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Author Topic: Is it really no contact?  (Read 969 times)
Snow80

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« on: September 01, 2023, 11:52:10 AM »

We’re going on 2.5 years no contact at the request of my SIL and brother so he can have time to heal (our family is the scapegoat)
I don’t see that anything will ever change but what is difficult is that he has reached out to our mom. First responding to her texts (he usually doesn’t) and then culminating in a surprise visit to our parents’ house yesterday.  I was proud of my mom for saying “what am I supposed to do with this? It’s like you’re dead to me.”  He basically didn’t respond to that at all - has he completely shut down all empathy because we somehow deserve this? I feel he can’t open that door because all the lies in his relationship will come flooding out.
Why does he keep doing this to our parents? He says hes trying to get it back to normal but there’s no way after 15 years..
« Last Edit: September 01, 2023, 11:58:07 AM by Snow80 » Logged
livednlearned
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2023, 04:34:50 PM »

It almost sounds like he's been in a cult  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

Or a war zone.

You mention in previous posts he became a shell of himself.

I would start there.

He's chronically belittled and repeatedly shattered, over and over, by his wife.

I would think sustained contact with the family will be hard given what he's going through.

My hunch is that he is living with crushing shame and the question your mom asked does seem like she is saying there is no path for him back.

Does it seem that way to you as well?

It's hard when both parties try to find healing from the other when both are in a state of high emotional need to process and understand. Not that you don't deserve an explanation, more than he is probably not where you need him to be given the pain your family has experienced.
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Breathe.
Notwendy
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2023, 07:27:06 AM »

What was his response to your mother saying that? Did he stay or leave?

This situation seems to be unfortunately more common than I realized. There was similar behavior with my parents although my father didn't completely cut contact with his family. BPD mother disliked my father's family. Later, when my BPD mother was angry at me, this affected his relationship with me. I was shocked to see that this kind of thing could happen.

There are two sides to this situation. One is your family. Understandably- your brother's behavior is very hurtful. It seems to be cruel and selfish. You and your family can do whatever is needed for you to emotionally cope with this. If your parents feel they need to be NC for their own sakes- then they need to do what they feel is best for them. They don't need to go NC for him if they don't want to- if he chooses NC- that is his choice.

The other side is your brother, who has been in a way, taken over emotionally by the dynamics of his marriage. While the way he treats your family is hurtful - this isn't about you, or your parents- it feels personal- it's not. One question I wondered about is that- why didn't my father take a stand for his relationship with me when BPD mother interfered with it? Did he care about me? The reality though is that he in a way, lost his own sense of self in the relationship as he had abdicated his wishes to maintain the relationship with my mother.

What you may see is your brother wavering back and forth in these dynamics. At times, he may seem to be able to step out of them, and yet, then gets pulled into them. My father did this- at times appearing aware of the issues and other times, it was as if he was in her world completely. Perhaps this also parallels the push-pull of the relationship with someone with BPD.

You and your parents have two choices. One is to also go NC- not respond to any attempts on his part to connect. Understandably, you all feel hurt. But if you are responding out of that hurt back to him, IMHO, this is more hurt for all of you. If you choose NC for yourself- which means no response at all- due to your own choices- and you believe this is the best step - then choose it.

If you wish to leave the door open- make contact light and not emotional- send him birthday texts, respond to his attempts to make contact with less emotional responses. "You are dead to me" is how your mother feels but to your brother- who is also in emotional distress- that is more hurt on top of his own. If the door is to be left open, someone has to waive the surrender flag.

This doesn't mean you enable him, or pretend nothing happened. I agree- he can't just walk in the door and pretend that all that went on didn't happen. However, he also is apprehensive walking in that door. He may not be able to fully apologize all at once. But showing up says something- he still wants contact. If your parents don't- then that is there decision. If they turned him away, telling him he's dead to them, it's going to be a lot harder for him to try again.

There are circumstances where a parent feels the need to cut contact for their own well being ( and vice versa, children as well). If the relationship is abusive, if there's addiction and the parent feels they have done what they can. I recall one of my parent's friends had a son who was a drug addict and she had to cut contact. If the only time he showed up was to ask for money for drugs- then she did the right thing by turning him away- because to give him money would be enabling his addiction.

Does your family want to remain NC with your brother?
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Snow80

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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2023, 05:12:55 PM »

I should clarify that my mom told him “it’s like you’re dead” meaning that’s how she (and our family) have had to deal with his NC with us.  We have had very limited contact - like only texting him when my mom was in the hospital - with no response….well, he wrote an acknowledgment days later.

He spent almost an hour with them showing them picture and telling them how awesome everyone is doing. I think the issue I have is that our contact is completely on their terms, and it bothers me that he just shows up - here’s our life and our kids that you’ll never see - we’re all great - not realizing what it feels like to be on the other side. We have to think about him being gone because it is so bleak to us that we’ll never see him again.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2023, 05:18:15 AM »

I should clarify that my mom told him “it’s like you’re dead” meaning that’s how she (and our family) have had to deal with his NC with us.  We have had very limited contact - like only texting him when my mom was in the hospital - with no response….well, he wrote an acknowledgment days later.

He spent almost an hour with them showing them picture and telling them how awesome everyone is doing. I think the issue I have is that our contact is completely on their terms, and it bothers me that he just shows up - here’s our life and our kids that you’ll never see - we’re all great - not realizing what it feels like to be on the other side. We have to think about him being gone because it is so bleak to us that we’ll never see him again.

Yes, it's understandable that you feel this way. I think my father's family also must have felt that way as well- and I did as an adult. BPD mother controlled most aspects of my father's relationships. On the other hand, he was not a victim- he allowed her to do this. So your being upset is understandable. He's still responsible for his choices.

It's not as one sided as the wife being the cause of the problems. It wasn't until a counselor brought up my own co-dependent tendencies that I began to understand my father's part in this. The addiction model helped me to comprehend it- even if it didn't involve what we think of as addiction- in a way, my father was "addicted" to soothing my mother's feelings- to the extent that an addict chooses the drug - even if their behavior is hurtful to others- because they are addicted to it. Addicts might change- if they hit their own "bottom" and decide but family and loved ones aren't usually effective at trying to talk to them to get them to do that.

One aspect I will disagree is - the assumption that things are going great in his family. This is BS. If his marriage was a mutual caring one, your brother would be able to keep his family connections intact. It's also part of the dynamics. Relatives assumed they were being snubbed by my parents and all was great. All wasn't great. It was my parents' denial and the illusion of "all is great" and my father's need to protect my mother from anyone finding out there was anything other than "great" going on. I wouldn't assume your brother is lying- it's that he's joined his wife in this joint illusion. In public, my father praised my mother. Nobody outside the family knew what was actually going on at home.

These relationships do seem like cults in a way. It's very difficult for family on the "other side" as you say. I think on some level they sense that- but they are also drawn into something that seems to have taken their attention and so put that first. With my father- my mother read his emails, listened in on his phone calls with me. Sometimes I'd call and he'd answer,  and if she answered on the extension ( house phone), he'd hang up.

The wavering on your brother's part is a part of this. When your brother shows up, it's likely because his wife is occupied and not aware of the visits. To your family, he's being inconsiderate. To him, he's visiting at a time when he's not likely to upset his wife. He may even be sneaking out for these visits if she forbids them.

From what I have read, the approach to this is for family to take care of yourselves- do what you need to do to manage your emotional well being. If your wish is to keep the door open to a relationship with him, then know that his showing up randomly means he still cares, he's still attached- but it may be all he can manage.

I also understand the feeling of "what right does this woman have to do this to his family". Well, he also allowed it. But likely under duress. If there are kids involved, he's trying to keep the peace in his family.







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