Found father after almost 30 years, unsure about his personality

[Sappho11]

Hi everyone. I came to this board a couple of years ago because I was in a relationship with a BPD man. I've also had friends diagnosed with the disorder so I've had my share of grief with it.

Lately I've been worried, because I'm seeing a lot of the patterns with my father, and I wanted to run it by you to see whether I'm imagining things or not.

I recently reconnected with my old man after almost three decades (I'm in my early 30s) and thankfully, it was a happy reunion for both sides. My mother and he had a decades-long affair since their youth, which was largely hindered by class difference and the fact that they were living in different countries. My father has always been impulsive, reactive, exuberant. Also very extroverted and warm-hearted to those closest to him. But also prone to self-pity and flighty, albeit non-violent rage.

I never learnt why my mother (who was incredibly resilient psychologically and an eternal optimist) never married him. In large parts, life got in the way, but it seems in the end she just didn't want to. At least that's his side of the story. She was indubitably his great love in any case.

It might be worth mentioning that my father's other daughter (my half-sister) broke off all contact with him when she was in her early 20s.

I can see why. Knowing him now, as an adult, I'm able to set boundaries with him, even though it is difficult. He can be controlling and possessive, though he generally backs off when told no. Growing up with that kind of enmeshment would certainly have been very difficult. He does make efforts to better himself, though I'm never sure whether that's out of genuine concern for my wellbeing or because he's scared of losing me, as I bolster his value within his family structure (today he's married to a happy, lovely, stable, securely-attached woman who has children and grandchildren of her own, and he's often felt alienated because of this; I feel he's often ungrateful towards that lovely, caring woman, by the way).

I'll try to get to the point...

The first weeks after reuniting (I'd last seen him when I was a little girl, four or five years of age) were intense. We exchanged long messages daily, he was incredibly enthusiastic, and when we met in person, it was as if not a second had passed. It was a whirlwind. I was never sure whether this was normal given the circumstances – we were both extremely happy, me finally having a family (I'd thought I was an orphan for most of my life), and my father finally having a daughter again. But I must admit I was also constantly reminded of the lovebombing phase in narcissistic/BPD relationships, because it was just as intense. Already here I do not know whether I'm being overly suspicious or not, and whether it's just my own trauma hindering me to enjoy something truly good.

I noticed that my father has certain outbursts that remind me a lot of the "BPD mask slipping". He'll generally overreact to even the smallest disappointments – usually me setting a normal boundary. Example, I didn't want to stay over at his and his new wife's house because they don't have a guest room and it would have troubled them, and I explained to him that I'd stay at a hotel instead. His response to this was a full-blown, emotional tirade on how quickly all happiness could vanish, that he was useless, that there was nothing to add... We eventually worked it out but it was extremely exhausting. (He also ended up driving to my hotel three times in advance of my stay to make sure it was a decent place, which I found excessive.)

Another example was when he talked about recognising his paternity officially (which I do want too), he mentioned that I'd be changing my name to his. I'm a grown woman, I raised myself, I have my own last name, and I calmly explained to him in detail why it was important for me to keep it. Again, he launched into a horrifying tirade, questioning everything, telling me there was no point in continuing with the recognition because his "name seemed hostile" to me, and that he wouldn't even read anything beyond that point. He also went on at length what a terrible father he was, that he was a complete failure, that he should kill himself, etc. Needless to say, more agitation, also for me. (He eventually calmed down and we worked out that I still would be his daughter despite not carrying his name, but the project has since stalled.)

Whenever he gets into these states, he is completely resistent to any kind of rational argumentation. No logical explanation of why something has nothing to do with him, that it's just a difference of opinion, will reach him. He generally calms down after a day or two, and then he can finally be reasoned with, but only ever after a lot of drama.

One thing that I noticed early, he never, ever apologises. He just brushes things over and moves on. He does feel bad for some of it (you can feel the guilt) but he sweeps it under the rug. His favourite sentence in this case is: "Can we pretend this never happened?" He is 70+ years old so maybe this is a generational thing, I have no idea.

The other day we had a hefty argument about my birthday. I've never celebrated my birthday in my life (as mentioned, I effectively grew up an orphan) and I am uneasy to do so, which I communicated. My father thought it was a good idea to arrange a celebration with one of my cousins whom I don't know, whose birthday it is several days later, and invite about 10 family members whom I also don't know. I'm extremely introverted so this is my horror scenario on a normal day, let alone my birthday which I've never made a fuss about. There will likely be tears and I don't want them to be public, I am very private emotionally and this is a vulnerable issue.

So I told my father I couldn't go through with it, and explained why like above, also stressing that it was not that I didn't like family, that I do want to meet all of them, just little by little, and on a normal day, please! My father responded by saying that these days, he often thinks about how the honourable thing to do for him would be to shoot himself, that this would make things easier for everyone etc.

I was a complete mess that day and had to cancel my business appointments that afternoon. We eventually worked it out, but again, it was exhausting.

The next day, I met him in person (we live 300 miles apart so there's a buffer zone). We spent a great day together. At dinner in a restaurant he suddenly asks: "You know... if I drive off the road tomorrow and kill myself, would you go to my funeral?" I was shocked and said of course! "But there will be many people there, too, you know... and you said you don't like going to events with many people..." I felt manipulated and could hardly speak. Here is this man whose existence I've had to do without for all my life, and he talks about killing himself! He retorted: "You've barely been alive half a life, you have no right to say "all your life"." He can be surprisingly unempathetic (also to strangers, which I've noticed before). The whole thing reminded me so much of BPD arguments that I excused myself to go cry in the restroom. I barely took two minutes and there were messages on my phone: "Where are you?" "I've paid, I'm waiting outside."

So I did my walk of shame back through the restaurant and out to the streets, where he was waiting. He seemed really destabilised. I finally managed to speak and tell him, as calmly as possible, that I was hurt by his careless remarks about killing himself. That I had lived so long without him and now he was using the possibility of his death so nonchalantly! – The worst happened: We had one of those classic word salad arguments. He started berating me for making a scene in the restaurant, that I had stood him up, that he had felt humiliated by the waiter; also that I shouldn't be talking to him like that, that he was my father and that I owed him respect, that I couldn't be calling him an arsehole. I had never done so, I had merely said his words had hurt me. "Yes, and who says hurtful things? Arseholes! So you're calling me an arsehole." I repeated I had only said his words had hurt me, and he abandoned this line of argument. Then the whole familiar phrases started: "You're so sensitive, I can barely say anything around you", "I never said I was going to kill myself" (he did), "that never happened", "calm down" (even though I was calm and he wasn't), and "I'm getting to know a completely different side of you tonight, where is that sweet, tender girl you've been?". Then he made the entire conversation about himself, how he had once planned to kill himself and almost done it. I retorted, "Well, you've done it once, while I've been living with that intention for thirty years because I had no-one, because you weren't there". He had nothing left to say after that. We hugged and he brought me to my train, and then he did the usual thing: gloss things over and pretend they never happened.

One other thing to mention, like my BPD ex-boyfriend, my father always makes a big point of my alleged "fragility". Problem is, I am in fact the opposite of fragile, and my entire life apart from him is a testament to that. I don't know why he keeps bringing it up.

Ever since mentioned meeting/word salad argument, he has noticeably pulled back, and I wonder if I am now in the devaluation phase. Only time will tell and it's making me uneasy.

Sorry for the Tolstoi-sized account of events... but am I going crazy, am I overreacting, or is something wrong here? It's a complicated situation, to be fair, I'm under a lot of stress (I moved to a foreign country six months ago, I don't speak the language perfectly, and all these conversations with my father are done in the new language to boot). But I have this mental list of red flags and I feel the more time passes, the more it grows.

What do I do?

My friends are naturally overwhelmed with the situation too: I mean, there's no manual for suddenly finding your father three decades later when you didn't even think he existed... in the beginning I considered moving (to a less attractive city) to be closer to him, but I now appreciate the advice of one particularly level-headed friend who's always sceptic and who told me to wait and see. (I'm definitely NOT moving now.)

The whole thing smacks of enmeshment at least (which would be a plausible reason for why my half-sister cut off ties) and I guess I'm just looking for some orientation on what to do. I'd love to have a father to confide in but I hesitate with certain things in my past because I'm scared it might get weaponised one day, as has often happened in relationships with disordered people.

What do you think?

[Methuen]

Lately I've been worried, because I'm seeing a lot of the patterns with my father, and I wanted to run it by you to see whether I'm imagining things or not.
… am I going crazy, am I overreacting, or is something wrong here? It's a complicated situation, to be fair, I'm under a lot of stress (I moved to a foreign country six months ago, I don't speak the language perfectly, and all these conversations with my father are done in the new language to boot). But I have this mental list of red flags and I feel the more time passes, the more it grows.

What do I do?

The whole thing smacks of enmeshment at least (which would be a plausible reason for why my half-sister cut off ties) and I guess I'm just looking for some orientation on what to do. I'd love to have a father to confide in but I hesitate with certain things in my past because I'm scared it might get weaponised one day, as has often happened in relationships with disordered people.

From everything you have written here, my advice would be to trust your instincts.  Your dad is not an emotionally stable person if he repeatedly talks about killing himself to the daughter he just found after 30 years.

Perhaps you already know inside why your mother never married him…

You are not crazy. You are not over reacting, and yes it smacks of enmeshment and a disturbed person.

I am sorry.  After finding your father after 30 years, you weren’t expecting this, which sounds like it is coming as a disappointment.

Trust your instincts.  They are protecting you.

As for what to do, I would slow things down.  Don’t spend as much time together, take longer to respond to messages, reduce contact time by just being busy with life and work.  

I would not expressly tell him why.  Instead, just give him the space to self soothe.  He’s an adult.  Remember that. You are not responsible for his feelings.

With all these red flags I would not share anything personal with him.  You are fairly assessing that it could get weaponized against you in the future.  

Friendly and cordial, but with restraint.  

And the next time he says he should kill himself, call him on it and tell him if he says it again you will call the authorities for obvious reasons.  

My friend, it is time to set boundaries.

It is sad and unfortunate, but your concerns are real.

I am so sorry.

[Sappho11]

Thank you Methuen. I think you make a lot of good points.

From everything you have written here, my advice would be to trust your instincts.  Your dad is not an emotionally stable person if he repeatedly talks about killing himself to the daughter he just found after 30 years.

You are right, and I've told him that, too. He's since played it down as a "joke". I'm beginning to think he might not have a personality-, but a mood disorder. He does have severe depressive tendencies that have gone untreated for the better part of 70+ years. I'm not optimistic there'd be any way to convince him to seek treatment now. He blocks any kind of conversation that gets near topics that are vulnerable to him – such as his upbringing (classic: he had a domineering, critical father; my father was the scapegoat of the family; and he replayed that victim pattern in most of his relationships in his adult life) so there's probably nothing one can do.

Perhaps you already know inside why your mother never married him…

Definitely, I realised that early on. My mother wasn't a saint but she was stable. She had a way of talking to my father that didn't enable him; when he went through one of his antics, she'd say: "Oh you my silly little thing", with compassion of course, and laugh. That calmed him down. She just didn't take him seriously (which was good for her emotionally but probably also why she never married him). I don't have that kind of composure though, nor do I feel it is my place.

You are not crazy. You are not over reacting, and yes it smacks of enmeshment and a disturbed person.

I am sorry.  After finding your father after 30 years, you weren’t expecting this, which sounds like it is coming as a disappointment.

Trust your instincts.  They are protecting you.

Thank you. That is very validating. Yes, it is a disappointment. I've spent most of my life in the typical orphan fantasy of "if only I had parents, everything would be perfect". As a result, that made me quite impatient with the vast majority of people who do have them; I always thought, at least they have relatives, why are they complaining? Now I realise how arrogant and stupid that sentiment was. It's a learning curve which hopefully leads me to better empathise with others (and not be such an insufferable self-pitying jerk myself). So that is a major silver lining, too.

As for what to do, I would slow things down.  Don’t spend as much time together, take longer to respond to messages, reduce contact time by just being busy with life and work.  

Probably good advice. I'll be saving hundreds of Euros in train and hotel fares per month, too.

I would not expressly tell him why.  Instead, just give him the space to self soothe.  He’s an adult.  Remember that. You are not responsible for his feelings.

Indeed. I started doing this last week, after the big argument. I told him "I'm going away for two days without internet and my phone, I'll be back on Sunday". To my surprise, he didn't have a meltdown. Or if he did, he didn't show me. I do feel as if he's trying to emotionally punish me by being more withholding now, but I'm trying to ignore it.

With all these red flags I would not share anything personal with him.  You are fairly assessing that it could get weaponized against you in the future.  

Friendly and cordial, but with restraint.  

And the next time he says he should kill himself, call him on it and tell him if he says it again you will call the authorities for obvious reasons.  

My friend, it is time to set boundaries.

It is sad and unfortunate, but your concerns are real.

I am so sorry.

Not at all, thank you for your levelheaded perspective and good advice. It helps.

[Sappho11]

I've noticed that in all the photographs that my father takes of me when we're together, I look like a different person, like a worse version of myself. I've also been ill constantly these past few weeks, on average a day a week with some kind of cold, runny nose, fever, everything. It's like an allergy to dysfunction.

So there's a new layer to the birthday drama. My father has now told me that he'll spend my birthday with his niece after all, who's celebrating hers early on that very day. Of course he's playing it all down as a misunderstanding but I know full well it isn't. So it's either one of two scenarios:

1) He wanted to go to her birthday all along, and all the drama that has ensued was due to the fact that he just couldn't say: "I want to spend your birthday with you but I also want to go to my niece's birthday. Yes you are my daughter, but we've only just met, and I have this years-long tradition with my niece which I don't want to cancel." I wouldn't have been happy but I'd have understood. I'd probably even have gone to this party just to make everyone happy.

I'm disappointed now because of all of the wasted tears and emotions for nothing, the fact that I've now got no plans for my birthday, and that I'll be spending it alone, once again, as usual. I'll try to find something else to do but I already know that self-pity will get the better of me once the day comes around, and I resent that.

Possible scenario 2:

2) He's subconsciously trying to punish me for the recent argument which he started. Actually, the more I think of it, the more that seems likely. I offered him a compromise: To have breakfast together on my birthday and then him going to his niece's party, which only starts at lunch. But he's giving me flimsy excuses for why that's not possible, when in fact, if he wanted to, he would.

He's also been weird in the past couple of days, though I can't exactly put my finger on it. Just some remarks he makes here and there and a general reduction in communication.

Oh, no, now that I type it all out, I do see it. This again... makes me think of a third scenario:

3) He's hoping to get more narcissistic supply from her than from me since I've recently proved I'm not the unconditional source he thought.

So at best, he's emotionally immature and/or depressed; at worst, he's disordered. No telling yet. I'll be on my guard from now on.

Well, here's to another half a lifetime without a father. I've really got to re-read the "How to heal from emotionally immature parents" book, especially the chapter on how to deal with them in the future, a chapter I never thought I'd need.

I'm trying to remind myself it's a bad day, not a bad life. Off to work on my own issues now.

[Methuen]

Maybe his decision to spend your birthday elsewhere provides you with the opportunity to move on and forward.

In one of your posts you mentioned a level headed friend.  Is this a friend you could arrange to do something with on or around your birthday?  They don’t even have to know it’s your birthday.

We once treated two couples friends to a dinner out at a fun restaurant with great food.  We had the best time.  We never told them it was our anniversary until it was over.  They thought it was pretty special.

If that doesn’t fit, then think of something you’ve always wanted to do, and do it.    A class of some kind?  A performance?  A road trip?  Treat yourself and go do it.  It’s a way we can parent ourselves since our parents can’t or didn’t do nice things for us.  

Treat little Sappho11 (your inner child) to something she will enjoy with you.

In the past, I have gone for a hike with a friend on my birthday.  For me, it still recognized the day, and was something I enjoyed doing.  Sometimes it makes sense to honour ourselves intrinsically, even if the external attention we wished for from a parent isn’t there.  

On my last B-day, my daughter picked up my mom and brought her to our house for the dinner H and I cooked on my B-day.  Drama ensued with my mom saying she didn’t want to be with us, and saying she just wanted to die.  She got on the couch and wouldn’t stop complaining and fighting and saying how sick she was, so someone took her home. Then she was happy and felt better.  Go figure.  Sometimes our parent just can’t be present for us.

Honestly, if this is the way your dad is, better to know it now, cut your losses, grieve it, and move on.  

Then you can plan something nice  for your day that he can’t ruin.  

It’s ok to spend your B-day doing something you enjoy and being kind to yourself, or, spend it with friends.  Many people do this for one reason or another. It’s ok.

[Methuen]

 

3) He's hoping to get more narcissistic supply from her than from me since I've recently proved I'm not the unconditional source he thought.

If I was a betting person, I would put my money on this one.

[Notwendy]

This, to me, shows how significant a parent is- that even if there's been no contact with them for 30 years- there's still the desire to connect with that parent, if possible.

But maybe the connection we wish we have isn't possible? For that to happen - the parent needs to be capable of that.

The other aspect of this is that our ideas of our parents are formed when we are children. We don't see them as humans with both strong points and imperfect too- as children we don't have the capacity to understand adult relationships. You have probably had ideas about your father based on what you were able to comprehend.

Now that you have met him, you can see him from the adult perspective. There's no bond formed in childhood- you are as if two adults are meeting. What seems to be going on here is a sort of pulling "Daddy" expectations without having been a father to you and a sense of you meeting his needs. I think your boundary of a hotel makes sense- staying overnight with essentially strangers would not be comfortable unless you knew them better. Dumping his feelings on you.

For those of us who have parents with BPD- it's hard to know what "normal" is when it comes to these relationships. But your gut is telling you this isn't OK. Your heart wants a father- understandable- that is what a child wants but I will also propose that if this man was the kind of father you wish for, he'd have done all he could to find you during this time.

Parents with PD's tend to see their children's purpose as serving their needs. Is that what you see here?

Your father may be genuinely happy to see you, but I think you see his limitations too. I think it's good that you have reconnected in the sense that you can see the father you have from the perspective of an adult. Before, you had a child's version of him. In a way, you see him similarly to how your mother did - not romantically of course- but as a person who can be charismatic, but also has his other side- and perhaps with the understanding why your mother loved him at first- but then decided to keep her distance.

I agree with Methuen- this isn't someone to get close to, or vulnerable with. He seems to have either NPD characteristics or is emotionally immature and limited in his capacity to act in the way you wish a father would act towards you. Your gut tells you to be cautious. I think it's OK to trust your gut with this.

[Sappho11]

Maybe his decision to spend your birthday elsewhere provides you with the opportunity to move on and forward.

In one of your posts you mentioned a level headed friend.  Is this a friend you could arrange to do something with on or around your birthday?  They don’t even have to know it’s your birthday.

We once treated two couples friends to a dinner out at a fun restaurant with great food.  We had the best time.  We never told them it was our anniversary until it was over.  They thought it was pretty special.

If that doesn’t fit, then think of something you’ve always wanted to do, and do it.    A class of some kind?  A performance?  A road trip?  Treat yourself and go do it.  It’s a way we can parent ourselves since our parents can’t or didn’t do nice things for us.  

Treat little Sappho11 (your inner child) to something she will enjoy with you.

In the past, I have gone for a hike with a friend on my birthday.  For me, it still recognized the day, and was something I enjoyed doing.  Sometimes it makes sense to honour ourselves intrinsically, even if the external attention we wished for from a parent isn’t there.  

On my last B-day, my daughter picked up my mom and brought her to our house for the dinner H and I cooked on my B-day.  Drama ensued with my mom saying she didn’t want to be with us, and saying she just wanted to die.  She got on the couch and wouldn’t stop complaining and fighting and saying how sick she was, so someone took her home. Then she was happy and felt better.  Go figure.  Sometimes our parent just can’t be present for us.

Honestly, if this is the way your dad is, better to know it now, cut your losses, grieve it, and move on.  

Then you can plan something nice  for your day that he can’t ruin.  

It’s ok to spend your B-day doing something you enjoy and being kind to yourself, or, spend it with friends.  Many people do this for one reason or another. It’s ok.

Thank you, yes. I am not married or have children, so my father and everyone tied to him are the only family I have. I am not going to renounce that. This might be difficult to understand, but I have been on my own, and by that I mean completely, almost all my life. Trust me when I say it is not a pleasant way to live. You're constantly living on the edge – not just emotionally, but in very practical matters too. People need other people. And right now it is even worse, because I moved to a new country six months ago and so far I do not have a local social net in place yet.

I'm not going to cut ties because the pros still far outweigh the cons. I'm reasonably versed in radical acceptance, so I'll enforce the necessary boundaries with my father. I'll happily spend time with him when he acts like a normal human being, and when he has his tantrums, I won't engage, I'll withdraw. He'll get the picture eventually. And if he doesn't, I'm willing to repeat the process.

Attached to him are also a grandmother, an aunt, an uncle, cousins, all of whom I'd love to get to know... not to mention his lovely wife, my new "step-mother", her daughters and grandchildren. I'm already very fond of both her, the one step-sister I have met and her husband, and I do want all of these people to be in my life.

As for my father's behaviour, I've made an analytical table with all of them and I've figured it out now. We have had about five or six of these bizarre "incidents" so far and his algorithm is always the same whenever I set a boundary with him:

1) React impulsively and hurt and make the matter worse. Be completely resistant to calm explanations or rational argument.

2) Accuse me of attacking him, of being unreasonable and violent, even when I just calmly explain the situation. Favourite methods:

- "You are violent/upset about nothing/too sensitive/capricious“
- "You are hurting me“
- "There are two different Sapphos, a loving one and this one“ etc.

These are always the same, so easy enough to tune out that particular signal with a bit of practice.

3) Pretend to be understanding and sweet to manipulate me into doing what he wants. (Sometimes this step happens earlier.)

4) If I still don't oblige, try to do it with guilt-tripping.

5) If this doesn't succeed and I continue in my calm reasoning, slowly relent and find "reasons" on why he couldn't have agreed earlier, to deflect the shame. Does not accept responsibility for his overreaction, unless it is to self-flagellate in a hope to elicit a change of mind in me.

6) Call everything a "misunderstanding" and ask to gloss it over, to move on as if nothing happened.

7) Be regretful and go back to being sweet and kind. At this point he respects my boundary and it (generally) isn't questioned again.

Dysfunctional? Yes. But there are two key points that make me willing to give him the benefit of the doubt: He never actively tears me down, he doesn't use invective or insult, contrarily, he always stresses he still loves me, but he just sinks into a spiral of self-loathing and fear of abandonment which completely blinds him. After two hours or so, he's out of it and begins thinking clearly again. He then actually accepts the boundary. Apart from these outbursts, he actually is a loving and caring father.

Solution: In the future, state a boundary, let him deal with his emotions for a day, then resume communication the day afterwards. And see whether that improves things. – I'm willing to give it a try. I just feel sorry for his lovely wife because I know he'll chew her ear off in the meantime. She's a strong lady though, I think she can handle it – like my mother, she doesn't enable him.

[Sappho11]

This, to me, shows how significant a parent is- that even if there's been no contact with them for 30 years- there's still the desire to connect with that parent, if possible.

That's very true. I haven't had any other parent during that time either, which makes it worse. Finally, he's the very person I wanted as a father when I was a little girl – so that desire goes back a long time.

But maybe the connection we wish we have isn't possible? For that to happen - the parent needs to be capable of that.

Indeed. I think for the large part he is. He generally is good what concerns sensitive conversations. He can be gentle, caring and kind. I even think that he truly does do his best within his limitations. But a stable, unshakeable bedrock, he is NOT. That's fine.

The other aspect of this is that our ideas of our parents are formed when we are children. We don't see them as humans with both strong points and imperfect too- as children we don't have the capacity to understand adult relationships. You have probably had ideas about your father based on what you were able to comprehend.

Now that you have met him, you can see him from the adult perspective.

Yes, that helps a lot. I've frequently thought that the whole separation might have been a blessing in disguise. I'm certain he was very domineering towards my half-sister who grew up with him and who cut ties with him. If I had grown up with him, I don't think we'd be in touch today either. A child/teenager doesn't have the rational defenses not to internalise everything the parent says. I need to switch out of child mode and into adult mode.

There's no bond formed in childhood- you are as if two adults are meeting.

I might not have stated this, but I do remember him from childhood (even though we didn't spend much time together). When we met again, it was as if not a second had passed, it was unsettling. So the expectation of a father-daughter dynamic is not entirely unreasonable.

What seems to be going on here is a sort of pulling "Daddy" expectations without having been a father to you and a sense of you meeting his needs.

Yes, that's definitely a problem.

I think your boundary of a hotel makes sense- staying overnight with essentially strangers would not be comfortable unless you knew them better. Dumping his feelings on you.

For those of us who have parents with BPD- it's hard to know what "normal" is when it comes to these relationships. But your gut is telling you this isn't OK. Your heart wants a father- understandable- that is what a child wants but I will also propose that if this man was the kind of father you wish for, he'd have done all he could to find you during this time.

It's a long and sad story but it would indeed have been impossible to find me. My father lived in one country, my mother and I in another, and when she passed away, I was sent to a third with people who actively undermined him finding me. My last name was also changed several times by foster and step families. To boot, this was all during a time before the Internet was what it is today. He did try to find me but he failed, which is also a source of tremendous guilt and shame for him. I'm not making excuses but here he doesn't deserve all the blame.

Parents with PD's tend to see their children's purpose as serving their needs. Is that what you see here?

There's definitely a strong component of that. It's not entirely malignant however. My father has been struggling to give meaning to his life, and has openly talked about it. Clearly it's not healthy for me to be the sole reason for his existence, which I have told him. He always does back off when I tell him something is too much (he's old now and I do think he's learnt from the case with my half-sister). If he manages to keep this up, I do believe a good relationship is possible.

Your father may be genuinely happy to see you, but I think you see his limitations too. I think it's good that you have reconnected in the sense that you can see the father you have from the perspective of an adult. Before, you had a child's version of him. In a way, you see him similarly to how your mother did - not romantically of course- but as a person who can be charismatic, but also has his other side- and perhaps with the understanding why your mother loved him at first- but then decided to keep her distance.

I agree with Methuen- this isn't someone to get close to, or vulnerable with. He seems to have either NPD characteristics or is emotionally immature and limited in his capacity to act in the way you wish a father would act towards you. Your gut tells you to be cautious. I think it's OK to trust your gut with this.

Thank you.

[Sappho11]

It just occurs to me that none of what I'm saying might be applicable, based on the simple fact that I have no idea what a normal parent-child relationship is like, what a child can reasonably expect from a parent (especially an adult child), and vice versa. Are there any resources for this where one can read up on this?

[Sappho11]

I've turned off notifications for his text messages and that has already done me a world of good. I still check them, but when it's convenient. I should probably find a similar way to tune out his emails, maybe hide them in a subfolder or automatically mark them as read. That way I only see them when he's long cooled down and I spare myself endless explanation matches. Hopefully.

[SinisterComplex]

Perhaps some of these tools will be of use to you ;-)

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329745.0

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Sappho11]

Thank you SC, I'll have a look!

So something curious happened. After ripe deliberation, I wrote my father an email asking him to in the future tell me things directly instead of trying to influence me indirectly. I told him that I loved him and that he had every right to utter his wishes flat out, without having to dissemble them. That I would not always fulfil them but that I'd endeavour to do so if it was within my own possibilities. That his recent actions caused me a lot of grief that could have been avoided, that this certainly wasn't his intention, that he was probably only afraid of me saying "no". That he would have to learn to deal with that because me saying "no" was always a possibility since we're both adults, but that it didn't mean I love him less, it just means I have a different view of things in certain regards.

I expected a meltdown over this in BPD fashion, but what happened?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. He completely ignored the email (we've exchanged normal, daily-life texts since). The only messages of mine he ignores are the ones that touch upon his childhood in some regard, especially when I hint at possible wounds he carries from that time. He's usually a huge extrovert but he goes all quiet when that happens. From what I gather, he grew up in a household with a domineering, criticising father who constantly tore him down and sabotaged his aspirations. My father was the oldest son, but sensitive and artistic, and his stern father seems to have tried to beat that out of him (we're talking about an upbringing in an impoverished, polluted industrial ghetto in the 1950s). So my father's coping strategy, to this day, is to pretend not to have any wishes, instead trying to either strongarm (in his profession, where he was quite successful) or coax (in his private life) people into doing what he wants.

I'm beginning to think my father isn't personality-disordered, he just has a lot of stuff in his own past that he never faced up to. I'm not his therapist and won't attempt to drag it out of him, nor attempt to "cure" him. That's his business. My business is to set boundaries against behaviour I don't tolerate.

Takeaway from the story: Never thought I'd be grateful about my horror relationship with my diagnosed BPD ex. The psychology deep dive that ensued is sure coming in handy now.

I guess there's always a silver lining.

[Notwendy]

People can have traits that may overlap with those of PD's while not meeting the criteria for diagnoses. I think the main thing is to pay attention to your feelings in the relationship and have boundaries when you feel you need to.

I don't think anyone has suggested you don't have a relationship with him- I think it's more about boundaries and how close a relationship. Time will tell on this one. I think it's good that you have reconnected- so that you get to know him. You've wondered about him since you were a child. You will now get to know who he is.

In some way, the feeling of wanting a parent can happen even if that parent is present. I don't think it's the same as how you have felt with an absent parent- but I think there's similarities- because a disordered parent can also be absent emotionally and behaviorally due to their disorder. My father has acted as a parent to me but my mother doesn't act like a mother. So I would notice how other mothers acted with their children. I understand the wish you have for a relationship with your father.

As you know, any relationship involves both people. BPD is on a spectrum and for my mother, the extent of her BPD limits her relationships with anyone. Your father will be able to relate to you to the extent that he can- whether or not he has a PD. You've already seen his reluctance to discuss some topics- maybe he will in time and maybe not- but you are aware that this is off the table for him now.

I think you are right that the relationship tools we have are helpful in relationships- you gained experience with your ex.

[Sappho11]

More drama.

My father wants to legally acknowledge me as his daughter, but there have been roadblocks. I have nationality A, was born in country B, and my birth certificate still lists my mother's ex-husband as my father. Country B is unwilling to erase that guy from the record which makes the formal acknowledgment impossible in Country C, where I live and which is my father's home and nationality.

My father, on the other hand, thought everything would be super-easy and kept going on for months on how this legal acknowledgment was his absolute priority, that he'd do everything to make it happen, etc. And I do believe him: I think he does really want that. Frankly he didn't know what he was up against. When he realised that there would be difficulties, he nearly immediately threw in the towel (but not without writing me a morose two-page letter on how disappointing this all was).

Thanks to Herculean efforts and pulling every trick in the book with my home country's authorities, I've managed to clear the massive roadblocks myself: Country A is now even willing to furnish me with a new birth certificate even though I wasn't even born there. You've read that right. This document can then be used to legalise the paternity in my father's (and my current) country. In other words, I've made the impossible possible.

My father only needs to do two things: get a passport and an international birth certificate for himself, something that's easily done with taking a short trip to his local registrar's office. And guess what! He's now bickering about having to go through these banal, low-effort formalities. The most bizarre aspect of this is his unexplained refusal to get a passport. I've seen the ID he uses – it's his driving licence from the 1960s. I kid you not. I know he's concerned about his age but it's like he's unwilling to face up to the fact that his youth has passed and he happens to be a septuagenarian now. A bit like a reverse Dorian Gray. His vanity is such that it is now actively in the way of what he described as his "greatest wish" for which he "would do anything".

That reminds me, one of the first thing that struck me as unpleasant about him was his habit of making rude remarks about passersby and their looks, their age, their weight. I once reprimanded him to at least do it quietly, since those people have feelings, too. His cheery response: "Yeah, but I don't care." That was the first thing I found concerning.

He had about ten years in his youth where he was quite good-looking, but he's mostly been overweight, overworked, depressed and all that has left traces. Some old folks look charming and cute. My father's wife does. He doesn't. Yet he goes around arbiting moral judgement on the subject of physical beauty whenever he can. It's probably his own insecurity talking but that's no excuse.

Anyway... after the birthday drama, I've lately dialled back communication. Also because I have a massive backlog of work to clear up, which will probably take me until early December. I've told my father that. Yet every day he keeps asking: "Still so much work?" Yesterday he even sent me a long text telling me that I should tell him if she should stop writing, if he was getting on my nerves, and so on and so forth... it's exhausting.

I'm getting the sense that if I don't constantly and effusively communicate with him, he'll change his mind. At this point, I'm beginning to wonder why I am going through all of this trouble. If he does, so be it. I'm done with these antics.

[Sappho11]

Also, regarding the birthday, one of my favourite friends happens to be passing through town that day, so we're going to meet up. I was very happy about this and told my father. I got the sense that he resented that. It did remind me of my BPD ex-boyfriend though: unwilling to inconvenience himself for me, and then being annoyed when other people do.

And I'm having the same thoughts again: Maybe I'm being ungrateful... he's doing a lot of other things... etc. etc. The thing that keeps me grounded are friends who see the whole thing with a healthy dose of scepticism. The problem is that I still have absolutely no benchmark for what a normal reciprocal parent-child relationship looks like.

[Sappho11]

Sometimes I wonder whether it is I who is the crazy one.

My birthday is coming up, and in the drama that unfolded, my father once asked whether he could at least send me flowers. I didn't reply because it was asked in a flurry of other questions, because I didn't like the idea and because I knew he'd have another meltdown if I turned it down. I mostly didn't like it for practical reasons (I own no vase and have nowhere to put a big bouquet in my tiny metropolitan apartment), but most of all I resented it because it seemed it wasn't a gesture of kindness, but something for him to assuage his guilt about the whole birthday drama, as well as something to potentially hold over my head later.

This morning (it isn't my birthday) he texts me to stay in at morning, because "it is cold until the afternoon". I thought that was odd but he often has odd ideas.

Turns out he was trying to get me to stay home to receive a delivery of flowers. You do not believe what a soap opera such a simple thing can turn into.

I should preface this by saying that I hate having my day interrupted by unannounced visitors, I hate talking on the phone, especially to strangers, and after working 70+ hour work weeks lately, I just wanted to be alone and in peace. My father knows all of this.

Nonetheless, he tried to send me flowers, but of course that didn't pan out. I live in a big city, deliverers are usually both exploited and poorly educated here, and mixups happen all the time. On top of that, the delivery guy had the wrong street (likely my father's fault, as there's another similarly-named one nearby and they're easily mixed up). I spent half an hour on the phone with this guy who spoke neither the local language nor English, unsuccessfully trying to tell him that he had the wrong street. It also tied me to the house for hours, waiting to see if he'd show up or not. Eventually I got so frustrated and told him "just keep the flowers, I don't want them anyway, just tell them you've delivered them".

Of course that's not how it went down, and instead I ended up in a bizarre loop trying to mediate between my father (who was in a rage at this point about the innocent florist and delivery guy), the poor florist and the hapless delivery guy for several hours. In between, a dozen phone calls, just as many messages on my voicemail, and a phone that doesn't stop ringing. Introvert nightmare. I've now turned off my phone because I'm frankly overwhelmed. The day started off nice and quiet, but the whole thing stirred considerable anxiety in me.

The crown of this was my father: "Can you take a picture of what you've received? I want to see whether it's what I ordered." Followed by complaints of how terrible he was feeling physically today (unrelated to this, and due to actions which were entirely his fault).

At this point I frankly just want to be left alone.

[Methuen]

Classic.  Just classic.

My metaphor for this type of chaos is being in the eye of a storm.

Sometimes I wonder whether it is I who is the crazy one.

I think the BPD behaviors make us all a bit crazy. But remember that "crazy" didn't start with you in this case.  That's where we have to stop and check ourselves.  We can't let the blame/gaslighting win.

I can just totally relate.  Not to a flower to delivery, but a lifetime of other incidents causing the same chaos and frustration and distress and energy sucking drain you have just described.

Everybody has to respond in their own way.  I would never suggest what someone else should do, as everybody's situations and personalities are completely unique.

What I would do (knowing nothing else but what you've described) is block him until you are feeling better.  It is time to look after your own nervous system (on/around your birthday). This is self care.

1) He asked if he could send flowers.  You never replied.  The implied answer to his question, is "no" because he asked and you never gave consent.

2) You are not obligated to send a picture of the flowers.  Whose need would this be meeting?  Not yours, and it's your birthday.  If I substitute my mom for your dad in this story, if she is in a rage, it's probably because she already spoke to the florist and knows something is amiss.  Why else would she be in a rage?  Communicating with her at this point would only add fuel to the fire.  pwBPD like a big fight.  I am not obligated to have that difficult and emotional conversation with her just because she sent flowers I never consented to (since she asked).

At this point I frankly just want to be left alone.

I think it's good that you acknowledge this.  Honour yourself, practice self-compassion, and let yourself be alone, and do things that calm you, relax you, and help you to get back to your baseline.

If things change, and you decide you want to talk to your dad, that's ok too.  

Look inside, and do whatever is best for little Sappho.  She needs some parenting and nurturing from big Sappho right now.

[Methuen]

Another thought, this is exactly the kind of thing that gets me ruminating.  Ruminating is a way to try to resolve the chaos, but it's kinda hard to resolve anything where BPD is involved, so I personally find ruminating more harmful than helpful.

Maybe you don't do this, and if you don't, hats off to you because you've got things figured out.  If you don't ruminate, you can stop reading now.  If you do, I'm working hard to address this in myself, so I'm going to go out on a limb and share a couple of things, because I don't want your birth day/weekend to be ruined by this.

1) Grounding exercise.  Someone on this board a while back share 5-4-3-2-1.  I find it helps interrupt the ruminating somewhat.

2) Tapping.  There have been conversations about "tapping" therapy.  I googled this recently, and tried it yesterday (there's a pdf online I printed off that shows the meridians and tapping points).  It worked for me.  Again, it interrupted the ruminating, especially since I preceded it with the grounding 54321 exercise.

3) Yesterday my T suggested another strategy.  She said to write down (or word process) what happened and my resulting feelings.  Get it "all out". Then crumple up the paper, and put it at the back of top corner of the highest and most inconvenient shelf in my kitchen.  Every time I start ruminating again, I can only ruminate if I go get the crumpled piece of paper and take it out.  You get the idea.  Might not work for everyone.  But I like this.  I'm short, and I'll be darned if I'm going to go get a ladder every time I find myself sinking into ruminating. 

I just thought I would share.

I hope you are feeling better, and can enjoy the rest of your weekend.

[Notwendy]

The creepy part of this is that the interaction on his part is coupled with an emotional need on his part. Gifts from my BPD mother are like this. So the interaction feels creepy.  She rarely sends me anything and actually it's more comfortable for me when she doesn't.

I think there's some good that is coming out of your reconnecting with your father in that- I think if you had not done this- you'd have this imaginary father and wondering what he's like. Now, you have the opportunity to know who he is and while it's a possibly difficult situation- the boundaries are yours to decide on. Before this- you were a child- he made the choices and you had no say in this. The choice of how much contact to have with him is your choice now too.

[Sappho11]

Classic.  Just classic.

My metaphor for this type of chaos is being in the eye of a storm.

Thank you. That's exactly what it feels like.
 

I think the BPD behaviors make us all a bit crazy. But remember that "crazy" didn't start with you in this case.  That's where we have to stop and check ourselves.  We can't let the blame/gaslighting win.

Agreed. I've been through this scenario with several people now. It's time to apply the lessons learnt.

I can just totally relate.  Not to a flower to delivery, but a lifetime of other incidents causing the same chaos and frustration and distress and energy sucking drain you have just described.

I honestly feel foolish because why is such a simple thing so complicated and energy-consuming? But I guess that's just the nature of dysfunction. With my BPD high school friend and BPD ex, it was the same thing – the smallest things becoming huge problems.

Everybody has to respond in their own way.  I would never suggest what someone else should do, as everybody's situations and personalities are completely unique.

What I would do (knowing nothing else but what you've described) is block him until you are feeling better.  It is time to look after your own nervous system (on/around your birthday). This is self care.

I've turned off his notifications and I only check whether he's written a couple of times a day. That has already helped.

1) He asked if he could send flowers.  You never replied.  The implied answer to his question, is "no" because he asked and you never gave consent.

2) You are not obligated to send a picture of the flowers.  Whose need would this be meeting?  Not yours, and it's your birthday.  If I substitute my mom for your dad in this story, if she is in a rage, it's probably because she already spoke to the florist and knows something is amiss.  Why else would she be in a rage?  Communicating with her at this point would only add fuel to the fire.  pwBPD like a big fight.  I am not obligated to have that difficult and emotional conversation with her just because she sent flowers I never consented to (since she asked).
 I think it's good that you acknowledge this.  Honour yourself, practice self-compassion, and let yourself be alone, and do things that calm you, relax you, and help you to get back to your baseline.

If things change, and you decide you want to talk to your dad, that's ok too.  

Look inside, and do whatever is best for little Sappho.  She needs some parenting and nurturing from big Sappho right now.

Thank you. All very helpful. I'm often at a loss because I grew up in dysfunctional foster homes (all much worse than this scenario)  and I really have no idea on what is reasonable or not.

[Sappho11]

Another thought, this is exactly the kind of thing that gets me ruminating.  Ruminating is a way to try to resolve the chaos, but it's kinda hard to resolve anything where BPD is involved, so I personally find ruminating more harmful than helpful.

Maybe you don't do this, and if you don't, hats off to you because you've got things figured out.  If you don't ruminate, you can stop reading now.  If you do, I'm working hard to address this in myself, so I'm going to go out on a limb and share a couple of things, because I don't want your birth day/weekend to be ruined by this.

1) Grounding exercise.  Someone on this board a while back share 5-4-3-2-1.  I find it helps interrupt the ruminating somewhat.

2) Tapping.  There have been conversations about "tapping" therapy.  I googled this recently, and tried it yesterday (there's a pdf online I printed off that shows the meridians and tapping points).  It worked for me.  Again, it interrupted the ruminating, especially since I preceded it with the grounding 54321 exercise.

3) Yesterday my T suggested another strategy.  She said to write down (or word process) what happened and my resulting feelings.  Get it "all out". Then crumple up the paper, and put it at the back of top corner of the highest and most inconvenient shelf in my kitchen.  Every time I start ruminating again, I can only ruminate if I go get the crumpled piece of paper and take it out.  You get the idea.  Might not work for everyone.  But I like this.  I'm short, and I'll be darned if I'm going to go get a ladder every time I find myself sinking into ruminating. 

I just thought I would share.

I hope you are feeling better, and can enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Also thank you for this. Grounding exercises are good. I've been doing Zen meditation for most of my adult life which has a similar effect.

My method when I'm upset is usually to open a word processor and type "What am I feeling?" Then I type out adjectives, stream-of-consciousness style. Followed by: "Why am I feeling this way?" and describe the situation. Usually it turns out that it isn't just one little thing, it's a dozen little things that add up to a big thing. Lastly, "Is this reasonable?" and "Solution:" where I try to look at my interpretation of things objectively and figure out a way to proceed. Agency helps a lot.

[Sappho11]

The creepy part of this is that the interaction on his part is coupled with an emotional need on his part. Gifts from my BPD mother are like this. So the interaction feels creepy.  She rarely sends me anything and actually it's more comfortable for me when she doesn't.

Yes, exactly. Seeing this from the other side explains so much to me, though: Why I don't get along with other "nice" people of the same sort, and also how I myself made the same mistake for years. The line between being giving and being emotionally needy is very thin, and sometimes it's difficult to tell the difference.

I think there's some good that is coming out of your reconnecting with your father in that- I think if you had not done this- you'd have this imaginary father and wondering what he's like. Now, you have the opportunity to know who he is and while it's a possibly difficult situation- the boundaries are yours to decide on. Before this- you were a child- he made the choices and you had no say in this. The choice of how much contact to have with him is your choice now too.

There's a lot of good coming out of reconnecting with my father. He can be very sweet and loving. I'm just beginning to wonder whether that was a temporary state.

[Sappho11]

So my birthday came and went. My father sent me a text first thing in the morning, wishing me a happy birthday. I said thank you and wished him a nice day. Half an hour later: "So were the chocolates and the flowers delivered?" Bloody hell, not this again. I told him I hadn't received anything. He replied with a rant, that he was really angry, that he had ordered a big bouquet of colourful flowers with a box of chocolates, that he would make a complaint etc.

I didn't reply. I knew he would be out pre-celebrating his niece's upcoming birthday with his niece and the rest of the family instead so I didn't expect any other messages that day anyway.

My own day was so-so. I met up with one of my closest friends, who happened to be passing through town that day (he still lives in my home country). We hadn't seen one another for over half a year, so that was nice. He's not the sentimental type and had no idea it was my birthday (which is fine, he's affectionate and a great friend in other ways) and, after having asked if I would mind, brought his new girlfriend along. The three of us actually had a nice chat over coffee, but I left them to their own business after an hour or two (he'd flown in for her sake after all).

When I got home, I got quite sad and uncharacteristically lonely, which I'd already anticipated. I tried to cheer myself up in the usual ways: making a decent meal, taking it easy, completing simple to-dos, watching a couple of videos on a cheer-up playlist I've made for such situations. That worked a little. After that, I took one of the best naps of my life. I hadn't even realised how tired I've been lately, I laid down and I was out like a light within ten seconds.

When I got up in the late afternoon, I realised I had received a few birthday messages from several people, which was nice.

At night, my friend from earlier that day called, asking me what I thought about his new girlfriend. (He'd been a tremendous source of support when I was with my BPD ex and he himself has a years-long battle of living with a BPD girlfriend behind him, so we're kind of each other's unbiased lookout against personality-disordered love interests now.) We had a good chat, and when we said good-bye, it slipped my tongue that his stop in town had been a nice birthday surprise today. I felt really silly – that I should have kept it to myself!

Far from that causing a big drama, my friend actually was shocked: "It was WHAT today? Oh my God. I didn't know!" As I've said, he's not the type to celebrate birthdays, he doesn't even celebrate his own. I ended up having a good laugh because last year, we had met up on my birthday for a work thing and he'd suggested to go to a French restaurant (with his little son in tow) in the evening. I'd thought at the time that it was a special gesture on his part, but it now turns out it was really just a coincidence! I guess you know you've got a good friend when you think they're giving you a birthday surprise but in fact it's just them being nice on a normal day.   Anyway, he was super-embarrassed even though I told him he didn't have to be.

Three minutes later, his girlfriend texts me: "[Our friend] just wrote me – oh my God, Happy Birthday! We should have celebrated today! If it's not too late for you, I could come over with some birthday cake?" I was close to tears when I read that. All day I'd been walking around with this nebula of vague discontent and feeling overlooked, then I beat myself up for eventually having mentioned it – and here was someone not belittling it, but acknowledging it and doing something about it. It was already quite late and I didn't want to trouble the girlfriend, so I ended up arranging going for drinks with her the next day.

No news from my father after his rant about the flowers and chocolates, no "How was your day?" "What did you end up doing?" (which he often used to send even on normal days), no nothing. I wished him a good night and he replied "good night" two hours later and sent a cool "good morning and have a nice day" this morning. I replied "you too" to which he responded telling me he would try, he'd been a lot of pain on Saturday and Sunday etc. When I asked him how he was today, he left me on read. No answer. I'm wondering whether he's really too ill to write (unlikely) or whether I'm in the devaluing phase now.

Also, pure conjecture, but I get the sense that he isn't asking about my day because it would make him feel small and even more guilty. He's often been strangely offended when I tell him about my friends, even though he tries to hide it. I just always feel that something is off.

It's a mess. I'm just happy for the people in my life who I know I can rely on. I try to remind myself that I'm an adult, that none of this is life-threatening – even if the worst were to happen, and, I don't know, I lost my livelihood, it would never again be a matter of mere survival because I 1) can rely on myself (and have, for most of my life) and 2) have at least four people in my life, one of them the friend above, who'd be willing to help in their own idiosyncratic ways.

...I really need to read that darn "Emotionally Immature Parents" book again.

[Sappho11]

From another angle, it just occurred to me that my friend, who's in the picture that it's been difficult with my father lately, but who is completely unaware of the whole birthday drama, might have put two and two together and figured out that if I wasn't celebrating my birthday with my only surviving family whom I found after almost thirty years of separation, something must be wrong. That would also explain my friend going out of his way to ask his girlfriend to be the harbinger of cake, since he's usually not the type for overtly emotional gestures. Also quite a gutsy thing to ask a new girlfriend, and lovely for the girlfriend to be so understanding and accommodating, too.

Looking at the matter from my friend's point of view: If he or any of my friends had been in the same situation, they had dropped everything to go celebrate their long-lost father's birthday, but the father hadn't so much as made time for them on theirs (even though they would even have travelled to be in his part of the country and had organised everything to do so), my reaction would have been a "What the  !" to put it mildly.

Perhaps I should look at things from the "What if this happened to a friend" angle more often.

[Notwendy]

Seems to me that you have a great friend and - that girlfriend who stepped in to help make your day a bit brighter- sounds like two kind people found each other.

I can't say what is going on with your father but my BPD mother can also be very nice and charming but a relationship with her involves meeting her own needs of source. She has sent checks to my kids. They won't accept them anymore since learning she has financial issues- but the checks  came with the expectation that they'd contact her. It's a mixed thing- they are polite - they know that good manners means saying thank you for a gift- but there's a sense of obligation there, somehow, beyond that.

Kind of like sending you flowers and candy. Nothing wrong with that ( even if you didn't want them- the act of sending isn't of itself a problem) it's that somehow this gesture didn't sit right with you- there was more to it - an obligation, wanting credit- and you could sense that.

Both your friend and your father did something we consider to be "nice" for your birthday. It felt different when your friend did it.

[livednlearned]

Happy belated birthday Sappho11  

If it's any consolation, I grew up in a home with two parents and my mother treated birthdays like an afterthought. She even complains when people celebrate birthdays. Last time she was here was my birthday and they must've realized at the last minute. In front of me they pulled out a card with no envelope, an impersonal kind that they hadn't signed. Honestly, it would feel better for them to not acknowledge my birthday than go through a charade like that.

I don't like birthdays because of the emotional pressure, but I do have a close friend who loves to give gifts and she's beyond thoughtful. She's a bit younger than my parents and if I'm being honest she's probably more of a mother figure than friend. She's hosted my parents over the years when they're on long road trips and my mother feels very threatened by her. I imagine your father may have some of this, too. He can't show up, so when other people do, he doesn't like that it shows up his own shortcomings. My mother wants the relationship I have with this friend, but because she lacks a mature personality, and she doesn't really understand intimacy, she is always out in the cold looking in. Sometimes I think it makes her mad when other people acknowledge my birthday in thoughtful ways. She apparently told my aunt to stop sending me gifts because then all the aunts had to send something.

I'm often at a loss because I grew up in dysfunctional foster homes (all much worse than this scenario)  and I really have no idea on what is reasonable or not.

I get the sense from your posts that you have excellent instincts and do know what's reasonable. It might take you some processing to get there and sort through the b.s., and you may doubt yourself, but given what you've had to survive, you're good at this. I also sense you've learned a lot from extricating yourself from your BPDx even though I'm sorry for what you had to endure to gain those bits of wisdom. I married and divorced a man with BPD and would not wish that hell on anyone.

Is it more about what to do with the information you have? Now that you know your father is emotionally immature, and probably can't consistently be a proper parent, where to go from here?

That's a similar question I have had. It took me many years to figure out how to keep myself safe so I could have a relationship on my terms with a family that has no regard for my safety or well-being. It shows up in so many dysfunctional ways that sometimes I just have to unplug my head to get a little distance and return to my own planet.

Last time I saw my mother she was winding up for a bit of weeping, which is her #1 favorite go-to when she has an agenda for me. I very politely ignored her. It's awful to look at a crying woman in her 80s and feel nothing, but her tears have no impact on me emotionally after years of using tears as a ploy to essentially put me in harm's way.

I am working on having self-love for myself in moments when someone who is supposed to love me pulls emotional stunts that repeatedly cause me harm. I no longer feel crippling guilt -- I've healed that part. But I still feel a complex bunch of emotions that I wish I could manage more ... effectively. I don't want to ignore how I feel, and I also don't want to second-guess myself. I'm not sure that conflict will ever go away, though.  

I don't know if that makes sense. Maybe it's more simple to say that I want a relationship with my dysfunctional parents, and I know they aren't going to change, and I also want there to be some kind of peace with the decision, which might be asking a bit much. I still have to interact with them, I just bring all of my skills and the whole tool belt with me when we engage. Venting is part of that but not ruminating or wishful thinking. I'm glad you have a good friend who gets what you've been through and is there for you. I have that in my H whose parents were even more toxic than mine. We can laugh about some of the behaviors that are absurd, but more importantly, he is there when I'm straight up angry, validating my outrage. And vice versa.

You also have all of us here. To a person, people are going to understand the dilemma, including how to navigate the emotions when a parent is failing at their job.

[Sappho11]

Seems to me that you have a great friend and - that girlfriend who stepped in to help make your day a bit brighter- sounds like two kind people found each other.

Agreed. I have confidence in the girl and I hope my friend doesn't mess up 

I can't say what is going on with your father but my BPD mother can also be very nice and charming but a relationship with her involves meeting her own needs of source. She has sent checks to my kids. They won't accept them anymore since learning she has financial issues- but the checks  came with the expectation that they'd contact her. It's a mixed thing- they are polite - they know that good manners means saying thank you for a gift- but there's a sense of obligation there, somehow, beyond that.

Kind of like sending you flowers and candy. Nothing wrong with that ( even if you didn't want them- the act of sending isn't of itself a problem) it's that somehow this gesture didn't sit right with you- there was more to it - an obligation, wanting credit- and you could sense that.

Both your friend and your father did something we consider to be "nice" for your birthday. It felt different when your friend did it.

Yes, thank you. Excellent point. And very true.

[Sappho11]

Happy belated birthday Sappho11  

Thank you!

If it's any consolation, I grew up in a home with two parents and my mother treated birthdays like an afterthought. She even complains when people celebrate birthdays. Last time she was here was my birthday and they must've realized at the last minute. In front of me they pulled out a card with no envelope, an impersonal kind that they hadn't signed. Honestly, it would feel better for them to not acknowledge my birthday than go through a charade like that.

I don't like birthdays because of the emotional pressure, but I do have a close friend who loves to give gifts and she's beyond thoughtful. She's a bit younger than my parents and if I'm being honest she's probably more of a mother figure than friend. She's hosted my parents over the years when they're on long road trips and my mother feels very threatened by her. I imagine your father may have some of this, too. He can't show up, so when other people do, he doesn't like that it shows up his own shortcomings. My mother wants the relationship I have with this friend, but because she lacks a mature personality, and she doesn't really understand intimacy, she is always out in the cold looking in. Sometimes I think it makes her mad when other people acknowledge my birthday in thoughtful ways. She apparently told my aunt to stop sending me gifts because then all the aunts had to send something.

That sounds terrible. I'm sorry you had to grow up like that. I get why a perfunctory gesture would be even worse – because it's not performed for your sake, but theirs. I'm glad you had a good friend who was able to fill in the role of a mother a bit.

I get the sense from your posts that you have excellent instincts and do know what's reasonable. It might take you some processing to get there and sort through the b.s., and you may doubt yourself, but given what you've had to survive, you're good at this. I also sense you've learned a lot from extricating yourself from your BPDx even though I'm sorry for what you had to endure to gain those bits of wisdom. I married and divorced a man with BPD and would not wish that hell on anyone.

Is it more about what to do with the information you have? Now that you know your father is emotionally immature, and probably can't consistently be a proper parent, where to go from here?

That's it exactly. I think I'm going through a kind of grieving process without consciously realising it. I'm not really losing a father – I've spent my entire life without him anyway – but I'm definitely losing the lifelong idea that everything would be well, if I only had a living relative. It was a nice fantasy to cling to and now needs to be let go.

That's a similar question I have had. It took me many years to figure out how to keep myself safe so I could have a relationship on my terms with a family that has no regard for my safety or well-being. It shows up in so many dysfunctional ways that sometimes I just have to unplug my head to get a little distance and return to my own planet.

Last time I saw my mother she was winding up for a bit of weeping, which is her #1 favorite go-to when she has an agenda for me. I very politely ignored her. It's awful to look at a crying woman in her 80s and feel nothing, but her tears have no impact on me emotionally after years of using tears as a ploy to essentially put me in harm's way.

I am working on having self-love for myself in moments when someone who is supposed to love me pulls emotional stunts that repeatedly cause me harm. I no longer feel crippling guilt -- I've healed that part. But I still feel a complex bunch of emotions that I wish I could manage more ... effectively. I don't want to ignore how I feel, and I also don't want to second-guess myself. I'm not sure that conflict will ever go away, though.  

I don't know if that makes sense. Maybe it's more simple to say that I want a relationship with my dysfunctional parents, and I know they aren't going to change, and I also want there to be some kind of peace with the decision, which might be asking a bit much. I still have to interact with them, I just bring all of my skills and the whole tool belt with me when we engage. Venting is part of that but not ruminating or wishful thinking. I'm glad you have a good friend who gets what you've been through and is there for you. I have that in my H whose parents were even more toxic than mine. We can laugh about some of the behaviors that are absurd, but more importantly, he is there when I'm straight up angry, validating my outrage. And vice versa.

You also have all of us here. To a person, people are going to understand the dilemma, including how to navigate the emotions when a parent is failing at their job.

Thank you for your compassion.

[Sappho11]

Last night I went for drinks with my friend's new girlfriend. She's absolutely lovely (even asked the waiter for a candle to stick on my cake, to celebrate after all). She and my friend are complete opposite personalities – think cat vs Golden Retriever energy (and my friend is the cat) but they really mellow one another out, and I hope it works out for them.

News from my father. He asked me how I was but didn't at all react to my answer. Instead, he told me he's been in a lot of physical pain in the past three days. The reason has varied: first it was overtraining, then lumbago, then the kidneys, now it's I don't know what. Well I do, it's psychosomatic. This morning, cleverly sandwiched-in after a charming message, he tells of how ill he felt the past three days, that he couldn't move at all... so I asked him whether he hadn't gone to celebrate with his niece? "Oh no, I felt so ill, it would have been impossible to make the journey..." I don't know if he's lying or not. I thought about going on Facebook to see whether his nieces posted pictures but I remembered he deactivated all his public records about half a year ago (incidentally when I first sent him a message there, which he claimed he never received), and we're not connected on FB, so if such photos exist, I wouldn't know. At this point I wouldn't put it past him that he really went there, had a good time, and now cranks up the pity mill so that I'll feel bad for him. Perhaps he really didn't go because a subconscious part of him knows he acted like a jackass towards de-facto the only daughter he still has, and it manifested psychosomatically, which wouldn't be improbable. Either way, I have very little compassion for him at this point. He also mentioned several times how scared he is of an upcoming colonoscopy and added today how afraid he was that doctors might find cancer. (It's a routine checkup, he's in good health and has zero reason to assume this.) Yeah, I'm not going down that line of argument.

Maybe it's petty, but the more distance I have from him, the more I see how unacceptable his entire behaviour has been. I went to huge troubles to find him, to spend time with him, to surprise him on his birthday, took time off during the week, travelled to his part of the country multiple times to spend time with him etc. I consented to spending my birthday with him because he asked me to, I organised everything, booked trains and hotel, etc. Then he changes his mind because I don't 100% go along with what he wants and as a result, he suddenly can't even give me the time of day on my own birthday, leaving me to shoulder now-wasted travel and accommodation costs on top of everything. In between, he tries to manipulate me by hinting at suicide multiple times, and causes trouble by imposing his ideas on what little shred of agency had left for that day. My birthday ends up botched and lonely because it was too short notice to make other plans. Now, after the fact, he still doesn't ask what I ended up doing, how I felt the day of.

Even I can't reason away the dysfunction, the blatant disregard for my feelings, the lack of empathy.

I'm now also beginning to question what happened to all the online messages I sent him on Facebook and other portals over the years, which he claims he's never received. He only replied when I sent him a physical letter – which his wife would have seen – but even so, I never received his first reply (which he allegedly sent), only the second, in which he berated and insulted me for not replying to his supposed first letter swiftly. The whole thing made absolutely no sense at the time, especially since he was so lovely and enthusiastic at the beginning, when we finally did meet. Looking at it from the "possibly disordered" angle however, I'm now seeing the possibility that maybe he did receive everything, maybe he did read everything, but he wasn't able to face up to his own shortcomings as a father until they were threatened to be revealed to his surroundings, and then he put on this elaborate act which lasted for a good two months – possibly fuelled by the circumstance that I do resemble my mother, whom he did revere, and the fact that I get along well with people in this country and he thought I was boosting his value in the family. Eventually he exhausted himself and the mask slipped. Now it's difficult to put it back on. At least that's the sense that I'm getting.