you can do to turn it into grassy glades and fields of flowers. Some parts are just going to be plain hard mentally. Don't allow trying to iron everything out take over your whole life, there is no magical words, article, book, therapy session, or holy grail that will make it all go away. It's the good oil that can help a broken cog function, but it wont fix the broken cog, its still going to be a PITA at times. Leave plenty of space to fill up your life with things for you, even if it brings Borderline wrath down upon your head at times. If you have no "you" life, you will have no life worth living. You cannot let your life fritter away in a futile attempt to make Borderline into non Borderline. Many have obsessively studied/battled with trying to "fix" this and make things all fairy tale again, just to reach a point where resentment hits hard as they realize they have just flushed 10 years or more of their life down the toilet to be in a no different a place to where they where at the start.

If you are going to persevere with this at least do it in parallel with having a life, not instead of.

Not always trying to fix them will ultimately bring you closer. Believe it or not "trying to fix" them is ultimately invalidating for them as it implies there is something "wrong" with them, and that is not acceptable. Even though they are constantly pressurising you to do exactly just that. Herein lies the Catch 22..

[goodjus]

Wow, I appreciate the very thoughtful and thorough response.

So I guess in terms of tactics, how can I at least not be invalidating? But not validate the invalid. I get that its a delicate dance but I am open to strategies and ways to better and at least take my ownership for the points that I am doing that make it worse.

[kells76]

Hey goodjus, I want to join with waverider in saying Hello and hearing your story.

waverider gave good feedback about how stopping being invalidating can almost be more important than being validating.

Not sure if you've seen it yet -- we have a Tools and skills workshops section that has a thread called Validation Skill - Stop Invalidating Others.

Take a look there and let us know what you think -- hope that is what you're looking for!

kells76

[goodjus]

Thanks for the link! I actually checked out that info yesterday.

I think maybe I am obtuse. But I don't understand the difference between not being invalidating v being validating. It sounds like the same thing to me.  

In the times of high conflict the only way I can not be invalidating but also not overly validating is by not speaking at all  . Or thats how I feel in those moments. And that obviously creates a whole set of different issues.

For example, when her feeling is telling me how I feel, ie "I dont care about her" "You're only losing weight to look more attractive to other women." I dont know what to. Telling her I dont feel that way apparently is invalidating, but telling her I do feel that way is also false and invalidating the invalid. I can tell her I see how she could feel that way? But I honestly dont, and even trying to put myself in her place I wouldn't feel that way. Then saying that to her I'm sure sounds hollow. So what now?  

This is my problem that I am having. Especially if I truly cant see how she would see something from her perspective. This is not all the time, or even most of the time, I am using the most extreme examples. But, the most extreme examples happen alot.  

[waverider]

You wont always be able to avoid it, but yes you are on the right path by saying not engaging or responding at times. The biggest issue when discussing things with pwBPD is we get drawn into escalations trying to resolve issues. Sometimes it could be a simple matter of cutting the words and giving them a hug instead. Not every comment needs a verbal response. The drama is not always about what the words are describing, its about the feelings boiling inside

Not validating the invalid is a big one, especially when they effectively try to bully you into doing so. That is about staying authentic to yourself and not simply relying on appeasement to keep the peace. This is where start getting feelings of selling yourself out.

The times when you can avoid unnecessary invalidation is when you speak without thinking first, often out of frustration, often using sarcasm or being narky. We all do it, often without realizing as most people just let it go, but it is the sort of thing that people still don't really appreciate, BPD or not. This takes a personality adjustment on our part and takes time and practice with our dealings with everyone.

The difference is a pwBPD will literally lock onto it and the tit for tatt starts and we become defensive not really realizing that we actually started it. Call it diplomatic skills if you like. These are good life skills we are just under the watch of the harshest of critics who will not let shortfalls slide.

Even if you are profuse with your validation it comes to the point were it feels disingenuous to you as you are saying it for effect, it will become obvious to them and flip into invalidation. It is a fine line. So if you don't feel it, don't say it.

You will not always agree, and you wont agree to disagree either, you just have to walk away from it. Drama probably will happen as a consequence, but it would most likely have happened anyway, so minimize your role in it.

Always helps to have a back up list of things to do, places to go when things are starting to feel off. Better then leaving it too late and leaving when things are hectic and you are all wound up, and end up walking the park, or sitting in the car in the rain, muttering to yourself like a mad person, with nothing constructive to do. That builds massive resentment

[waverider]

One of the biggest red flags for the start of invalidation is when you get that "here we go again" feeling. The next action or words we use run a high risk of being invalidating. eg a sigh, eye roll, or condescending/sarcastic comment or explanation like we are talking to child. It almost happens involuntary. This will create an instant reaction, to which we go into automatic victim mode saying something like "What? I didn't do anything of the sort, I'm just trying to explain XYZ". From there it then just kicks off about the way you just reacted. With better people handling skills you could have avoided this.

To continuously have to do this takes a personality change from you so that it is automatic without effort, trying to do it as deliberate tool, all day, everyday going forward is too draining to maintain.

It is tricky dealing with BPD no doubt about it, and we will all fail on regular basis no matter what we learn, so just accept that and don't beat yourself up about it, admit your mistakes, to yourself at least, and move onwards. Avoid defensiveness and denial, or you wont learn.

Another tip is to bear in mind that although a pwBPD may trigger quickly, they equally shut it down as suddenly. We on the other hand take time to come down from an "incident" as we take time to process the emotions, pwBPD don't process these emotions they just shelve them. It is better to find somewhere else to be while we are doing this, otherwise we will be accused of sulking/bearing a grudge/being childish and need to "build a bridge" and get over it.This is likely to trigger you even more as they are massively invalidating you. They don't get irony of this lack of empathy, after they just accused you of not being empathetic.

The evidence of this lack of processing these emotions is that sometime down the track when we have forgotten about the "incident" they will pull it off the shelf and pile it on top of some other issue as further additional evidence of your wrong doing, with all the intense emotions it was shelved with in the first place. The action of doing that will be another massive trigger to you, (loop back to first paragraph, as you respond with a sigh thinking here we go again).

Get the feeling you are stuck in endless loops going nowhere? Thats the point its not about fixing issues its about suppling needs to the endless process that can't be sated, its your engagement they require. Otherwise known as shovelling everything you have into the black hole until you are left with nothing to give, and the black hole is still empty wanting more. Don't give away what you can't afford to loose, its not an investment, there is no profitable return despite what the BPD marketing department may claim. The promised oasis is no more than a mirage.