Sex as a Test After or During Arguments/Abuse

[HurtAndTired]

My uBPD wife has a habit of turning on a dime after, or sometimes even during, a blowout fight and demanding sex. Needless to say, getting told what a worthless piece of trash you are, a terrible husband, an awful father, the worst mistake she has ever made, etc. is NOT a turn-on. Subsequently, I am almost never in the mood to do a 180-degree turn at a moment's notice and fall into passionate sex after being emotionally abused for a few hours. I have recently been doing work with setting and enforcing boundaries with physical, verbal, and emotional abuse and it has been very successful. I am using the Support, Empathy, Truth (SET) technique to validate (not agreeing, but validating how she feels) when possible and make her feel heard while still maintaining healthy boundaries. The techniques I have learned on here and the advice I have been given make me feel empowered and in control of my own life in a way that I have not for a very long time. However, I am completely lost when it comes to the sudden sex tests/demands and don't know how to handle them.

Does anyone have experience with this? I call it a test because it feels like an exam that I have to pass or I will be in trouble. Call it a high-pressure, high-stakes pop quiz given under incredibly bad circumstances. It is not a request, it is a demand. She will grab me moments after yelling at me and start kissing me. Not in a tender way, but in a very sexual way. She also will take things physically from 1 to 100 in five seconds flat. No foreplay, just straight in for the kill. It feels weird and wrong and icky.  

It is not necessarily that I am rejecting her, it is more that I am emotionally and physically unwilling and unable to make a sudden change like that. Call me old-fashioned, but I like to feel like I am loved, cared for, and appreciated before I feel "in the mood." Even if I try to "go with the flow" my mind and body can't do that kind of sudden shift from fight/flight to "mate." It also doesn't help that I am in my 40s and have been worn down emotionally for the past 12 years. While sudden "make-up sex" with a short-term girlfriend may have appealed to 20-something me (but even then the novelty would have worn thin quickly) it definitely does not hold any appeal for a middle-aged man and his wife of more than a decade.

It is also traumatic for me because I know that when I fail to respond like she wants me to I will be ridiculed, screamed at, accused of having an affair, of not finding her attractive anymore, etc. Even on the occasions when I have been able to roll with the sudden change and have allowed myself to be coerced into sex, it still doesn't please her. She will complain afterward that I took too long...or not long enough. I was thinking of someone else while it was happening. I wasn't good enough in some way. I didn't kiss her in the right way at exactly the right moment, etc., etc. It feels like a no-win situation.

It is only recently that I have started to realize that this is sexual abuse. When I flip gender roles it would clearly be abusive if a man expected sex on demand from a woman after verbally and emotionally abusing her, and would either coerce her into giving in or would make her pay for saying no. I am not trying to portray myself as a victim or her as a victimizer here, I am just sharing that I have only just started to realize why this feels so wrong and icky to me. More specifically, what I have come here asking for is "how do I set boundaries around this?" I want to be intimate, but on "normal" terms. I want to be able to feel cared about. I want sex to be more than just a physical act...to also be a demonstration of real affection and tenderness. This type of situation does not happen that frequently. Only every three or four months, and usually after she has been drinking, but it has made me increasingly reluctant to initiate sex with her because of the associated trauma. Any advice would be appreciated.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Jabiru]

You say you're not comfortable with it, and that's a valid response. It's good that you're listening to your emotions in the relationship and looking to take action to improve things.

You could say you need an hour to yourself to calm down, then meet back after the hour and spend some time together. That should give you time to recollect yourself and be emotionally ready. This is an example of a boundary to protect yourself.

Obeying her while you walk on eggshells is a lose-lose situation like you say. You're self sacrificing and she may not be satisfied despite you following what she said she wants. Thoughts?

[Smedley Butler]

same situation for me.  i cringe at the thought of having to have sex with my wife despite the fact that she is very fit and attractive.  i cant disassociate the awful stuff she has said to me anymore.  i used to be able to just shake it off and roll with it, but i just cant anymore.  plus i know it has nothign to do with passion or attraction to me on her part, it's all a cynical, self-serving game to make sure she can still get me to have sex with her and a selfish boost to her ego.  i avoid being awake in the same bed as her, and if i get stuck in that situation, i pretend to be asleep. 

[jaded7]

My uBPD wife has a habit of turning on a dime after, or sometimes even during, a blowout fight and demanding sex. However, I am completely lost when it comes to the sudden sex tests/demands and don't know how to handle them.

Does anyone have experience with this? I call it a test because it feels like an exam that I have to pass or I will be in trouble...No foreplay, just straight in for the kill. It feels weird and wrong and icky.  

It is not necessarily that I am rejecting her, it is more that I am emotionally and physically unwilling and unable to make a sudden change like that. Call me old-fashioned, but I like to feel like I am loved, cared for, and appreciated before I feel "in the mood."

It is also traumatic for me because I know that when I fail to respond like she wants me to I will be ridiculed, screamed at, accused of having an affair, of not finding her attractive anymore, etc. Even on the occasions when I have been able to roll with the sudden change and have allowed myself to be coerced into sex, it still doesn't please her. She will complain afterward that I took too long...or not long enough. I was thinking of someone else while it was happening. I wasn't good enough in some way. I didn't kiss her in the right way at exactly the right moment, etc., etc. It feels like a no-win situation.

It is only recently that I have started to realize that this is sexual abuse. When I flip gender roles it would clearly be abusive if a man expected sex on demand from a woman after verbally and emotionally abusing her, and would either coerce her into giving in or would make her pay for saying no.

This post resonated with and very closely mimics my experiences with my ex.

Some background, I was sexually abused as a child by a priest. It has had some profound impacts on my life, and I have suffered from horrible bouts of depression in my life and even been hospitalized once.

When I met my ex, we shared a lot about our life histories, what things made us who we are. I shared with her the sexual abuse, and the hosptilazation. I shared with her that for me sex needs to be connecting and respectful, that I see it as a way of being close to someone.

Within a very short time, our sexual relationship became very strange and concerning to me. If she wanted to intimate, she'd just say let's go to bed. No touching nor foreplay...just take off your clothes and get in bed. She said those exact words, actually. If I wasn't quick enough she'd get short and snappy saying what are you doing? Hurry Up! Get those off! Getting dressed after a shower she snapped and got angry at me, pointing at me and saying what are you doing? Don't put those on! we hadn't discussed going to bed, I didn't know.

In bed, she would get very impatient at me, snapping at me, saying things like "oh my gosh, what are you doing! (putting my hand on her leg in loving gesture, or kissing her back). We went to bed once and I moved over to put my arm around her and she was very cold, didn't turn to me.  I asked her if she just wanted to go to sleep (which is perfectly fine) and she exploded at me saying 'what do you want? if you want sex touch me in a sexy way!". Said the woman who would tell me, point at me, and say get your clothes off.

She would turn me down for sex 3-4 times in a weekend. I of course just accepted that, she has a right to say yes or no.

But if I said no- which I did precisely two times in the whole relationship- she would get very angry at me and then there would be huge 'fight'.

The last time we were together sexually she exploded again during it saying I was doing something wrong (I have no idea what I was doing wrong), left the room and came back to lecture me on a woman's sexual response. Humiliating. I'm a highly educated biologist and can draw diagrams of the male and female reproductive organs, I can draw graph of the female sexual response and label it properly. I actually taught this stuff. And, of course, she hadn't touched me in a sexy way or even turned to face me or even said good morning.

Throughout all of this, I was doing all the same things, in the same loving way, as I had at the beginning when she told me "I told my friend it's the best sex I've had in 15 years". Confusing. Hurtful.

It got to the point where I was afraid of sex with her, knowing that she would bark and snap at me, criticize me. This simply is not fun.

The worst was a time when we hadn't had sex for months (which was a first for us), and during that time I had been texting and calling her asking her to come over. She always had an excuse to not to, or would ignore the words of my message and say 'go for a walk?'. After months of this I became confused and a little hurt. So after a weekend she had committed to stay at my place, we had placed it on a calendar together, she acted like she didn't remember or know that she was supposed to be staying at my place (this, from a woman who accused me of being a child for not having a Google calendar and/or "cancelling our plans and ruining an entire summer"- I did not do any of this) and she told me she had to go home after we watched a movie.

I asked her why she was going home since we had it on the calendar that she was spending the weekend with me. She replied "I didn't see it" then when I said how could you not see it? It's on the calendar (she looks at her calendar 20 times a day) she said "I thought it was only for the day" (she hadn't come over during the day Friday or Saturday, she came over on Saturday night to watch the movie). At this point, I asked her if there was something going on with our physical relationship and she EXPLODED telling me it was my sexual abuse causing me to feel hurt and confused, which is to say it was my fault not hers.

I found out months later she had been intentionally withholding sex because "she was reevaluating the relationship since I was excited about a business partnership with a guy (who'd really well-known) she thought was gross. She didn't know him, didn't know his work, just thought a photo of him from the 1990s was gross.

So I can very much relate to your post. And I totally understand what you're saying about if a guy did these things it would be controlling, abusive, and scary.

I did meet with a sex therapist after we broke up, and she told me that yes, these behaviors are abusive, sexually abusive.

EDIT: I forgot to address the fact that at a couple of points in the relationship, where I had become extremely wary and a little afraid of her (she would regularly yell at me and put me down, call me names, ghost me, belittle me and everything about my life, work, friends, writing, etc) and so was not so open and responsive, she immediately began to use the promise of sex to get back to me. She otherwise never did that. And of course, in the context of her withholding sex for months previously, it was very deliberate.

[Turkish]

I'm sorry that you're going through this. I did also. One of the best sessions for her, she said, was the worst for me. Felt like a trained seal for an aggro trainer. She never really was into foreplay either. Strait to the act.

I did meet with a sex therapist after we broke up, and she told me that yes, these behaviors are abusive, sexually abusive.

Our first and only recycle was going to sex therapy (her idea) where she abandoned me after the second meeting because she resented being there which the other partner is not supposed to do. 3rd meeting by myself, ("where's your partner?") I got confirmation from the two female therapists similar to yours. I never went back. We soon after started being intimate again and had two kids together.

I wasn't abused as a child like you were... I'm sorry. 

[HurtAndTired]

Jabiru thank you for the advice. If this were happening during the day, I think it would work or at least be worth a try. The issue is that this behavior almost always happens at bedtime. We both work during the week, have a two-year-old, and have very little alone time during the day on the weekends. I think that perhaps the way to deal with this situation is to not get into bed with her when she is extremely dysregulated. My safety plan is to go sleep in the guest room with the door locked when I can see that she is headed in that direction. It is still a work in progress and I am sometimes caught unprepared by a sudden turn into a dysregulation/rage (especially when I am tired and have already taken my anxiety meds and laid down in our bed for the night and am half asleep). This is when I should be heading toward my safe place but have found myself to be particularly vulnerable and reluctant to get out of bed due to being groggy. I will keep your advice in mind though and see if I can't work it in if/when I am confronted by this situation when I am of more sound mind and body than at bedtime.

Smedley, I feel you when you say that you avoid being awake in the same bed with her. I feel the same way. We will typically put our son to bed around 8:30. Right afterward I take my anxiety meds (they kick in about an hour later) and we climb into bed to watch some tv for maybe an hour to unwind before one or both of us drift off. This is normally the time when we would be intimate and I am still open to it if she has been nice to me in the hours leading up to getting into bed. If she has been nasty or snippy but not fully dysregulated, intimacy is off the table for me. It's not bad enough that I feel like I need to go to my safe room, but I am on high alert and hypervigilant looking for signs that a rage might come on and sex is the last thing on my mind (I'm in survival mode). On those nights I have sometimes laid there in bed and silently prayed that she wouldn't try to start a fight with me before I can get to sleep, or she falls asleep. I have even pretended to go to sleep, but have to wait for a half hour until 9 before she will believe that I am actually sleeping. Like I said to Jabiru, it is still a work in progress.

Jaded I am so sorry to hear about all that you have been through. None of us are equipped, nor should we be, to deal with being treated like an object, but it must be especially hard for you given what you have had to overcome to be objectified all over again. It is very validating for me to hear you confirm that this is sexually abusive behavior from our SOs. I can also identify with the growing fear of a SO in a sexual context due to this type of behavior. I think that there would be something deeply wrong with us if we did not start to fear being treated this way. Thank you for sharing your story with me. I really hope that you have been able to successfully move on to a more fulfilling relationship and get the kind of care and affection that you, and all of us, deserve.

Turkish, your echoing of the same experience makes me think that this must be a very common feature of pwBPD. One that I have not come across on the boards yet, although I haven't really thought to look until lately. Thank you for also confirming that professionals told you that this is sexually abusive behavior. It is very validating to hear this from multiple people. You say that you went on to have 2 children with your SO, so I am assuming that you found a way to work past this issue. I would be very interested in hearing more about that.

After hearing your stories and advice, and a lot of careful consideration, I think that the best way to deal with this type of situation...at least for now, is to try to prevent things from going in that direction in the first place. For me the demands for sex usually do not come in isolation, they come directly after or during conflict. Part of setting and enforcing my boundaries is all about avoiding that type of knock-down, drawn-out, bitter conflict in the first place. I have been making good progress with not letting her bait me into arguments and walking away when she becomes dysregulated (safety plan). The one part that I need to continue to work on is what to do when I can see the dysregulation bubbling beneath the surface but it has not yet erupted. I want to not reward dysregulated behavior and therefore reinforce the behavior, but I also do not want to be too quick to pull the trigger on walking away or locking myself away in the safe room. It is a delicate balance that I am still working on. As I said before, she tends to tilt from passive-aggressive/snarky into full-on dysregulation right at bedtime when I am my most vulnerable. I think I just need to bite the bullet and tell her that while I would be happy to talk about (fill in the blank) tomorrow, it is bedtime and I am going to go to sleep. I will then turn over and ignore her. If she escalates and/or persists in trying to egg me into an argument I will simply get up and walk down the hall to the guest room and lock the door, no matter how groggy I am and how much I just want to stay in bed and be left alone.

I also think that I need to be more regular with initiating intimacy myself and doing so in a way that I want her to reciprocate (e.g. hugging, kissing, being tender, saying nice things, etc.). As I have read on here many times, someone has to be the leader in a relationship, and since the pwBPD is incapable of doing so, the "non" partner has an obligation to do so. Although she has hurt me deeply by the way she has treated me in regards to sex, I have to remember that she is mentally ill, and a survivor of sexual abuse herself. This does not relieve her of responsibility for her behavior, but it does explain why she is so often dysfunctional when it comes to sex (and really all other aspects of intimacy). It does me no good to hold onto a grudge or be ruled by fear if I want to save this marriage, which I do. As much as I dread these negative sexual behaviors, I need to develop a thicker skin and try to treat them the way that I would any of her other dysfunctional and unpleasant behaviors. Namely to remember to love her, model and reinforce positive behavior, and remove myself from the situation when negative behaviors become unacceptable and therefore no longer reinforce those behaviors. I know it is a lot easier to say than to do, but I will continue to try and would like to know what you all think about my action plan.

[jaded7]

Jabiru thank you for the advice. If this were happening during the day, I think it would work or at least be worth a try. The issue is that this behavior almost always happens at bedtime. We both work during the week, have a two-year-old, and have very little alone time during the day on the weekends. I think that perhaps the way to deal with this situation is to not get into bed with her when she is extremely dysregulated. My safety plan is to go sleep in the guest room with the door locked when I can see that she is headed in that direction. It is still a work in progress and I am sometimes caught unprepared by a sudden turn into a dysregulation/rage (especially when I am tired and have already taken my anxiety meds and laid down in our bed for the night and am half asleep). This is when I should be heading toward my safe place but have found myself to be particularly vulnerable and reluctant to get out of bed due to being groggy. I will keep your advice in mind though and see if I can't work it in if/when I am confronted by this situation when I am of more sound mind and body than at bedtime.

Smedley, I feel you when you say that you avoid being awake in the same bed with her. I feel the same way. We will typically put our son to bed around 8:30. Right afterward I take my anxiety meds (they kick in about an hour later) and we climb into bed to watch some tv for maybe an hour to unwind before one or both of us drift off. This is normally the time when we would be intimate and I am still open to it if she has been nice to me in the hours leading up to getting into bed. If she has been nasty or snippy but not fully dysregulated, intimacy is off the table for me. It's not bad enough that I feel like I need to go to my safe room, but I am on high alert and hypervigilant looking for signs that a rage might come on and sex is the last thing on my mind (I'm in survival mode). On those nights I have sometimes laid there in bed and silently prayed that she wouldn't try to start a fight with me before I can get to sleep, or she falls asleep. I have even pretended to go to sleep, but have to wait for a half hour until 9 before she will believe that I am actually sleeping. Like I said to Jabiru, it is still a work in progress.

Jaded I am so sorry to hear about all that you have been through. None of us are equipped, nor should we be, to deal with being treated like an object, but it must be especially hard for you given what you have had to overcome to be objectified all over again. It is very validating for me to hear you confirm that this is sexually abusive behavior from our SOs. I can also identify with the growing fear of a SO in a sexual context due to this type of behavior. I think that there would be something deeply wrong with us if we did not start to fear being treated this way. Thank you for sharing your story with me. I really hope that you have been able to successfully move on to a more fulfilling relationship and get the kind of care and affection that you, and all of us, deserve.

Turkish, your echoing of the same experience makes me think that this must be a very common feature of pwBPD. One that I have not come across on the boards yet, although I haven't really thought to look until lately. Thank you for also confirming that professionals told you that this is sexually abusive behavior. It is very validating to hear this from multiple people. You say that you went on to have 2 children with your SO, so I am assuming that you found a way to work past this issue. I would be very interested in hearing more about that.

After hearing your stories and advice, and a lot of careful consideration, I think that the best way to deal with this type of situation...at least for now, is to try to prevent things from going in that direction in the first place. For me the demands for sex usually do not come in isolation, they come directly after or during conflict. Part of setting and enforcing my boundaries is all about avoiding that type of knock-down, drawn-out, bitter conflict in the first place. I have been making good progress with not letting her bait me into arguments and walking away when she becomes dysregulated (safety plan). The one part that I need to continue to work on is what to do when I can see the dysregulation bubbling beneath the surface but it has not yet erupted. I want to not reward dysregulated behavior and therefore reinforce the behavior, but I also do not want to be too quick to pull the trigger on walking away or locking myself away in the safe room. It is a delicate balance that I am still working on. As I said before, she tends to tilt from passive-aggressive/snarky into full-on dysregulation right at bedtime when I am my most vulnerable. I think I just need to bite the bullet and tell her that while I would be happy to talk about (fill in the blank) tomorrow, it is bedtime and I am going to go to sleep. I will then turn over and ignore her. If she escalates and/or persists in trying to egg me into an argument I will simply get up and walk down the hall to the guest room and lock the door, no matter how groggy I am and how much I just want to stay in bed and be left alone.

I also think that I need to be more regular with initiating intimacy myself and doing so in a way that I want her to reciprocate (e.g. hugging, kissing, being tender, saying nice things, etc.). As I have read on here many times, someone has to be the leader in a relationship, and since the pwBPD is incapable of doing so, the "non" partner has an obligation to do so. Although she has hurt me deeply by the way she has treated me in regards to sex, I have to remember that she is mentally ill, and a survivor of sexual abuse herself. This does not relieve her of responsibility for her behavior, but it does explain why she is so often dysfunctional when it comes to sex (and really all other aspects of intimacy). It does me no good to hold onto a grudge or be ruled by fear if I want to save this marriage, which I do. As much as I dread these negative sexual behaviors, I need to develop a thicker skin and try to treat them the way that I would any of her other dysfunctional and unpleasant behaviors. Namely to remember to love her, model and reinforce positive behavior, and remove myself from the situation when negative behaviors become unacceptable and therefore no longer reinforce those behaviors. I know it is a lot easier to say than to do, but I will continue to try and would like to know what you all think about my action plan.

HurtandTired. I have a meeting in a little bit, so I'll write more later. But thank you for this, it actually brought tears to my eyes. Someone who's understanding and kind and thoughtful, imagine that. You exhibited more empathy and understanding here than she did in over 2 years.

[jaded7]

I'm sorry that you're going through this. I did also. One of the best sessions for her, she said, was the worst for me. Felt like a trained seal for an aggro trainer. She never really was into foreplay either. Strait to the act.

Our first and only recycle was going to sex therapy (her idea) where she abandoned me after the second meeting because she resented being there which the other partner is not supposed to do. 3rd meeting by myself, ("where's your partner?") I got confirmation from the two female therapists similar to yours. I never went back. We soon after started being intimate again and had two kids together.

I wasn't abused as a child like you were... I'm sorry. 

Thank you so much Turkish. And yes, not much foreplay, or none at at all. Straight to the act. It felt so weird to me. I remember telling a friend in the early days of our relationship that she made me feel like a sex object. Not in a good way.

I know this thread isn't about me, but hopefully this will help HurtandTired and others...that's the beauty of these boards.

[jaded7]

I also think that I need to be more regular with initiating intimacy myself and doing so in a way that I want her to reciprocate (e.g. hugging, kissing, being tender, saying nice things, etc.). As I have read on here many times, someone has to be the leader in a relationship, and since the pwBPD is incapable of doing so, the "non" partner has an obligation to do so. Although she has hurt me deeply by the way she has treated me in regards to sex... It does me no good to hold onto a grudge or be ruled by fear if I want to save this marriage, which I do. As much as I dread these negative sexual behaviors, I need to develop a thicker skin and try to treat them the way that I would any of her other dysfunctional and unpleasant behaviors. Namely to remember to love her, model and reinforce positive behavior, and remove myself from the situation when negative behaviors become unacceptable and therefore no longer reinforce those behaviors.

Just wondering if you have put this approach into action? It's very similar to a model I tried with my relationship. I thought I needed to model healthy initiation of intimacy, I thought I had to develop a thicker skin, I thought that since I loved her I would put up with these behaviors.

[uncleflo]

same situation for me.  i cringe at the thought of having to have sex with my wife despite the fact that she is very fit and attractive.  i cant disassociate the awful stuff she has said to me anymore.  i used to be able to just shake it off and roll with it, but i just cant anymore.  plus i know it has nothign to do with passion or attraction to me on her part, it's all a cynical, self-serving game to make sure she can still get me to have sex with her and a selfish boost to her ego.  i avoid being awake in the same bed as her, and if i get stuck in that situation, i pretend to be asleep. 

I could have written this myself, Smedley, word for word. How does one perform well when they've been treated so poorly? How does one tap into that passion when there is no real accountability possible from their partner? How can you be vulnerable when the moment might be weaponized down the road? The last time we were intimate, I remember thinking, "I wonder if this will be used against me if I don't satisfy her the way she wants to be satisfied,"… and then I fumbled the ball because I was thinking… and then it was used against me!

[jaded7]

I could have written this myself, Smedley, word for word. How does one perform well when they've been treated so poorly? How does one tap into that passion when there is no real accountability possible from their partner? How can you be vulnerable when the moment might be weaponized down the road? The last time we were intimate, I remember thinking, "I wonder if this will be used against me if I don't satisfy her the way she wants to be satisfied,"… and then I fumbled the ball because I was thinking… and then it was used against me!

Me too. As others have mentioned, I became afraid of being intimate with her because she would regularly get angry and snap at me during intimacy. And I had no idea why. NONE. I was doing the very same things I had done earlier in the relationship that she told a friend was the "best sex she's had in 15 years". The exact same.

Trying to approach intimacy with tenderness and love, connection. Not understanding how someone could get angry, during sex. Like...what the?

I'm coming to believe it was the fear of vulnerability on her part. Fear of just being present in intimacy. And it came out as stress and anger.

[HurtAndTired]

Thank you for the additional responses.

Jaded I have not put these into practice yet much. I have been trying to be more physically affectionate, but not to model how I expect her to treat me. I misspoke when I when I said that.

I have recently been reading the book "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get on With Life" by Margalis Fjelstad. In the book, the author promotes ending the "dance of intimate hostility" in which we "nons" engage with our pwBPD SOs as dysfunctional dance partners. They cannot and will not stop the dysfunctional dance of the Karpman drama triangle (only three parts to play: rescuer, victim, or persecutor and all of them are dysfunctional ), so the "non" has to stop playing the game to end it. I am being more affectionate (holding hands, hugging, etc.) because I am naturally a physically affectionate person who comes from a physically affectionate family. Over the past 12 years, I have let my uBPD wife shape me into someone who I am not and I am taking back the person who I was before I took the role of her caretaker.

I am growing a thicker skin in general, but that is because I have had to come to the sad realization that I am married to a person with a serious mental illness. I cannot change that or change her and I am done trying because it is a waste of time for both of us. The only thing I can change is myself and how I allow myself to be treated. I know that her distorted thinking and insults are a result of that illness and I will not take it personally anymore. That's not to say that I will stand there and just take emotional abuse because I will get up and walk away from it, but that I will no longer let it hurt me.

Instead, I am going to start being myself around her, and to hell with the consequences. I am no longer afraid of her anger. I was very much my true self when we first got together (which she seemed to love at the time) and I have let go of that bit by bit over the years as she has bullied me into compliance and I have let her because I was afraid of her raging. No fear of her raging + no longer being able to deny being my true self + setting and enforcing boundaries = me being responsible for my own happiness and no longer trying to be responsible for hers.

I don't yet know how this journey will end as I have just embarked on it, but I do know that it has made me feel more empowered than I have in years. It has not been easy so far. A pwBPD gets really upset when the behaviors that they have successfully controlled you with for years no longer work and they will try anything to get you back in line. This is where enforcing boundaries and having a safety plan comes into play. A "non" can never be the perfect person that a pwBPD expects us to be in the idealization phase. Instead, we need to go back to caring about the pwBPD and not caring for the pwBPD. Small children need caretakers, while adults should care about others but only care for themselves.

My hope is that as I re-engage socially with friends and go back to being the well-rounded, confident, and self-respecting person who she fell in love with, she will learn to self-soothe the way she did before we got together. I know that it will not be easy for her or me and that we will have many ups and downs as we each work toward self-realization, but I know that it is necessary as I cannot go on much longer the way things have been. There is a risk that she will get so upset that she permanently splits on me, but that is always a risk with a pwBPD. Being afraid of it only lets them control you and does not give you any control over whether they leave or not.

Uncleflo I can totally identify with your experience. I have a problem with my pituitary gland which has all of my hormones completely out of whack. I am finally with a good endocrinologist who has gotten me all straightened out and I am feeling and looking better than I have since I was in my 20s. Getting my testosterone and estradiol back in balance and at their normal (and even optimal) levels has really helped with this. Add to this the fact that I am finally back in pretty good shape physically and my prescription for tadalafil and I should and could be ready to romp like I was back in my fraternity days. However, as I have gotten older and this relationship is much more serious than those in my 20s, I have found that I still have to have the right mindset or things won't "work as advertised." I guess it is true that the mind is the most important sexual organ in the body. One more reason that I have decided to disengage and walk away the second things start getting weird/uncomfortable/abusive due to what she is saying...even if that means I have to end things in the middle. If I do that and she tries to use that against me going forward, I am just not going to let it have any effect on me. No longer being afraid of her insults and rage is like a superpower I just discovered but that I have had all along!

[Collaguazo]

I had a similar experience. In general, physically the sex was great but it lacked emotional intimacy. No foreplay, just get undressed and start right away.

Then most of the time, she wanted it to be over quickly and after we were done she got dressed right away and left the bedroom. It was only a handful of times that we stayed cuddling in bed.

She would also use sex to either “reward” me or “punish” me to get what she wanted. And trying to make plans to have sex (you know, flirt and tease each other during the day looking forward to being together at night) was a sure way to get rejected.

She never complained during sex, but out of the blue she would say things like “uggh we have zero sex chemistry” or “you wearing that shirt? It’s a total turn off” or “don’t even think about having sex today, I don’t want to be touched by anybody”

But then again, she would also stop by my house on her way home, use me as her sexual toy “omg that was the best sex ever” and leave.

[Remotefile]

At first, my ex was attentive and caring. I remember the first time we made out he was actually trembling when he reached out to touch me.
 When I think back on it now, it seems almost robotic and flooded a fairly strict/regular pattern. Very vanilla.  Then as we got closer, he began to have trouble with ED. Rarely climaxed and yeah, never much foreplay. Any cuddling after stopped even though I specifically asked for it. He was up and dressed again in a flash. In fact, I addressed it in a 'letter' I sent him post split-told him I felt like an object and that he just wanted me to lay there and take it. It was...unlike any other man I've been with.
I asked for what I liked-I too need and want some tenderness and connection in this area. Not every time, but frequently. Sometimes right for the kill is cool-but I'm not 25 anymore, ha. Asked him what he was into. I was ignored in my requests and he never addressed my questions. Yet told me how hot he thought I was?
I've been working under the impression that his meds caused the ED and the other behaviors were shame/embarrassment, but maybe not. Once he asked me if I wanted him to get viagra after a 'failed' attempt.

Y'know-you read so many posts on other platforms about how insane the sex is w pwBPD. I wasn't particularly impressed. I thought it was 'porn' style and devoid of emotion after the honeymoon phases.

[Outdorenthusiast]

Hurtandtired - Oh man did this resonate.  I am so sorry you have had to experience this and what you feel is natural and normal.  I have been there too.

To validate your feelings, yes - it is emotional abuse, and sexual abuse you are feeling.  It is icky, and wrong, and you dont have to take it.  You can change the dynamic - but it will have to come from you.  She won’t change.

To directly answer your questions - it can stop, but you have to strengthen your personal boundaries. 
1) Stop the emotional abuse by protecting yourself with tools from here.  SET method, Gray Rock method, and avoiding JADE.  Recognize where you need a timeout boundary and are beginning to get emotionally flooded.   Mine is about 15 min of ranting and then I politely say I need a break and we can talk more later.  Usually that is enough to take the steam out.
2) Allow yourself to have a physical boundary and it is ok to say no to sex.  Women say no all the time and they don’t get grief, you can too - no explanation needed.  If you want to give an explanation - you can tell her that the fight wore you out.  She will eventually get the hint.

Understand the BPD condition and how sex is being used by her.  Sex is the bandaid to repair what she has done, she is ashamed, and she needs validation you still love her and won’t leave her.  However she is emotionally like a child who has thrown a tantrum and doesn’t realize the damage done to you.  They get amnesia and pretend like nothing happened.  Sex is soothing and comforting tool for them when their emotions are raw.

For my W, I tell her no and ignore the pouting and manipulation after.  After things have cooled off, I have gotten to a point where I can later (next day) tell her why if I want to, and what can be done to fix it.  Or, I approach her for sex on my own terms because I have gotten over it.   However YMMV with your W.  Mine has been in a lot of therapy.

When you start to enforce your boundaries of what you will accept is right and wrong for your values (I don’t deserve to be yelled at, I am not obligated to have sex with someone who is abusive etc.) she will negatively react - even explode.  This is normal.  However with consistency of your boundary, she will begin to respect your boundary and it won’t be an explosion anymore.  Your boundary will become expected.  Remember - you are the only one who can set and enforce your own boundaries.  The icky feeling is your body telling you a personal boundary is being crossed.  Listen to it and enforce your boundary so it isn’t crossed. 

I guess my advice is that boundaries are your friend and NO is a complete sentence where sex is concerned.  No explanation is required.

Good luck and there are lots of other members here that can likely also chime in with advice.