Looking for help to avoid getting caught up in Drama Triangle

[Chercher]

Hi everyone, I had posted back in April/May 2023 about my request for help coping with my undiagnosed husband with BPD, and his silent treatments and ultimatums. We have been married for almost 29 years, and these BPD traits have become more noticeable and challenging within the last 15 years. The support from this site, listening to several audiobooks, and finding a therapist who specializes in BPD and DBT were an enormous help and kept us in a more connected state for the  last 4 months.

I am reaching out again because I am really struggling with how to avoid getting caught up in the drama triangle of victim/persecutor/rescuer. I would like to learn how to avoid participating all together,  and what I might be able to specifically say when my husband initiates with projecting his feelings or responsibilities onto me.

I often have tried directly saying “Stop flipping things around. Stop projecting. Stop blaming”, and that feels honest and true, and makes me feel strong for calling him out on his behavior, but it usually just results in taking on the persecutor, victim or rescuer role eventually, and does not help lower the emotional temperature. Ignoring his text doesn’t feel right either.

At times, in the past, I have taken on a rescuer role, so I suspect that is the role he is still hoping I will take because his feelings are too uncomfortable for him, so he needs to get rid of them any way he can,  but I want to stop this nonsense, and learn what I can say to let him know I am not interested in participating. He sent me a text flipping everything around, taking on a total victim role. I have not responded to this yet and was hoping to get your advice and suggestions. We are currently out of the country, so my access to my therapist is limited right now, so I appreciate any advice or specific suggestions you all might have.

Thank you for listening/reading.

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[Matty]

Hi,
I am by no means an expert as many on this site are but I only recently started to enforce boundaries when it came to verbal abuse with my wife. As many said, it gets harder before it gets easier and thats exactly what has happened. I have often ponder the same question you are facing which appears to be: if you can set a boundary in terms of the blame game? I don’t know if you can or not but it may be more advisable to to use SET and other techniques for when they blame you for everything that has gone wrong in their life. I hope others will weight in based on their experiences as I do not have first hand experience with this yet, I only know that when I stopped the abuse that I saw less blame being attributed to me. 

[Chercher]

Thank you for responding Matty. I consider myself an empathetic and supportive person and throughout our marriage I have provided my husband a lot of emotional support, but I really struggle with initiating a SET statement while he is playing the whole victim role because I am trying not to fall into the rescuer/caretaking role. If anyone has any ideas on what I can try saying to avoid participation in the struggle, that would be very helpful.

I imagine that a SET statement should only be used once he is no longer dysregulated? It seems that once he takes on the whole victim role, and starts even raging and blaming, he is completely incapable of being reasonable or logical. And it would be pointless to expend any energy in this area.

He has been currently dysregulated for the last 5 days. I have been practicing a lot of self-care, doing as I please, and it is definitely true that not having much contact or interaction with him when he is so angry and so dysregulated, feels very soothing and nice, but I am truly amazed at his capacity to remain dysregulated for so long. And it still makes me feel mad that he is not more capable of communicating in a healthier way.  I have been doing my best at staying neutral, not chasing him to resolve things as I often have in the past, and not acting totally aloof either. But he seems to really need to be in a victim role and to remain angry. He needs it.

This morning, after several days of just allowing him to sit with his feelings while I was practicing self-care,  when he started going off again, I said in order for things to get better, we will need to stop making things worse (which I learned in “The High Conflict Couple”), but this only added fuel. I guess that tells me that he is still super dysregulated and incapable of hearing that as a “hey, let’s take a pause and try to change the direction we are headed”.

The worst part is that this all started because he was trying to make a left turn, and I saw a cyclist on the right, so I said “be careful with the biker”, and when he didn’t verbally acknowledge what I said or stop moving the car forward to make the left turn, I repeated myself “watch the biker”,  and he began to yell at me. And since that moment, he has refused to engage in any type of healthy exchange. He sees himself as a total victim and then tries to justify his anger and rage by blaming me for repeating myself about the biker.  He escalated so easily on his own that it is hard to express anything because he is so far from logical or reasonable.

I want to express that I am happy to listen to his frustrations and to hear him, as long as he isn’t yelling, blaming, insulting or calling me names? Is this a boundary that would be helpful to repeat each time he tries to attack, yell or blame me? Do you think it would be more effective by text? Or shall I just silently act upon this boundary by leaving the room? Right now, his communication in person and via text still  involves blaming, verbally attacking, insulting me and my whole family. It is like he has to push me down to desperately get rid of his responsibility for his behaviors.

Any other suggestions or advice from anyone about how to not fall into the rescuer or caretaking role or success stories for setting boundaries?


Thanks for your help.

[kells76]

Hi Chercher, good to hear from you again. Your question makes sense to me -- kind of like, okay, we can now see when there's a drama triangle in play, great, but what do we do then? It's certainly a big step from not seeing those dynamics to then seeing them, so how do we take the next step past identifying the dynamics, to exiting / declining to participate in the triangle?

I think you're on the right track to recognize that there are some states he's in that aren't receptive to much of anything. So, even though, for example, SET is a communication tool, it may not be for every situation. So some kind of "testing the waters" makes sense, and if you do a "testing the waters" move and notice that he isn't deescalating himself, that is important information.

I'm wondering if a move to "coaching" vs "rescuing" could be something to try. If you feel comfortable sharing more of a specific transcript/dialogue of when he invites you on the triangle, and "rescuing" moves you've done in the past, that could help. My guess, though, is that he makes a bid for you to save him from uncomfortable feelings? Is it something like:

Him: "They all hate me, I'm a piece of garbage, they think it's my fault, I messed up the job" [that is the bid/invitation for you to play your role]

You (rescuing): "Oh no babe, they don't hate you, you're actually great, they just don't understand you, you did really good with it"

Using that as an example for now, a change to a coaching stance might look like:

You: "Oh wow babe, that sounds _______ (whatever you can genuinely say -- devastating, overwhelming, difficult, unfair, etc). What do you think you'll do next?"

or

You: "That would suck to feel like they're judging you, ugh. How do you think you'll play it moving forward?"

So in a way, it's kind of SET-ish -- there is empathy in there. S and E might be more through your tone and body language vs specific statements. The T might again be less a statement of what you will or won't do, and instead is the question that puts some work back on him.

That coaching move could also be a "temperature check", because like you said, he isn't always in a place where his rational mind is functioning. So if you try coaching and he comes back with "that's not my problem, you should be figuring it out" or "you always take their side" or whatever, that may tell you that this is a time when there is not a "technique" you can do to "get him back down" -- in fact, that can tilt towards rescue-y stuff, where there's a belief that "if we can just use the right tool, we can talk them down". Ultimately the pwBPD may need time -- perhaps longer than other people -- to return to baseline and reregulate on his own. That may be where you need to, instead of coaching to not participate in the drama triangle, decline to be around at all for a time. Finding something else to do elsewhere could help both of you, because often pwBPD can be most triggered by closer relationships. It may be that once he escalates to a certain level, right now you aren't a person who can help him deescalate, just because of your intimacy.

So, if you dip a toe in the waters and coaching doesn't seem to be fruitful, you could try a no-explanation exit (by explanation, I mean of why what he's doing is contributing to you not being there -- he may not be able to process that connection): something like "I need to go change the laundry, I'll be back in 45 minutes" or "Hey babe, I'm taking the dog for a walk -- I have my phone on me and I'l be back home in an hour", etc.

If he's in a place where you are considering leaving the situation so that it doesn't escalate, then explaining to him "I won't listen to you blame me" is probably not going to land effectively. It may be more effective to do boundaries rather than to explain boundaries. It's possible that over time, he may put some pieces together and start to see that he is able to be with you when he is regulated, and you are not available to him to be with when he's not.

Not sure if you've tried those approaches before, and you know your H best, so it'd be interesting to hear your thoughts on both coaching vs rescuing, and on declining to stick around physically to be invited on the triangle.

[Smedley Butler]

i get confused with all of the various acronyms and things, and it all tends to go out the window in the heat of the moment anyways.  one acronym i do NOT forget is JADE.  and the way i avoid the drama triangle is that i DO NOT JADE.  my wife tries to initiate conflict, and i just tell her i'm not going to argue.  if relevant, i will firmly state my position, and then when she spirals into a flurry of attacking, accusing, and attempts to lure me in, i just repeat over and over that "i'm not going to argue".  this is like dumping a truckload of wet sand on a campfire.  it will put it right out.  eventually her emotional flare up in the moment will die down, and more often than not, the entire thing is forgotten and she acts like nothing ever happened. 

i'm not saying this is a way to move forward in a healthy relationship, because it's essentially shutting down communication, but i've found that communication with my wife if there is ANY kind of disagreement on my part is completely impossible.  so i just dont bother anymore. 

[Chercher]

Thank you Kells for your reply.

Yes, I have been trying to practice the “testing the waters” strategy a bit more lately in order to get more information about where my husband  is at in terms of his state of emotional regulation, and that has been very helpful in figuring out how I choose to respond next. Unfortunately, I am learning that he really struggles with de-escalating on his own.  He may have always needed more time than me to overcome a problem, but 15 years ago, this became even more exaggerated. And I have had to learn a lot to try to adjust as a result. Still trying to. It is really contrary to everything I know about healthy communication. Ugh.

In the past, before I understood or recognized any of my husband’s BPD traits, I would often chase him to talk through any problems that came up, to take turns listening to each other, owning our responsibilities, providing empathy, etc., applying what I understood to be healthy communication tools. And they might have worked with a non BPD person, but over time, I have come to recognize how ineffective those tools have become with my undiagnosed husband with BPD.

The scenario I described about me repeating my warning about being “careful with the biker” on the road might be a good place for me to provide some more detail, so that perhaps I can figure out how to avoid rescuing him or taking responsibility for his rage and expressions of anger or the blaming he does.

Essentially, the conflict begins for him when I repeat myself a second time to warn him about the biker. He begins to yell at me back that “he SEES the biker”.  “Ok, but why are you yelling at me? It is never okay to yell like that”. And with that, he begins to take on the victim role, attacking me for repeating myself, blaming me for him losing his cool with me, as if somehow my repeating myself about the biker, actually legitimately justifies his yelling at me. Now, mind you, I know I am not at all responsible for his feelings there. I also know that I think this issue is not worth fighting about or expending anymore energy.

Unfortunately, he doesn’t see it this way. I decide not to pay him much more attention on this, and to sit quietly for the rest of the car ride home because I recognize that saying anything would escalate things in that moment. I am trying to practice lowering the emotional temperature (feels a bit rescuer-ish and walking on eggshells-ish, but I know that it is also part of using my wise mind with him. He begins to ignore me, going about his evening.

A few hours later, we are with his brothers and their wives and I engage normally with him and with everyone, and it seems that maybe he has recognized on his own that staying angry and going on about me warning him twice about the biker is not worth it because he seems to be interacting with me and everyone fairly normally.

But nooo. The next morning, he starts up the whole silent treatment and continues playing the victim. I had clearly moved on, and the night before he seemed to have as well, but the appeal and pull he felt to playing the victim was too irresistible for him, so he continued with a mix of silent treatments and sending nasty raging texts and yelling, insulting and name calling. He was mad that I repeated my warning to him about the biker twice. So I felt like he was in some way expecting me to take responsibility for repeating myself, to in some way absolve him from feeling guilty for having yelled at me over it.

Today is maybe the 5th or 6th day and he keeps yelling, raging that I don’t listen to him, so that is why I feel it is important to communicate my boundary or personal limit with him.  I have read that sometimes, it can be verbally stated or sent by text, and that other times, you can just act upon the boundary (i.e., leave the room if he begins to yell, ignore any nasty raging texts). And here is where I struggle. If I want to avoid rescuing him from taking responsibility for his yelling, insulting, name calling, won’t ignoring his texts and leaving the room when he yells cause further escalation?, and if so, isn’t that contrary to wanting to try to lower the emotional temperature of a conflict?

Perhaps this is where you were suggesting to try doing boundaries instead of stating them in this case? And then just continue testing the waters? I have often read about needing to be the emotional leader in a relationship with someone with BPD, and yet that also makes me feel like I am doing too much “caretaking” or “rescuing”. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks Smedley - yes, to diffuse conflicts,  I have tried saying ” I have zero interest in arguing with you.” I think it works sometimes - I guess it depends on how dysregulated he might be when I say it. Maybe I’ll try texting it when he sends me one of his nasty texts.

Sometimes, I am really amazed at how patient and skilled we must be with our loved ones with BPD, and how so many of us remain so committed to wanting it to work.

[Smedley Butler]

i'll be completely honest with you, when my wife gives me unsolicited tips on driving and/or whatever else i happen to be doing, i generally ignore her and then if she keeps repeating it, i get annoyed, and i have been known to respond angrily like I SEE THE F'ING BIKER.  if this story happened just like you say it did, and i have no reason to believe otherwise, then i agree, his unchecked anger is over the top as a response, especially going on for days as it seems to be.  but i think you should consider the context a little bit as well and perhaps sometimes you're better off just not mentioning the biker. 

take that two cents for what it's worth.

[Chercher]

Today it might be him getting angry at me about warning him twice about the biker on the road, tomorrow it will be about getting angry and blaming me for our sons calling or texting me more than him, and the next time getting angry that I chose to open the windows to cool down the house.  I think you get the picture.

Small issues get blown up and remain blown up for extended periods of time.  And because his anger and disproportionate responses make him feel ashamed, it is so much easier for him to try to project his uncomfortable feelings onto me and to blame me and attack me to justify getting so over the top angry, rather than expressing and owning his frustrations and feelings for himself, and having a healthy conversation with me.

Hope we can get there, but in the meantime, I am trying to work on things like learning the best way to set boundaries and how to step out of the rescuer/caretaker role. These relationships are tough.

[Chercher]

It amazes me how not responding to my husband’s silent treatments or splitting, by not stepping in to rescue him, not accepting his blaming and projections, have now led him to amp up his anger toward me. I think this might be what Kells had once explained to me as a possible extinction burst.

He also told me he was going to stop taking his medication, and it seems like this could also be causing him to become more dysregulated.

Unfortunately, I have been here before, where he takes himself off his medication, almost as a way to punish me on some level, and things then get expectedly crazy and chaotic, and he starts to spiral even further downward.

I know that I cannot control how he chooses to act, so I am trying to focus on self-care right now. But it is so hard to know how to reply to him. Maybe part of my struggle is thinking that I can still influence or help him reduce his spiral downward. The urge to step in is so great. Plus, I feel conflicted because I feel that ignoring him will make him feel that I don’t care about being disconnected, and that is not at all how I feel.

We have been married for 29 years, and for the last 15 years, we have moved in and out of periods of beautiful connection, which probably explains why I hold onto this hope of getting back to this place of connection with him. But right now, I think he is saying hurtful things and throwing the divorce word out there to be manipulative; his need to project and blame me for his angry reactions is so messed up (seems so desperate and child-like). And I suppose it is all of that. Desperate and child-like. On some levels, I can use this experience to see the lengths to which he is willing to go to try to get me to step into his triangle, and by mindfully observing it, I can avoid getting pulled in.

I understand that going to these extremes is likely a part of his need to feel control over something because he is feeling so out of control, but I would like to try to understand how I might be able to apply the concept of radical acceptance here for myself, to help get more comfortable with his extreme behaviors, and to feel less overwhelmed, and less suffering when he goes to these extremes.

Can any of you relate? What strategies have helped you the most when you want to respond with something, but without taking on the role of rescuer or caretaker? How have you been able to use radical acceptance in your relationships?