Am I self-gaslighting? (On being a man and emotional abuse)

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I will try to keep this short and to-the-point because I know these trauma-infused posts can become novels quickly.

I am a 33yo man, I have had 5 long-term relationships. Some of them on-again-off-again. Often I would break things off due to infidelity then 'work on myself' (become more attractive) to 'win' back the cheating partner (don't worry, I know, I know) so that it could happen again.



Ultimately, all five of my relationships have ended in a discard. All of them play out similarly and fit the mold of fearful-avoidance / BPD / NPD discard (I won't speculate as to which).



I have spent much of my life blaming myself for these. Believing I wasn't good enough for these women (and I have done a lot of work on myself as a result). I have ADHD, however, so certain things about me are just immutable - I struggle with executive function and I sometimes require very clear communication. I am honest about these struggles going in to a relationship, but of course this just makes me quirky and different and it isn't until the devalue stage where it becomes a problem.



My issue I am having is that after my recent breakup with someone I had truly thought was different and who I was only just beginning to see a real future with (2 years, lived together, talking about kids) I am thinking about her narrative and the narrative of people in my life. I am also examining my parents' relationship (I believe my mother has BPD-in-remission, and my father is a rock but definitely on the autistic spectrum / a 'benevolent narcissist').



It is very difficult for me to believe that I could not have done anything different. That I couldn't have been more stoic and less reactive to her. Part of me wonders if this is just a part of the human mating dance that only causes issues when one person lacks self-respect. I hear stories and see friends' relationships play out in similar ways - The girl gets scared and runs, the guy doesn't react at all and just says "cya later then" and gets on with his life, then she comes back and is then forever committed.



This seems to be how my parents' relationship played out, more or less - My father was just my mom's friend until my mom left her fiance to start dating him. I imagine he was more or less the same as he has always been - invulnerable, stoic. A total rock.

I am not a rock. I can cognitively do rock-things, but I was bullied growing up. I have done a lot of work and I am stable in a relationship, not needy. But I am a vulnerable man who is not afraid of his feelings and I believed that this was what women valued -- It is what my partners have always claimed to value. I communicate well and I value my integrity, I am honest to a fault.


Why can't I shake the feeling that this is just... Normal? That there is a primitive biological urge to 'test' the parameters and stability of a relationship with someone and that I am failing unimaginably by being hurt when someone who told me last week how much they loved me rewrites our entire history to mean 'nothing to her'?


I am NC with the ex. After being blindsided I did not cry to her, but tried to focus on the practicalities of her imminent move. She called me cold. Eventually she did trigger me and I told her a few of the ways she had been emotionally abusive. She blocked me and we have not spoken since the move.



I have her blocked now on all social media (its all curated photos of how 'good' her life is, anyway). But, I creeped her recently created Spotify playlists yesterday and spent an afternoon trying to divine some narrative based on the lyrics of those songs. A few standouts include songs about a man not being 'strong enough' to love someone, or a song about a man ignoring his partner to play videogames (I never did this, i played videogames while she listened to podcasts - she was openly judgmental of me not having 'more interesting' hobbies).


Am I just self gaslighting here? It feels like society at large wants me to believe that I could have been everything to her if I was just more of an immovable object. If I had firmer boundaries and raised my voice so she knew the fighting voice in her head was wrong and committed fully to dissolving into my reality and sense of self.


I wonder if that's true? If that's what she really secretly wanted all along? To be absolved, to truly abandon herself for the version of her she created for me. And that I failed by not being strong enough to support that vision of her in perpetuity.


What I'm saying is that, as a leftist with feminist ideals this idea shakes me - Does our shift in culture towards more egalitarian relationships where partners do not play games with each others' hearts not match our ingrained biological programming? Is the human mating dance one that requires such a test?


I recognize that these are problematic notions to entertain, but I am experiencing a lot of cognitive dissonance lately as this break-up was extremely traumatic and came out of nowhere. Was I 'supposed' to just out-gaslight her into believing the lies she told me about how much she loved me were a greater truth than her own trauma?

[zippers_the_goat]

I will try to keep this short and to-the-point because I know these trauma-infused posts can become novels quickly.

I am a 33yo man, I have had 5 long-term relationships. Some of them on-again-off-again. Often I would break things off due to infidelity then 'work on myself' (become more attractive) to 'win' back the cheating partner (don't worry, I know, I know) so that it could happen again.



Ultimately, all five of my relationships have ended in a discard. All of them play out similarly and fit the mold of fearful-avoidance / BPD / NPD discard (I won't speculate as to which).



I have spent much of my life blaming myself for these. Believing I wasn't good enough for these women (and I have done a lot of work on myself as a result). I have ADHD, however, so certain things about me are just immutable - I struggle with executive function and I sometimes require very clear communication. I am honest about these struggles going in to a relationship, but of course this just makes me quirky and different and it isn't until the devalue stage where it becomes a problem.



My issue I am having is that after my recent breakup with someone I had truly thought was different and who I was only just beginning to see a real future with (2 years, lived together, talking about kids) I am thinking about her narrative and the narrative of people in my life. I am also examining my parents' relationship (I believe my mother has BPD-in-remission, and my father is a rock but definitely on the autistic spectrum / a 'benevolent narcissist').



It is very difficult for me to believe that I could not have done anything different. That I couldn't have been more stoic and less reactive to her. Part of me wonders if this is just a part of the human mating dance that only causes issues when one person lacks self-respect. I hear stories and see friends' relationships play out in similar ways - The girl gets scared and runs, the guy doesn't react at all and just says "cya later then" and gets on with his life, then she comes back and is then forever committed.



This seems to be how my parents' relationship played out, more or less - My father was just my mom's friend until my mom left her fiance to start dating him. I imagine he was more or less the same as he has always been - invulnerable, stoic. A total rock.

I am not a rock. I can cognitively do rock-things, but I was bullied growing up. I have done a lot of work and I am stable in a relationship, not needy. But I am a vulnerable man who is not afraid of his feelings and I believed that this was what women valued -- It is what my partners have always claimed to value. I communicate well and I value my integrity, I am honest to a fault.


Why can't I shake the feeling that this is just... Normal? That there is a primitive biological urge to 'test' the parameters and stability of a relationship with someone and that I am failing unimaginably by being hurt when someone who told me last week how much they loved me rewrites our entire history to mean 'nothing to her'?


I am NC with the ex. After being blindsided I did not cry to her, but tried to focus on the practicalities of her imminent move. She called me cold. Eventually she did trigger me and I told her a few of the ways she had been emotionally abusive. She blocked me and we have not spoken since the move.



I have her blocked now on all social media (its all curated photos of how 'good' her life is, anyway). But, I creeped her recently created Spotify playlists yesterday and spent an afternoon trying to divine some narrative based on the lyrics of those songs. A few standouts include songs about a man not being 'strong enough' to love someone, or a song about a man ignoring his partner to play videogames (I never did this, i played videogames while she listened to podcasts - she was openly judgmental of me not having 'more interesting' hobbies).


Am I just self gaslighting here? It feels like society at large wants me to believe that I could have been everything to her if I was just more of an immovable object. If I had firmer boundaries and raised my voice so she knew the fighting voice in her head was wrong and committed fully to dissolving into my reality and sense of self.


I wonder if that's true? If that's what she really secretly wanted all along? To be absolved, to truly abandon herself for the version of her she created for me. And that I failed by not being strong enough to support that vision of her in perpetuity.


What I'm saying is that, as a leftist with feminist ideals this idea shakes me - Does our shift in culture towards more egalitarian relationships where partners do not play games with each others' hearts not match our ingrained biological programming? Is the human mating dance one that requires such a test?


I recognize that these are problematic notions to entertain, but I am experiencing a lot of cognitive dissonance lately as this break-up was extremely traumatic and came out of nowhere. Was I 'supposed' to just out-gaslight her into believing the lies she told me about how much she loved me were a greater truth than her own trauma?

[Cat Familiar]

If indeed your recent partner is someone with BPD, then no matter how *perfect* you were in the relationship, there were bound to be problems, not of your own making. It’s valuable for us to self examine our part in failed relationships, but often we take on the lion’s share of the blame when our partners have a personality disorder.

That you’ve experienced similar endings to previous relationships and that you suspect your mother has BPD, is not surprising. It is very common for members here to have had a parent or sibling with BPD. We are accustomed to behaviors that would send people, who come from emotionally healthy homes, running for the nearest exit. To us, those behaviors seem like *family*. I speak from the experience of marrying two BPD husbands and possibly one previous boyfriend who had BPD. Now that I think about it, nearly all my previous relationships involved a personality disorder or more than one. Frankly I found emotionally healthy men boring.

That would be an interesting avenue to explore in therapy in order to break the pattern. It may be that you tend to choose people who are not in your best interests.

[Biggus]

Hi Zippers!

Felt a lot like I was reading about myself. Kinda similar family dynamics when I was a kid. My dad has passed, but he never really turned against me, just showed love and kindness, so guess he was benevolent without the narcissist part. Mom, a totally different case. I also have ADHD, often I'm sort of weirdly happy and even proud of having it, even though learning to live with it is indeed a life long journey. My problem in choosing partners has been an inability to recognize red flags. In relationships, two problems: I didn't recognize my own feelings, and even if I did I didn't pay much attention to them.

It's one thing to recognize the effect of your childhood and the lessons learned from your parents in your relationships, and another to figure out how ADHD plays in them. It's like, at least for me, my mind has several tracks with similar volume playing in together most of the time when I'm not concentrated on work or something, so it's easy to let someone else take charge and especially responsibility, also it's easier to avoid listening to the most uncomfortable tunes. There's a certain passivity to it. "I should really clean the house, but think I'll just watch that suddenly very important documentary I read about a week ago. I should really break up with her, but if I'll just stick in it another week and do something nice maybe it'll turn out better." It's not only people with ADHD who choose to live in their self made traps and ignore their feelings, but it plays a part in it.

As a leftist you probably know the concept of trickle-down economy, and that it doesn't really work. The problem with it that the most needy are on top of "the pyramid of vessels", and then the wealth doesn't really trickle down. It's kind of similar with relationships. It's like PwBPDs and PwNPDs are the really needy ones, wanting someone else to fill their bottomless vessels, with very limited ability to trickle down love or care or respect after some initial advertising phase. You can't really fill someone else's empty vessel, instead, this may sounds selfish, you should put your vessel on top of the pyramid. First love yourself, when your vessel is filled enough, it will start to trickle down. When you priotize your own needs and feelings, and pay attention to them, you'll start to understand others better. In a healthy relationship (been in one!) your partner's foremost wish is probably you to be who you are and stay real first to yourself and then to her.

Does lyrics of some songs reflect what the society (or the whole womanhood) expects? Probably not. You could also listen to songs like Alice Cooper's "Poison" or Nick Cave's "When I First Came to Town", chances are those are about relationships with PwBPD. Btw you could try survivor music. Like Nina Simone's "Ain't Got No, I Got Life".

You asked "Was I 'supposed' to just out-gaslight her into believing the lies she told me about how much she loved me were a greater truth than her own trauma?"

As Cat Familiar pointed out, your ex has a personality disorder. You are still kind of staying in the care-taking mode she had you in, wondering how you failed. The truth is you can't out-anything her in her game, and do you even want to play her game? If you don't want to be an immovable object, then it's not you. The challenge is to find someone who appreciates you as you are.

Everyone tests their partner, consciously or subconsciously, just to see who they are and how they can deal with these issues. People like us, we reactively love to shine in these tests, while in turn we accept all kinds of results from our partner, often without blinking an eye. When a healthy relationship progresses, this testing becomes unnecessary as the partner has already proved himself/herself enough. My experience is, a PwBPD doesn't trust the results, and keeps on testing forever, harder and harder, until you finally fail. So don't blame yourself, instead learn to accept who you are, and trust yourself.