Oh boy

[uncleflo]

Hi All,

I’ve made a few posts in this forum before and am thankful for all the help provided but after a long few months, I find myself needing support again. Before I move forward with a few questions, let me provide some quick backstory, My apologies for the super long post:

- Together with my wife for 27 years, married for 21, with two amazing, brilliant kids. She and I have been best friends since we were 14.

- In 2006, she cheated on me with a 17-year-old student of hers when our son was 1. It paralyzed me emotionally and deepened the childhood intimacy/abandonment issues I had (my father cheated on my mother multiple times). My wife blamed postpartum and agreed to therapy. She was diagnosed with HPD and discovered her mother had BPD during this time.

- Since 2010 or so, she has cyber-cheated on me multiple times. Not wanting to damage my children (she is a good mother for the most part), I stayed loyal to my vows, we worked together to fix any issues we had (i.e. me not giving her enough support, yadda yadda), and our sex life was always great after, of course. Things would stabilize for extended periods each time, giving me hope we turned a corner.

- In 2019, she was charged with felonious sexual assault after being accused of having sex with another 17-year-old student of hers. Our home was raided, she was all over the media, she lost her job (shocking, I know), has an expungement-based 5-year probation which ends in 2024, and has to register as a sex offender. I have worked from home since 2010, and she ended up having to do so also because nobody will hire a felon. During this time she began to suspect she had BPD and we began to work together to help her get the help she needed. She seemed open to getting a hold of it and getting therapy (which has turned out to be the opposite of helpful I’ve discovered). Again, my children are doing great despite all of it. I’m not deluding myself in saying this. I’m proud of how well I’ve shielded and helped raise them. They both know something is off with her, of course, but we discuss compassion and patience with her mood swings and tantrums. It has made them both compassionate young men. They know she has BPD and don’t judge her for it.

- In 2022, things began to shift. After not being on meds, she began taking Lithium, Seroquel, and Cymbalta after a psychiatrist said she didn’t have BPD but complex PTSD from a traumatic childhood. I disagree with the assessment, of course, based on my experiences and research but I played along to be supportive. Beginning in that year, she has been (willingly) poached by her childhood male friend who has romanced her to no end. He is giving her everything she ever needed and I failed to give her. Her therapist, her mentally ill sister whom she has reconnected with, and friends have convinced her that she doesn’t have BPD and she began gaslighting me by saying I tried to manipulate her into thinking she has BPD. Not once have any of her therapists asked for my perspectives and what is being said in those sessions seems to be mainly about how bad of a husband I’ve been. A husband who sticks by his wife’s side through it all, including being charged with a sex crime, is the problem, sure. I find that laughable.

I’ve mentioned a willingness to see a couple’s therapist during this time based on my feeling that my role in her mental illness is being twisted to fit her narrative. She has full-on discarded me in the last year, turned me black as soot, and asked for an in-home trial separation on Saturday. She has repeatedly said recently that we have “different intimacy needs” and have “no sexual chemistry”, have been a “selfish, entitled male” the entire marriage, and that my lack of intimacy is the reason she acted outside of the marriage throughout the years (Hmmm, I wonder why I might have struggled trusting intimacy with her… ha-ha). It’s Gaslighting 101 in my estimation and I feel completely devalued and discarded. It’s me versus her many newly acquired sycophants. Everything I say is twisted and she’s walking around like she’s happier than she’s ever been. She says, “I am sorry for the anger, resentment, and especially pain I cause. I do think that as co-parents of kick-ass, healthy kids if we are going to be functional for their sake, we do need to be friends-enough someday.” Do I think she’s sorry? Not in the least. I don’t think she’s capable of feeling true remorse or guilt. She wrote this to me in April, “I know (me) is more than willing to be affectionate now the way I have wanted him to be (cuddles, sharing a bed, etc.), and that he understands how important touch and attention are to me now. Yet he also understands my complicated push-pull tendencies. I know that (me)’s love is pure, undiluted, and sweet. It may not be lustfully passionate, shiny and new, and “exciting” after 27 years together. But it is pure and healthy. I know I love (me) and he is my partner in all ways. I know (cuckold) is unhealthy, as is my sister, but I want both in my life, with boundaries set in place.” Fast forward to May, she says, “During treatment with (x), and then reiterated by a therapist and psychiatrist, realizing that my acting out was always precipitated by feelings of loneliness and isolation. My vision of marital intimacy seemed unattainable, though, in part because I was conditioned to feel (incorrectly) I had no right to have needs + wants, but also because I often felt invalidated or crazy for asking for what I wanted.” In the span of a month, I went from being healthy to a problem. These don’t feel like her words but somebody else’s to me but maybe I am crazy after all. Sigh.

So here’s the rub... my oldest son is going off to college, my youngest is going into high school, and I don’t want to cause them any additional stress. Plus, based on her only making $400 a week (if that) and needing to pay for my son’s first year of college, we can’t afford to take on another housing bill, we only have one car, we can’t afford a lawyer, and I have no interest in splitting from our 4-year old dog and three 3-year old cats. I’m using this time to get in better shape, eat better, and focus on work, art, faith, and my children’s needs.

I ask you: Has anybody ever seen a trial separation work out (or should I move to the other forum… ha-ha)? What are some suggestions on what I can do during this time? How should I look to interact with her over the course of these upcoming months (I have limited contact with her, stopped watching TV with her, having coffee with her in the morning, texting with her, etc.)?

Thank you for your thoughts. And if you read all this, you are my hero.  

Uncle

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[Cat Familiar]

It looks like you have few options due to finances, specifically her lack of earning ability. Maybe you could define this *separation* more specifically. Is there an extra bedroom in the house that she will occupy? Is she going on dates with her childhood friend?

It looks like you’re in for at least 8 more years of this situation, given that your younger son may need help for college. How do you foresee this playing out in the future?

[EyesUp]

Hello Unc.

Sorry for what you're going though. 

A few comments.

If I read you correctly, you are actively exploring how to detach without triggering a nuclear event. You've got your kids' interests in focus, especially your younger son's, as well as a practical sense of who/what/when, and you're wondering if there is a chance for a soft landing or at least a delayed event - so that your son is out of the blast radius.

The current situation is not good and may be deteriorating, and so you're also asking if it's possible to separate, or what a separation process might look like. How am I doing so far?

Of course, every situation is different.

In my case, some awakening occurred for me after 4 marriage counselors over maybe 10 years, the discovery of an affair (and then another). I was trying to navigate through the chaos and keep things together for my kids for a while. If you had asked me what would happen if I discovered my wife was having an affair, I would have said that it would be a game ender.  However when it actually happened, I was completely unprepared and surprised by my own response - which was to play defense and to try to figure out what was happening. I took some time, interviewed attorneys, got finances in order...  we were still seeing the fourth and final counselor while I was getting focused on a question similar to the one you've asked here - is it possible to exit in a responsible way that doesn't invite scorched earth and maximum damage to kids?

Ultimately, once I decided to separate, physical intimacy stopped. This was the first time my X truly perceived anything like a boundary enforcement. As a result, this was also my X's clue that something had truly changed. She accused me of emotional abuse for withholding intimacy. While I was preparing documents and financial statements for my diligent attorney, my then-wife responded by electronically filing for divorce without any supporting docs. My filing was in the mail, but my X's electronic complaint was received first - which also turned out to be a good thing, because she perceived her action as a victory - rather than the unavoidable rejection that would have occurred if my filing was received first.

We cohabitated for some time. During this period, she was out of the house with her boyfriend(s) as much as possible. Which was great - I had maximum time with my kids for about a year prior to the first hearing, which would eventually help me get 50-50 parenting time.

We only cohabitated for about 6 months, because she moved out. I could not have predicted this, but when she realized that I was not going to simply leave, she made another typically impulsive decision. As a result, I also ended up keeping the marital residence.

I know that I've been extremely fortunate through all of this, and I don't think my situation is easily reproduced, but I offer the following suggestions:

- Read "Splitting" and "BIFF" - and then read them both again. And then again.
- Know your local laws, but consider keeping a voice recorder on your person at all times to be prepared to counter false allegations - you're already aware of false narratives
- Read through the various resources re: detaching and take your time
- Think about how to separate within the house - do you have a spare bedroom, office, or other room where one of you can sleep?
- Is your wife stable enough to agree to keep boyfriends out of the house during a separation period?
- Can you demonstrate some basic level of support for your wife while all of this is going on?  e.g., I continued to make my X coffee every morning, as I had always done, in part to counterbalance everything else, and in part to demonstrate to my kids how a compassionate adult should behave (they were right there with us), and in part to attempt to set a tone for whatever was to come next. I've tried to maintain this approach when we must interact post-divorce, and I feel it limits my X's ability to act out.

The answers to these and other questions might help you chart a course and the timing that works for you.

Like your wife, my X also had some red flags on her record that would have made a petition for majority parenting time difficult - although in her filing, that's what she intended to go for. Did she want more child support?  More control?  A sense of "winning?" Doesn't matter - don't get roped into her emotional motives and turmoil, just stay focused on your kids.   

Fortunately, I found an attorney with experience in cases with disordered individuals - and she was a great asset in navigating through the rest of the process. Use some of this diligence time to interview a bunch of attorneys in your area and ask the questions that matter to you and your case (experience with high conflict divorces?  disordered spouse?  countering false claims and disparagement?  views re: past felonies?  etc.). My X agreed to terms at the courthouse, just minutes before the first pre-trial hearing - it's a cliche, but it actually happened.

Ultimately, I recognized then (and still do) that I want and need my X to be the best she can be for our kids. So I tried to get through it without responding to every (or any) false statement or emotional outburst, and instead focused on my kids and the long game.

So - can you do a trial separation? Can you cohabitate? It really comes down to the particular dynamic between you and your wife... and largely how you're prepared to conduct yourself during this process. It sounds like you've already developed a lot of empathy and fortitude to get to this point, which is what's required. That doesn't make it easy - but it might make it possible. That statement does not override the wisdom of this board - which is: It's very difficult to do.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

[Notwendy]

On the topic of paying for college---

A friend of mine was divorced by her husband who had been cheating on her. She didn't want to split up the family. She has solid values and wanted to do what she could to keep the family together, but he had found someone else.

He was the main wage earner and she worked part time and was primary parent. This was an adjustment for her. There were some tough times, emotionally for her. After the divorce, she went to work full time but her exH had the higher salary.

Don't know if/what issues her H had but he refused to help pay for college and somehow managed to keep his assets from the settlement so my friend and her kids had limited funds.  The kids were also very smart, like yours. They managed to get good merit scholarships. They selected colleges where they'd be at the top of the applicant pool. I don't know how this all worked out with the financial aid office but they based financial need on only the mother's salary, not the father's.  He did have partial custody.

Fast forward- the kids all graduated and are doing fine.

In my own situation, due to my BPD mother's spending, there wasn't much left to help me with college. In addition, BPD mother controlled what money my father gave me. So I appreciated what my parents did give me but knew I couldn't depend on it. I chose to attend a lower cost state college, and worked, so that I didn't have to rely on them.

Causing kids stress- well having a BPD mother also causes stress. And I can't help but be concerned about the ages of your boys now. Because their mother has had affairs with boys the same age as your sons and the news about at least one of them is public and your boys will be attending school where his peers all know that. I don't know how the parents of their peers will feel about their boys going over to your wife's house. While you are concerned that having separate living quarters would cause stress on your boys, it might be the opposite- they could have a place that isn't shared with their mother and have their friends over without concern about her behavior with them.

The bottom line- if kids are bright and resourceful, they will find a way to get a college education whether or not you have all the money to help them pay for it.

[uncleflo]

It looks like you have few options due to finances, specifically her lack of earning ability. Maybe you could define this *separation* more specifically. Is there an extra bedroom in the house that she will occupy? Is she going on dates with her childhood friend?

Thank you so much for your thoughts, Cat. Few options indeed (though a pro se divorce would only cost me $140!). We don't have an extra bedroom yet but my son will be going off to college in August and I could sleep in his room while he's off at school. That said, I also don't want to have my 14-year-old concerned by the new arrangements, you know? For many years we slept in separate rooms based on infidelities, her co-sleeping with both of our children since 2013, and her snoring like a sailor who was out drinking until 3 in the morning. Ironically, when my 13-year-old stopped cosleeping with her, I painted the bedroom and we started sleeping in the same room together again. It's like I gave her everything she had been b*tching about all these years and then once she had it all, she decided it was "too late."

re: Her knight-in-shining-armor (who also had sex with her sister, by the way… gross…): He lives in Pennsylvania and because she's a convicted felon, she can't leave the state (fun!) but I suspect they have been having e-romantic relations ever since they last "broke up." In March, she said she was done with him and so sorry about how she treated me, blah blah blah, and then suddenly got real, real quiet about him in May/June. I've been in this game long enough to know when there is silence, something is burning in the closet.

It looks like you’re in for at least 8 more years of this situation, given that your younger son may need help for college. How do you foresee this playing out in the future?

That's a great question. Same poo, different day? A few options:

1.) I figure the no-contact I've been giving her since Saturday - which I am fully committed to, by the way - will eventually burn a hole in her and she'll "miss me" and want to talk about things.
2.) She and her boyfriend will have a falling out and she'll "need me" again.
3.) She'll set up an appointment with a marriage counselor, which I said I was open to ( * I don't think she'll do this because then she would have to explain so much to an impartial therapist instead of having a one-sided victim-fest with her therapists ).
4.) She'll leave once her conviction is expunged ( * She has a retirement account though, and I would ask for half of it since it's technically married property. She may not realize this. )
5.) Who the f knows when it comes to somebody with BPD?

Thank you for letting me talk all this out, Cat.

Uncle N

[uncleflo]

The current situation is not good and maybe deteriorating, so you're also asking if it's possible to separate, or what a separation process might look like. How am I doing so far?

Pretty great.  Thank you so much for sharing your story with me Eyes, and I'm sorry for all you went through yourself.

I know that I've been extremely fortunate through all of this, and I don't think my situation is easily reproduced, but I offer the following suggestions:

All excellent suggestions (and thank you for the books!). The one I struggle with…

- Can you demonstrate some basic level of support for your wife while all of this is going on?  e.g., I continued to make my X coffee every morning, as I had always done, in part to counterbalance everything else, and in part to demonstrate to my kids how a compassionate adult should behave (they were right there with us), and in part to attempt to set a tone for whatever was to come next. I've tried to maintain this approach when we must interact post-divorce, and I feel it limits my X's ability to act out.

I feel like I've been doing this for a year and I'm mentally exhausted from it. Maybe once I detach from my attraction to her, my attachment to her, etc. even more, I'll feel more zen in my approach but at the moment I'm just furious and sick of her. Being in the same room with her or even looking at her fills me with, well… disgust. What I feel like I'm working through the most right now is how mad I am at myself for wasting so much time of my life with this woman. My kids are a gift and I am grateful to her for helping bring them into this world… but I'm beating myself up for not leaving her in 2019. I really am.

So - can you do a trial separation? Can you cohabitate? It really comes down to the particular dynamic between you and your wife... and largely how you're prepared to conduct yourself during this process. It sounds like you've already developed a lot of empathy and fortitude to get to this point, which is what's required. That doesn't make it easy - but it might make it possible. That statement does not override the wisdom of this board - which is: It's very difficult to do.

As a good friend of mine said to me recently, I'm resilient. That said, I've started the process of getting a medical marijuana card for myself. I haven't smoked pot or drank since I was in my 20s. Drinking isn't something I'm interested in but considering I have PTSD from all she's put me through, a joint on the deck sounds good to me.

Thank you again, my friend. All my love to you and everybody here.

Uncle N

[uncleflo]

And I can't help but be concerned about the ages of your boys now. Because their mother has had affairs with boys the same age as your sons and the news about at least one of them is public and your boys will be attending school where his peers all know that. I don't know how the parents of their peers will feel about their boys going over to your wife's house. While you are concerned that having separate living quarters would cause stress on your boys, it might be the opposite- they could have a place that isn't shared with their mother and have their friends over without concern about her behavior with them.

Thank you for your thoughts on this, and you bring up some valid concerns. I do think she's aware enough to not cross this line with my son's friends with her current legal situation (she doesn't want to sink her deal, after all) and seems pretty legitimately grossed out by the fact that our oldest son is the same age as those she boinked… but who knows once she's off the registry. They play by their own set of rules, don't they? And you know what? They should know who their mother is. I used to try to protect them from it but maybe there's a lesson in there for them… cold of me, I know... but I'm feeling a bit chilly, at the moment.

The bottom line- if kids are bright and resourceful, they will find a way to get a college education whether or not you have all the money to help them pay for it.

Luckily my mother left them both enough for 3 years of college, so they'll be good on that end. For me, it's having a safe spot to rest their heads whenever they come home. I hate the idea of them feeling split when they're on break or not having a loving, family home like the one we've worked hard to provide for them (especially me these last four years). I suppose if she wants to leave, she can leave. If she wants to serve me divorce papers, she can serve them. I know she wants me to be the bad guy so she can use that to color me black to the children but I won't play that game. I'll stay here like a mountain so they have a nice place to land no matter how hard I have to work to keep it. Heck, if she leaves, I'll have more time to work another job in that case, eh? 

Uncle N

[Notwendy]

Have you asked the boys how they feel? This is a hard line to walk as you don't want to triangulate with their mother or give them TMI about her affairs, but from my own perspective, this sets off alarm bells.

Your wife clearly has boundary issues. On your part, you have chosen to stay with her and keep your family intact, at least appearance wise.

The co-sleeping with your boys up to the age of 13 while you sleep in the other room? This is concerning too. Even if nothing physical went on.  It's not the kids' jobs to meet their parent's emotional needs but if she's not sleeping with you but she's sleeping with her sons, this is meeting her needs, not theirs.

My BPD mother's behavior was "normalized" in our family. When kids grow up with a disordered parent- this is the family they know, so it's their "normal". When I became a parent myself, I could look back at some of the things that were "acceptable" in my own family and I thought no way would that have been OK. I can understand why you are trying to provide a sense of stability and intactness for your boys, and don't want to be harsh on your wife, but do you know what they are thinking? By my teen years, I knew my mother's  behavior wasn't "normal" even if my parents tried to make it seem like it was.

[uncleflo]

Have you asked the boys how they feel? This is a hard line to walk as you don't want to triangulate with their mother or give them TMI about her affairs, but from my own perspective, this sets off alarm bells.

I have, yes. We're very open about discussing the legal situation and have been since the charges were dropped (albeit with some information left out, of course). I mean, it's hard not to when probation comes to do a home check.  

Have you asked the boys how they feel? This is a hard line to walk as you don't want to triangulate with their mother or give them TMI about her affairs, but from my own perspective, this sets off alarm bells.

I have. For me, it's more important that I maintain some semblance of order, as causing more disorder during their formative years wasn't something I felt would be of benefit. They are doing great, as I've worked hard to keep the propane levels minimized. I'm proud of both of them and myself for the work I've done in that regard.

The co-sleeping with your boys up to the age of 13 while you sleep in the other room? This is concerning too. Even if nothing physical went on.  It's not the kids' jobs to meet their parent's emotional needs but if she's not sleeping with you but she's sleeping with her sons, this is meeting her needs, not theirs.

True. Trying to discuss this was a lot like trying to tell a mosquito that biting you isn't nice, and was never a successful conversation (I'm a man; who understands motherhood here!). To be fair, they didn't sleep in the same bed but in the same room, and at almost 13, my youngest grew tired of sharing a room and kicked her out. This is what has led to where we are now. She feels like she has no "purpose."

My BPD mother's behavior was "normalized" in our family. When kids grow up with a disordered parent- this is the family they know, so it's their "normal". When I became a parent myself, I could look back at some of the things that were "acceptable" in my own family and I thought no way would that have been OK. I can understand why you are trying to provide a sense of stability and intactness for your boys, and don't want to be harsh on your wife, but do you know what they are thinking? By my teen years, I knew my mother's behavior wasn't "normal" even if my parents tried to make it seem like it was.

When she threatened suicide a few months ago, I sat them both down to delicately explain to them about their mother's disorder. They know about borderline from discussions about their grandmother's BPD, so to segue to, "Hey, you see all this behavior? The apple didn't fall too far from the tree…" was a relatively smooth conversation. Still, menopause + kids getting older + not being employable have created a tense situation with me and her more than anything else. The cocktail of meds is helping even her out on a few levels, yes, but she's still turned me blacker than coal and that doesn't create a nice environment for them methinks, as she wants nothing to do with me. It has been nice to spend more time with myself though.  

[Notwendy]

Your boys have gotten a much better explanation for their mother's behaviors than I did, so that is good. I knew something wasn't right with her but since she had blamed me ( blaming others is an aspect of BPD but I didn't know that) I thought that when I went away to college, my parents would get along better. That wasn't true, but it's what I thought until a sibling told me otherwise.

I am glad your son was able to kick his mother out of his room at 13. Kids begin to want their privacy at this age- that is his boundary.

[uncleflo]

Your boys have gotten a much better explanation for their mother's behaviors than I did, so that is good. I knew something wasn't right with her but since she had blamed me ( blaming others is an aspect of BPD but I didn't know that) I thought that when I went away to college, my parents would get along better. That wasn't true, but it's what I thought until a sibling told me otherwise.

I am glad your son was able to kick his mother out of his room at 13. Kids begin to want their privacy at this age- that is his boundary.

I’m really sorry you lived through what you lived through, my friend. And grateful to you for sharing it with me and helping me through the FOG. 

And if anybody else has some helpful tips on how to navigate this in-home separation (with her walking around happy as can be and humming the entire day), I’d greatly appreciate it. Paging the elders, paging the elders…

[uncleflo]

It looks like you’re in for at least 8 more years of this situation, given that your younger son may need help for college. How do you foresee this playing out in the future?

I also refuse to give up my connection to our 4-year old dog and three 3-year old cats. Maybe 16? 

[maxsterling]

I read though your post and first thought, "oh boy, indeed."   But then I thought more and realized your situation is not that much different in mine, although my W has not acted out with sex since we began our r/s.  The similarities are, my W has also been diagnosed BPD, accepted, and then refuted the diagnosis after subsequently being diagnosed CPSD.  She also tends to blame me for her bad behavior, saying that I have isolated her resulting in her behavior.  

I would suggest to you, and to myself to take a step back and look at the big picture as an outsider.  It's amazing what we have dealt with and put up with over the years when we would tell a friend or family member to "run" if they were in our situation.  Yet, here we are.  Think about what you want the rest of your life to be like, and how you will accomplish that.  I've been facing mid-life thoughts recently and now look back at the last 10 years and realize I have done little for myself, and unless something changes I will spend the next ten years doing little for myself and soon I will not have the ability to do things for myself.  

The reality is, barring a true miracle, your wife will never be any "better".  You can either learn to find a way to do what you want within her chaos or find another place to do what you want for yourself.  You can't wait for her.  

Recently, my W spent a week with the kids out of the house while I did home improvement projects.  I was on my own schedule and had nobody to answer to but me.  Despite the intense physical activity involved with the construction, I found many of my "ailments" lessened or went away.  I slept better, my chronic digestive issues were almost nonexistent, my tinnitus was less severe, and I had more energy.  That made me realize the stress and time involved in dealing with Ws moods is a significant negative contributor to my physical health, let alone my mental health.  After that, her threats of separation feel much less like threats, and instead I think more about potential benefits.  

That said, in my case, a "trial separation" would undoubtedly be "permanent" in my case.  I am guessing that may be true in your case, too.  If you work out the logistics as to the car and housing, you may never look back.  I'd think most about how you are going to take care of yourself and then work on those issues to give you more autonomy.  You may have to sacrifice, but the space gained may be more than enough to help you through it.  

[Cat Familiar]

To unpack complex situations such as yours, it’s helpful to start with the *givens*.

You do not want to lose your home base, your pets, your stable connection to your kids.

She is a serial cheater and does not think through the consequences of her behavior.

Having read so many similar stories, it seems that the person who is managing the household, who is the stable one, the one who pays the bills, and the one who provides a safe environment for the kids—that is usually the person who ends up with the house.

The partner who has affairs, who indulges in their whims, who is not financially responsible—that’s the one who often follows the affair partner du jour off to the next great adventure.

[Tangled mangled]

I’m really sorry you lived through what you lived through, my friend. And grateful to you for sharing it with me and helping me through the FOG. 

And if anybody else has some helpful tips on how to navigate this in-home separation (with her walking around happy as can be and humming the entire day), I’d greatly appreciate it. Paging the elders, paging the elders…

I really admire the way you are handling things at the moment.
I am female and almost 40 , just saying I am not an elder here but I worked the tight rope of in house separation for 9 months before moving from the family home with the boys .

My x was arrested for DV in June and was grooming my young sons to defiant and hostile towards me.

Separating the household:

I took on buying food and groceries for myself and the boys
I also stopped providing my housewifey caretaker services to him : laundry, shopping, and errands or doing his bidding

We lived like total strangers.
I kept the home clean for my children
I got rid of my car: it was in his name
The mortgage was in his name alone as I had removed my name years prior ( total blessing) . He went into mortgage arrears and didn’t care ( I’m still entitled to 50% of the equity in UK)
I shared the bills 50-50 even though he earned more
He caused so much chaos and I didn’t hesitate to involve all the services when he crossed the lines.

There was no communication between us just arguments so I made home aware that communication between us was going to be only via text or emails and for essential purposes only. I also defined what essential purposes were- childcare and bills.

Mine is very unreasonably and has high psychopathic traits so I had to be unreasonable sometimes too.

I sw**ear it was hell on Earth, I think I had horrible nightmares almost every night.
I finally left 4 months ago, moved over  300 miles away taking the children. He has refused to pay child support and is a total deadweight.

Hope some this helps, the elders will be able to share their 2 cents that’s for sure

[uncleflo]

I read though your post and first thought, "oh boy, indeed."   But then I thought more and realized your situation is not that much different in mine, although my W has not acted out with sex since we began our r/s.  The similarities are, my W has also been diagnosed BPD, accepted, and then refuted the diagnosis after subsequently being diagnosed CPSD.  She also tends to blame me for her bad behavior, saying that I have isolated her resulting in her behavior.

Looks like we're looking in a mirror at one another, eh? I'm so sorry that's the case though, as having our Ws turn everything upside down and weaponizing it all is maddeningly painful.

I would suggest to you, and to myself to take a step back and look at the big picture as an outsider.  It's amazing what we have dealt with and put up with over the years when we would tell a friend or family member to "run" if they were in our situation.  Yet, here we are.  Think about what you want the rest of your life to be like, and how you will accomplish that.  I've been facing mid-life thoughts recently and now look back at the last 10 years and realize I have done little for myself, and unless something changes I will spend the next ten years doing little for myself and soon I will not have the ability to do things for myself.

This is wonderful advice for all of us, Max, and beautifully stated. I've been realizing the same thing and have recently turned a big corner in that regard. After 20+ years of only using my Buddhist practice as my anchor, I went to a psychiatrist the other day and told her my story. She looked at me after, paused, and said, "You've been through and put up with a lot…" (and then she issued me a medical marijuana card for having PTSD.  ). It was incredibly validating to hear somebody, who recently treated my wife, say that. She was great about not wanting to play favorites and keeping space between the two (we don't have many options for therapy in our area) but I could tell she was surprised to hear some of the things I mentioned, as I have a sinking suspicion many of the actual, factual details were left out before.

The reality is, barring a true miracle, your wife will never be any "better".  You can either learn to find a way to do what you want within her chaos or find another place to do what you want for yourself.  You can't wait for her.

Amen.  

Recently, my W spent a week with the kids out of the house while I did home improvement projects.  I was on my own schedule and had nobody to answer to but me.  Despite the intense physical activity involved with the construction, I found many of my "ailments" lessened or went away.  I slept better, my chronic digestive issues were almost nonexistent, my tinnitus was less severe, and I had more energy.  That made me realize the stress and time involved in dealing with Ws moods is a significant negative contributor to my physical health, let alone my mental health.  After that, her threats of separation feel much less like threats, and instead I think more about potential benefits.

That is awesome. Truly. Be proud, my friend. Be so proud. On that note, I'm planning a 3-day trip to Quebec all by my lonesome!   

…you may never look back.

I think that might already be the case.  Thank you for all of your help and openness, Max.

Uncle N

[uncleflo]

I really admire the way you are handling things at the moment.

I admire you, Tangled. You have been through and put up with so much yourself, and I marvel at how you navigated the chaotic waters you have. I hope you know that you are a strong, incredible person to have handled all you needed to handle for your family. Your children are beyond lucky to have you as their anchor. 

Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. All my love to you. We all do this together, right?

Uncle N