The art of war…

[ShaggyMack]

Well this is intimidating.  I have a great deal of fear that she will go through my phone and somehow find this post. That the rage and hatred (pain and humiliation) will be so great that she will take it out on me directly and thus indirectly affect our kids. I see the toll it is having and I worry that both of our behaviours (her BPD and my continued lack of effecting coping skills) will continue to hurt them and potentially cause mental health issues for them as they become adults themselves.

When I downloaded “stop walking on egg shells” and began listening to it on my long commute each day, I thought “I don’t need the “splitting” book as I would never leave my partner, I still feel I can work with the BPD (and possibly the NPD traits that I recognize in myself as well?). It’s truly amazing what you notice when the doors of perception are opened up for you in such an important aspect of your life such as being a partner of someone with BPD, and a father to two very amazing kids that somehow are still resilient and capable (in big part because of their mother - with BPD). They are so lucky to have her in so many ways and the slings and arrows while unacceptable, have not pierced their hearts.  My own heart is battered and torn, but the love I have for each of them is stronger than my heart I guess. I want this to work but there is so much that I am missing from my relationship(s).  I am here for me so that I can continue to be there for them. Unless of course you found this and are reading it, and then hello.  Armours on, prepare for war.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[GlennT]

Later, 30, 40, 50, years up and down the rocky roller coaster, with your armor on, you will wonder what you wasted your life for trying to fix what is unfixable, fighting what is a losing battle, while looking at your deeply scarred adult children's relationships with BPD's or..

[ShaggyMack]

Thanks Glenn,

I do appreciate the perspective on the reality that awaits and the worldview that it is likely never going to get better or healed with my BPD partner.  I take my vows seriously however and am sure that the day of my eventual death will be one that finds me broken in parts of myself as I feel nobody is ever truly healed.  I don’t want to diminish the pain that you have experienced and I know my fair share of pain as expressed in my OP. I just feel that the tools to deal with BPD are going to be effective for me personally to set appropriate boundaries and to help my children heal no matter what my partner does or does not do.  I am an optimist by nature, but I will work hard as well.

Having this group as a resource is going to be helpful (already feels that way with only one response). I look forward to straight shooters like yourself and also those here that can help me feel loved again, even if only in friendship.

Thanks everyone!

[Pook075]

Thanks Glenn,

I do appreciate the perspective on the reality that awaits and the worldview that it is likely never going to get better or healed with my BPD partner.  I take my vows seriously however and am sure that the day of my eventual death will be one that finds me broken in parts of myself as I feel nobody is ever truly healed.  I don’t want to diminish the pain that you have experienced and I know my fair share of pain as expressed in my OP. I just feel that the tools to deal with BPD are going to be effective for me personally to set appropriate boundaries and to help my children heal no matter what my partner does or does not do.  I am an optimist by nature, but I will work hard as well.

Having this group as a resource is going to be helpful (already feels that way with only one response). I look forward to straight shooters like yourself and also those here that can help me feel loved again, even if only in friendship.

Thanks everyone!

Hey Shaggy, thanks for posting.

I don't want to come off as discouraging, but each and every one of us felt like we were different, that we would be able to break through the BPD barriers and restore a loving, intimate relationship.  The odds are strongly against that though and there are only a handful of true "success stories" here where there was happily ever after.

Now, I'm not saying that will be the case with you, and I'm not saying that there's no hope.  I only brought up that point to illustrate that in order for your marriage to succeed, a part of the recovery process happens within you internally.  There will be moments filled with rage, jealousy, gaslighting, blame, hatred, etc...that's the BPD on bad days and it's unavoidable.  However, how you react to those bad moments will determine how much your spouse can heal and accept you moving forward.  It's not fair by any means, but you absolutely hold the key to all of this working or failing.

Most of us chose to give up, to end the cycles of abuse, because we felt that's what was best for our lives.  That doesn't mean that was the only path available though. 

Like you, I took my vows seriously and stood firm on "until death do us part."  Why honor those vows though?  For me, it was my faith in God and the path He led me on in life.  I was broken, depressed, and miserable in my marriage and I turned my faith inward to figure out what God was calling me to do, and I realized the hard way that we are not meant to suffer at the hands of our spouses. 

Each and every one of us is called to walk a life that glorifies our creator, and it is impossible to do that when there's pain and destruction at every turn.  I was "awakened" as my marriage fell apart by submitting tp God and I realized that the only way my marriage would work was my wife's submission as well- to me and to God (because that's what a Biblical marriage is).  Only, she was on a different path, full of anger, lust, and hatred, so God removed her from my life and kept her from returning.  I fought so hard and endured so much pain...all for my will and the belief that "until death do us part" meant that it was okay for me to be ridiculed and abused.

You're not there yet, and I really hope that you're able to turn everything around.  I am definitely rooting for you.  But at the same time, your feelings and emotions always come first, which is why the Eggshells book talks about establishing healthy boundaries.  Because think about it this way- if you're not the best version of you, then how can you possibly help someone else that's clearly not the best version of themselves?

I wish you luck, my friend, and I genuinely hope that your story has a happy ending.  Just remember that the happy ending you so desperately want is not necessarily where you'll end up.  Be true to yourself and figure out what matters in your life, where you're being led.  The rest will work out exactly as it's supposed to.

[Notwendy]

a father to two very amazing kids that somehow are still resilient and capable (in big part because of their mother - with BPD). They are so lucky to have her in so many ways and the slings and arrows while unacceptable, have not pierced their hearts.

I'm an adult daughter of BPD mother and we I bristle when people say " it can't have been that bad, look at how you kids turned out" because, they have no idea of the dynamics in our family.

I am not posting because I am bitter about my childhood. I post because, it's a message to not assume things are OK just because your kids seem to be managing. Kids might look "good" on the outside, but that doesn't mean having a mother with BPD is a positive or supportive situation for kids.

Considering how much of a challenge these relationships are for adult partners, how can one expect a kid to do better than an adult does with them?

[ShaggyMack]

Hello Notwendy,

While I get that there is a lot of damage associated with BPD and its effects on the people that have to adapt and overcome its effects on us, people are just people.  Labels are great for understanding but if you asked my kids (11 and 13) whether a life away from their mother would be better than the life they have with her, they would choose their mother to be in their lives each and every time.  Do parents cause pain in their children?  Of course we do.  Having one parent that can realize (perhaps later is better than never?) what is going on and explain to them how their BPD mothers behavior is not there fault and help navigate how to be as healthy as possible with the situation that has been dealt is far more admirable than a life spent blaming the BPD person for the damage they have caused.  It's not a choice after all.  It is a less than healthy worldview that is unlikely to change.  I feel that a broken home is far worse for them than a difficult parent.  Maybe we have it better than most here which I am willing to be open to, but so far, this forum is a drag.  I'm not damaged, my kids aren't damaged, my wife is damaged, and we are all in this together. 

While I understand many here will want to protect me from being too naive and optimistic in this approach, I would hope that unless you have something positive to say about this forum thread, maybe you could keep scrolling.

Thanks though.

[Notwendy]

 This board is one of the few I’ve seen where posting “run” messages isn’t allowed and that decision is left to each poster. Not all posts apply to each situation. Truly - if your outcome is more positive - sharing what you did would be appreciated by others here.  

My parents stayed together and the positive impact of my fathers efforts contributed a lot to the family. I also don’t think it’s useful to blame the BPD parent for their struggles, but there can be challenges for the family as a whole to work at. For some posters-not staying together was the better decision for them. BPD is a spectrum disorder - each situation is different.

[Cat Familiar]

As a veteran of 2 marriages to BPD partners, my point of view about whether or not a BPD relationship is salvageable is related to how extreme the expression of the disorder is.

In my first marriage, the level of emotional, verbal, and physical abuse, coupled with financial irresponsibility, criminal behavior, and infidelity nearly destroyed me. Even had I known then how to more successfully navigate BPD behaviors, this relationship wouldn’t have been survivable.

My current husband is BPD-lite. Still when some of the behaviors surface, it’s a royal pain in the neck. What I’ve learned here and through therapy has given me a strong foundation to cope and turn down the volume.

Is it a happy relationship? Not really. Is it an intimate relationship? No. I’ve figured out how to carve out a reasonably content life for myself, apart from my partner, though we remain married and living like roommates. Would I have chosen to live like this had I known at the outset that the *honeymoon phase* was merely a phase and not at all representative of the actual person I was getting involved with? I don’t know how I’d answer that at this point in my life. There are some positives, but I had no idea about the extent of the negatives.

Why on earth did I marry not one, but TWO husbands with BPD? It’s because I grew up with a BPD mother and the weird behavior I observed, even at the beginning, didn’t send me running, as it would another woman who grew up in an emotionally healthy home. Rather, it felt like *family*

A phrase I’ve often heard here is “I’d rather come from a broken home than live in one.” I’ve spent tens of thousands of dollars in therapy to unlearn/relearn new patterns of thinking and feeling that stemmed from my mother’s disorder. For me, it’s not a question of blaming my mother for inflicting emotional damage upon me. I know she loved me and did the best she could. However, there were lots of developmental learning steps that I didn’t acquire at the appropriate age, due to the fact that she had no understanding nor ability to serve as a role model for that knowledge.

[ShaggyMack]

Hello Cat Familiar,

Thank you for your perspective!

I too also wonder about why some people such as myself find myself drawn toward BPD relationships (happily married so speaking in the past tense here), as opposed to a more rewarding and healthy expression from someone else.  I think there is some truth to the "felt like family" comment that you made in your post.

I grew up with a mother who most assuredly has some form of mental health disorder (not saying I don't) and I ended up moving across the country to get away from it all only to fall in love and marry my BPD wife. One positive take away from my marriage is that I really have used all of the slanderous claims against me to really look within and ask myself, "is what she is saying true about me". This is what I call my "fast track to self actualization" because I can either agree and work on the thing she is using as ammo against me in a healthy manner or I can dismiss it (true or false) and chalk it up to emotional flailing on her part.  Either way, having a BPD sufferer in your family does not allow for repressed issues because everything is brought to the surface. 

Flimsy silver lining I know, but silver none the less.

[kells76]

Hello ShaggyMack  just adding my voice to the others welcoming you to the site. Glad you found us and are ready to get some more support with your relationship.

You've certainly heard a lot of perspectives on having a spouse with BPD. Have you had a chance yet to check out our article on What Does it Take to Be in a Relationship with a pwBPD (person with BPD)? That's a good starting place to get a feel for what makes BPDFamily a unique site.

Not sure if I caught it in your post -- are you seeing a therapist or counselor right now? If so, how has that been going?

Keep us in the loop on how you and your kids are doing in general, and on specific conflicts and "he said-she said" dialogues. This is a good group to bring concrete challenges to, in order to get a lot of eyes on how we can help you "stop the bleeding" and start making things better from your end.

Again, welcome;

kells76

[ShaggyMack]

Hello Kells,

Thank you for the kind words of support. This is all really new to me to be honest, I knew that something was going on but I guess I really bought into the "work in progress" identity that my wife insists that I should have. As a person with traits that might be similar to those of a high functioning narcissist, I guess I just never believe her completely when she tells me I am a piece of PLEASE READ. I am not currently in therapy but I probably should be. While I am not naïve to the fact that my kids have been greatly effected by their parents behaviors and arguing in the house, as well as the melodramatic black and white's associated with a BPD parent, I have found that journaling, daily meditation, and a commitment to active listening and empathy towards others has really been paying off for me lately. 

Another thing I have noticed since I have become aware of the PD traits that my wife and I have, is that this simple recognition has altered the severity of our exchanges (as a whole family). Recognizing that the emotional response to things is firstly, not in her control, and that she doesn't want or know that she is responding from emotion and that a rational response during stress cannot be expected from her, I have been very successful at changing the subject through humor, or sometimes even getting her to admit that her anger is probably fear or sadness.  My wife is an extremely intelligent woman with an empathy for people that amazes me at times.  I know deep down that this is not some special circumstance that I find myself in, and that it will take many years of hard work through skills and therapy for me to reverse the damage I have caused in my selfishness and lack of awareness, but I am willing to do the work toward self actualization for myself and my children from this point forward. I hope that this will be enough to compensate for my partner if she never realizes that she needs help for her BPD.  I feel like I could be satisfied with that right now.  Time will tell.