BPD mother faking memory loss?

[Notwendy]

BPD mother has been calling me up and saying she's having trouble remembering things. There's an odd, fake, quality to this. She's acted that way with some family members but not others.

She asked me to describe her house to her (the one that sold) but it sounded to me like she was pretending because she was quite sharp about other things. Something about this didn't seem real. She is very manipulative and lies a lot.

It was around the time that my father passed away that I decided there needed to be boundaries with her. It's not one thing that happened but the events at the time and the level of her abuse. It's not that the boundaries are about her. It's that I knew I needed to do this work- to not enable. To her though, my purpose as far as she's concerned is to be of use to her and she's noticed the boundaries.  

She's tried to have "a talk" and "clear the air" which I know is something not to do with her.  She's said "let's just start over" as if one can begin a relationship as if we just met? Unfortunately, she's lied so much, that I don't know what's true or not. There also isn't anything to really discuss. I know better than to bring up events or things she did- that leads to her dysregulating. It's not only that. It's that one can't have a close relationship when someone has lied so much that it's not possible to trust them. It's not just with me, she's lied to others and has been verbally and emotionally abusive with them too.

I also see where she's in a difficult situation and I am sorry for the situation she's got herself in, but I have to have boundaries with her. Many people have tried to help her but the efforts aren't satisfactory for her. When she doesn't have any use for me, she discards me but she's now painting me "white" and it's so disingenuous, I cringe when she is complimenting me.

With painting me white not working, she's now saying she's having "memory problems". The medical staff has recommended she get evaluated for this but her response to this recommendation is odd- she seems dismissive of it. Perhaps it's because she's pretending? One thing that tipped me off about it is that she is saying things like "I don't remember much but I think we aren't as close lately..." which is a lead in to the "talk" (not going there) and now, with her "not remembering" - there's complete dismissal of any of her behaviors. Because I think she knows what they are. For me though, I don't want to discuss her behaviors . There's no point to that. It's that she is still lying, still manipulating in other ways, and one can't have a close relationship with anyone who does this.

I know it is possible to have memory issues at her age, so I think the recommendation for her to be evaluated is a good thing, but this also seems like she's pretending.

[Mommydoc]

NotWendy, you are absolutely right. It is the same advice you gave me on my string. There is no good that will come of this “Clear the air” conversation because your mother/ my sister are both incapable of self awareness or hearing us, or understanding, acknowledging their own behaviors and the impact on others. It will simply set things off. It is better to avoid that conversation and keep things light.

with her "not remembering" - there's complete dismissal of any of her behaviors. Because I think she knows what they are. For me though, I don't want to discuss her behaviors . There's no point to that. It's that she is still lying, still manipulating in other ways, and one can't have a close relationship with anyone who does this.

I agree getting evaluated is a good idea. I am not sure it matters if she remembers things or not, whether she has dementia or another condition or not. What you do know, and remains a constant is your mother is a very manipulative person, who will say what she needs to, in situations to gain control. Being honest and truthful is not a value she shares with you. It’s just not in her DNA. I used to get really stuck on my sisters misrepresentations of what I considered facts, or even her interpretations of situations. She had very minor head injury 15 years ago, normal CT, no hospitalization or anything, but she has milked that and claims memory issues when it is convenient to do so. I have begun to believe that she completely dissociates in certain circumstances and then tries to reconstruct events with bits and pieces. So perhaps, in my mind, she doesn’t really remember things. When I acknowledge a memory issue, it no longer matters “Why” or if she does/doesn’t remember. How she manages situations is more about her BPD, her manipulative behavior and inability to manage her own emotions. I am OK with my sister claiming a traumatic brain injury even if it likely isn’t the root cause of her behavior.  I can even acknowledge the possibility that she has an  organic contributing factor to her behavior. If your mom is evaluated and is found to have some early cognitive impairment it may be an excuse she will fall back on ( she may also completely avoid and reject it). For you, it might be helpful as well, just as additional context as to the factors that contribute. But  in the end, the diagnosis won’t really change things much. My therapist shared with me, that it is very common for personality disorders to co-exist with other disorders that impact memory/behavior, and when they do, the BPD can amplify the other symptoms.  The PD is still there, and how we deal with it is the same.

[GaGrl]

Your mother's behavior since your father died is so similar to my step-grandmother's actions after my grandad died. She had been horrible since my mother was six years old, but she never adopted Mom and so had no legal ties. As her health deteriorated, she expected my mom to step into situations that Mom had no intention of getting involved in. Doctors called my mother and scolded her, asking "What do you intend to do about your Mother?" They were dumbfounded to learn it was a step-parent situation and that my Mon had no legal standing to make any decisions nor handle finances.

I am forever grateful that my father backed up my mom's decision to maintain distance.

[Notwendy]

Thank you all - I think you all "get" it. She's had a couple of episodes of "confusion" and been evaluated but so far, no cause has been found. We have suspected external medicines that the staff didn't know about, or even a reaction to her own medication but we haven't found any firm connection. She has the kind of "forgetfulness" that I have seen in older adults, but this "amnesia" is different - and she's different with different people and has a fake quality to it. I am now wondering if any of these times were actually real or a form of manipulation.

But Mommydoc, you are correct, that even with changed thinking due to age - she still has BPD and she still can be manipulative. No, I am not going to have any kind of "talk" with her. That doesn't turn out well!

[Methuen]

She asked me to describe her house to her (the one that sold) but it sounded to me like she was pretending because she was quite sharp about other things.

This feels off for sure.  Reading it made me squirm.  

Her:  "Describe my house to me."
You: "Which parts do you remember best?"
Her: I don't remember it.
You: "What's a special memory you have?"
Her: "I want you to describe my house.  I can't remember it."
You: "Would you like to look at some pictures of your house together?."

I would not describe the house for her.  This feels like a game that's somehow about control (her ordering you to talk about her house).  It just feels contrived  or "off", that she's asking you to describe something she "lost".  Perhaps she needs "time to process" and "grieve" this loss?  Commanding you to talk about it probably the only way she knows how to communicate - as a command.  But looking at pictures is a bit more of an activity that might get her to participate and converse rather than just order you to do the talking.  It's also possible that looking at pictures could trigger feelings of loss for her.  But those pictures could also bring feelings of comfort.  It's hard to know which until you try.  Does she have photo albums she can look at when you are not there?

Could this possibly be attention seeking behavior?  

Is she asking her relatives who intervened this same question?  Does she still see them?

It's hard to believe that she's suddenly forgotten everything about the house so suddenly.  

On the other hand, a move to an unfamiliar place and away from everything she knows could amplify dementia symptoms if they are already there.  

Our mom's lie so much.  It's pretty easy to question if she could be faking the dementia.  Is it possible she sees some way that faking memory loss could benefit her?  Do you have any theories what she could be angling towards IF she is faking it?

Kinda wierd feeling that she's painting you white.  I'm guessing it's because you are giving her attention with visits or calls.  Does this fit?  

Regardless, getting the assessment is a really good thing.  
  

She's tried to have "a talk" and "clear the air" which I know is something not to do with her.  She's said "let's just start over"

Ick.  My mother has used these same expressions.  Like you, I know to stay away from this.  I use distraction, or flattery, or humour but mostly distraction since my mother has ADHD.  It's very easy to distract her, especially with the cognitive changes. I completely agree that it would be counterproductive and probably end badly to engage in "the talk".  My mom loves ice cream cones.  I tend to bring her one of those or a puzzle if I have to visit her alone.  If your mom is able to dodge all these (and other) strategies and stay focussed on getting you to describe her house, then that part of her brain is still functioning quite well.

Is it (remembering or not remembering her house) making her agitated, or weepy?

[PearlsBefore]

I remember some of your previous comments about your mother's aging process, though (ironically) not well - it certainly sounded like a difficult position - and my (hazy) recollection is that she sounded like someone who used her symptoms to gain sympathy and manipulate, so with that bias already in my mind I agree reading your short summary my first impression is that it sounds like some half-baked idea on which she's working. But obviously what I see is through multiple filters, and be careful not to always assume the worst.

FYI anyone likely to test your mother's memory is probably going to use a TOMM - which is to test for people who fake memory problems, where it sounds like that's your issue. There are also home "dementia tests" that are basically the same thing - it's actually surprising to me that nobody's yet started developing a free public-domain resource of basic home tests for such things (it's not as though people who are going to lie, aren't going to lie anyways - whether similar alternate materials are easily available online or not).

[Notwendy]

That's interesting- I didn't know there was a test for faking memory problems. I looked up the TOMM test to learn more about it.

Yes, it's complicated. We can't assume anything and so - she does get seen for any medical problems and her emotional issues are an influence with them as well. So there could be some memory difficulties at her age- due to some normal aging. What she seems to be claiming is a sort of selective amnesia and then she will try to micromanage situations in detail- which doesn't fit.

I agree with not assuming the worst of her motives, but I know her well enough to know that manipulation is something she frequently does. I don't think that the manipulation is due to a bad intention- I don't think she's trying to be hurtful to anyone else. I think it's a coping mechanism for her. When people feel out of control, they try to control all they can. When she's manipulating people, she's controlling the situation. This has a negative effect on her relationships with them, but she's not thinking of this at the moment. She's managing her own anxiety when she does this.

On my part, and her family, it's difficult to discern. We do care about her welfare, but don't want to be manipulated and it's difficult to know what is what. Unless we have some boundaries, we'd be involved in chaos, and it's been chaos since she moved to assisted living. While assisted living has solved some problems for her, it's also a situation where she has less control of some aspects and this has been difficult for her.  I think we have empathy for her situation. She doesn't have empathy for others. So it's on us to decide our boundaries- a challenge when we know it's difficult for her, because whatever we do for her, we can't change her feelings or how she processes things.

[GaGrl]

I saw distinct differences in mental deterioration in my mom's last six months of hospitalization to hospice care. It would have been difficult for her to fake it.

There was short-term memory loss (pretty typical), confusion (often attributable to drugs she was taking in hospital), then as hospice progressed -- dementia and hallucinations only at night.

[TelHill]

Notwendy,

It's possible she may be telling a half-truth. She may have had a short lapse of memory which rattled her.  I could be wrong but I think you had to sell her house to prevent her losing it from overspending and to fund her elder care. She may hold a grudge and found a way to get attention, inflict guilt, and show how upset she is at getting older. Very efficient bpd behavior.

My mother had an episode of faking a few years ago.  I didn't realize it then but slowly did as we went to a neurologist who ordered a CT scan and then an MRI to be on the safe side.  She was normal with mild age related cognition issues.  I have seen genuine memory lapses lately though.  She panics and wants to know where her father is.  It's sad. Yet, like you said, you have to have boundaries to not be swallowed up by this.

[Notwendy]

I think you are correct. She's had mild lapses of memory.  She did have a head CT scan which showed the expected changes one would see in someone her age and nothing more. I agree that she is anxious and also resentful of the move, even if it was for her benefit. She was relieved to get the house payment but still blames family for the move- but this is expected with BPD.

She is angry that I don't move her closer to me. This is all understandable but she's also verbally and emotionally abusive with people in her circle.  She's already changed home health providers several times  due to her being dissatisfied or them quitting due to her behavior.  I know many of the elder care facilities near me as we have visited residents (parents of friends, neighbors) and don't want to subject them to this either. She's been dissatisfied with what is considered very good care in her area and the quality of care is not any different anywhere else.  She's caused issues with her family who live near her.

She creates difficulty with anyone who attempts to help her but doesn't seem motivated to or able to connect her situation with her behavior. I think she may have some awareness of this though- and this may be why the idea of not remembering it may be a factor in her behavior- even if there is some forgetfulness related to her age.

[Teabunny]

Hi Notwendy,
I've been struggling with a similar memory loss / faking & manipulating situation here for years, so I can relate to how frustrating it is. It's almost impossible to tell medical vs mental issues, and like many here have said, it's typically both at once, sadly.

Although with me, it's my employer/landlady. She withholds my paychecks (says she "forgot" to mail my check repeatedly) until I agree to spend (unpaid) hours "visiting" with her so she can order me to help with "projects" like looking through her paperback books to downsize some of them, and insisting I select some so she can give them to me, but when I pick 1 or 2 she changes her mind and keeps the entire collection. (I knew that was coming actually; I had already purchased inexpensive copies of those books for myself.)

So it's a difficult dance of offering assistance but protecting ourselves. I hope that the memory test will help shed light on your situation! I wish there was a harmless scanning device we could use on such people, to instantly know if they're manipulating us or honestly in need of help. Just press a button! Haha

[zachira]

Extreme stress affects memory. Moving from her home to assisted living is surely stressful for your mother who is used to being in complete control and now has to follow the protocols of the assisted living facility even though she tries to be in charge when she isn't. You are doing a great job of figuring out what to pay attention to and what to ignore. Perhaps it would make sense to ask her caretakers at the assisted living facility if they are aware of any memory issues with your mother and if they think she should be evaluated for memory loss.