Talking with loved one about BPD?

[usagi]

Hello,

I have recently learned that my loved one may be expressing some traits of BPD/NPD.  Learning about this has been very helpful for me to understand they why's behind her actions and also that I'm not alone in my experiences.  I feel like I have a shot at developing some skills to cope with these situations and help her get back to feeling regulated.

She doesn't know about BPD or that I've come to think that she may be experiencing this.  I'm thinking about talking with her about what I've learned.  My initial though was to find some sort of memoir of someone experiencing something similar.  She doesn't exhibit the more "conventional" BPD where suicidal thoughts and self harm are an issue.  She's very high functioning and would be considered "non-conventional" by the Stop Walking on Eggshells description.  I suspect she'd be very offended if I offered this up to her but wasn't sure what others have experienced.  Is this a losing proposition?  Are there any recommendations on this topic?  I'd imagine there are stories somewhere on the message board.  I'll look when I get a moment but would be interested to hear folks experiences.

Most of my experiences with my partner are very positive.  But the anger, black and white thinking, and insults are difficult to deal with.

Thanks for any advice you may be able to offer.

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[Pook075]

Welcome to the forums!  My wife was also "non conventional" and when I broached the subject (against the advice of everyone here) the relationship exploded.  It's not a good idea at all for you to bring this up- leave that for a mental health professional or doctor. 

With that said, you can talk to your primary care physician and ask for a recommendation for a counselor, but it would have to be "couples therapy" and not "diagnose my wife with BPD". 

Good luck to you and again, welcome!  Feel free to ask away and members will try to answer any questions you may have.  The sticky pages along the top are also invaluable sources of information.

[usagi]

Thanks for sharing Pook075.  It sounds like you had a very traumatic experience trying to speak with your wife about the possibility of her having BPD.

What you have said seems to agree with what was said in the "Stop Walking on Eggshells" book about non-conventionals.  But I wanted to see if anyone had any practical experience in this.  Does it actually work sometimes?  Sounds like the answer is most likely no.

I feel thankful that my therapist suggested this may be happening with her.  I felt like I was going crazy before with some of the behavior she'd exhibit.  Even though she hasn't been diagnosed by a professional this information has been a life saver for me.

I'm hopeful that I can keep working on the tools I need to keep our relationship somewhat healthy.  I suppose that's the next question.  What have folks experienced with long term relationships with non-conventional, undiagnosed BPD partners.

Thanks again for sharing.  Did that relationship end or were you able to salvage it in some way?

[once removed]

Does it actually work sometimes? 

has anyone ever broached the subject of bpd with a partner/spouse and had it not blow up, or even had them be receptive? sure. i can think of several times ive read such accounts here (which probably wouldnt total 1%).

I suspect she'd be very offended

but that really tells you all you need to know. you know her best.

bpd (and personality disorders in general) are highly stigmatized. lets say whether shes offended or receptive, she decides to look it up. the first thing shes going to see is all of the vitriol about it on the internet. it wont seem like a ticket to a better life.

also, imagine telling your wife that your therapist has introduced you to all of this. how do you think she (or anyone) would feel about your therapist, and your therapy?

lets say after all of that, shes still receptive.

that will change. with bpd, there are deep insecurities, self loathing, the fear that theyre "crazy", the fear of abandonment, and the fear that people will see through them.

telling her that you think she has a personality disorder will confirm those fears. she will ask herself why you are with her if you see her this way.

at this point, even if shes still receptive, it will alter the dynamics of your relationship. it will create a one up-one down situation, where shes the one with the problem, shes the one that needs to get better.

people with bpd traits (and anyone really) dont do very well in that role. she will resent you. she will say "im not the one with the problem, YOURE the one with the problem".

so in essence, you have virtually nonexistent odds that it would accomplish what you would hope, a near certainty that shed be pissed, and a relative likelihood that it could do irreparable harm.

how does she feel about therapy in general? how does she feel about your attendance?

[usagi]

That's a pretty thorough breakdown of what might happen and how she or anyone might respond to the suggestion that they have a personality disorder.  Thanks for that.

She's told me that she had some productive experiences with therapy in her early 20's.  She had an abusive father who was an alcoholic and likely a sociopath who took pleasure in tormenting his kids and wife.  He's now living on the streets somewhere in dire straits.  When my partner was living with some room mates during college they told her she would scream and thrash about during the night.  She realized then that she needed to do something about her trauma.  She found a therapist who helped her work through some of it.  She feels like she's basically dealt with her trauma since that time.

She also has an 11 year old son who's had his own behavioral struggles.  He's been through a few different schools at this point and all of them have decided they couldn't deal with his behavior.  In trying to work through this with him, she and her ex took him to several therapists in the area.  She had horrible experiences with all of them and has very little faith in the mental health system, at least in our area.

She and her ex also went to couples counseling and that also didn't go well.

However she does have a close female friend who is getting therapy for her own traumatic childhood and is getting benefit from it so perhaps her mind is changing on the subject.

She is very supportive of my therapy sessions.  As you noted earlier, she tends to view things as my problem and not hers.  So me getting help is just fine.

So, maybe I could convince her to see a therapist but super doubtful at this point.  Even if her opinion changes on the efficacy of said therapy she'd need a reason to go.  Sometimes she talks about dealing with her trauma so I think she knows it's still an issue but most of the time she's unwilling to take accountability.

I love her very much.  She's such a joy most of the time.  But sometime her behavior just drives me out of the house.  She's threatened to break up with me several times this year.  Every time she feels like the relationship is insecure she says she'll leave.  I can sort of understand this based on the BPD model.

I just want to try to find ways of continuing to be myself while helping her out.  I feel like I've started to learn those skills but have a long way to go.  The good times we have are v

[once removed]

I just want to try to find ways of continuing to be myself while helping her out. 

of course. you love your wife. you dont want her to suffer.

there really and truly are ways of helping her; they mainly come down to being a loving and supportive husband, and of course one who has bpd sensitivities in mind. by seeking support, therapy, insight, grounding, and actively trying to improve your role where possible, it is helping her, and helping your relationship.

i dont mean to be trite about it (being husband of the year wont cure anything obviously); the number one indicator of recovery from bpd is that persons support. https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

So, maybe I could convince her to see a therapist but super doubtful at this point.  Even if her opinion changes on the efficacy of said therapy she'd need a reason to go.  Sometimes she talks about dealing with her trauma so I think she knows it's still an issue but most of the time she's unwilling to take accountability.

the reason i asked is that sometimes when we see a therapist, it can motivate our loved ones (that, and with bpd comes an inherent distrust, so a therapist can be seen as a threat) to do the same. its good that shes supportive of you, that her own experience is positive, but yes, she probably sees no real reason to go at this time. would couples counseling or therapy be a possibility you think?

I feel like I've started to learn those skills but have a long way to go.

practice. practice with everyone you know. you can even practice with members here! practice, and they will become second nature. there is a lot to learn in general, and some of it awkward at first, but most of it are things you probably have a lot more experience with than you think.

[Pook075]

Thanks again for sharing.  Did that relationship end or were you able to salvage it in some way?

All communication ended after I brought up the subject.  I visited our doctor, talked out what happened, and the doc said it's textbook BPD behavior.  My kid also has it so it was an easy diagnosis.  When I called my wife about it, all she could reply was, "I'm not crazy...I'm not crazy!"  She cried her eyes out and I think she was filled with shame, guilt, and other emotions.

I kept saying, "You're not crazy, you just think differently.  There's nothing wrong with you."  But in her mind, she heard me say she was crazy and that ended everything.  We didn't talk for at least 5 months and even then, she was very hostile.

Now, I think my wife believed the diagnosis deep down.  She has seen that doctor a few times since then and she's only told me, "The doctor didn't change my medication."  So the message was received but it cost me the relationship...and for what?  She's still not in therapy or trying to get help, so all I did was finalize things by not keeping my mouth shut. 

If I would have let the doctor talk it out, then who knows what would have happened?  But I definitely should not have told her the way that I did.

[usagi]

That sounds really painful Pook075.  I'm sorry you had to experience that.

Once removed, I almost cried when I read your message.  It gives me hope that I can improve my relationship with my partner.  She means a lot to me.

She has an 11 year old boy and I'm worried about him too.  He has his own behavioral struggles.  I feel like they may be impacted by my partners behaviors.  I'm hoping that by helping her I can help him.

[EZEarache]

I tried to communicate this with my co-parent shortly after moving out, on a few different occasions. At the time, I was still optimistic that we could make things work, if she was able to see that I was not 100% of the issue. That there were cause and effect scenarios within our relationship, and that I was not always the cause, cause, cause. 

I wasn't specific about the condition or diagnosis that our couples therapist confirmed, but did not provide her.

I just said something along the lines of, "I think due to no fault of your own that you may have a deep rooted fear of abandonment." 

I was told, "I don't care what you think."

It's kind of comical to me more than two years later to think that I could have ever found a way to make her more self aware. Especially after the interaction I had with her, yesterday.

[usagi]

The lack of self awareness is hard for me to deal with.  Especially since I see her commenting about how others lack that skill.

At this point I'm certainly abandoning the idea of trying to talk to her about BPD.  I'm fairly certain that she wouldn't be interested in a couples counselor either.

My main focus now is to become as educated as I can and to help myself and her.  I would like to learn more about others experience with a long term relationship with someone with undiagnosed BPD.  Is it really possible?  My impression is that with a lot of hard work things can get better.