How to tell BPD spouse I think we should do a trial "emotional separation"?

[tranch]

This might sound impossible or ridiculous, but I guess I'm thinking of trying to ease into a breakup. Is this even possible with a pwBPD?

I've thought about separating a lot over the past 2 years. Things are just too unpredictable to be worth it, and I don't think either of us are getting enough out of it. The stresses of interacting with other people (me and our son) and the rest of life mean dozens of daily triggers for her, and I just don't see any hope for forward progress because it's like she's constantly trying to heal from these recurring open wounds.

I've been in therapy for a year (a first for me, I'm 40), and it was eye opening to see that my mood flows pretty much with what's going on with her. Sound obvious but it just made me realize how affected I am by her. I'm realizing it's taking a toll, and that also makes me worried for my son.

We have a house in a market that's become expensive. It was her dream to move out here and be semi-homesteaders (hobby gardeners and foresters basically). I'd love to still try to enjoy this place, and I think there's a lot here for her too. I don't want to move (full time) and I don't want to make her move (full time).

We have a 15 y.o. son.

I am about to get a new job that's mostly WFH.

I want to explain that this doesn't seem to be working, we don't seem to be making forward progress, and we're both continuing to feel hurt in the process. Of course I'm tempted to say stuff ABOUT HER, but I don't think that's productive. One way I think I can say it simply that things today seem to be about the same as 2 years ago, and it just doesn't look like it's going to be different in another year or 2. This sounds so boring and simplistic and cold but I just want to keep it simple but direct.

I think if she was truly out on her own, she'd figure it out (and I actually think she'd be better off for it), however today I handle the majority of the complicated stuff, like discipline, job-hunting, school stuff, and health for our son, all our finances, all the critical house maintenance. She is a hard worker when she's "on" and can get an incredible amount done, however she would not be able to maintain this place on her own (while I would).

I want to suggest we "separate in place" and take a break from trying to do things together. I don't want to withhold family activities from our son, although trying to do these may cause more drama than they're worth today. Regardless I'd suggest we still do some things together, maybe a game night, movie night, and an evening out once a week. (This is honestly more than we're typically able to stick to today.)

While part of me wants to say, "let's still hang out and go on a date or do something together once in a while," because I still love her, ...see above, I just don't think it's worth it. And who knows, maybe by forcing some space, it will allow us to make some next-step decisions. Note that I do somewhat feel attached to the relationship still, but being honest with myself, I just see this drama going on forever, and what if we're both robbing ourselves of something peaceful or at least that is going to give us a chance to grow without being defined and held captive by our current relationship? Are we happier without each other?

Have you tried this? How would you suggest it?

[livethequestions]

Hi tranch,

I can't tell you how much I relate to your story. I am in a very similar spot with my spouse, and I have been wanting to bring up a trial separation (living apart) for a while, but I have significant concerns about their ability to maintain the house and look after our pets without me there. (I know they would unfortunately never agree to me taking the pets during the trial separation, or to them being the one living elsewhere, so that makes things very tricky.)

I think that your suggestion for a "separation in place" could potentially work. This is sort of what I am doing. Five months ago, my spouse and I agreed to no longer being romantic partners, and we now have separate bedrooms. We still spend time together, but we also do things separately—more so than we did before. I've started going on overnight solo trips regularly, and they've been okay with it. They are tolerating it, and I'm trying to stay hopeful that it won't all blow up in my face someday soon.

It also sounds like you're on the right track with how you might want to break the news—not making it about her, but keeping it simple and direct. That's what has worked best for me with my spouse, too.

Lastly, just want to say you sound like a very caring person, and I can tell you genuinely want your wife and your son to be happier, too. I commend you for that, because it's not always easy to hang on to it when your loved one has BPD.

Keep us posted if you can.

[tranch]

Thank you for your reply, livethequestions.

Yes, I can totally relate to that concern that they won't be able to manage things on their own, but still trying to allow them to live the life they want and have their relationships with kids and pets, etc.

What would you say is the reason for the trial separation you'd like to bring up? If you've already been disconnecting romantically, are you looking to ease your way out or are you open to staying together if you see some growth on their part?

[ForeverDad]

Remember that our relationships were with adults.  We married adults.  The reality is that adults have to face their responsibilities and the consequences of any poor behaviors.

Not to be too blunt, but if we had wanted to be caregivers or caretakers then we would have trained to be nurses or aides rather than become marriage mates.

So while we can try to be properly behaving people, we must be careful not to overextend ourselves.  We also have to be responsible to our own futures, and our children's futures, if any.

In cases where a troubled relationship includes a Borderline or other acting-out spouse (Borderline, Narcissistic, Antisocial, Histrionic) it is typical that we have to fully End the relationship.  Trying to stay "friends" or monitoring their lives just doesn't work.  Usually the only exception is whether there are shared children, then we communicate about the children.

[thankful person]

I’m not at all interested in ever having another relationship, and my wife and I actually get along and parent well together, the main problem is her saying - constantly - that I’m not a good enough wife. And at this stage I feel like saying, “fine, I don’t think you’re much of a wife either and I’m done with trying to please you.” We have 3 small children who I think she needs my help with, though she denies it and apparently just wants me gone. I’d love to stay with my family here living in the spare room (where I sleep anyway) and stop all the accusations and drama. But sadly my wife won’t have it because… ? Well I guess it’s because she thrives on the accusations and drama.

[livethequestions]

What would you say is the reason for the trial separation you'd like to bring up? If you've already been disconnecting romantically, are you looking to ease your way out or are you open to staying together if you see some growth on their part?

I am definitely looking to ease my way out, and there is no hope of getting back together. I feel like I have been clear about that with my spouse, but I'm not always sure they believe me or fully understand. Time will tell. I think the reason I would give them for a trial separation is so we can see what it feels like for us to live apart, and manage whatever comes up (like difficulty with house chores, pet care, etc.) knowing the situation is temporary. It would be good practice for the real thing. What reasons do you think you might give your wife?

In cases where a troubled relationship includes a Borderline or other acting-out spouse (Borderline, Narcissistic, Antisocial, Histrionic) it is typical that we have to fully End the relationship.  Trying to stay "friends" or monitoring their lives just doesn't work.  Usually the only exception is whether there are shared children, then we communicate about the children.

I appreciate your perspective, ForeverDad, and I've certainly considered that myself. I try to prepare for the possibility that I may need to cut off all contact with my spouse, someday. In the meantime, for my own peace of mind, I need to see if there is another way out. I just have to try, even if I might regret it later.

I’m not at all interested in ever having another relationship, and my wife and I actually get along and parent well together, the main problem is her saying - constantly - that I’m not a good enough wife. And at this stage I feel like saying, “fine, I don’t think you’re much of a wife either and I’m done with trying to please you.” We have 3 small children who I think she needs my help with, though she denies it and apparently just wants me gone. I’d love to stay with my family here living in the spare room (where I sleep anyway) and stop all the accusations and drama. But sadly my wife won’t have it because… ? Well I guess it’s because she thrives on the accusations and drama.

That is a tough spot to be in, thankful person. I hope you know you deserve to be treated a whole lot better Have you considered or tried couples counseling? It may be helpful IF the relationship is not abusive and your wife has some awareness of her own issues. Although, in my case, the relationship is abusive, and couples counseling is still helping—but only because we are using it explicitly to begin the 'uncoupling' process.

[goodintentions]

@tranch I resonate with this! My situation with my wife is remarkably similar to yours.

I just shared my intentions to "take a break" from the relationship, wanting more alone time to think and reevaluate. I acknowledged having bitterness and resentment to process. I tried to word things carefully, in writing, and never brought up divorce or formal separation. But she started grilling me and asking all these presumptive questions, like, "Where are you going to stay?"

Me: "Oh, I never said I am moving out... I just need a break from the relationship."
Her: "That's not a thing."

She's been obsessing over steps one would normally take in formal separation (telling the child, canceling vacations, requesting disclosure of all purchases, etc.). She's told our friends and my parents that I am traumatizing her by being in the house still. She's making veiled threats about how she can't function when I'm there (sleep, eat, cope, etc.) and it would be bad for our kid if she was no longer around, etc...

I told her I'm willing to brainstorm plans/schedules if she needs time apart, or sleep in the spare office, etc. But it just can't involve me forfeiting parenting duties, removing access to my home and pets and office, etc. I didn't anticipate she'd try to kick me out if I asked for a break.

Do keep us posted!

[livednlearned]

I think I spot an assumption here that might be worth looking more closely at: which is that someone with BPD doesn't like the chronic conflict or drama. Like might not be the right word. Maybe it's more along the lines of "getting something out of" chronic conflict or drama.

The past and current people in my life with BPD seem to prefer conflict over total silence or quiet or peace, since those states of mind feel like emptiness to someone lacking a fully developed self. Emptiness = annihilation.

If you're considering a therapeutic separation, that seems to involve quite a bit of structure and the intent is to return to the relationship. You can search for that phrase here or elsewhere online to learn how others have handled it, though it sounds like your goal is to end the relationship while still having a platonic one (and staying in place) so you can reduce the chronic conflict. Is that accurate? Would you continue to do this after your child is 18?

[tranch]

What reasons do you think you might give your wife?

I thought of keeping it vague at first since I'm suggesting separating in place. I wouldn't even use the word separating, and instead just say that I think we should try just taking a total emotional break from each other, not try to spend any personal time together except for some family time. I'd say that what's going on recently just isn't working for us. We're trying to bounce back from conflicts and get back into good days as soon as possible, but then we just keep repeating this storm cycle. As much as we'd like each other to be happy, it's not working right now, we're accidentally causing each other and ourselves more suffering and not really settling any of the unaddressed issues.

@goodintentions thanks for sharing and I'm sorry you're going through this tough time too. In the past 2 years, my wife has, on a couple occasions, brought up ideas of separating, that we're just not compatible. Typically she focuses on that she never gets what she needs. This is painful to hear. "There is literally nothing about my life that I like." Of course in better times she seems totally grateful and loving to me and our son, which makes this all so confusing because I'm always teased by these better days. Anyway, I think what I meant to reply to is that when my wife introduced this, I thought this as an opportunity to basically push into the breakup. Like here's my chance, it's HER idea, or it's mutual but she's introducing it. It sounds like in your case it's the other way around. You opened the door and it's like she's ready for it and maybe has been waiting for the opportunity. Do you think you are?

@livednlearned omg this is a recurring thought of mine lately. I have wanted to tell her that it's like she's addicted to drama/conflict. I recently read Unwinding Anxiety which touched on this. We perpetuate the drama, it's a part of our habits. I'd like her to dig into this for her own (and my) good, but she's resistant to any therapy or self help right now. She believes she's working on it herself, via new age awakening, etc. I have to make sure I have a plan and it's not just wishful thinking (I'm basically just brainstorming currently). Right now I alternate between a hope that everything will turn out beautifully, she magically is well and we're happy, and wishful thinking that we can have a platonic separation, maybe even keep up our current mini-homestead. I think partly, because we're not really romantic (she has no interest), it would almost be a relief for her to be free from the expectations of a relationship. I'll do some research on a therapeutic separation, because that might make the most sense for both of us right now. I think that could be a stepping stone to either some sort of permanent separation or a major recognition and effort on her part, like starting DBT.

[zondolit]

Hi tranch and also livethequestion,

I tried a therapeutic separation with my spouse. I really think these healing separations are great ideas for some couples, and I'd love to see "society" accepting and promoting these in cases it makes sense. When you've been in a long-term relationship with the dysfunction of BPD and all the walking-on-eggshells it engenders, a separation gives some space and time to heal, reset, and get stronger in order to practice the skills required to live with someone with BPD. 

In my case, we never got to the separation. We spent three months "negotiating" the separation with a therapist and finally the therapist said they couldn't help us: go see a divorce mediator. Essentially I was asking for emotional distance through a separation and my husband kept putting more and more emotional contact into the separation agreement. He twisted even these meetings into trying to get his emotional needs met by me.

In my case, I wasn't ready to move to a divorce. I really did hope the separation would work. I was in such a state (of FOG, fear, anxiety, distraction, etc.) I needed to clear my mind by getting away from him. Maybe then I could make such a big decision as divorce or stay in the marriage. For me the objective of the separation was healing, which I needed whether or not I stayed in the marriage.

My husband would not agree to see a divorce mediator. So then I went to a lawyer and started a divorce--essentially to get the separation I had come to see I needed. Once I started the separation, I knew I had to divorce him.

Every step I saw as a chance for him to come to terms with reality or change his ways. (I know, I know: I can only change me. . .) But every step he dysregulated even more. This, at least, was validating in that, yes, I had to leave the marriage.

If you know you want a divorce, why not just do it? That seems most honest and straightforward. You can't control anyone else's reaction. If you want a divorce and maybe your spouse doesn't, there's no pretty way around that. So address it head on.

From what I read about therapeutic separations, the professionals recommend it be a physical separation: separate living spaces not just different rooms in the same home.

[livednlearned]

I have wanted to tell her that it's like she's addicted to drama/conflict.

If that is her addiction, what do you think yours might be? Usually there is a counterpart when one partner has an addiction to something.

For me, focusing on someone who cannot function without me made me feel better. At least I wasn't as bad as him. It also gave me so much to worry about, and that meant not focusing on deeply personal things I really needed to tend to.

I have a lot of things going for me so it was a shock to discover how genuinely low my self esteem was. This became painfully apparent when my marriage ended and the custody battle was over. There wasn't conflict to hide it anymore, and to be candid, that hurt more than being in an abusive relationship.

[ForeverDad]

So then I went to a lawyer and started a divorce--essentially to get the separation I had come to see I needed. Once I started the separation, I knew I had to divorce him.

Every step I saw as a chance for him to come to terms with reality or change his ways. (I know, I know: I can only change me. . .) But every step he dysregulated even more. This, at least, was validating in that, yes, I had to leave the marriage.

If you know you want a divorce, why not just do it? That seems most honest and straightforward. You can't control anyone else's reaction. If you want a divorce and maybe your spouse doesn't, there's no pretty way around that. So address it head on.

This, more or less, is what I faced in my marriage too.  I thought having a child would make my spouse more positive and happy with her life.  Instead it made everything worse and sunk our marriage.  By the time he was a preschooler she was threatening to disappear with our child.  I was left with no alternative but to separate and divorce if I was to be a parent.  (My lawyer said separation in itself was not a long term fix.)  Life did get better (less bad) several years later post-divorce once a workable parenting schedule deflated her entitlement.  Now that he aged out of the system and he's an adult, life is much calmer.  Of course, so far as I know she never sought counseling and I still have be careful not to trigger her any time she is around.

My background is that I strenuously advocate marriage but my Ex's FOO and mental health issues sabotaged my best intentions.

If your spouse will work with you to find a long term solution, great.  But accept the alternative if she won't.

[zondolit]

I was left with no alternative but to separate and divorce if I was to be a parent.

Recognition that my marriage was interfering with my parenting was a deal-breaker for me: I left the marriage (in part--there were plenty of other reasons to leave) to save my relationship with my children and give them the parenting they deserve. This inverted all the notions I'd previously held about divorce and what is best for children! It took me a really long time to realize this: the children are better off with divorced parents, one who is stable, than married parents who both come off as unstable! Plus I am far better off not in the marriage. (The divorce process is awful and I'm not yet posting about it because I hate it and, despite all the drama, it is so boring: just another textbook case of a high-conflict divorce. Arghhh!)

[goodintentions]

This has been super helpful for me to read. And I have also been coming to the conclusion that staying together "for the kid" isn't helping the kid -- in fact, since I called for a break/time-out in our relationship, my wife has been kind of a super-mom and totally stepped up her parenting engagement, IMO. And I've had some quality parenting time alone. It makes me wonder if that would be better long-term.

I've been staying in a separate room at home for a week. My wife did soften a bit after the first day or two, and even sent me a nice text today. She's not demanding I leave any more. We'll see what happens.

[ForeverDad]

Separating seems to defy common sense but when a substantive mental illness is involved... well, that puts everything in a different light.

Living in a calm and stable home, even if only for part of their lives, will give the children a better example of normalcy for their own future relationships.  Staying together would mean that's the only example of home life they would have known — discord, conflict, invalidation, alienation attempts, overall craziness, etc.  Over 30 years ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action will enable your lives, or at least a part of your lives going forward, to be spent be in a calm, stable environment — your home, wherever that is — away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.  And some of the flying monkeys too.