When to share the BPD diagnosis?

[InTheChaos]

Hey there, thanks for all who can offer advice or those who are in the same situation, hope this helps.

So for 5 months, my wife had me convinced I was the problem. About two months ago, our couples therapist told me that my spouse has BPD, wanted me to read walking on eggshells while she figured out how to help treat it, and told me not to tell my spouse until we had a plan. We waited a while for her to regulate, but ran out of time. She started pursuing divorce and ended up pushing the therapist away. So she still has no idea she has BPD.

She is still escalating, lying to everyone and sending me false emails that are implying I'm being a bad role model for the kiddo despite the fact I've had zero interaction with him. (He's her kid from another marriage and requested I stop spending time with him.)

My question is, at what point in time do I say "hey, listen, you've been diagnosed with BPD. You've played every card out of the BPD handbook. You have every right to pursue divorce but I'm tired of the crap."  -- obviously with more grace and sensitivity but I'm just so exhausted. I'm not sure how to play this.

[kells76]

Hi InTheChaos;

Did the T give you any more thoughts about why she recommended waiting and forming a plan?

What would you ideally hope would happen, if you were to tell your W?

Is that the same as or different from the likely outcome (that is, if you think about and compare how you want things to go, with how things would probably go)?

[ForeverDad]

If you told her then it's very likely she would be in Denial and even Blame Shift the fault entirely on you.

So she quit the marriage counseling sessions and now the counselor can't tell her?

Now that a divorce has begun, do you want to stop it?  Court is the "referee" to ensure the marriage is unwound in a somewhat fair process, though the fairness aspect is somewhat debatable.

Evidently your spouse is not willing to respond to counseling or even proceed any further with the process.  What are your reasons to want to stay in the marriage?

If a person doesn't want to improve, you can't force it.  Maybe there's a benefit to providing a diagnostic name, a professional's conclusion or diagnosis, but resistance is likely.

Do you two share any children?  If so, then during the divorce you could ask for a Custody Evaluator who would do an in-depth study of the family dynamics and any concerning issues with parenting.  Many counselors refuse to testify in court, not wanting to face lawsuits or complaints to their licensing boards.  But they will discuss the issues they came across in a less formal way so the Custody Evaluator is informed.

[InTheChaos]

Did the T give you any more thoughts about why she recommended waiting and forming a plan?

What would you ideally hope would happen, if you were to tell your W?

Yeah, so my spouse is the unconventional type. The one that runs and denies shes the problem. I have no intent on staying married, but i would hope shed fact check and back off a little. Im tired of the threats over delusions.

So she quit the marriage counseling sessions and now the counselor can't tell her?

Now that a divorce has begun, do you want to stop it?  Court is the "referee" to ensure the marriage is unwound in a somewhat fair process, though the fairness aspect is somewhat debatable.

If a person doesn't want to improve, you can't force it.  Maybe there's a benefit to providing a diagnostic name, a professional's conclusion or diagnosis, but resistance is likely.

Yeah, idk. I'm asking her to check in with the therapist cause I didn't want to be the one to tell her but it seems unlikely.

I don't want to stop the divorce. I want to call call out and put a name to her behaviors rather than just continuing to take it. I'm expecting resistance.

No, no shared kids. It's probably the one thing we've got going for us.

[Agentpickle2]

Do you want a messy divorce? because thats how you get a messy divorce. I've seen hundreds and hundreds of couples and when one spouse feels the need to force a diagnosis on another person, it never ends well.

There is no need for this, especially if youre in a no-fault state. Cut ties peacefully and move on. Especially If there is a child involved, it would be good for you to try to be as amicable as possible for the child's sake as well as yours. It sounds like you want to do this to get closure but I promise you this is NOT how you do that.  Happy to answer any questions you have though OP-- feel free to PM.

[ForeverDad]

I don't specifically remember anyone doing this, but if you feel you must inform her, once the divorce is final and some additional time has passed, maybe anonymously mail her a copy of a book describing BPD from somewhere postmarked on the other side of the country.  And express surprise/denial if she asks you.

You mean well, but there are so many ways your good intentions could backfire.

Cautions: (1) This site is reserved for reasonably normal persons facing BPD issues, do NOT tell her about our safe place. (2) Usually the best outcome of a BPD-related divorce is that all contact ends unless it's about parenting issues. Sorry, there no way to remain in the ex's "friend zone" or the endless up/down cycles will resume again.

[ForeverDad]

She is still escalating, lying to everyone and sending me false emails that are implying I'm being a bad role model for the kiddo despite the fact I've had zero interaction with him. (He's her kid from another marriage and requested I stop spending time with him.)

Don't engage with her about this.  For one thing, it's virtually impossible to prove a negative. For another, this is called negative engagement. Replying back and forth on that topic just prolongs the debate. The reality is that it's her child and her legal responsibility, not yours.

[Agentpickle2]

You mean well, but there are so many ways your good intentions could backfire.

This. You want to divorce, she wants to divorce, so why create additional unnecessary conflict. re-reading OP's post I get the sense that you just want to feel better about your decisions so you think telling her that you think she has BPD will do that. But that's gasoline in a divorce, man.

[livethequestions]

Unfortunately, there probably is no good time to share that diagnosis with her. I understand wanting to, though; in any other situation, if you know something about someone, and they don't, wouldn't you want to tell them? It feels like the right, honest thing to do.

The problem is, she doesn't live in quite the same reality non-BPDs do. She lives in the reality that she has needed to craft for herself in order to stay alive, and that reality will likely never include her having BPD, no matter who tells her, when, or how.

I have held off on telling my spouse they have BPD. Once, they did sincerely ask me if I thought they had BPD, and I said yes. They have since decided BPD does not actually exist.

It is not your job to share this diagnosis with her; she won't be able to hear it coming from you. Maybe someday, she will find out about her diagnosis some other way, and be in a place where she can accept that. She might even reach out to you and ask you what you think. But that's probably the only scenario where you could tell her and not be shooting yourself in the foot.

[ForeverDad]

It is not your job to share this diagnosis with her; she won't be able to hear it coming from you. Maybe someday, she will find out about her diagnosis some other way, and be in a place where she can accept that.

Years ago I read a comment by another member and that explanation opened my eyes. In short, BPD is a disorder impacting close relationships the most. Others on the periphery may notice something "off" but it's not a big thing in their lives and they don't spend a lot of private time where the pwBPD feels free to "let it all hang out". But we did get the full brunt of the poor behaviors, and you do too.

Why couldn't we help? Because we shared too much history with them and they couldn't get past their perceived emotional baggage of the dysfunctional relationship in order to truly listen.

It's not for nothing that all the professionals recommend intensive therapy by therapists who have no emotional attachment to their patients.

This reminds me of a post I made recently.  This woman, after years of therapy, did recover from BPD but she emphasized her therapist always maintained a professional separation, no emotional strings.

Have you read Get Me Out of Here — My Recovery from Borderline Personality Disorder by Rachel Reiland?  It's a paperback account by someone recovered from BPD.  It was exceedingly tough for her, but it turned out well for her and her family.

What helped so much was that her therapist drew a strong line/boundary concerning their interactions.  Her therapist remained absolutely neutral emotionally, not even touching.  (That's why you bear so much of the brunt of her behaviors, because your spouse can't get past the past emotional baggage of the years of close relationship with you to really listen to you.)

That book ended on a high note.  Only when her therapy was completed, she got to hug her therapist for the very first and only time.

[livednlearned]

I have no intent on staying married, but i would hope shed fact check and back off a little. Im tired of the threats over delusions.

The delusions you describe sounds like severe splitting. Is that how your MC characterizes them?

A person struggling with splitting isn't someone who will understand fact checking the way you do.

If she isn't motivated to get better, and you plan to get divorced, what do you see happening next?

Knowing her as well as you do, what do you anticipate her response would be if you said she had BPD?

 

[InTheChaos]

I appreciate all the kind responses and support. I had my fingers crossed and hoped there would be some sort of miracle story where things got better if it was brought to light but I'll take everyone's word for it. I know I'm rationalizing something that is irrational and I guess that would be for my own closure. What's wild is my wife is very familiar with the book Walking on Eggshells because her mom has NPD and was instructed to read it. She's also a pharmacist who's spent a lot of her time working within the mental health wing of the hospital.

I still wrestle with the divorce part, as it's not something I want emotionally, I just see it as a means to an end to the various forms of abuse we all go through with stuff like this. It's crushing me right now. :/

How were you guys able to quit seeing your pwBPD as your loved one in need of help to they're a problem and need to go?

[InTheChaos]

This. You want to divorce, she wants to divorce, so why create additional unnecessary conflict? re-reading OP's post I get the sense that you just want to feel better about your decisions so you think telling her that you think she has BPD will do that. But that's gasoline in a divorce, man.

Yeah, I can see how that would make things worse. Ultimately, my heart still wants to try to get to a healthy place and stay married. Just things are getting out of control and I find a divorce to be the safest option sometimes. But then I tell myself I'm just looking for a way to quit and then I find some way to get connected again emotionally. So it's something I'm battling internally right now.

[InTheChaos]

Hi InTheChaos;

Did the T give you any more thoughts about why she recommended waiting and forming a plan?

What would you ideally hope would happen, if you were to tell your W?

Is that the same as or different from the likely outcome (that is, if you think about and compare how you want things to go, with how things would probably go)?

Yeah, so the therapist wanted me very well-versed in the playbooks of BPD. The way she was talking, she already had a plan and I think was just encouraging me to see this as an endurance race type thing and to take my time with it.

I would hope that being able to have a conversation about what's happening would facilitate clearing the air of the distortion campaigns she's been on. Which might help bring back into perspective of what we're guilty or not guilty of.

If I twist her arm and threaten her, maybe but then she does have a reason to be angry with me. Ultimately, I guess I'm still looking for some way to reconciliation.

[ForeverDad]

I still wrestle with the divorce part, as it's not something I want emotionally, I just see it as a means to an end to the various forms of abuse we all go through with stuff like this. It's crushing me right now. :/

We were all in your shoes before we managed to end the relationship.  Some have asked, how is it we were the ones that married and not someone else?  Well, for some of us the reality was that others were the first to marry/partner the spouse, and they divorced or left.  For others of us, we didn't recognize the signs as they worsened.  Then we were trapped between feeling a desire to keep trying and a desperate need to escape.

How were you guys able to quit seeing your pwBPD as your loved one in need of help to they're a problem and need to go?

At some point self-preservation kicks in.  (Hopefully.)  When I was beat upon, cursed, disparaged, our child manipulated, I came to realize it would never get better, only worse.  I had to do what I had to do.

I didn't want to be emotionally distant but that's what I had to do to survive.

If you've noticed, long ago I stopped calling her my wife or ex-wife.  I use the generic, distanced spouse or ex-spouse.  The respectful term 'wife' no longer applied to the person she became.

[livednlearned]

How were you guys able to quit seeing your pwBPD as your loved one in need of help to they're a problem and need to go?

I got really honest with myself. I wasn't fixing anything. If anything, things were getting worse.

Close, interpersonal relationships can trigger BPD behaviors.

I began to see that my very presence was triggering his instability.

[Agentpickle2]

Just food for thought.

BPD is also one of those disorders that is easy to blame for behaviors. There's been people in my life who I thought had BPD but didn't-- and visa versa.Not saying this to hint at invalidating your experience, but if she that familiar with BPD and mental health that might cause pause to consider whether or not she actually has it.

edited to say: we dont know your circumstances OP or all the rationale behind it, but I appreciated someone else asking me to also look within myself and how I see what is happening to me and if it's really what is happening vs. something I want to tag with a name so it's easier to cope. just as a personal example my firs wife met with our therapist privately and they decided I must have BPD. I was livid but I get it, like therapists can only go off of what they know, so if your sharing stuff that COULD fall in a camp, naturally they might think a condition's to blame. TUrns out she had narcasisstic personalty disorder.

[InTheChaos]

we dont know your circumstances OP or all the rationale behind it, but I appreciated someone else asking me to also look within myself.

For sure, I have a few buddies who are helping keep me grounded but I always appreciate this question as well. Within therapy, I did my best to focus on my own actions, not my spouse's. I'd ask for additional homework or things to focus on outside of therapy and through that, the therapist started to see that I was trying everything I could. Not that I was perfect, but it was clear to the therapist something else was going on with my spouse so she had some individual sessions, and on the final one, she revealed to me the diagnosis.

I got really honest with myself. I wasn't fixing anything. If anything, things were getting worse.

Close, interpersonal relationships can trigger BPD behaviors.

I began to see that my very presence was triggering his instability.

I appreciate your honesty and vulnerability. Thats hard. How are you doing now?

I didn't want to be emotionally distant but that's what I had to do to survive.

If you've noticed, long ago I stopped calling her my wife or ex-wife.  I use the generic, distanced spouse or ex-spouse.  The respectful term 'wife' no longer applied to the person she became.

This hits close to home. I appreciate your time. I need to figure out a way to distance myself better cause I still keep falling into the trap of "I can fix it" even though I know I can't.