Wife threatening to abort baby or disallow me from birth

[Jimothy]

I've been in a 7 year long relationship, married for 4 years. I've noticed warning signs in the past, but things have really come to a head during late pregnancy for our first child. After some therapy of my own and internet browsing, I discovered this forum. It was surreal to read about experiences people were having that almost directly mirrored my own.

I'm really struggling right now with my wife's behavior. Which takes on these forms:

1. Refusing accountability for anything: During our entire relationship, she has been moving through a series of people who are at fault for all of the negativity in her life, particularly when she is faced with a stressful situation. She doesn't recognize a pattern and is willing to burn down friendships, mentorships, employment opportunities etc. after the first hint of criticism towards her. Now I am the only person left to blame. If I say that I don't feel that issues in our relationship are 100% my fault, she goes into a state of rage. She throws things, destroys things, dissociates to the point she doesn't remember destroying things five minutes earlier, screams, tells me how cruel I am for "gaslighting" her.

It's particularly bad during the pregnancy. I'm the only income provider for us and just started my own business. As a background, we both had stressful professional jobs. She wanted to move back to her home town, so I quit my job to facilitate the move and she kept working remotely. That job caused her great stress and when we arrived in her hometown I started my own business. She was then able to quit her job and has spent the last year plus working with animals, first as a volunteer and second establishing a set up at home, until she could no longer do the physical demands due to pregnancy.

I routinely wake up at 5:45 a.m. deal with all of the animals, work a full day, get home around 5:30 or 6:00. Then I take care of all of the animals again, in addition to doing other work around the house that she has requested. It's about 8:00 p.m. before I finish all of that. During this time, she has been working roughly 2 four-hour days per week at my business, where she can come and go as she pleases.

Despite all of this, she tells me every day that I have abandoned her and that I obviously don't care about her.

2. Demanding apologies and "recognition." : She tells me that everything would be better if I just apologized or showed her that I understand what she has gone through. This results in a game of three card monte where if I apologize, it's "not earnest, or she wants recognition, not an apology." If I try to recognize what she's gone through by listing it out, "she just wants an apology, not a laundry list of things that have happened." If I try to focus on what I can do to support and help her now, "we can't move forward until I apologize and recognize." If I try to apologize and recognize at the same time, "everything is still happening as we speak and focusing on the past won't fix it."

The only common denominator is that whatever I say, she remains angry and it is my fault. I've become more and more hesitant to even have these conversations because they almost always trigger an angry and sometimes destructive reaction.

3. Hypochondria: Even before pregnancy she always had something physically wrong with her. I've done dozens of hours of internet research, organized trips to multiple specialists, driven hours to take her to a new doctor because she didn't like the previous ones. When she is really in the thick of one of these phases, she will spend literal hours per day running her hands over the body part she believes is suffering, or staring in the mirror at something that is "wrong" with her face or appearance, or contorting herself into crazy positions to "get a better look at something" then complaining how much the contortions hurt her.

Each one of these maladies have resulted in a doctor saying either "there is nothing diagnosable here" or "this is so mild it should be the least of your worries." This always upsets her, and usually results in her screaming at me for "obviously not caring about her health" because I'm not doing things like keeping a daily symptom journal or asking her about her symptoms every single day.

The above doesn't represent everything, and I'm sorry for the lengthy post. It feels great just to talk about this to someone who isn't my therapist (even if I'm just speaking into the void). Things have been really really difficult lately. She has threatened multiple times to abort the baby and has recently told me that I'm not allowed at the birth. Any advice or support would be much appreciated. Thanks

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Pook075]

She tells me that everything would be better if I just apologized or showed her that I understand what she has gone through. This results in a game of three card monte where if I apologize, it's "not earnest, or she wants recognition, not an apology." If I try to recognize what she's gone through by listing it out, "she just wants an apology, not a laundry list of things that have happened." If I try to focus on what I can do to support and help her now, "we can't move forward until I apologize and recognize." If I try to apologize and recognize at the same time, "everything is still happening as we speak and focusing on the past won't fix it."

Hello and welcome to the forums.  I'm so sorry you're going through this and unfortunately, your experiences are very common in the world of BPD.  Hopefully we can help you sharpen your communication a little to avoid the worst of her escalations.  Please take a look at the toolbars along the top of the page at ways to disarm those situations.

The part I quoted above- I know that so well.  I can remember countless times my wife was raging and told me to get out, only to physically attack me when I tried to walk away.  When I asked what she wanted me to do, she'd say "listen to me!!"  It's like there was a disconnect between her words and what was actually going on inside her mind.

But I also wonder, have you asked her what she's gone through?  The main thing she's looking for is to be heard and respected, which is hard to do in those situations.  It's often helpful to move the conversation past the he said/she said stuff and really get to the root of the matter.

[Rev]

Hey Jimothy,

And welcome to the family here at BPD. 

I'm going to draft in behind Pook here and let you respond before I weigh in. 

Thanks for reaching out.

Hang it there.  You've come to a neat place.

Rev

[Jimothy]

Hello and welcome to the forums.  I'm so sorry you're going through this and unfortunately, your experiences are very common in the world of BPD.  Hopefully we can help you sharpen your communication a little to avoid the worst of her escalations.  Please take a look at the toolbars along the top of the page at ways to disarm those situations.

The part I quoted above- I know that so well.  I can remember countless times my wife was raging and told me to get out, only to physically attack me when I tried to walk away.  When I asked what she wanted me to do, she'd say "listen to me!!"  It's like there was a disconnect between her words and what was actually going on inside her mind.

But I also wonder, have you asked her what she's gone through?  The main thing she's looking for is to be heard and respected, which is hard to do in those situations.  It's often helpful to move the conversation past the he said/she said stuff and really get to the root of the matter.

Thank you for the welcome! I've been reading the forums for a few weeks and just finally getting around to posting. I have really focused on trying to communicate with the sympathy --> empathy --> truth model. It worked to a limited extent in that it did not provoke as violent of reactions as the he-said/she-said, which I had learned the hard way was not a productive way of handling these conversations.

I have asked her what she's gone through. Unfortunately, that usually leads to either "I've told you a million times" or "if you don't know then you obviously don't care about me." I'm sometimes able to get her to mention things by approaching the subject more obliquely. When I then incorporate that into one of the "blame" conversations, it typically upsets her because I'm just repeating what she has said in her mind.

I really struggle to square the circle when she says things like "I've been begging you for months and months to have a conversation about

• ," but she's never even actually raised the subject. Conversations go like this:

Her: "I have issue

• ",

Me: "What do you think or how do you feel about issue

• ?"

Her: "Obviously you don't care about it or me because I had to bring it up. You've totally abandoned me, and I'm all alone in the world. You are so cruel."

So I'll attempt to bring it up spontaneously a different time. She'll tell me it's not a good time to talk about it or that she can't trust I have any interest in the subject because she was the first to mention it previously or that I'm only bringing it up to get something.

My frustration lies in that I can never get her to communicate to any degree about her actual feelings or possible solutions for her problems. It seems that the only pattern she can follow now is: 1) she gets upset or stressed about something, then 2) it immediately pivots to blaming me for 100% of the problem, without ever engaging in an actual conversation about the issue; 3) the "blow-up stage" where she revises the course of events to say that she has been begging for long periods of time, where she throws things and gets physically violent, and where she no longer lets me even have more than a word or two in a conversation; 4) she gets self-loathing and talks about how she hates how much she hurts me.

I just want to help her, but I'm stuck in the starting blocks. She's obviously in agony and I take an emotional beating every time we go through this unproductive process.

[Rev]

My frustration lies in that I can never get her to communicate to any degree about her actual feelings or possible solutions for her problems. It seems that the only pattern she can follow now is: 1) she gets upset or stressed about something, then 2) it immediately pivots to blaming me for 100% of the problem, without ever engaging in an actual conversation about the issue; 3) the "blow-up stage" where she revises the course of events to say that she has been begging for long periods of time, where she throws things and gets physically violent, and where she no longer lets me even have more than a word or two in a conversation; 4) she gets self-loathing and talks about how she hates how much she hurts me.

This is typical. What do you know about how BPD works in a person? 

This is not a test. I just want to gauge where to start and how much to say.

[Pook075]

I have asked her what she's gone through. Unfortunately, that usually leads to either "I've told you a million times" or "if you don't know then you obviously don't care about me." I'm sometimes able to get her to mention things by approaching the subject more obliquely. When I then incorporate that into one of the "blame" conversations, it typically upsets her because I'm just repeating what she has said in her mind.

Here's the thing, BPD relationships just aren't a fair fight.  When she's unstable, you don't get to have "blame conversations".  That's like pouring gasoline onto a fire and always a bad idea. 

Think about it this way.  You and I go hiking in a rural area.  I take a bad step and fall hard.  I have a gash on my face, I can't move my right shoulder, and I tell you there's screaming pain in my ankle.  What do you do? What you don't do (unless you're a doctor) is try to diagnose my exact conditions and perform advanced medical care in the middle of nowhere.  You simply help the best you can, or you leave to get help, to get us out of that situation.

BPD is a lot like that, you're never going to be qualified to fully diagnose what's going on.  But that doesn't mean you can't provide love and support to de-escalate things right now, while waiting for a better time to get to the bottom of things.  Make sense?  Those deeper conversations about what's really going on can only happen when she's stable and feeling secure.

Please answer Rev's question when you can, since that will give us a little more to go by for specific advice.  I'm sure others will chime in soon as well.

[Jimothy]

My frustration lies in that I can never get her to communicate to any degree about her actual feelings or possible solutions for her problems. It seems that the only pattern she can follow now is: 1) she gets upset or stressed about something, then 2) it immediately pivots to blaming me for 100% of the problem, without ever engaging in an actual conversation about the issue; 3) the "blow-up stage" where she revises the course of events to say that she has been begging for long periods of time, where she throws things and gets physically violent, and where she no longer lets me even have more than a word or two in a conversation; 4) she gets self-loathing and talks about how she hates how much she hurts me.

This is typical. What do you know about how BPD works in a person? 

This is not a test. I just want to gauge where to start and how much to say.

Not a ton, but trying to learn more every day. I've looked at the DSM definition as well as generic definitions from websites like Healthline and Mayo Clinic, which are fairly vague. I stumbled across this forum in a google search for how to deal with a spouse who never accepts your apology and demands ill-defined things like demonstrations of understanding. I started browsing threads and recognized people describing behavior that was all too familiar to me.

I found "Quit Walking on Eggshells" through this site, and I'm about halfway through it. I found some other places online that seemed less focused on support and more focused just on complaining/demonizing their loved one with BPD. So a big part of what led me to actually post here was to see what resources people in this community used to educate themselves and gain practical tools for dealing with people suffering from BPD.

I hope that answers your question in a useful way.

[Rev]

Not a ton, but trying to learn more every day. I've looked at the DSM definition as well as generic definitions from websites like Healthline and Mayo Clinic, which are fairly vague. I stumbled across this forum in a google search for how to deal with a spouse who never accepts your apology and demands ill-defined things like demonstrations of understanding. I started browsing threads and recognized people describing behavior that was all too familiar to me.

I found "Quit Walking on Eggshells" through this site, and I'm about halfway through it. I found some other places online that seemed less focused on support and more focused just on complaining/demonizing their loved one with BPD. So a big part of what led me to actually post here was to see what resources people in this community used to educate themselves and gain practical tools for dealing with people suffering from BPD.

I hope that answers your question in a useful way.

Excellent - Stop Walking on Eggshells is a great place to start. It is however somewhat dated. So then moving forward from that book, there are a multitude of theories.

Essentially, I would ask that you build two things into your mindset moving forward.

1) BPD is a condition that by and large doesn't improve. Like being a diabetic, for example, it is an emotional condition that needs to be managed.

2) There is little to be gained in trying to track behavioral patterns from an emotional point of view. The strategy for you will need to become understanding what to do based on the situation, regardless of "how much you love her" - if that makes sense?  People with BPD live in a world that I call feelings based facts. In other words, how they are feeling in the moment becomes translated into interpreting the "truth" of what is happening with little possibility of seeing things differently. In other words - if my partner with BPD was feeling particularly shameful on a given day, then every last thing was an attack. Like even if I did something nice for her, that could get twisted into I was doing this to shame her by showing her what a great guy I was. She needed to confirm her shame at any cost.   

I'm going to invite you to ask your pointed questions about why what you see in your wife may be happening - like why does she seem great one minute, and not great the next?

Those of us who have experience can offer you some perspectives of what may be happening in the mind of a person at that point. From there, you can decide what to do in the moment that makes sense for you. If you are going to find fulfillment in this relationship, it would be a good idea to start building a series of standard strategies to respond to the repeating dynamics of your day to day interactions.

What do you think?

Rev

[jaded7]

I have asked her what she's gone through. Unfortunately, that usually leads to either "I've told you a million times" or "if you don't know then you obviously don't care about me." I'm sometimes able to get her to mention things by approaching the subject more obliquely. When I then incorporate that into one of the "blame" conversations, it typically upsets her because I'm just repeating what she has said in her mind.

I really struggle to square the circle when she says things like "I've been begging you for months and months to have a conversation about

• ," but she's never even actually raised the subject. Conversations go like this:

Her: "I have issue

• ",

Me: "What do you think or how do you feel about issue

• ?"

Her: "Obviously you don't care about it or me because I had to bring it up. You've totally abandoned me, and I'm all alone in the world. You are so cruel."

So I'll attempt to bring it up spontaneously a different time. She'll tell me it's not a good time to talk about it or that she can't trust I have any interest in the subject because she was the first to mention it previously or that I'm only bringing it up to get something.


I just want to help her, but I'm stuck in the starting blocks. She's obviously in agony and I take an emotional beating every time we go through this unproductive process.

Welcome to the forum. Read, read, read. There are lots of very knowledgeable people here.

Interacting with someone wBPD is CONFUSING. So confusing. We've all experienced it, and it can drive you crazy. You love this person, you want to be there for her....and yet it seems everything you do is wrong somehow.

The above points really resonate with me, and I'm sure many here as well. A few things jump out to me: mind reading expectations, she's expecting you to know what she wants/needs without explicitly telling you. Then getting upset with you for not addressing these things. When you do address them then your'e not being sincere or 'listening' when she brought them up 'earlier', which she didn't do. Or if she did you tried to address them but she got mad and told you you're 'cruel' or 'you picked a bad time to bring this up'.


It's a no win situation. But in my case, I never wanted to win anything! I just wanted her to feel heard and seen, and I wanted to feel heard and seen.

[jaded7]

I will add to my above post since I can't seem to 'modify' my post:

telling you what you're thinking when you do try to ask her about these things is the other kind of mind reading, where she knows your motivations and intentions, and tells you what they are, and they are bad (you just want to get something).

As I said above, these things are really really confusing.

I think there are many here who will help you figure this out.

[Rev]

I wrote - I'm going to invite you to ask your pointed questions about why what you see in your wife may be happening - like why does she seem great one minute, and not great the next?

It occurs to me that maybe you've already asked them in the first post?

Not wanting to make you repeat yourself. I have mild form of dyslexia, so shorter sentences work better for me to read - or maybe repeat them below and point me (us) where to start.

Thanks - and sorry if I'm being a bit confusing.

Rev

[Jimothy]

I wrote - I'm going to invite you to ask your pointed questions about why what you see in your wife may be happening - like why does she seem great one minute, and not great the next?

It occurs to me that maybe you've already asked them in the first post?

Not wanting to make you repeat yourself. I have mild form of dyslexia, so shorter sentences work better for me to read - or maybe repeat them below and point me (us) where to start.

Thanks - and sorry if I'm being a bit confusing.

Rev

No problem at all, I'm happy to more specifically ask the questions. I really appreciate you being willing to answer them. This isn't an exhaustive list. It represents some of the more frustrating issues for me.

1. Why did it take so long for me to become the person at the center of her anger?

Before the last 18 months or so, I would see her idolize then dispose of people. I would see her act unreasonably angry towards people over slight provocations. I would see her get frustrated with people out in the world who didn't see everything as black and white as she did.

During and after these incidents, I was the one she came to for support. I was always able to calm her down and make her feel centered. Now she lashes out at me for everything. We've been more socially isolated since moving back to her hometown, which is somewhat ironic. Is it just because I'm the most conveniently located person to lash out at.

2. How does the BPD interact with hypochondria?

This is one of her worst triggering mechanisms. She will just come up with a diagnosis out of the blue and be concerned that it is life threatening. For instance, she was worried that her ab muscles had torn apart because she was "way way bigger than she should be" at that point in the pregnancy. Luckily, we had a doctor's appointment 2 days later. I told her that it was a justifiable thing to be worried about and that she should take it easy with her core muscles until the appointment. At the appointment, she measured at the low end of the desired range. This didn't change her opinion at all regarding her ab muscles. After the appointment, I told her I thought that was good news. This upset her badly.

She also has had issues with body image. I know that women today are subjected to all kinds of horrific standards with regards to weight etc. However, she would routinely say how fat she is, how her boobs made her look like a cow, how she is just gross. She's an objectively beautiful and rail thin woman. She will make comments about her weight around other women who sometimes appear to be offended because it comes across like my wife is fishing for a compliment.

3. How do I deal with her changing the narrative about our life?

It's so frustrating to have her say things like, "you've never once even attempted to apologize!" When I can literally point to letters I written as apology attempts, text messages, conversations on specific days in specific contexts. She just makes up whatever factual basis is necessary to get to the conclusion of "everything is Jimothy's fault."

She took a mental turn for the worse about two months ago, but now it is "I've been begging and crying for months." I show her pictures of happy things we were doing so recently and remind her of the good times. All that does is lead to accusations of "fighting or trying gaslight her."

I'm worried she's telling other people that I'm being neglectful or even abusive of her. I've noticed the midwives at the clinic treating me different (I've never missed a single appointment, come with a full list of questions every time, have read multiple books about pregnancy and being a supportive birth partner because I've been so affected by my wife's accusations of not caring about her before the pregnancy). I've always had a great relationship with her family, to the point that I enlisted them when she was struggling with mental health previously. Now, I often don't get returned text messages or get terse answers. My in-laws are amazing and I'm worried she's poisoned the well with them.

That is a lot, so I'll leave it there for now. Thanks again to everyone! Just these couple posts have been so cathartic and the replies have been really sympathetic and informative.

[Rev]

This is super.

Give me a day and I'll get back to you.


Rev

[thankful person]

Hi Jimothy and welcome. You’ve come to an amazing community of people who have really helped me.

I’m in a lesbian marriage with 3 small children, but apart from that I related to everything you said. My wife even has a dog boarding business and where she is the meet and greet and get the money person, I am actually the dog carer. I get up early to look after them and then get our kids up and ready and then I’m desperately trying to get her up to take over so I’m not late for work. It’s all about the control with her. And then she gets to say that all I care about is work and I haven’t even asked how she is.

I’ve learnt so much on here and also not sure if anyone recommended the book, “Stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist”. It is incredible and I’ve learnt lots of new skills but I’m still struggling, sometimes more and sometimes less. Validating and not JADEing (justify, argue, defend or explain) have been very useful and I also attempt SET sometimes with varying results.

I expect you’ve read that borderline means on the borderline between milder mental conditions like depression and anxiety and more severe psychotic illnesses like schizophrenia. I think it’s an important distinction to understand. My wife is delusional. She goes through phases of presenting as more sane. But when she sees me through those black coloured glasses then everything I do or say is wrong. She has no happy memories of our past. She can’t see that I’m trying and makes accusations of me making no effort. She doesn’t feel wanted, desired, loved or supported and it’s my failing as she believes it’s my responsibility and I also get the line, “you should KNOW how to make me happy!!” Wtf. I don’t think she is purposefully being cruel at these times, she just thinks I’m a bad person so no matter what I say or do is bad. The point is, we really can’t win because trying to reason with a pwbpd individual is never going to be successful. There are strategies for side stepping out of the drama. I did find some of it useful. I know I need to set better boundaries like my latest post about how I’ve been texting for a few hours after bedtime, trying to please her and turn her on. I finally got dismissed because she was falling asleep so I finally got to do what I wanted and come on here (though I’m very tired so sorry if I’m not making much sense).

She has so much control though with me not wanting her to have screaming tantrums and upset the kids.

Good luck with the journey anyway, especially the new baby. The children keep me going and they help to keep me sane and calm too.

[Jimothy]

My wife even has a dog boarding business and where she is the meet and greet and get the money person, I am actually the dog carer. I get up early to look after them and then get our kids up and ready and then I’m desperately trying to get her up to take over so I’m not late for work. It’s all about the control with her. And then she gets to say that all I care about is work and I haven’t even asked how she is.

I’ve learnt so much on here and also not sure if anyone recommended the book, “Stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist”. Validating and not JADEing (justify, argue, defend or explain) have been very useful and I also attempt SET sometimes with varying results.

I expect you’ve read that borderline means on the borderline between milder mental conditions like depression and anxiety and more severe psychotic illnesses like schizophrenia. I think it’s an important distinction to understand. My wife is delusional. She goes through phases of presenting as more sane. But when she sees me through those black coloured glasses then everything I do or say is wrong. She has no happy memories of our past. She can’t see that I’m trying and makes accusations of me making no effort. She doesn’t feel wanted, desired, loved or supported and it’s my failing as she believes it’s my responsibility and I also get the line, “you should KNOW how to make me happy!!” Wtf. I don’t think she is purposefully being cruel at these times, she just thinks I’m a bad person so no matter what I say or do is bad. The point is, we really can’t win because trying to reason with a pwbpd individual is never going to be successful. There are strategies for side stepping out of the drama. I did find some of it useful. I know I need to set better boundaries like my latest post about how I’ve been texting for a few hours after bedtime, trying to please her and turn her on. I finally got dismissed because she was falling asleep so I finally got to do what I wanted and come on here (though I’m very tired so sorry if I’m not making much sense).

She has so much control though with me not wanting her to have screaming tantrums and upset the kids.

Good luck with the journey anyway, especially the new baby. The children keep me going and they help to keep me sane and calm too.

Thanks Thankful Person!

As a side note, I'm getting such helpful, kind, and articulate responses from everyone here. As a newcomer it seems so much different from most places on the internet. Everyone I've interacted with so far clearly has spent a lot of time and effort on being a clear communicator, and you all are very effective at it.

I am in literally the exact same situation as you are with the dogs. My wife wanted a dog-based business and I am the one who takes care of the dogs. I'm also the only one who works currently, and I usually get something negative thrown at me literally the second I walk in the door. I do care about her, but if I don't prove it within seconds of coming home, it becomes "too late" for me to do anything nice. In those situations, she views it as me only being reactive to her "begging."

How do you deal with this situation? It seems so intractable, because my wife also gets upset when the other day to day things aren't taken care of in our life. She wouldn't be happy if I stopped doing all of the other things and came home and lavished her with attention. I end up dealing with yelling, throwing things, and all of the other anger symptoms whether the trigger is me not immediately asking how she is or whether me having failed to move some boxes in the garage.

It's so sad when the "black-colored glasses" come out. I have these wonderful memories of our good times together, she does sometimes, but other times seems totally convinced that I am a horrible person who has been neglecting her for years. Having just very recently learned about BPD I'm in a funk right now thinking my whole relationship is built on false pretenses and that I was very naive.

I'm also really struggling to accept that she will essentially control the relationship going forward. I spend so much time and effort trying to find different ways to please her, and it seems like that is going to need to be constant effort to maintain any semblance of normalcy.

[Rev]

No problem at all, I'm happy to more specifically ask the questions. I really appreciate you being willing to answer them. This isn't an exhaustive list. It represents some of the more frustrating issues for me.

1. Why did it take so long for me to become the person at the center of her anger?

Before the last 18 months or so, I would see her idolize then dispose of people. I would see her act unreasonably angry towards people over slight provocations. I would see her get frustrated with people out in the world who didn't see everything as black and white as she did.

During and after these incidents, I was the one she came to for support. I was always able to calm her down and make her feel centered. Now she lashes out at me for everything. We've been more socially isolated since moving back to her hometown, which is somewhat ironic. Is it just because I'm the most conveniently located person to lash out at.

2. How does the BPD interact with hypochondria?

This is one of her worst triggering mechanisms. She will just come up with a diagnosis out of the blue and be concerned that it is life threatening. For instance, she was worried that her ab muscles had torn apart because she was "way way bigger than she should be" at that point in the pregnancy. Luckily, we had a doctor's appointment 2 days later. I told her that it was a justifiable thing to be worried about and that she should take it easy with her core muscles until the appointment. At the appointment, she measured at the low end of the desired range. This didn't change her opinion at all regarding her ab muscles. After the appointment, I told her I thought that was good news. This upset her badly.

She also has had issues with body image. I know that women today are subjected to all kinds of horrific standards with regards to weight etc. However, she would routinely say how fat she is, how her boobs made her look like a cow, how she is just gross. She's an objectively beautiful and rail thin woman. She will make comments about her weight around other women who sometimes appear to be offended because it comes across like my wife is fishing for a compliment.

3. How do I deal with her changing the narrative about our life?

It's so frustrating to have her say things like, "you've never once even attempted to apologize!" When I can literally point to letters I written as apology attempts, text messages, conversations on specific days in specific contexts. She just makes up whatever factual basis is necessary to get to the conclusion of "everything is Jimothy's fault."

She took a mental turn for the worse about two months ago, but now it is "I've been begging and crying for months." I show her pictures of happy things we were doing so recently and remind her of the good times. All that does is lead to accusations of "fighting or trying gaslight her."

I'm worried she's telling other people that I'm being neglectful or even abusive of her. I've noticed the midwives at the clinic treating me different (I've never missed a single appointment, come with a full list of questions every time, have read multiple books about pregnancy and being a supportive birth partner because I've been so affected by my wife's accusations of not caring about her before the pregnancy). I've always had a great relationship with her family, to the point that I enlisted them when she was struggling with mental health previously. Now, I often don't get returned text messages or get terse answers. My in-laws are amazing and I'm worried she's poisoned the well with them.

That is a lot, so I'll leave it there for now. Thanks again to everyone! Just these couple posts have been so cathartic and the replies have been really sympathetic and informative.

Here are my answers.  I've tried to be as brief as possible. The risk is that you hear this as simplistic.  So these answers are meant to start a deeper conversation around the specific things you can do on the one hand - and keep your expectations in check on the other hand.

1. Why did it take so long for me to become the person at the center of her anger?

So - that is a common question.  There's a great article in the tools about the typical cycle of the BPD relationship.
Here's the link:  https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

Basically, I would invite you to remove the words "so long" because they cloud your objectivity. What is long to one person is not long to another.  It would be helpful for you look and the amount of time it did, find the cycle, and identify the steps she went through to get to where she did.  Generally speaking, we all have our core cycles.  And it seems that pwBPD have their cycles tighten over time. For example, my ex wife, had a cycle that went from several years (that is way before I knew her) to one that tightened to four years (when I knew her) to two years (after we separated) to 12 months .... This may play out in intimate relationships, to social ones, to work.  All depends on the context and the person.   Make sense?

2. How does the BPD interact with hypochondria?

That too depends. From what I read here is that hypochondria for her is not the cause, but the symptom of the BPD. It is really common for pwBPD to have distorted body image.  This is a pscyho-somatic reaction to the emotional dysregulation. The lesson for you is to pay attention to the hypochondria as sign that a cycle is being triggered AND leave the hypochondria aside for a second. If you try to attend to the hypochondria, she will likely hear this as resistance in the moment, reinforcing her need in the moment to believe you are somehow going to judge her. The example I always use is this:  In the beginning, you are going to have a really hard time convincing someone who suffers from anorexia that they don't need to lose more weight. They simply can see it.   So BPD doesn't "interact" with hypochondria so much as BPD gives rise to it.  Make sense?

3. How do I deal with her changing the narrative about our life?

Perhaps THE most difficult (and important) question answer.   I must admit that I was never really able to get there. It always seemed that more I tried to empathize, the worse it got. And, full disclosure, I needed to get out because the relationship was in fact abusive - emotionally, physically and financially.  So this question sits in my blind spot.

What I will say is this: 

1) There are tools here to manage these situations.
2) The tools are not silver bullets. They manage the situations but do not change her condition, nor will they change her behaviors. They will manage them. If she is going to change, she will need to put the work in on her own. AND - there is precious little that you will do to "convince" her to do that work.
3) Set your own boundaries to conserve your own mental health.  There are two ways to look at boundaries. One is external - meaning that there are behaviors of hers that you will not tolerate. For example - you will not tolerate her swearing at you. pwBPD rarely tolerate or respect these kinds of boundaries. The disorder doesn't foster understanding.

The other way to look at boundaries is internal. And that is to ask yourself what you are available for, regardless of what is happening. For example, we might say to ourselves that regardless of how unreasonable someone is being, we can tolerate a conversation for 60 minutes. Upon further reflection, let's say, we realize that we can't be there longer than t

4) Finally, there is an integrity piece for you - meaning be really aware of your personal values so that when she is busy spiraling, perhaps running you down to your face and to others in her entourage, you have the endurance to let the truth speak for itself. This too is key.


I hope this helps with the orientation of your life plan.  I want to applaud you because this is really hard stuff. It's murky, takes emotional energy and can cause a lot of self doubt.

So hear this - on these boards - there is tons and tons of experience. You are not alone. We have all been where you are. NO ONE is going to judge you. EVERYONE will listen and offer their best advice. 

Anyone who approaches what you are living in the way you are, that is with kindness and a desire to understand, has a good heart.  We will help you safeguard that so it continues to serve you and your family well.

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

[Rev]

Oops ... 

Here is a typo corrected -

The other way to look at boundaries is internal. And that is to ask yourself what you are available for, regardless of what is happening. For example, we might say to ourselves that regardless of how unreasonable someone is being, we can tolerate a conversation for 60 minutes. Upon further reflection, let's say, we realize that we can't be there longer than thirty.

(now additional thoughts)

External boundaries are about "you" messages even if they are expressed in "I" messages - "I have a hard time when faced with ...."  Even if you see the "I" in the message, very likely a pwBPD will here you saying "YOU are not ....." and will feel controlled, even if you do everything in your power to not have the conversation go there.

Internal boundaries are entirely about "I" messages - "I am not really rested right now and so I am not at my best. I will do my best with what energy I have. I think that will last no more than 30 minutes".

See the difference?

[thankful person]

Jimothy,

Honestly, I have made much more progress than what it might sound like. Much of it has become second nature like the validating and not arguing, which I had no idea how much damage the invalidating and arguing was causing… eg. If she said, “it’s going to be an awful day tomorrow” I used to say, “No it’s not”.. and I just changed this to “mmm” “yeah” or “right” and let her talk, this was along with taking back much of the power particularly surrounding the relationship with my family (still a challenge at times but I’ve fought my corner and made my position clear). I also try to take better care of myself and speak to myself encouragingly (this is also about being a good role model for my children).

I personally found the stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist book much better with practical advice than stop walking on eggshells. Early on in my bpd family journey my wife had a day long tantrum and sulk over me answering a work text on a weekend day and I remember posting on here, “I’ve read stop walking on eggshells but I don’t know how to”. Well, now I know how to (though there are circumstances she retains control due to me not wanting to upset the kids). Anyway, I started doing things like texting work people whenever etc. I didn’t hide it or apologise. At the time I was also doing other things my wife had forbidden like taking pictures of our kids and sending them to my Mum. Anyway, once I found this new confidence funnily, it was like she knew I was serious and no longer going to be bullied out of dealing with work matters whenever I want (for context we’re talking like a 10 second text message). So much has changed for the better.

My wife has unrealistic expectations of me too. It’s like she wants me to be 100% devoted to her needs and desires every second of every day. But then she also wants me to take care of the kids, the dogs, the housework etc. And earn a living. And then says the kids and work is all that matters to me. She’ll say housework isn’t important but then gets upset if things aren’t clean and tidy. I use this low level validation tool, I say “mmm hmm” making eye contact to make her feel heard but not agreeing with her. It has helped me, it sounds like I could be accused of not caring but my wife seems to like it even though “mmm hmm” to me means, “whatever”.

[Jimothy]

Thanks to both Rev and Thankful Person for the detailed responses. I've been listening to the audiobook for "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist" and have found it really helpful so far. I've taken the input received from everyone who has responded to my initial post, and other resources, and have seen some changes. I wouldn't necessarily call them improvements, but after seeing the exact same cycle from her anything that even hints towards a breakthrough is welcome.

I'm really working on setting boundaries. I loved Rev's distinction between internal and external boundaries. I also finally discussed this mental health issue with her family. I previously had been in touch with my wife's family during a previous cycle that we all thought was due to work stress. They were great and very supportive of both her and me. However, my wife asked me to never speak to her family about her mental health again. I had honored that request through several other cycles.

During my conversation with them this time, I brought up the incidents of anger, splitting on people, and goalpost moving. They all had recollections of this happening multiple times before and it was really heartening to hear from them that this behavior isn't something that arose when I came around. This meant so much to hear after being told so vehemently that everything is my fault. During this conversation, I learned that multiple (like over 50%) of the paternal side of her family struggles with mental health and is on some form of medication. I also learned that a cousin  just struggled with extreme depression, anger, and anxiety during her pregnancy and an aunt who is a retired counselor. These family members are reaching out to my wife.

I came to the realization after talking to her family, that my wife was telling them that everything was great and putting on a happy face. Because we live so far away from her family and friends, they don't see the day-to-day changes in her behavior. I was happy to learn that she hadn't been telling her family that I was mistreating her, but I was also sad to learn that she hadn't let anyone else in on how she was feeling.

I'm hopeful that this increased support can make her realize that she needs to take some action for herself. I'm also hopeful that the baby can give her someone else to focus on, instead of her hypochondriac tendencies. Although, I'm terrified of the potential for extreme post-partum depression.

Another question for people whose pwBPD has given birth: Does BPD have any correlation with Munchausen by Proxy syndrome? I'm worried that the same dynamic that leads to her hypochondria and behavior around her perceived illnesses (something is wrong, I need to seek attention from someone who then I can blame for not handling it properly) could lead to her effectively doing the same thing with the baby.

Thanks!

[thankful person]

Another question for people whose pwBPD has given birth: Does BPD have any correlation with Munchausen by Proxy syndrome? I'm worried that the same dynamic that leads to her hypochondria and behavior around her perceived illnesses (something is wrong, I need to seek attention from someone who then I can blame for not handling it properly) could lead to her effectively doing the same thing with the baby.

Thanks!

My wife has always suffered from sickness, diarrhoea, skin complaints, and back problems etc. and although these are physical ailments, lots has been discussed on the forum about the link between hypochondria, bpd, and illness. So I think there is a strong correlation with mental and physical illness. My Dad suffers from Parkinson’s disease (from his 50’s) and our family believe a strong connection to the severe anxiety and hypochondria he suffered throughout his life (I have also read medical journals on this).

Anyway, regards to our 3 babies (one of whom has a life-threatening medical condition), my wife is still completely self-centred and it’s all about her, no munchausen by proxy in sight here. When concerns were raised about our littlest’s slow weight gain due to breast feeding, my wife signed him off from the health visiting program and managed to dodge the dietician, and he never attended any in person appointments after that. (Honestly I wasn’t concerned either because he’s a healthy active boy who just happens to be in the bottom 8% of baby weights for his age). But anyway, my wife was given an opportunity to go all out anxious about his health and chose to go in the opposite direction and I think it’s because she likes the health problems to be all hers. Just my thoughts and experience anyway…

[Randi Kreger]

There is a whole lot in your post, but I decided to stick with she wants apologies and recognition.

I’m sure there is information on validation on this site. However, validation is misunderstood. People think it means agreeing with somebody’s position or it’s like an apology or it somehow gives the high conflict person. Free rein to say whatever they want. None of that is true.

To understand how to do validation, you have to know the difference between a thought, and a feeling. A feeling is one word like, loved comforted, hate, desire, confusion, etc. feelings are generally one word.

Thoughts, on the other hand, or sentences. Somebody may say, “I feel like you are giving up on me, “but that is not a feeling that is a thought.” You should apologize to me” is not a feeling, despite the words “I feel “but a statements, in this case, a statement about what somebody wants.

I don’t know this for sure, but her unhappiness at your apologizing, and such may be because you’re not validating her. I suggest that you try it, get good at it, and decide if it’s helpful to the both of you. You do not have to apologize. You do not have to obey her commands, but you can validate.

Validation helps the person with BPD feel safer, but it can’t make her not have BPD. Things like lack of accountability in the other things that you mention are characteristic of somebody with a high conflict personality. Those aren’t gonna go away.

It’s essential to live in the realm of what is, not what could be if only everything comes together. To stay with somebody with BPD is to radically accept who they are, what they have, and where they are, and decide to work on the relationship based on the information you can find here and elsewhere. I really encourage you to keep track of your feelings and thoughts in a notebook that is hidden somewhere where nobody ever finds anything.

You have my best wishes and kindest thoughts.

[Jimothy]

Thank you to Randi Krieger and Thankful Person.

I've been keeping a journal of incidents between my wife and it has been really helpful to reassure myself that I'm not crazy. I'd recommend everyone try that approach, if you can ensure it won't be found.

I'm really struggling with communication right now. I feel like I'm validating pretty effectively, but that it isn't enough. My wife is not satisfied with me demonstrating that I can understand why she is feeling the way she is and that her conclusions make sense given the way she perceives things.

This validation almost makes her more angry because I won't go the final step and agree with her on everything. Usually this takes the form of her telling me exactly what my own thoughts and motivations have been, usually giving me very sinister motives. If I won't agree with her facts, she had routinely started blowing her lid.

It's really difficult because she is 38 weeks pregnant, which is not good for anyone's mental health. But she has now banned me from any medical appointments regarding our child, routinely throws all of the baby things that either I or my family and friends have bought out into the snow, and most concerning is getting more comfortable being physical and throwing things directly at me.

I'm struggling right now because she's effectively iced me out of the pregnancy. I'm so exhausted and at my wits end.