Dealing with disparagement

[EyesUp]

I've recently posted about ongoing conflicts with my uBPDxw.

The past month has been extra challenging, in part due to my own misstep with D15...

In short, while D15 was at overnight camp, I discovered sustained and persistent disparagement from my X to D15 - about me - while reviewing D15's phone.  X's comments included "he's a narcissist" and "he's an asshole" and "everything he says is bullPLEASE READ" (followed by "delete this").  I don't think I need to go into detail, other than to say that this has gone on for over two years.  I saved the messages on my computer.

When D15 returned from camp, she saw the file on my computer and confronted me.  I had intended to address after she restarted school and reengaged with her therapist, but my own sloppy file handling accelerated the time table and also tipped my hand to my X, via D15.

I assured D15 that she's not in trouble, that I'm not concerned about how she uses her phone, and I reminded her that both of her parents have access to her phone and can review from time to time (which X actually acknowledged to me separately, in email).

Now, I have two things I need to address:

First, I need to repair/rebuild trust with D15 who feels, well, violated.  Notably, she has not demonstrated much in the way of remorse for her participation in this communication with her mom. Just the opposite:  She's declared that she doesn't want to be at my house, and that she's only happy at her mom's, etc.

In parallel, I need to address the pattern of disparagement with my X.  I'm mindful of Warshak's mantra in Divorce Poison: "take action".  That said, I feel that options are not great... 

I don't relish the idea of filing a motion of contempt, although my atty thinks it's an unusually clear case and our judge would not be amused.  I am concerned about engaging a litigious processes that will likely increase rather than decrease conflict with my X (and kids, esp. D15), even if these processes might provide some protection to my kids and to me in the short term.  e.g., if we're assigned a GAL, I have no doubt that D15 will express a clear preference to live with X, and nothing will truly change - no matter what the GAL's findings and judge's orders might be. If I'm awarded primary parent status in the short term, X and likely D15 will feel validated (I'm seeking control over everyone) and they will rage against me in the background.  And if the motion amounts to a "speeding ticket" in which the disparagement is simply added to the file for future reference, I'll be incurring legal fees and emotional turmoil in the short term for uncertain future use - while engaging a process that typically leads to further legal conflict...

On the other hand, I don't think there is a basis to assume that my X would participate in a non-litigious process in a fair, honest, or effective way.  e.g., if I invite her to participate in some family therapy process, I expect that she will either say no - or she will not participate in a productive way.  It could be good to at least attempt to do this, potentially to demonstrate to the judge that an attempt has been made to seek a non-litigious solution - even if my X doesn't appreciate the gesture...

Another approach with low chance of success could be to engage X's parents, who certainly care about their daughter and their grandkids.  Of course I know that blood is thicker than water, so I would hope that they would, on some level, help to influence a shift in my X's behavior (again, low chance of success) - and possibly appreciate that I made some effort to avoid litigation - and be better positioned to understand what is happening with the kids.  As I type this I feel horribly naive, and right back in the "try anything" mindset I had prior to divorce...

At this point, I've spoken with D15's therapist to provide a heads-up, and I'm exploring consultations with various family services for advice and alternatives...

I wonder if anyone here can point to another option?  Or to a decent outcome from a non-litigious process with a disordered X spouse?

At the moment, X is sending messages accusing me of predatory behavior and telling me to stop monitoring D15's phone... I feel like I need to respond in some way.  Ironically, D15 is right in the middle of a parental conflict that I hoped to avoid, or at least attempt to insulate from her - and I feel responsible because I bungled the process.

Is there something I'm not seeing here?  As always, thanks for the sounding board and perspective...

[kells76]

Weird question, but are you at pretty much exactly 50/50 parenting time? Or do you have more?

While I wouldn't recommend doing exactly the following, it's an out of the box idea for something to try, that may spark some other ideas.

Basically, I get what you're saying, that you can't "consequence" D15 and Mom into D15 spending appropriate time with you.

I wonder if there's a weird "reward" way to set things up.

If you do have more time with the kids, and if D15 is saying with her words "I want to be with Mom"...

what if you (or, more likely, the T) could set it up somehow, D15 will get "rewarded" with what she asserts she wants (more time with Mom) if she shows you her phone messages with Mom voluntarily and the messages follow the parenting plan (i.e. no disparagement). Could even throw in there "and D15 must show messages from Dad to Mom" -- as I'm assuming you aren't sending D15 anything that you thought Mom wasn't looking at already 

I get that the sticky wicket is that this may just push actual messaging underground, while leaving "fake" messaging that looks good up top.

I do wonder though if Mom would cut back on disparaging messages if D15 was like "quit it, I have to show these to Dad in order to get a movie date with you".

Like I said, I wouldn't necessarily recommend implementing this exact plan. But I think I've heard something like it before in a Dr. Craig Childress article (I can't find it at the moment, but it might have a title like ABA intervention).

Maybe this can raise some questions of reframing actions away from "how can we force Mom to stop disparagement and make D15 come here" and towards "if D15 asserts she wants XYZ, how can we tie Mom stopping doing ABC to D15 getting XYZ".

Really tricky stuff. I suspect D15's T might be able to listen to this sort of idea and let you know if it's feasible in your situation or not.

[kells76]

Or -- again, not to recommend this specific idea, more to try to generate some brainstorming --

some agreement like "In order for Dad to agree to not monitor App XYZ, the parenting time schedule as written will be followed. As soon as the PT schedule isn't followed, then Dad resumes monitoring App XYZ".

Trying to think about some way to either neutralize the phone's role in all this 

or jiu-jitsu it, where for D15 to get what she says she wants, you also get something you want.

[EyesUp]

or jiu-jitsu it, where for D15 to get what she says she wants, you also get something you want.

Thanks, Kells.

I actually did something like this to get through vacation:  Agreed that D15 could have a couple of nights with mom as long as she agreed to come on the trip with me and her sisters first...  this worked.  In the process, I told her that I wished I had spent more 1:1 time with her in the past couple of years, and I was glad that she'd get some 1:1 time with mom. I will have 1:1 time with D15 once the normal school schedule resumes next week, so all good there...

That said, keeping time together is not my priority at the moment - we do have 50/50 parenting time and decision making, and I don't see any change of circumstances other than obvious evidence of X's disparagement... The new school year is about to begin, and there has been no discussion about changes on X's side (I expect she may move at some point), so I expect that we'll continue with status quo in the near term.

The real issue is the continuing pattern of disparagement and the alienation behaviors I clearly see in D15 - and how this could trickle down to D12 and D8.  I'd like to find a way to disrupt the pattern sooner rather than later.

I recognize that part of the solution could be to provide D15 with some tools or resources that help her develop some critical reasoning skills / self-sufficiency to see through X's behaviors.  That's a slow roll.  In parallel, I'd like to burst X's "entitlement bubble" or at least neutralize some of her toxic behaviors with D15 - who is a pleaser, and no doubt feels empowered and valued when her mom shares grown up topics.

So there's food for thought in your quid-pro-quo idea re: D15 - thank you.  Still looking for something to disrupt uBPDxw's smear campaign. Maybe a sternly worded letter from my atty, that stops short of filing an actual motion. Or a registered letter from me that alludes to some of the documentation I now have of the most egregious behavior, along with a concise request to desist...

Still thinking...

[ForeverDad]

Have you tried to reason something like this with D15?

"Have I asked you to delete my texts? ___  That's because I try to generally tell you positive and upbuilding things, more or less, or important principled instructions, sometimes just light-hearted moments.
Then notice what your mother did, disparaged me repeatedly then asked you to hide what she said by deleting it.  Was that a nice thing?  A positive thing?  Or was it her perceptions and her perspectives?  Were they helpful? ___
So do you see why monitoring communications is necessary?  Do you see a difference between my parenting and her version?  In a few years you'll be an adult, don't you feel my involvement would help you be a better person overall?
I try to be a solutions-oriented dad.  What can we do to find a solution agreeable to both of us?  What do you think about it?"

Yes, this is my awkward way to reason, perhaps too logical when logic is not the only way but what would resonate with her and her sense of justice?

[EyesUp]

@DD - thanks.  I've broached the topic somewhat indirectly, explicitly trying to avoid anything that could be framed by D15 or X as disparagement of X.  I'd like to avoid getting stuck in a feedback loop.

e.g. I did mention to D15 that I took a parenting class as I went through the D process, and one of the things that I learned was to never say anything bad about the other parent, no matter what (dot dot dot).

nonetheless, there has been blowback from X, so I know that D15 has reported back to her mom - and that there is a significant signal to noise problem in that particular relay, i.e., D15 may or may not reliably report anything I say - and then X may or may not further distort whatever she hears from D15.

as I type this, D15 is texting me from her mom's house for help with a streaming video app and shopping requests - so while she may say she doesn't want anything to do with me, at least some of her behavior tells a different story.

in parallel, X sends nastygrams accusing me of doing what she does, and ordering me not to monitor D15's phone. accusations are confessions, rinse and repeat...

my focus is my X's behavior - not D15's.  attempting to create some guardrails or constraints to diffuse or contain the pattern of disparagement is the goal.  perhaps impossible.  probably need to revisit Divorce Poison, again...

[Notwendy]

While the title of this thread is about disrespect for you, I'd like to reframe this for your D. This is triangulation- and parentification of your D. This is less about you than your X putting your D in the position of emotional caretaker. In Karpman triangle dynamics, your X is taking Victim position, your D as Rescuer, and they align against you as persecutor.

My parents didn't divorce but at 15 my BPD mother was confiding in me and saying things about my father to me. This didn't change how I felt about him. Looking back though, it was inappropriate and indicates poor boundaries on the part of BPD mother.

Why would a teen go along with this? It's a sense of privilege and power to be treated like an adult in the family- but it's not good for the teen. Teens should have a certain amount of autonomy and responsibility, but putting them in a position of emotional caretaker and confidant to a disordered parent isn't good for them.

What is going on here is less about you than about the dynamics of your X confiding in your D to meet her own emotional needs, and your D feeling a sense of privilege and power from it. And teens - who are seeking autonomy- go along with it as well as it's attention from a parent - which all kids want.

So how is it that this didn't "turn me against" my father? Because of our own relationship. This isn't to say there weren't family issues, or that all was smooth sailing but by age 15, Dad had done a significant part of the parenting and there was a parental bond. Things are shifting though- rather than parents dictating the relationship- it becomes more about building one with your soon to be an adult child. In a short time, your D will be a legal adult and then she will choose who she spends her time with but she still needs you, you are her Dad.

Understandably, you feel attacked. The lack of remorse from your D that you think you should have seen isn't there because, it's not her responsibility to take a stand to not engage in these discussions with mother. She's been enlisted into a role that isn't appropriate for a teen- but it's her path to approval and attention from her BPD mother. When we are kids in these family dynamics- it's the only "normal" we know.

For my BPD mother, she sees things in victim perspective. The position of privilege and acceptance from her is to align with her as rescuer- to be "on her side". Someone, something, is in persecutor position. This meets her emotional needs. When I was BPD mother's confidant, it was a  way to get positive attention from her- to be painted white- to feel I was able to "help BPD mother".

When your D says she'd rather be at her mother's house- have you asked her why? For me, I'd have chosen to stay with my father, due to my mother's behavior. However, my sibling is her favorite golden child. They were more enmeshed and this may be the situation with your D. I think it would be a good idea for you and your D to talk about this and ask her why she prefers her mother's house. With teens, it could be that they have more freedom and privilege at one parent's house- not that this is appropriate. She may feel more "special" there but this isn't necessarily a good thing. Kids need their parents to be parents, not peers and you may have appropriate boundaries for a teen. How would she know the difference? She doesn't, she's 15.

I don't think it's possible to control what goes on at your X's house or what your X says to your D. I think you are correct in that if you go into fight mode, this conversation will just go on in a more secretive manner. She's with her mother half the time and her mother can say what she wants.

My father didn't do this- he didn't speak about my mother like that and I think it's wise that you stick to your own principles with her. It's also good that you have rules and boundaries with teens- and teens might get angry about that- but teens need boundaries and your time with them may be where your kids have appropriate ones. But your relationship is changing as she matures. Where can you meet her where she is- without being her peer?

Consider this too- your D can express anger at you. She can say things like "she'd rather be with Mom". Maybe it's also because she isn't afraid to express anger at you. We were afraid to say things like that to BPD mother.

What your X says about you has influence, but with 50% of the time with your kids, your  relationship with them is a defense.

[EyesUp]

Why would a teen go along with this? It's a sense of privilege and power to be treated like an adult in the family- but it's not good for the teen. Teens should have a certain amount of autonomy and responsibility, but putting them in a position of emotional caretaker and confidant to a disordered parent isn't good for them.

What is going on here is less about you than about the dynamics of your X confiding in your D to meet her own emotional needs, and your D feeling a sense of privilege and power from it. And teens - who are seeking autonomy- go along with it as well as it's attention from a parent - which all kids want.

When your D says she'd rather be at her mother's house- have you asked her why?

Consider this too- your D can express anger at you. She can say things like "she'd rather be with Mom". Maybe it's also because she isn't afraid to express anger at you. We were afraid to say things like that to BPD mother.

NotWendy - I feel seen...

Why does D15 go along with this?  Alignment with her mom significantly predates the divorce.  Long ago, my X would plan a tea party birthday for D15 in which I would stay home with the younger kids - at the time, it seemed like just another way we would divide and conquer, but in retrospect it's one of many examples where X positioned herself as the primary parent to D15. Another important one was coordination with D15's first therapist about 7 years ago (she's on #3 now, and I'm involved).  During the divorce process, X confided in D15 (then D12-13) many times.  It often came back to me directly via D15, or her therapist, or via my atty (who conferenced with X's atty), etc.  I chose to not engage, and told D15 that I would not put her in the middle - this gave X a wide lane.

Another instance of trauma:  while still married, but dealing with X's infidelity, X proposed that we ask the wife of her affair partner, and mother of D8's friend, to host a Halloween party.  I refused to go along with this, X had one of the worst episodes of rage, and I called 911.  This was less than a month after X threatened self-harm during a therapy session, and the therapist called 911.  Both times, X was taken to the hospital for observation.  Both times released with my consent.  The first time happened while the kids were out of the house.  The second time, the kids were home, and D15 immediately aligned with mom - "why did you call the police on mom?"  I suspect that since then, X may have spun a story about how I am a manipulator, I set her up, etc. etc. - My X has massive resentment and I continue to hear these themes. I have not revisited with D15. My long view is:  Police reports are public records, and the domestic officers (detective and social worker) that responded both times were initially focused on me, but quickly refocused on my X and their observations and concerns were well  noted in their reports. Nonetheless, I can't imagine how exposure to this information would be helpful to D15 - who has general anxiety, and who could not possibly be expected to reconcile this sort of information with the narrative that X has been feeding her for some time.   

100% yes, X uses D15 (and everyone else) for her own emotional needs.  While I expect that in the long run, D15 will eventually come around or at least have a more balanced view, in the meantime the conflict is super high, and D15 behaves as though she has, in fact, turned against me.  e.g., she has stated that she doesn't like "how you treat me or my mom" (yes, I note the grouping).  She has stated that my house (marital home in which D has a much larger room) "feels haunted" and that her room X's "is perfect and exactly how I want it" (in fairness, I have not agreed to completely repaint and refurnish D15's room and I have no idea what the arrangement is at X's).  And she has stated that if I get a dog (prior dog went with X), she will never come to my house, because I abuse animals - this was one of X's more outlandish claims around the time we separated - pure projection because she gave away one of our two dogs, allegedly because the dog nipped a guest, but without any attempt at intervention with a trainer - and without any concern from the guest who apologized to me profusely for startling the dog... accusations are confessions.  In the moment, I felt like fighting this would get spun around as not prioritizing the safety and interests of the children. I suspect X's real motive was finding a place to move to would be easier with one dog rather than two, and that surrendering one to me would leave a clear point of attachment for the kids...  I could go on.

It is 100% clear that D15 feels safe with me and will say things to me that she would never say to her mom.  We've touched on this in the past, and D15 is quick to say "I respect mom and mom respects me" - in order to justify the dismissive and often rude way in which speaks to me - so it feels like we're outside the zone of reasonable dialog at the moment.

Thanks for the reminder about the triangle.  I certainly have been cast as the persecutor, and D15 is unwittingly aligned with victim mom/X.  D15's anxiety, identified by her first therapist 6+ years ago, makes her a natural participant in the triangle dynamic.

Next up:  Studying how to step out of the triangle.  Candidly, I hoped that grey rocking my X would go a long way - but with 2-3 transitions with the kids each week, and many topics to coordinate, we still have regular contact which is probably triggering for my X - and not particularly fun for me, either.  I routinely ignore inflammatory emails and texts, or respond only with flat and concise comments that explicitly offer solution-oriented action.  e.g., "I understand that we need to adjust schedule.  Does one of these options work: a, b, c?"  However the conflict does not stop...

Looking further ahead, I am concerned about our three daughters and the consequences of all this.

[ForeverDad]

While the title of this thread is about disrespect for you, I'd like to reframe this for your D. This is triangulation- and parentification of your D. This is less about you than your X putting your D in the position of emotional caretaker. In Karpman triangle dynamics, your X is taking Victim position, your D as Rescuer, and they align against you as persecutor.

...She may feel more "special" there but this isn't necessarily a good thing. Kids need their parents to be parents, not peers and you may have appropriate boundaries for a teen. How would she know the difference? She doesn't, she's 15.

Notwendy makes an important observation that your daughter is probably oblivious to, it's gone on that long, perhaps her whole life.  So one informative session may not be enough, periodically circle around so she's familiar with the reality, though not harping on it.

Consider this too- your D can express anger at you. She can say things like "she'd rather be with Mom". Maybe it's also because she isn't afraid to express anger at you. We were afraid to say things like that to BPD mother.

This is a point made in Richard Warshak's Divorce Poison.  He related how a 5 year old whispered in her grandmother's ear "I love you" then pulled away and yelled "I hate you!" to appease her mother.  That was the best the little child could do at that age.  Not precisely the case with D15, but there is an applicable overlap.

I will add that with my son I started with alternate weekends at age 3 but by the time he was nearly 12 I was both legal guardian and had majority time during the school year.  He is grown and still lives with me, yet even until now his mother has such a hold that he feels he has to speak with her daily or else she gets triggered and blaming, even at him not me.  She's done that for other reasons too - and I've pointed this out to him now and then - but he still does the daily long calls.  I'm retired now and health is a problem these days so I haven't been more proactive.  And too, as an adult it's his life now.

[Notwendy]

Yes- this is a pattern for my BPD mother. I even observed her trying to do this with my kids when they became old enough to be in that position. I immediately had boundaries with this. In this situation, they didn't live with my BPD mother so it was possible. The kids felt uncomfortable when she did this too. Mostly my kids have not been alone with her. Even when we call - it's on speaker phone. She does not like this as she wants to be one on one with them.

This isn't just with children. The same triangle- with me in persecutor position goes on with her extended family and even with my father--- about me. This is how she relates to people and it's Karpman triangle dynamics.

Problem is, with 50% time with their mother, you don't have control. For me, my sibling was placed in the position of favorite child and is more enmeshed with BPD mother. I think her confiding in me was my chance to get positive attention from her. It was very enticing to a teen to be in this special position as mother's confidant. As an adult, I can see that what she told me was inappropriate but as a teen we don't know that.

My Golden Child sibling's childhood memories with BPD mother are different from mine. They were more compatible. She treated us differently. It's possible that your D15 feels special in this situation, even if it's not good for her. I don't think there's much you can do about what happens at her mother's house.

I think grey rock with the drama is the better way to go. Offense would play into the drama. Your kids also learn from what they see- your own behavior. If you want a dog, then get one. It's your house and your dog. Your D and your ex don't get to decide if you get a dog or not. You don't have to explain. A happy and healthy dog is evidence you don't abuse it.

I don't suggest you spoil a child but a little indulgence - if she really wants her room painted- why not? If she feels her room isn't a reflection of her- let her pick out decorations or new bedding.  Watch a teen movie on Netflix with her if she's up for that. Join her in her world some if you can.

You probably will need to work at building a relationship with her. If she has college plans, at some point you will be able to visit her, take her to dinner and out to get things she might need for school. This relationship continues into her adulthood.

[EyesUp]

Thanks, all.

It's been a challenging time since my last post, as kids transition back to school and our regular schedule.

I think I stepped in it again with D15.  When she was at my house last weekend, I felt it was important to directly address the situation and privately told her that while I understand how she feels about "spying" that we do have a device agreement that permits mom and dad to know passwords monitor devices, and that we ultimately need to look forward to the time when she becomes fully independent and has full control of her own device and work on mutual trust to get there.

To which she responded "mom doesn't agree with that" - and sensing a moment for radical candor, I replied "I've heard mom take two different positions on this, so I'll need to review with mom" - at which point D15 screamed "you can't make me hate mom" and stormed away.

Very telling.

The next day she asked for help buying T. Swift movie tickets (and I gladly complied), but she's diffident and avoidant and generally monosyllabic or hostile the rest of the time.

I've spoken with D15's therapist (as well as D12's therapist who may pick up on collateral resonance), and I also plan to speak with her guidance counselor at school, mainly to provide a high level overview of the mood at home and open a line of dialog.   

In parallel, I've considered Warshak's "take action" mantra vs. the various options.  I don't love the idea of pursuing a high-conflict legal approach, and I don't love the super slow high-road approach to college and adulthood either.

I will have at least one hour alone with D15 each week when I take her to after school activities this fall, and I hope to use that time for positive engagement and interaction - not for confrontation.

That leaves my uBPDxw as the other major variable...  my feeling is that without intervention, the disparagement will continue.  I have little reason to believe that a direct discussion will be helpful (or even possible), and I recognize that any approach has a relatively low chance of positive outcome.  But here's one I've been mulling and would appreciate feedback on.

The idea is to send a registered letter to uBPDxw as follows:

"Dear uBPDxw,

I reviewed your August x email (“There is a subtle way to keep an eye on the kids phone usage”) and your August xx email (“stop stalking, reading, and taking pictures of D15's text messages”)…

I am trying to reconcile these messages. As a reminder, it is our shared responsibility to monitor our kids’ device use. We jointly developed a device agreement for D15 in 2019, and updated it to address social media use in 2022. The agreement clearly establishes that parents have passwords and access to devices.

While reviewing D15's device in July, I discovered concerning activity:

•   D15 secretly recorded conversations and shared them with a family member.
•   The family member did not tell D15 that such activity was unethical or illegal.
•   The family member subsequently asked D15 to delete certain messages.
•   The family member also communicates with our daughter in a way that has been overtly and persistently prejudicial and disparaging toward me over a period of at least two years.

In view of your August 24 email (“When children hear that the other parent is a piece of crap, they internalize that to mean that they themselves are 50 percent crap. I don’t want my children to think they are 50 percent crap”), I’m sure you share my concerns about this activity.

My strong preference is to seek some alignment so that we can both support D15, and I’d like to explore how you and I might work together to address this situation. Are you available to review these concerns together with a family therapist, or is there another approach you would propose?

Thank you,

EyesUp"


The idea is to send a registered letter because it automatically becomes strong documentation of the situation - as well as my attempt to provide a solution - in a single page. Easily scanned by a judge and entered to evidence.

I mostly avoid "you" statements by referring to a "family member" instead of directly to uBPDxw - but also provide more information about what I've observed from D15's phone - uBPDxw doesn't have this detail yet. I also mention 2 years. She will be (or at least should be) horrified by the extent of the potential exposure...

I think the chance of her accepting the invitation to see a family therapist is low.

I would expect that the letter would serve to both enrage her - but also put her on notice. And that the threat of possible exposure - within the family and/or legally - might be enough to nudge her in a new direction. She cannot possibly disparage me any more than she already does with D15, so my hope is that she might tone it down a bit.

Citing her own accusations of disparagement (accusations are confessions) should help focus the issue.

As a sidenote, she cc:d her boyfriend on the Aug xx email, so it's also a courtesy to send this directly to her via mail and not to expose these details to him via reply email. It's also none of his business, from my POV - his presence on the email is just triangulation. 

There's much, much more in those text messages that could come forward if she chooses to escalate.  Which she might do - her pattern is sometimes to pursue a nuclear meltdown or mutually assured destruction rather than accept defeat, except she typically suffers in her own fallout while others (including me) move to a new latitude.

If that happened, then perhaps we would end up in front of the judge, where I present the letter among other things as part of a motion of contempt (our agreement has an explicit non-disparagement clause), while uBPDxw will most likely emote and go into victim mode.  I think the worst case scenario would be having a GAL assigned to D15 and possibly the other kids - and I don't think would work out well for uBPDxw.

Given the potential for escalation with D15, and the already harmful environment with D12 and D8, what do I have to lose?

I don't think that this is a one-and-done strategy.  Rather, I see it as a potential lever to reframe the current dynamic and turn it in a less harmful direction.

[Notwendy]

There's a book I read when my kids were teens: "Get Out of My Life, but First Could You Drive Me & Cheryl to the Mall: A Parent's Guide to the New Teenager, Revised and Updated". Which helped me to understand why teens on one hand will be insulting and angry and still needy at the same time. They may want total freedom and still need rules and boundaries. I think you did the right thing by having the rules about the phone- on the other hand, you D reacted like a teen that age does.

It takes a strong sense of self to withstand these teen retorts. Understood- we don't allow teens to be disrespectful. It's not OK for them to say these things. But these emotional and hormonal teens sometimes lose their composure too- and the question is- how much do we discipline and how much do we account for their situation.

I can see how someone with BPD might not be able to manage these teen outbursts and so may be too permissive or also go too much to the other direction.

"Get out of my life (phone) Dad,  but first, can you help me get Taylor Swift movie tickets?"

If you really were an ogre, she'd not have known you'd help her get the tickets. Seems you got some brownie points there.