So how do you deal with the anger?

[RandomDude]

So after my recent post and noticing one is not supposed to use "bad" words, I wonder what is the recommended way to deal with the anger that arises in me just by being repeatedly given the BPD treatment over a long time.

Just reading some of the other forum's titles "Bettering a Relationship" makes me giggle, there's no imaginable universe, where I'd want to keep contact to an abusive BPD. Alas that is not my choice to make, I have responsibility for a child and so I'm forced to have a person in my life that is constantly hurting me. I can just dispose any sense of fairness when dealing with UBPD mom it seems.

How do I not hurt myself with the anger that the constant "stuff" (hello modbot) she throws at me causes?

"She's seriously ill" somehow doesn't cut it for me, I think she is as responsible for her behavior as everyone else.

Should I seek outlets for my anger like attending a boxing class? Where to put all that hate that's building up in me after each insane episode?

[RandomDude]

Also when dealing with her, expressing any of my own feelings is off the table while she in in free association mode gaslighting me. This feels incredible unfair and I feel like a pressure cooker.

[RandomDude]

I found one article which seems to address resentment after failed relationships, but I can't relate to this, as there never was a relationship with UBPD mom, just a one night stand. I had a two month affair with a diagnosed BPD before, which hurt a lot initially but didn't bother me any more quickly.

In my situation now it's not like I'm living in the past but I get presented fresh material by UBPD mom on a regular basis. Also if there had at least been some romance initially I could see how one could draw some sympathy from it, but in my case I was set on avoiding her before I even knew I was going to father a child.

Also letting it go isn't as easy because it's not really about me which I could shrug off I think, but about my son, so I'm very invested emotionally because it's about him and in addition I have to cope with observing her damaging him and the guilt she induces in me. It makes me sick.

[RandomDude]

Sometimes there's even the thought that it might feel good to revenge-date some random BPD just to watch them going crazy like they do while I'm emotionally dead inside and totally not invested anyways.

[kells76]

Hey RandomDude,

Anger happens a lot when we are stuck in a seemingly inescapable toxic situation -- I'd say that coparenting with a pwBPD fits the bill.

My H's kids' mom has many BPD traits, and her current H has many NPD traits. Even though the divorce was over a decade ago, Mom and Stepdad have not changed -- yet as the kids are still minors, we have had to stay in contact with Mom/Stepdad. It is the most stressful thing I have ever done.

I get angry about how Mom both "hoards" her parenting and abdicates it at the same time. For example, right now, because Stepdad has a girlfriend (yes, you read that correctly), Mom is now seeking emotional support by paying lots of attention to SD15. SD15 did not get as much attention in the past, so while she is now getting the Mom she always wanted, it isn't about what's good for the kids, it's about how SD15 can meet Mom's needs.

I get angry about how there's no way to get across to her. She won't hear me and she definitely won't hear H.

I get angry watching the long term impact on the kids. They both have taken their mom's side and seen H as "the problem" for many years (though SD17 may be coming around). It hurts kids to be forced to see one parent as "all bad", and I get angry when I am "forced" to see them be hurt but not know they've been hurt.

RandomDude, the anger is real. I get angry when I feel powerless to help the kids, and when I feel trapped because I am forced to stay in contact with Mom and Stepdad. For you, it sounds like you feel angry when she flings crap at you, when you see her damaging your son, and when the unfair "rules for you but not me" attitude shows up (always).

I think you're on the right track to find multiple ways to vent the anger -- posting here can help, especially using these boards not just as "vent" boards but also to dig in to the feelings behind the anger. Boxing sounds smart -- a physical outlet. Swear at the punching bag.

Do you have anyone in real life that you can talk to about the anger? For me, part of the reason I chose my specific counselor was because she already knew of Mom and Stepdad (among other reasons). Hearing her say "Yes, I see it too" about the behaviors has been really validating for me -- I wonder if sometimes we get angry because it seems like nobody else sees. Who in your life -- friend, family member, therapist -- feels like someone who could be validating and supportive for you?

Journaling can be a good place to get the intense language on paper, too. Not sure if you've tried it -- consider really not censoring on that page and writing whatever words you want, if you need a space in life to let loose with the profanity.

One more thought. The anger that drifts towards revenge fantasy -- I get it, I've wanted horrible things for Mom and Stepdad. Sooner or later when PDs are involved, they may sabotage their own lives, they don't need your help. That energy, that focus -- if it's on revenge against her, imagine that that is her stealing your focus off of your son and on to her. The best "revenge" is turning that energy back towards your precious son and his needs.

Keep talking here -- we're listening. And fill us in on how your son does with his first day of school. I bet you're so proud of him.

[RandomDude]

Thanks!

Yes, I guess the biggest advantage of someone listening is, that it puts the gaslighting in perspective, I'm too quick to put blame on myself, even when it makes no sense at all and as you said someone else seeing it is what helps. Usually people I talk to about these things just give advice and I have to explicitly ask if they agree that certain things were very bad style by UBPD and then the usual answer is "of course, but that was clear anyways, wasn't it?"

My partner used to listen to me a lot, but that also took a toll on our relationship. It was just too much and all-consuming for too many years even though it wasn't really about the anger but about how to skillfully deal with situations when someone doesn't play by the rules and has no ethics.

Counseling might be a good idea, regardless if validation will help with the anger or not.

Concerning revenge I have zero interest to hurt UBPD poor single parent mom, I swallowed my anger so many times already and also I see how miserable she is, that I just despise her and feel disgusted by her. If I could, ghosting her would be the most I would do and even that I probably wouldn't do but just reduce contact. In contrast the fantasy of dating some other BPP and dropping them like a hot potato after a firm talk when their usual stuff comes up seems congruent to what I feel.

Still not sure about what to do with my anger. I had the feeling I can let it go, but that probably just was that there was not much opportunity for conflict in the last 3 years and now that I just moved close to her again it seems not much has changed with her and I can swallow a boatload of her evil stuff every now and then again. It sucks. I don't want this in my life.

[RandomDude]

Just have someone as much engaged as UBPD mom, but without her power, and then just telling them to go their way as they wish (modbot really takes the fun out of this) that's a pretty attractive revenge fantasy for me.

[ForeverDad]

I was under the impression that the mother of my child has a rather difficult personality even before the pregnancy happened but still was completely taken off guard by the chaos that manifested itself in my life since then.

Many here would agree with your observation that looking from the outside in (such as your one night stand) is vastly different than looking from the inside out (long term forced contact).

I had been married to my spouse for over a decade yet life was "manageable" though growing ever more problematic.  It was when I got the idea of having a child where all aspects of our lives blew up in the next years.  I imagined she could see an innocent child enjoying discovering life but instead in her mind she relived her childhood fears.  Having a child was a huge trigger/trauma to her and it quickly got worse.  I was clueless and didn't know that having a child doesn't fix serious mental health issues, it only makes dealing with it all vastly for difficult.

My local domestic court followed its "standard" temp orders where the mother was always the default preferred parent.  This despite her initially facing charges of Threat of DV.  Apparently adult misbehavior doesn't impact a parent's perceived ability to parent?

So though I started temp orders with no custody and only alternate weekends and an evening in between, after the divorce was final two years later (he was in kindergarten by then) I walked out with equal status as parent.  We were still in and out of family court for another few years due to her antics and continuing disparagement.  Apparently courts are reluctant to make big changes, so in increments I moved up to full guardianship (legal custody) and later to majority time during the school year.  By then he was a tween and though he's aged out of the system (now adult) he still lives with me.

How to deal with the long term stress?  I'm not a cursing person - the modbot usually only gets triggered by the more aggressive curse words - nor am I a marathon runner or firewood chopper.  So I dream every year of escaping out West to the Rockies or North Rim of the Grand Canyon, or other National Parks.  I don't like the hot arid climes where most National Park vistas are, but over the years I've found niches and canyons where there are relaxing views, water and trees.  Here's a sampling.
Vacations in the mountains
Birdfeeder views
Romance movies or novels

[RandomDude]

Yes, concerning outside-in view we just met a few times for restaurant dinner and she did what she usually does for winning over people (just telling them what they want to hear) and I didn't recognize it because it was the first time it happened to me. Then the condom failed and also the emergency pill. She has bulimia, is a habitual liar and on the few dates she praised me to high heavens and mentioned she desperately wants to start a family. So I'm pretty sure she just puked out the emergency pill    Curse word my life.

It's amazing to read your son now lives with you, even though it seemingly took a long time. I have hopes that once my son reaches an age where whining and being cuddled by mom gets out of fashion he might value me as a safe haven and resource. Still a long way to go I guess.

The recommendation for escapes into nature is spot on, if there's one thing I'm missing in the city I'm forced to live in right now, then it's the countryside. (The links you added didn't work for me though).

[livednlearned]

Do you think there might be some grief driving your anger?

Grief can feel more vulnerable. For some people anger is a safer feeling.

[RandomDude]

Overall for living her life instead of my own? Yes, there's definitely grief, but I usually let that go and make the best of it.

The anger mostly comes up during her manipulative and destructive episodes. If anything I'd say it's driven by a feeling of powerlessness.

[RandomDude]

To be more precise it builds up during episodes of conflict that might last from one or two days to a few weeks, where I'm the recipient of her emails which are full of accusations, half-truths and commands.

During these times I respond in a reasonable and useful way which takes lots of time and energy and also means totally neglecting my emotions and not issuing valid criticism myself. I think it's this feeling of being stifled while she goes at me like a chaotic chain of toxic firecrackers which makes me so angry.

[RandomDude]

I have people to talk to openly during these times, but for example in family counseling the motto is "no one is wrong here, we're just different" So at the end, the whole space that's connected to her isn't touched by even a shred of truth.

That also creates a feeling of powerlessness in me.

[kells76]

The anger mostly comes up during her manipulative and destructive episodes. If anything I'd say it's driven by a feeling of powerlessness.

To be more precise it builds up during episodes of conflict that might last from one or two days to a few weeks, where I'm the recipient of her emails which are full of accusations, half-truths and commands.

During these times I respond in a reasonable and useful way which takes lots of time and energy and also means totally neglecting my emotions and not issuing valid criticism myself. I think it's this feeling of being stifled while she goes at me like a chaotic chain of toxic firecrackers which makes me so angry.

Yes, 100%. You are not alone in experiencing feeling powerless when facing the manipulative words and actions of a pwBPD.

I had times in my life where I would wake up angry with the kids' mom and stepdad, bike to work angry, and be distractedly angry for hours.

While I still cope with anger and other emotions now, it is not as pervasive. Part of that was learning the tools here. If I had to pick one that was a game changer it would be BIFF communications. Second would be radical acceptance and third would be "don't JADE". That combination allowed me and my H to cope with their dysfunction in a way that mostly defanged it -- without having to get any agreement or cooperation from them.

...

Am I reading correctly that you are still doing family counseling... with her?

[RandomDude]

Thanks for your reply!

Yes, I can also confirm that BIFF works, I implemented it for a long time, but missed the friendly part, so it came off as a little stern I think, typical German here . That's the one thing where the "no one's wrong, just different" approach from the counseling actually helped a lot. Even if it's just make-believe it's like the backdrop which allows me to be friendly despite her stuff and she seems to take it at face value.

Adding Friendly to my BIF, and acting like a big immovable rock that is mildly friendly and optimistic, seems to successfully suppress escalating communication. Still that's also where the stiffled feeling comes into play, it seems being mildly friendly cannot be combined with honest feedback at all.

Also thank you for your other two recommendations, I'll definitely check them out throughly!

Also yes, we're attending an institutional state-run counseling together here in Germany. The personell seems to be properly educated and professional. That is, if she manages to come, which might happen every second time or so. Also the more conflict and unreliability there is, the more they stretch out available appointments, so there's maybe 2 or max 3 appointments per year and maybe additional the same number of appointments that she'll cancel last second especially when she's in a phase where she forces things like holiday plans on me.

This is problematic, because this way the counseling is never available for finding solutions for a conflict that is still hot and I expect to be forced to go to court at some point.

[livednlearned]

in family counseling the motto is "no one is wrong here, we're just different"

This would make me nutsto hear someone say this while I'm dealing with an ex in a BPD dysregulation, with my child in the crosshairs.

With my n/BPDx, when we were coparenting I had a trusted friend read his emails first. She then paraphrased. If it was a request, she would write, "He wants to know if you can take son this weekend."

We then had a court-ordered parenting coordinator assigned and our communications were monitored. It didn't stop the firebombing but it did bring in a third-party professional who refused to be bullied.

If you can figure out a way to tune out the vitriol, it's worth every penny.

By accident I came across an old email from my ex accusing me of something so odd and far-fetched I couldn't even make sense of what the crime actually was. It was odd to note how it generated no reaction, though at the time these emails once tied me in knots.

I have the fortune of being rid of him entirely. Our son is a young adult and wants nothing to do with his dad, a choice he worked out with his therapist.

It does end 

[RandomDude]

This would make me nuts to hear someone say this while I'm dealing with an ex in a BPD dysregulation, with my child in the crosshairs.

It does!

Unfortunately going nuts is not a choice. In Germany, custody laws are stuck in the previous millennium and only slowly catching up with other countries. If I'd go to court there's a significant enough chance I'd end up with having my son over only every second weekend, even more so when the other parent is an experienced manipulator. Being a male also wouldn't exactly help me in court, even though that's a taboo topic.

Currently she seems interested to have S7 with me a bit more, so that she has more free time and for now I think that has a better expectancy than going to court in Germany. Which means currently I'm putting my money on her grace when it comes to parenting time, which in turn means I need the counseling to facilitate the small improvement of the schedule and I also cannot cut her off like it seems you did. I'd love to do it immediately though. The counselor is well aware of this dynamic it seems and also that she'll immediately leave if she was criticized, so thats that.

Also what she does is way below a threshold where a court would act upon it. For that there would have to be very concrete dangers for the child, otherwise they interpret it as just the parents trying to blame each other.

At least that's how I see my current situation, but there might be other aspects I missed, I'd be interested to learn about them.

[ForeverDad]

I don't recall whether you have a custody and parenting schedule order?  If you do, what is it like and how long has it been since you tried to improve your status and its terms?

I must admit I was a bit aggressive but at least my lawyer held me back on the lesser infractions.  Even so, at first the court tried to look at the events as though it wasn't my ex's fault.  As LnL is known to say, even when you get a contempt of court victory, court initially looks at them as mere parking tickets and at first doesn't look behind the causes of the infractions.  Here were my first two after the final decree.

I'm wondering whether some of your anger or frustration is due to feeling unable to challenge a poor order and haven't sought ways to get a "less bad" order?

I can't vouch for what the court may do.  When I first filed contempt of court petitions court either looked as though "why can these two parents get along" or it went super-fair and bent over backwards for some way to let the mother off the hook.

I too filed a few "parking tickets" (contempt motions).  I was so surprised that what seemed clear to me got sidelined by my ex or the court used it's own version of common sense.

Example 1:  I filed for some issue.  Well, my cell phone had died the Friday before our court hearing because of dampness on a canoe outing, so I left a greeting on the cell phone to call my house number instead until I got it replaced on Wednesday, the day before my hearing.  Ex left angry messages she wanted to speak to her son yet never called the house phone.

I recall back in 2009 when the magistrate said, "No time is left for this hearing but I'll fix ex's complaint now {she couldn't reach son during prior weekend, my cell had died but my house phone worked fine}.  Phone calls must occur every 8:00-8:30 pm."  Well, that short circuited many group activities, movies at theaters, games at parks, etc. We lived with that for 4 years until another magistrate decided that was too easy to use as a control weapon.

Example 2:  I filed that ex had skipped town with son without any vacation notice.  They were states away before I found out.  Well, the final decree had just been issued.  Court ruled against me stating the order was too new to allow compliance by advance notice?  (Edit: It ruled ex had an "inabilty to comply".)  But ex hadn't given me any notice.  Court also ignored that she didn't comply with the ended divorce temp order, presumably court policy is to ignore any ended order?  Two orders without compliance yet I had no basis to complain?

The next time I filed for custody and majority time in a Change of Circumstances petition.  It was granted to move forward and a Guardian ad Litem (GAL - child's lawyer) was chosen.

Eventually though, as in my case after the first few years, the court should be able to see which parent is the problem and which parent is the one seeking solutions.  As if.

[livednlearned]

Another way to deal with the anger is to learn as much as you can about narcissistic family systems and BPD parenting behaviors. The more you understand the conditions under which your son is being raised, the better able you are to offset the damage and abuse.

There is no question your son's mother does things and says things to S7 that will severely compromise his ability to develop emotional resilience.

But in many ways you're lucky. Your son is young.

I didn't learn about BPD and narcissistic family systems until my son was 11 or so.

We all have different circumstances but many of the characteristics of our exes and the environment our kids experience are the same.

The research often says a child needs one sympathetic witness to be able to develop emotional resilience. I grew up in a narcissistic family system so I had to learn what emotional resilience even was. In my clunky dumb way I was able to reach my kid and help guide him.

He once said to me, "Would daddy love me if he didn't have to?"

That's the question a kid with a disordered parent asks. It is a chilling question.

It meant to me that I had to show up emotionally and model for him all the ways in which he could become emotionally resilient. My son had a psychological evaluation done when he was 8 or 9 and he was considered "at risk." In part, he has a sensitive disposition but also because his father was a raging alcoholic with a disordered personality.

Channel your rage into off-setting what your son's mother does.

It's the best revenge.

[RandomDude]

I don't recall whether you have a custody and parenting schedule order?  If you do, what is it like and how long has it been since you tried to improve your status and its terms?

I'm wondering whether some of your anger or frustration is due to feeling unable to challenge a poor order and haven't sought ways to get a "less bad" order?

This is definitely the case. I already went to court a few years ago when S7 was much younger and UBPD mom wouldn't let him sleep over. There wasn't a court order but just a settlement.

Unfortunately in Germany when you go to court to force a parenting schedule then im most cases the schedule is set in stone from there on and circumstances need to change a lot to do it again, so trying isn't really an option here.

That's why I want to get as far as I can with the schedule on a voluntary basis first. This will give me better cards in court because then I already proved that him staying with me during the week is working fine.

I'll check this topic again though with a local self help group that is very competent when it comes to the legal system here.

And again, yeah especially this aspect makes me feel miserable, as I'm depending on her cooperation quite a bit if I don't want to care for my son only a few days a month.

[RandomDude]

Another way to deal with the anger is to learn as much as you can about narcissistic family systems and BPD parenting behaviors. The more you understand the conditions under which your son is being raised, the better able you are to offset the damage and abuse.

Channel your rage into off-setting what your son's mother does.

It's the best revenge.

That's a very helpful hint. I'm well aware I have been way to strict with him occasionally, so there definitely much to gain in this direction.

Few days ago I already made an one-on-one appointment with another state-run counseling institution to get help with my parenting and I think this could become very beneficial in the long run to invest my energy in this direction.