It's just beginning to dawn on me

[Methuen]

It's just beginning to dawn on me just how messed up my mom is.

I know that doesn't make sense.  I've been posting some issues with my mom for years on this site, and it's been greatly helpful to have found a community that gets it.

About 10 years ago, my mom said something to a best friend (30 years of friendship), that led to the best friend setting up a boundary and just not seeing mom again.  I live in a small town, and that friend happens to live close to me.  We've seen each other lots, and she's always tried to "protect" me and not tell me about what happened.  As if I couldn't figure it out.  Today we were chatting, and she shared the story.

In a nutshell, her mom was in long term care.  My mom judged her and raged at her publicly in front of their friend mutual group.  Then again a few days later in a different public place.  Before that was a litany of "needling" comments.

This fits all mom's abandonment issues and her refusal to accept her diagnoses, and even consider assisted living. When her friend's mother was in "care", she judged her friend and painted her black, and then spit out a bunch of toxic   at her lifelong friend.

I acknowledged what she shared today, advised her not to take it personally, and shared that I had been dealing with that my whole life, and while it probably felt like an attack on her, it really wasn't about her at all.  It was about mom.  I happened to mention that mom had "raged" at me when I came out of retirement and returned to work.  She was aghast.  I was genuinely surprised at how horrified she was by that.  She couldn't believe it.  But I know she believed me because was at the receiving end of mom's rages multiple times, and mom lost a lifetime friend over it.  

What I am processing is how shocked this person was that mom would rage at me.  There have been so many other things.  One time I was chatting with a friend in the grocery store and mom called to tell me she was ready for pick up from an appointment.  I panicked and said I had to run...  The look on my friends face...  She said simply:  "can't she wait while we finish our conversation?"  That is when I realized that normal people don't have to drop whatever they are doing and run to their mother's.  

Despite being on this forum for years, it's just beginning to dawn on me what the true depth of my mother's issues are.  And mine.  Until 5 ish years ago, I thought she was difficult, intense, but normal, since she's the only mother I had, and growing up with her she was just "normal".

On some level, it's just beginning to dawn on me...which I know sounds daft...it's just been a process to go from thinking "mom is normal", to appreciating how "not normal", and how mean and "sick?" she really is.  I mean, who wants to accept that about their mom?

She is so embarrassing.

My new T is suggesting that my feelings about societal expectations about daughters caring for their mothers, and my worries about what other people might think because I care so much about upholding my values of caring for others (when I am unable to do this for my mother), is shame.  I know I struggle with guilt, and I've been working on that, but I've never felt ashamed.  But is this sense of worrying about societal expectations shame, or guilt because mother has groomed me to take care of her, and now I'm not "taking care of her" the way I used to?

Recently, I went to a family function from my dad's side of the family.  When I got back, I texted mom that A, B, C, D, E, F, G  said hello.  She texted back and said "Not H?"

Today she texted and said "you goofed.  When you bought the puzzle, it's 3 feet wider than my table.  I think I'll put it back in the box".

Why do I keep banging my head on the brick wall to do nice things for her?  It just hurts so much.  The puzzle is not 3 feet wider than her table.  Why would she add the tag "I think I'll put it back in the box"?  That was added with intent to injure...she added that deliberately.

She never misses an opportunity to sabotage something nice I try to do for her.  I've stopped bringing her meals, because she just tells me what's wrong with it.  And I was a high school cooking teacher.

Just musing.

I sense mom might be going into another dysregulation...  I've been home from our camping trip for 3 weeks, and only seen mom 2 or 3 times.  From her point of view, I am a neglectful daughter not meeting her needs = disappointment = likely emotional dysregulation = negative texts to me about not hearing from "H" and my not being good enough because I bought her the wrong size puzzle (I didn't)

Why do I even try?

[So Stressed]

Why do we even try?  Because we are good daughters, Methuen.

I always relate to what you write, so I always read your posts, and they have helped me so much to know that I am not alone. 

This weekend, it had finally dawned on me that my mother is never going to be able to love me or be a normal Mom.  I have had a challenging lifetime with her, and yet, I always assumed she was "normal."  It was only in the last few years that I realized that she is not normal and she is mentally ill.  But, I still think I had not truly accepted that at a deep level...until this weekend.

I, too, have noticed the shocked looks on the faces of my friends when I have told them various things about Mom.  Lately, Mom has done quite a lot of cruel, mean things to me and others.  She has said some truly awful things. Sometimes, I think when I tell someone what she said or did, they don't believe me or think I am exaggerating.  A part of me has remained hopeful that she could possibly be a loving Mom, but that's not possible. She is not capable. She even stole some things from me last time she was here.

I was away last week, and when I got home, I didn't call Mom right away because I was tired and I just wasn't up for the drama of the call. So, I called her yesterday morning, and of course, she put me down for being home for 2 days before I called, etc. She has my number...she could have called if she wanted to, but she would rather make me feel guilty for not calling her.

After calling Mom yesterday morning, I was walking around here wounded all day yesterday and again today, and then I talked to one of my close friends, and she reminded me that I am a good daughter and that I have done a lot of loving and kind things for my Mom, but it is Mom who is unable to acknowledge that.

As for food, the last time I took Mom food, I had made chicken soup, and it was an especially good batch.  I was giving some to a neighbor, and I thought maybe I should take some to Mom, so I gave her the portion I would have kept for myself.  When I gave it to her, she asked me what the #$@% it was and why was I bringing it to her?  I expect she threw it away.  That was not the first time she had done that, but it was the last time I took her any food I had made.

I have punished myself trying to do more and more and be a better daughter, and yet, there is no better daughter.  It will never be good enough. Mom has told neighbors and friends that I don't take proper care of her, that I am not there for her, that I am a "problem," etc.  I not only feel hurt that she says those things and doesn't appreciate me, but I feel embarrassed that other people think I don't take proper care of her, and that isn't even true.  She has divided me from my sibling by telling her sad stories, so now I have no ally in the family. In fact, I have no family.

My Mom moved 1000 miles away from me this summer because she told me that I am not allowed to take my annual holiday.  I stuck to my boundary, so she moved. I think she thought I would cave and she wouldn't be moving, but I didn't cave this time, and now she lives close to her Golden child in an assisted living home that is not the best but my sibling put her there.  It was my punishment for not doing what she wanted.  The whole thing was hurtful and mean.  She just gets meaner as she ages, and it is quite shocking how mean she can be to her own daughter.

I would do the same as you if my Mom called when I was talking to a friend. I would get stressed and end my conversation and run to her call because I would be afraid of the consequences if I didn't.  But, I think I have finally learned that if I run to her now, she will just find something else to rage about.

It is truly sad and I can't imagine how awful she feels inside.

[Notwendy]

I can relate to the shock of this realization. It also came at middle age- I think this is because it's the only "normal" we know and also, children feel attachment to our mothers. I also think it's due to the secrecy and enabling in these families and people not understanding. "Of course your mother loves you" because- mothers love their children right?

Nope, not mine. I also think we get this message- if we are very good- Mommy will love us, but it's not us, it's that they are too mentally ill to be able to do that. We can't possibly understand all of this as children.

There were a few moments of realization. One is when during a visit, I realized my mother was lying- flat out lying and on purpose and it had not occurred to me that she'd do that.

The other times were during my father's illness. I was shocked at her behavior. I knew she could be critical and emotionally abusive, but the extent of this- I didn't. I know that forgiveness and letting go of resentment is the right path to take- I can do that and I think I have done that- it's the realization- as Methuen mentioned- of the extent of her mental illness.

[zachira]

Methuen,
I can so relate to what you have shared. We are a work in progress accepting and understanding how impaired our mothers with BPD are. It is so normal to not give up on wanting our mothers to love us even when they can't until the day they die, when the hope is gone that we will have a loving mother, which is so central to feeling loved and validated throughout the whole life span. My mother painted black so many of her friends when they became sick and raged frequently about them in private, while refusing to visit them in nursing homes or make contact with them. I am always learning new ways that my mother was impaired like what you have shared about your mother raging at her ill friend, and am still shocked when I hear a new one from members on this site. In the years since my mother has passed away, I have come to acknowledge both the good and bad with her, and there is an inner peace knowing she can not harm me any more. Sending you warm thoughts and hope.

[MoFamliyMoProbs]

First off, I also sometimes wonder why my uBPD mother in law hates her supposed best friend so much and why she would risk that friendship over petty . I mean, she only seems to have one friend left, because she eventually alienates everyone else in her life. But while she was visiting us and our new baby, all she could talk about was how her best friend was constantly texting her about seeing her grandchildren. She took it as taunting (uBPD mother in law is somewhat estranged from her 2 other two grandkids). It's like she couldn't comprehend that she was concerned and just checking in on her. I really don't understand why the two of them are still friends. What's the other friend getting out of it?

Despite being on this forum for years, it's just beginning to dawn on me what the true depth of my mother's issues are.  And mine.  Until 5 ish years ago, I thought she was difficult, intense, but normal, since she's the only mother I had, and growing up with her she was just "normal".

On some level, it's just beginning to dawn on me...which I know sounds daft...it's just been a process to go from thinking "mom is normal", to appreciating how "not normal", and how mean and "sick?" she really is.  I mean, who wants to accept that about their mom?

Unfortunately this seems to be common with children raised in a up family system. Or people who were groomed by others, especially when they were younger. My spouse started realizing how messed up his family was after meeting my family (not that mine is perfect). And it took him almost 20 years, after we just had our 1st baby, to realize how truly horrific their parenting was.

At the risk of ruffling feathers, I will be vague about what I am referring to next. There was a documentary about a famous celebrity who abused and groomed young children. It took those people 10 years or 20 years to realize the abuse fully because "abuse" and "love" were conflated. One similarly didn't realize until they had their first baby and started having bouts of anger. Finally going to therapy and realizing they would NEVER want what was done to them to be done to their child. The documentary was tough to watch and I put it off for years, but if you ever want to learn more about classic grooming behavior, it was a must-see. 

[Notwendy]

I think it is similar to grooming but not as an intentionally exploitative way. I think of the grooming children for adult gratification is with exploitative intent. This involves family patterns that can follow in subsequent generations- not deliberately- but because when children grow up in dysfunctional families- this is the only "normal" they know. They learn certain behaviors that are functional in their family of origin- and then tend to pair up with partners who also match these behaviors in a way. Attraction is in part unconscious- a feeling of familiarity.

Love and abuse can be interconnected. I recall when I began to have boundaries with my parents, my father wrote an email- saying he wanted us to all be a happy family again. That seemed so odd. How is tolerating my mother's verbal and emotional abuse something happy? But BPD mother dislikes boundaries so it was about not doing anything to upset her.

We were "groomed" to be emotional caretakers and helpers to my mother and to tolerate her behavior, and to do things for her. This was not done with any bad intent on the part of my father. There are two parts to the discovery of my mother's disorder- hers and then, my father's role in their relationship. I perceived him as the "good guy" in the relationship-and as a victim of her behavior, but he wasn't a victim- he was an adult who also was a part of the relationship. I know he was in a difficult situation.

It was when I was dealing with my own relationship issues that I understood his role because a counselor told me I was being co-dependent. I didn't even realize it- this was our normal in the family too. BPD mother had her behaviors- to manage things- we learned co-dependent behaviors. This was our "normal" and so we had to learn to make changes ourselves. One of my motivations to do this was so I could role model different behaviors for my own children.

I think all families have their own odd patterns- it's the degree of dysfunction. I also think we can see it in other families better than we can in our own- because each person's family becomes their "normal". Like your family, my H's family is far more "normal" than mine is, but it isn't without it's own issues. I also wondered how we "matched" as his parents don't have BPD. But learning about co-dependency- I could see that this was the match. His mother - loving and caring person- is also co-dependent. Father in law isn't disordered but could have a temper. He didn't abuse anyone but we could see that mother in law over functioned as a caretaker to keep things toned down. Still, they had the elements of stability in their relationship that were not present in my family, and they genuinely cared about each other.

My mother's behavior is more obvious. With my H, I could see the milder issues in his family but he could not- and for the same reasons- we don't know any other example of "normal" growing up, so it makes sense we don't see these things until we are adults and interact with people outside our family more.

What is interesting is that my parents had some long term friends. My BPD mother has had several short term friendships- my best guess is that there is some conflict between them eventually. However, she has a friend since college. I didn't have the chance to observe the relationship much as an adult but when my father was ill, this friend would call several times and my mother would ignore the calls. Eventually, I answered her phone and the friend was frantic, wondering if my father was OK. Apparently my mother had some reason she was angry at the friend and was stonewalling her. To me, I felt that this was not the time to do this- that it is only decent to put your own disagreements aside for the sake of the friendship and to recognize the more significant reason for the call- the friend wasn't calling for a casual chat, she was worried. But BPD mother lacks empathy and I could see she didn't consider this.

So how is it that they remained friends with this kind of BPD paint black, paint white cycle? The friend doesn't have BPD but she has her own disfunction too and her H - co-dependent. So maybe this is the match. Not the same disorder but similar patterns. The other possibility is that BPD affects the most intimate relationships the most, and I have observed that my BPD mother can be more "normal" and nicer to friends and acquaintances than with her immediate family. This is part of the disorder.

I think for your H, like for several of us, there's learning involved. It's more of a series of "moments" I think. It parallels how children grow. As children, our parents are all powerful. We see them from a child perspective. As adults we see them through our own perspective- as humans who aren't all powerful but who have their own strong points and imperfections as all humans do. If we become parents, it changes how we perceived the way we were parented. There's that moment of "I would not treat my own child like this" and more- "how can she treat her friend like this" or spouse like this? It's good that your H is aware and motivated to make changes- but this is also an emotional journey for him. You may see the dysfunction better, but also it's hard to comprehend when you have grown up in a different situation.

[zachira]

Uncovering being abused and facing how badly our mother with BPD treats her children, would be too painful to realize all at once. It is a life time of peeling an onion. We told ourselves as children that our mothers loved us so we could survive.

[TelHill]

Methuen,

For me one factor is the shifting sands of therapeutic theory. I've had years of therapy (30 yrs) and there wasn't much information about bpd up until 7 or 8 years ago in the therapy community in my location.  With that vacuum, the idea is things should improve for them and for us if we keep working hard at therapy. I remember it being said the intensity and number of behavioral problems would abate once a pwBPD reached their elderly years.  To be honest, I gave up therapy in 2016 because I didn't see the point of going to people who painted an unrealistically rosy picture of my mother. I felt I was being blamed for not getting over my scary childhood.

The shift to a more realistic picture of a pwBPD is still underway in the therapy community in Northern California at least.

Edited to add: I restarted therapy in 2021, but am leaving that person (countertransference issues) and seeking another.

[livednlearned]

About 10 years ago, my mom said something to a best friend (30 years of friendship), that led to the best friend setting up a boundary and just not seeing mom again.

Methuen, I'm wondering if learning this information gave you permission (for lack of a better word) to right-size the abuse because in your small town, lifelong friends are sort of fencing you into many of the "good daughter" behaviors that put you in harm's way. With the story your mom's lifelong friend shared, do you feel you experienced a crack in the narrative that your mom's friends will judge you? Perhaps this meaningful insight enabled a shift in you, in how much of the onion you felt willing to peel away, to paraphrase what zachira said.  

I acknowledged what she shared today, advised her not to take it personally, and shared that I had been dealing with that my whole life, and while it probably felt like an attack on her, it really wasn't about her at all.  It was about mom

I would want to know if this friend thought it was about her ... she ended the relationship.

Do you think she felt guilty for ending the friendship? Or? My sense is that she got to the end of her rope, and it was only a minimum of what you've experienced, so maybe she was quite clear who the problem was.

Could it be that what you said to her is what you say to yourself to maintain a relationship with your mom?

Why do I keep banging my head on the brick wall to do nice things for her?  It just hurts so much.

Have you tried dialing back on doing nice things for her? If you have tried it before and it was too hard to keep up, I wonder if this latest exchange with the friend might help in a second attempt.

When I was trying to protect myself with SD26, I did an inventory with a therapist listing the things that drained me and the things that fulfilled me when it came to spending time with her. I had dozens of items in the drain column and nothing in the fulfill column. We put the items in the drain column into groups. Things I could eliminate doing with little recourse, things I could change that would likely meet resistance, and big things that would probably spill over into the family dynamic. Once I worked through the first two groups, we tackled the big things and came up with tailor-made strategies.

That was a weirdly comforting approach. I wonder if something like that might work for you, adapted for your situation. I know you've offshored important things to H and perhaps dialed back on things, but I'm curious if you might be able to downshift other things after your conversation.

Why do I even try?

Does it feel like hope at all? Or shame?

I have a problem with plausible deniability due to a deep-seated preference for civility, if that's the right word. People often describe me as gracious and I'm not sure if that's my natural disposition or a byproduct of codependency.

Because of it, I tend to go along with that wing of my personality when left to my own devices. I am repulsed by my mother but I also recognize she is one. I feel repulsion for SD26 but I recognize she's a child. I do fewer nice things for them but I do make an effort even when those gestures are void of emotion.

Dialing back the kind gestures is something I did very slowly, in part because I dreaded a reaction. Each time there was no blowback, I kept reigning in other gestures until our relationships are quite transactional.

I think your challenge is that your mother crosses the line into full-blown rages. For me, the anger used to come through my father, but that has been largely neutralized post-estrangement. And H has come around a lot, although he does get angry, even if we are better at working through that anger.

Do you think that this conversation makes you feel different about how to handle one of your mother's rages if she were to unload on you?

[Methuen]

This weekend, it had finally dawned on me that my mother is never going to be able to love me or be a normal Mom.  

 My condolences So Stressed.  I came to the same conclusion 1 or 2 or 5? years ago, and it's gotten a bit easier, but I'm still grieving.  I get where you are coming from. I can totally relate to your story about your mom not calling you after you got home, but guilting you for not calling her.  That's their perspective and it's just super messed up.

I have punished myself trying to do more and more and be a better daughter, and yet, there is no better daughter.  It will never be good enough. Mom has told neighbors and friends that I don't take proper care of her, that I am not there for her, that I am a "problem," etc.  I not only feel hurt that she says those things and doesn't appreciate me, but I feel embarrassed that other people think I don't take proper care of her, and that isn't even true.  She has divided me from my sibling by telling her sad stories, so now I have no ally in the family. In fact, I have no family.

 I understand - I am so sorry. It's so isolating and painful when people don't understand, or judge without knowing both sides of the story.  I struggle with the probable perceptions of other people too.  These perceptions of judgement I feel are based on remarks people make to me.  "Does your mother live with you?"  which somehow implies that she should.  Or "does she eat?" which makes me feel like I should be bringing her more meals.  I realize I am also putting this pressure on my self, because little Methuen learned at a young age to take responsibility for her mother in order to survive. It's hard to untangle all this toxic "feeling" we hold such as guilt or even shame.  Cognitively I do believe I have been an extraordinary daughter to my mother over my life - but - it doesn't matter - because my mother's bucket has a huge hole in the bottom, and it's just never enough. If I understand my T accurately, my emotional self hasn't caught up with my cognitive self, and that's why I'm concerned about perceptions people may have.  If my emotional self was convinced "I was enough", I wouldn't care what other people think...or something like that.  Clearly I'm still trying to process all this, but I really relate to your words about never being good enough for your mother.

In the years since my mother has passed away, I have come to acknowledge both the good and bad with her, and there is an inner peace knowing she can not harm me any more. Sending you warm thoughts and hope.

As always Zachira, thank you for your empathy and caring. Your kindness really helps.

First off, I also sometimes wonder why my uBPD mother in law hates her supposed best friend so much and why she would risk that friendship over petty . I mean, she only seems to have one friend left, because she eventually alienates everyone else in her life. But while she was visiting us and our new baby, all she could talk about was how her best friend was constantly texting her about seeing her grandchildren... I really don't understand why the two of them are still friends. What's the other friend getting out of it?

What's so sad in this is her complete inability to be present for you and her new grandchild.  It actually makes me mad that she behaved like this.  I am so sorry - that would have been a very upsetting visit.

NW,

However, she has a friend since college. I didn't have the chance to observe the relationship much as an adult but when my father was ill, this friend would call several times and my mother would ignore the calls. Eventually, I answered her phone and the friend was frantic, wondering if my father was OK. Apparently my mother had some reason she was angry at the friend and was stonewalling her.

This is interesting because my mother does this too - ignore phone calls, or ghost people.  Then months or a year later when she needs something and gets desperate enough, she calls then up and asks for something.  Her behavior just horrifies me - it is so embarrassing.  

the friend wasn't calling for a casual chat, she was worried. But BPD mother lacks empathy

This.

I remember it being said the intensity and number of behavioral problems would abate once a pwBPD reached their elderly years.  

This drives me crazy.  I have read it in books, and seen this posted on this forum as if it was a fact.  It is so damaging when people write this, without acknowledging the opposite can also be true.  Many of us will attest that our mother's BPD traits worsened with aging.  My mom used to have some human traits, and we had some good times when she was being her Jekyll self.  But her geriatric self is now all Hyde. So to those who like to make absolute claims that BPD diminishes mid-life, they don't have our lived experience, and I wish they understood how hurtful it is to have to listen to. I'm happy for all the families that were lucky enough to have it go that way, but not all of us are that lucky.

With the story your mom's lifelong friend shared, do you feel you experienced a crack in the narrative that your mom's friends will judge you? Perhaps this meaningful insight enabled a shift in you, in how much of the onion you felt willing to peel away, to paraphrase what zachira said.  

It was validating.  She was reluctant to share the story.  I kind of drew it out of her, because I KNEW it, but I needed to hear it.  At the same time, I repeatedly tried to release her from any guilt for cutting ties with mom.  

Do you think she felt guilty for ending the friendship? Or? My sense is that she got to the end of her rope, and it was only a minimum of what you've experienced, so maybe she was quite clear who the problem was.

I'm not certain... but I think it was both.  Mom had been needling her with negative comments for some time, before she crossed the red line and raged at her publicly.  She was very clear about mom being the problem.  But I could also see there was pain at losing a 30 year friendship that had at times been very close and fulfilling - they had interests in common.  Still - there was no going back for the friend.  Mom showed up with fresh baked buns at her door one day, and she said no thanks and closed the door. (buns and cookies were common transactions once upon a time, to absolve herself and move on as if nothing had ever happened.  Now she is too decrepit to make anything, and is simply entitled to behave badly because she is old)

Have you tried dialing back on doing nice things for her? If you have tried it before and it was too hard to keep up, I wonder if this latest exchange with the friend might help in a second attempt.

Yes.  I probably do 99% less for her than I used to.  That's how much I used to do.  It was crazy.  I just tried so hard.  A year and a half ago I burned out.  Now my H does the nice things.  He recently purchased a special phone for her for hearing impaired people (she paid for it but he did the work to buy it and figure out how to use it).  I don't have it in me to do that "maintenance" stuff for her any more.  I bring her puzzles, and the odd ice cream cone etc when I feel up to it.  But recently even the puzzle fell short.  Tomorrow I am bringing her soup...small portion...so it doesn't get thrown out or given away.

When I was trying to protect myself with SD26, I did an inventory with a therapist listing the things that drained me and the things that fulfilled me when it came to spending time with her. I had dozens of items in the drain column and nothing in the fulfill column.

haha.  Yep.

Does it feel like hope at all? Or shame?

Hope for a relationship with my mom?  Definitely not.  That ship sailed a long time ago.  I've never struggled with shame - guilt yes!  But my new T is challenging me on thinking I don't carry shame.  I probably do - and that's why I struggle with not being "good enough" for my mom.  T says next time mom triggers me, to remind myself "I am enough".

I am repulsed by my mother but I also recognize she is one. I feel repulsion for SD26 but I recognize she's a child. I do fewer nice things for them but I do make an effort even when those gestures are void of emotion.

I am repulsed too.  This is not a person I would choose to have anything to do with if she wasn't my mother.

Each time there was no blowback, I kept reigning in other gestures until our relationships are quite transactional.

I can relate to transactional - but unfortunately mom's transactional tendancies are a weak spot for me, and transactional just feels icky.

Do you think that this conversation makes you feel different about how to handle one of your mother's rages if she were to unload on you?

Very Interesting question.  Left brain - yes.  Right brain - not there yet.  Much more work to do.  She hasn't "fully" unloaded on me since I told her I was going back to work because I've withdrawn and H has taken over.  So I'm not available to unload on.  She's probably been unloading on some other poor sod.  However, as we all know, your hypothesis (that I might be able to handle her next rage differently) will undoubtedly have another opportunity to get tested.

Thanks everyone for the conversation and support and comments which help me process. As usual feedback is welcome.  I just wish I knew what I needed to do to get unstuck.  I'm all ears for thoughts and suggestions.

[Notwendy]

   Cognitively I do believe I have been an extraordinary daughter to my mother over my life - but - it doesn't matter - because my mother's bucket has a huge hole in the bottom, and it's just never enough. If I understand my T accurately, my emotional self hasn't caught up with my cognitive self, and that's why I'm concerned about perceptions people may have.  If my emotional self was convinced "I was enough", I wouldn't care what other people think...or something like that.  Clearly I'm still trying to process all this, but I really relate to your words about never being good enough for your mother.
 

Her behavior just horrifies me - it is so embarrassing.  

This drives me crazy.  I have read it in books, and seen this posted on this forum as if it was a fact.  It is so damaging when people write this, without acknowledging the opposite can also be true.  Many of us will attest that our mother's BPD traits worsened with aging.  My mom used to have some human traits, and we had some good times when she was being her Jekyll self.  But her geriatric self is now all Hyde. 

 
 Hope for a relationship with my mom?  Definitely not.  That ship sailed a long time ago.  I've never struggled with shame - guilt yes!  But my new T is challenging me on thinking I don't carry shame.  I probably do - and that's why I struggle with not being "good enough" for my mom.  T says next time mom triggers me, to remind myself "I am enough".


 I am repulsed too.  This is not a person I would choose to have anything to do with if she wasn't my mother.


 I can relate to transactional - but unfortunately mom's transactional tendencies are a weak spot for me, and transactional just feels icky.

I can relate to all of these statements. BPD mother's behavior has been difficult with the people around her. In one way it's been validating - because before she needed assistance, my parents were invested in keeping this secret. If I said anything, they'd deny it. This allowed for some hope that maybe a relationship with her was possible. It's not.

I can also relate to the shame and guilt aspect. Yet, nothing is enough for her- no matter who does it.

There's an elderly man in the neighborhood. I didn't know him - so we have always had minimal contact but others were friends with him and his late wife. They say he's a difficult person. Friends say he needs to be in assisted living but he remains where he is. He has a daughter who lives nearby. So I have heard discussions about "why isn't the daughter getting him into assisted living? Why isn't she visiting more?" but I have an idea of why. although I don't know for sure.

They ask the question but the other side of this is that they aren't being judgmental on the daughter. Perhaps it's something we feel because we feel obligated. These friends have also realized that this man is difficult with them. One thing I have realized is that some people actually do see what is going on with my mother- or at least enough of it to not be so judgmental.

Methuen- I think you and your H have done a remarkable service to your mother.

[zachira]

Methuen,
It seems that your mother has gotten to the point where she no longer is making the kind of efforts she used to to hide under her facade of being a nice person sometimes in some circumstances. She is losing her ability to control everything including you and she knows it. Being her primary target, you are doing everything to protect yourself, and how can you do that, when you still are doing what you feel fits with who you are and your code of ethics. In the worst of times with my disordered relatives, I have told myself I will not lower myself to their level and I will maintain my integrity no matter what I have to do because if I didn't than I would no longer be who I am. I see you doing something similar, despite the fact that if you were another kind of person, you would have nothing to do with your mother. I have enormous respect for you and your husband for what you are doing and how you are handling yourselves.

[Methuen]

So I have heard discussions about "why isn't the daughter getting him into assisted living? Why isn't she visiting more?" but I have an idea of why. although I don't know for sure.

They ask the question but the other side of this is that they aren't being judgmental on the daughter. Perhaps it's something we feel because we feel obligated. These friends have also realized that this man is difficult with them. One thing I have realized is that some people actually do see what is going on with my mother- or at least enough of it to not be so judgmental.

Methuen- I think you and your H have done a remarkable service to your mother.

Thank you NW.  It doesn’t feel like it at all, and I realize that’s little Methuen cowering, but my left brain does agree with you.  This dissonance is causing me a lot of internal distress.

Still your story gives me hope.  Maybe people see/hear but I don’t know it because they haven’t shared any empathy with me.  I realize this would be a difficult thing to do.  But it leaves me and H in a very lonely place.

I have enormous respect for you and your husband for what you are doing and how you are handling yourselves.

I appreciate that.  Although my mother leaves my bucket perpetually drained, it’s nice to know I can come here to collect some water again. 

[Notwendy]

It's interesting what people assume, but why wouldn't they- if they had emotionally stable parents, they'd have no idea.

With reconnecting with my mother's FOO, it's like a process of discovery for them- what they assumed and what is the situation.

I don't offer this information about my mother- but I answer honestly if they ask me.

Until they themselves interacted enough with BPD mother to begin to wonder otherwise.

It's also interesting being on the receiving end of attention from relatives my parents' age.  When I meet up with my kids for dinner, I pay, because I enjoy taking my kids for dinner. So when I met up with my mother's family- they took me out for dinner, spent time with me- did what parents do. It was normal for them. Yet it was odd for me. Dad would do this on his own- if he was on business- meet up with me - take me to dinner. He has even taken me and friends out for dinner- cause this is what Dads do. But not when mother is around. They may have taken us out to dinner together but the whole evening is all about her. She's elderly now, so I don't expect her to take me to dinner but my visits are about me doing things for her.

If my mother offered to take me to dinner, I would not accept it because it's not like her to do something nice for me without an agenda.

So back to Methuen's feeling of other people's assumptions. People assume what they think they'd do from their own experience, and that is uncomfortable.