Another Day Troubleshooting....Tired

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi, I just need to write my thoughts because as
you all will know that when someone is having a BPD rage you have to try and remain calm to stop the situation escalating. I live with my elderly father and at the moment he is mid rage
and is doing the usual. Manic shark eyes screaming expletives and making the atmosphere in the house full of his rage filled self pity. And because I am pretty much all he has in his life I am currently public enemy number one. Which I understand is the norm but however many times it happens it doesn't get any easier. His latest episode is related to his physical health
Through our his life he has always had the need for reassurance from doctors with regards to his physical wellbeing. An obsession with noticing any thing that is a little unusual and considering it to be life threatening or serious. I have read that BPD sufferers can experience something called somatization when rather than focus on what is truly wrong they become fixated with their physical health. Excessive wind resulted in an MRI scan, it is truly endless.  If a doctor doesn't consider their to be a problem he dwells in it and then has a rage. Which is where I am at today and I feel frustrated, alone and guilty that I am not feeling my usual compassionate self. I feel like screaming "What about me"  I have a banging stress headache. And although my logical side tells me it is not his fault, he is ill and is projecting his torment onto me. I'm resentful today and there is no point denying it. The disorder is so selfish it's all Me Me Me, it's so exhausting living with someone who has BPD You have to emotionally recharge during the relatively calm times and then your batteries are completely drained on days like these. I feel better writing this down it won't change anything but it's a God send to have a site where people do truly understand. The problem is when someone constantly discusses their body there is the chance they could have something wrong, which will be dismissed. I would love to hear from anyone who has a loved one with BPD who also has the physical health obsession. It's such a shame if only they could acknowledge the true problem and get treatment. Those that do accept there is something wrong and seek help are so brave. I wish my dad had but he always blames others for his life's problems. It will never change I'm hoping that his idea of going to A&E today isn't actioned and is not necessary. Here's hoping this rage doesn't go into a three day sulk! Thank you for  giving me somewhere to vent I feel camer.

[Red Admiral]

Hi, I just need to write my thoughts because as
you all will know that when someone is having a BPD rage you have to try and remain calm to stop the situation escalating. I live with my elderly father and at the moment he is mid rage
and is doing the usual. Manic shark eyes screaming expletives and making the atmosphere in the house full of his rage filled self pity. And because I am pretty much all he has in his life I am currently public enemy number one. Which I understand is the norm but however many times it happens it doesn't get any easier. His latest episode is related to his physical health
Through our his life he has always had the need for reassurance from doctors with regards to his physical wellbeing. An obsession with noticing any thing that is a little unusual and considering it to be life threatening or serious. I have read that BPD sufferers can experience something called somatization when rather than focus on what is truly wrong they become fixated with their physical health. Excessive wind resulted in an MRI scan, it is truly endless.  If a doctor doesn't consider their to be a problem he dwells in it and then has a rage. Which is where I am at today and I feel frustrated, alone and guilty that I am not feeling my usual compassionate self. I feel like screaming "What about me"  I have a banging stress headache. And although my logical side tells me it is not his fault, he is ill and is projecting his torment onto me. I'm resentful today and there is no point denying it. The disorder is so selfish it's all Me Me Me, it's so exhausting living with someone who has BPD You have to emotionally recharge during the relatively calm times and then your batteries are completely drained on days like these. I feel better writing this down it won't change anything but it's a God send to have a site where people do truly understand. The problem is when someone constantly discusses their body there is the chance they could have something wrong, which will be dismissed. I would love to hear from anyone who has a loved one with BPD who also has the physical health obsession. It's such a shame if only they could acknowledge the true problem and get treatment. Those that do accept there is something wrong and seek help are so brave. I wish my dad had but he always blames others for his life's problems. It will never change I'm hoping that his idea of going to A&E today isn't actioned and is not necessary. Here's hoping this rage doesn't go into a three day sulk! Thank you for  giving me somewhere to vent I feel camer.

[Mommydoc]

I live on the other side of the country from my sister with uBPD, and have maintained strict LC  boundaries, and she still exhausts me some days!  I can’t imagine how draining it must be to live with your father and endure his rants.

One of the things that has helped me is to enlist others to deal with my sister to provide safety and distance for me.  Are there other people who could provide support, visit him and help with medical visits.  My sister has tons of medical problems and even though I am a physician, I try to distance myself… I encourage her to talk to her doctors, and will only offer minimal medical advice when she asks very specific questions. I feel certain a lot of is amplification or attention seeking, but there may be some real issues beneath it all.   Most of the time, I focus on validation about how hard it must be and sorry you are experiencing this.  I hope you can try not to take responsibility for his care and well being and focus on your own self care. What can you do for yourself when you are experiencing these frustrations?

[Red Admiral]

Thank you for your message it was very much appreciated. Simply knowing that there are others out there in the same boat helps me tremendously. The health thing is just one of dads trigger points when he feels he is not getting sufficient attention. I also spent years working in a medical field and it is at times frustrating when you can recognize what is a real and genuine problem and one that is essentially psychosomatic. Once he has had professional confirmation that all is ok or has had some tests it is essentially like he has been given a calmative and an external source of positive affirmation. As a rule I have the patience of Job and I cope alone pretty well with the situation and when he is not raging, depressed or dissociated he has moments of happiness and clarity. During these times he accepts fully that he has a problem and acknowledges that he has all of the DSM criteria. He prefers to call it "Berserker Syndrome" I think to normalize it and make it sound like a normal masculine trait when it is clearly not. Unfortunately I am alone with the problem I have a half brother who has ADHD and also proudly tells people he is a sociopath, which I am in no doubt is true. He has a relationship with his dad and knows that there is something wrong with him but has no clue as to what. Suffice to say there is not much healthy communication between the pair of them and it often exacerbates the situation with dad. I have a half sister who unsurprisingly went No Contact many years ago which is a shame. I validate a lot but sometimes during a rage it is impossible to remain calm because he is incredibly, vindictive and spiteful. I don't engage when he is hostile but it is a little difficult as I have nowhere else to go. Normally after a full on rage he is dissociated tired and depressed and that is where he is at today, not nice but far more manageable. He has a doctors appointment tomorrow which will hopefully give him added validation or treatment if it is necessary. If I won the lottery I would live next door to him and continue to try and support him, but as that is highly unlikely I have no option but to wait for the storms to pass and enjoy what peace I can when I am able to. Once again thank you for your response and I hope all remains calm with your sister.

[Notwendy]

At the source of this behavior is your father's anxiety. Anxiety can result in all kinds of behaviors- being controlling is one of them. When your father feels anxiety- this is how he acts on it. You ( understandably) feel uncomfortable when this happens- you know he's about to rage or act out, so you help to reassure him with troubleshooting.

Every behavior has a cost and a payoff. If the payoff is greater than the cost, the behavior continues. This can be applied to all behaviors.

Consider- what is the payoff for your father? This helps him to manage his feelings.
What about you? If you can manage his feelings, you feel safer around him. But you are also feeling weary of doing this- that is the key for who has to make the change. This behavior works for your father- he is not going to be motivated to change.  This means the change in the dynamics between the two of you has to be with you.

With an elderly parent- you are assuming a caretaker role. There's nothing wrong with that. However, self care is also a part of this arrangement. You are correct that finances are a consideration. The cost of care for an elderly person is significant. However, there are other ways to get assistance or respite for caregivers. I don't know what country you are in, but in the US there's Medicaid that could provide some home health and cover nursing home costs if needed. There may be some adult day care or respite programs near you. If your father doesn't have the need for these resources yet, it is still a good idea to look into them. It can feel less overwhelming to know what is available. Also there are support groups for caregivers in some areas.

You can ask your father's doctor. It's also possible that your father's doctor can prescribe some medicine to help with anxiety or mood. It doesn't "treat" BPD but it may help him to feel less anxious.

The raging is cyclic and also I think unavoidable. It's how pwBPD deal with their feelings. After the rage, you probably see he is calmer. Rather than try to stop it, ( which you probably can't do)- have ways of taking care of yourself when he does it. If he's safe to be left on his own, step away, go for a car ride, or a walk or go sit in a coffee shop for a bit, even stay with a friend for the time being.

Your father is not going to change his behavior- not at his age. Even if he didn't have BPD- as a caregiver, you would also need some self care. Your task is to find ways to get some time for yourself to do this.

[Red Admiral]

Every behavior has a cost and a payoff. If the payoff is greater than the cost, the behavior continues. This can be applied to all behaviors.

Consider- what is the payoff for your father? This helps him to manage his feelings.
What about you? If you can manage his feelings, you feel safer around him. But you are also feeling weary of doing this- that is the key for who has to make the change. This behavior works for your father- he is not going to be motivated to change.  This means the change in the dynamics between the two of you has to be with you.

Thank you  Notwendy for your message and very clear insight into the dynamic. As being calm is incredibly important to my peace of mind and wellbeing. I do what is necessary to try and stop the rage before it starts if at all possible. As you know once it starts it has a force of it's own. Dad has done this all of his life and as you rightly say he is too old to change.

I have always tried to carry my own water and I am always the listening ear for many people throughout my life. But I know that I have to reach out. I have told a few  friends the full dynamic but it is usually when I am calm.  Subsequently they do not really understand how much it impacts me. Today I went round one of my friends who I have helped through a traumatic time and I cried in front of her. May not seem much but to me it is a big deal. I know that this change must come from me and your words rang so very true. I cannot lie it will be difficult to maintain an empathetic and validating stance but from a more pragmatic stance. But I am ever the optimist and I know that I have to do this for me, before I become physically ill. I did the depression test and l was in the moderate range which is solely because of external factors.

Dad is not at the stage of medical intervention or help, but I think there may be a carers support group in the area. I would not normally fully leave the situation but I am going out for a coffee in a
a minute which will give me some headspace. Dad is very quiet now which is the norm after a full on rage. I thank you once again for your advice. Take care and good luck with your situation.

[Notwendy]

It is good that you are taking a coffee break and reaching out for support.

Even if your father is not at the age where he needs medical support- it isn't too soon to learn about the options if he were to need it. It has been a learning experience  and it helps to know what to do. If someone were to need assistance from Medicaid- there are several rules to know about, and some involve assets. Medicaid also looks back at 5 years of financial information. One can not give away their assets and then claim they need Medicaid. The house you are both in is an asset. In the case of a married couple, the spouse can keep the house but if not, Medicaid consider the house as an asset they count against the need. If your father has not made plans such as assigning you as power of attorney,  I think it is very helpful to consult an elder care attorney on how to do it and also how to maintain compliance with Medicaid laws in your state.

With my BPD mother, she has not been very cooperative with planning or disclosing her financial information. Yet, she did assign me as power of attorney.  It's only been recently that I have had to use it to access her financial information as she can not manage it herself. It's been difficult to work with her bank because banks, and some credit cards want their own power of attorney forms. There was not a way to be proactive with BPD mother as she doesn't disclose information and wants to stay in control but trying to find it and access it when she does need it has not been ideal.  If your father is cooperative, it's a good idea to do things now that will enable you to assist him if he needs it.

There are pros and cons to having an adult child's name on a bank account, and one has to be careful to not combine money or transactions. The parent is the primary owner of the account. This is not the same as naming a beneficiary to an account.

If your father is willing to be cooperative, it is best to have what you may need all set up before he needs it if you have not done so already.

[beatricex]

Hi RedAdmiral,
Yes, there is someone else out there
My Mom discusses her body and the chance she could have something wrong, nearly everyday of her life since I've known her.  She's definitely a hypochondriac.  So much so that we call her "Doctor Pat."

On her third back surgery, and she's bent over after the second one...she literally walks like she's folded now (she was better before that back surgery).

Many years ago she had liposuction and reconstructive surgery on her stomach, which was a high risk surgery.  She doesn't care, she will go under the knife it seems just to get some attention (nurses and doctors can't ignore you).

She had her last back surgery a few months in to COVID.  It was funny hearing her tell every nurse that came into her surgery suite and recovery room "I would like you to wash your hands PLEASE" (picture a very snide tone of voice, she's not saying this nice, it's more like CAUGHT YOU!)

Her and my Dad have both been fired from many practices.

Hang in there, this too shall pass.  I try to find the humor now in my Mom's retelling of her physical ailments, which I feel a tad built guilty about (but only a tad), but humor is one coping mechanism so I use it cause it's about all I got, lest I go crazy too!!
 
b

[Red Admiral]

Thank You Beatricex and NotWendy for your supportive words I really appreciate them. I am not sure how to reply to each post separately so I have put them together.

 Hi Notwendy I live in the UK so things are a little different here with regards to medical support. But one thing you suggested that I have checked whether it is possible, is a visit to see my fathers doctor. I was unsure whether I could do this but I can. Although they apparently will not discuss their patient I would be able to raise my concerns. Hopefully then at a future consultation they could probe gently into his true state of mind and not focus on the physical ailments that he discusses. He has seen a counsellor in the past due to his rages and a planned suicide attempt so they would be able to see this on his patient medical record. Thank you for guiding me in a direction that could give a positive result. Financially dad is fair and not in the least bit obstructive he knows that I have his best interests at heart when he is not in a rage. I am his Power of Attorney and also he has made me secure if anything were to happen to him. He once said to me that it was all he was capable of doing, because he has no clue how to implement emotional care towards others. Which was very candid of him and sad but ultimately true. I have realised today that this situation cannot carry on as it is. Although I am incredibly patient with him and do all that I can to keep things calm at home it is taking a toll on me. I feel sad that over the years pretty successfully I have managed to put a dressing on a wound that constantly needs changing and it has done no good. It has allowed dad to continue his behaviour and not actually reach a crisis point. If people other than myself could see how he actually feels and behaves, the mask slipping would enable some sort of treatment plan. For my health and wellbeing I am going to have to take a step back from the situation and see what happens. I have no clue what will happen but I feel that is the only option. Thank you once again for your advice.

Hi Beatricex thank you so much for letting me know that I was not alone with the medical obsession theme. It is crazy making how a medical appointment, operation or test can bring them such relief (as long as they sanitize their hands correctly) you couldn't make it up!  At times I admit I have found it humorous at some of the absurd medical deductions that can be reached  that defy anatomy and all logic. Dad is at the Doctors today and is demanding a certain course of action. I expect he will be able to convince them into giving him another test. The sad thing is that when they constantly seek attention in this way, one day they may cry wolf and a real emergency could be ignored. Your mums back problem sounds awful especially when it is self induced. A continuing theme that must be so tiring for you I am sorry that you are also in the same boat.  But so grateful that you have shared your story with me thank you.

[Notwendy]

I don't know if it is possible but ask your father to sign medical consents so his own medical providers can speak to you. If your POA does not include a medical POA- I suggest you get that one too.

I have full POA but as long as BPD mother is deemed "legally competent" ( which doesn't mean making wise decisions but she can do what she wants) she can make her own decisions. My father (deceased) did allow his doctor to speak to me but BPD mother did not. Eventually though she indirectly allowed it when she approved other legal papers and so I am able to speak to her medical providers- but only if there's the need to. It seems as if your father is agreeable to letting you have permissions and so, it would be good to have them if needed.

I think it is good you are taking some distance for yourself. If your father at some point does need more assistance and can qualify in the UK for it- such as a visiting home health nurse to come check on him a few times a week, consider this is to help you maintain your self which helps him too.

[Red Admiral]

As dad is high functioning I know that unless he had a full on meltdown that resulted in him being admitted to a psychiatric unit, would he want me to have any legal access to his doctors whether verbally or otherwise. And for me personally I don't think it would be necessary, but I totally understand why it would be important to do so in situations when a person is clearly not making sound decisions. I will double check whether I can communicate with his Doctor. It looks like in the UK in the event of you being concerned about a person's mental health it is possible. But the Doctor is only permitted to listen and not respond.Although dad's behaviour has had implications on the world outside the home. He is very adept at purveying to strangers that he is perfectly well adjusted. It is only people who have lived with him who know  the true and full picture.
I have tried to look for your previous posts so I can read your full story about your mum. Is she low functioning and by default her behavior is noticed by others beyond the family or is she like my father and effectively under the radar?

[Notwendy]

Is she low functioning and by default her behavior is noticed by others beyond the family or is she like my father and effectively under the radar?

She's a combination of both. As to her daily function, and emotionally, she is at the level of a child- completely dependent on others for even daily tasks. Being elderly has made this appear more "normal" as elderly people do need assistance, but this is how she has always been.

However, there is a side of her that is very intelligent. It just doesn't translate into being capable in a practial manner. In short conversations and superficial situations, she appears intact and competent. In this way, she flies under the radar. My father assisted in supporting this appearance by doing things for her and once we kids were old enough to do daily tasks we did them too. It was a private endeavor. In addition, my father had the resources to hire household help and nannies. We didn't understand why at the time but can see now why.

On one hand she insists on secrecy and maintaining control but eventually when her finances were a mess we (her family) stepped in and now have access to that information. It's a difficult situation because she still has legal capacity to make her own decisions and doesn't cooperate with us. The advice to not enable states to let adults face the consequences of their own behavior unless it's directly harmful, but with the dependence and emotions of a child and the intelligence of an adult, it's an odd in between.

Her hired caregivers and medical team are all aware of her issues because it's not a short term superficial relationship. She can appear intact long enough to pass as legally competent but for those who know her better, they can see the issues.

[Red Admiral]

Thank You Notwendy for giving me some background information. It must be an extremely hard situation to manage. The combination of both I am sure creates a great deal of confusion, and also I suspect in the past caused doubts to be raised as to whether she had a personality disorder. Not for those within her close circle but those beyond it which is the same as my father. It is incredibly frustrating and although I am in no doubt they cannot help the majority of their deregulated thinking, I have always thought that there is a degree of conscious manipulation behind their actions. Many say otherwise but to know how to alter and adapt their communication to achieve a particular goal to me implies that they know precisely what they are doing. Your father sounds a lovely man who did all that he could to protect you and your siblings and I am sorry for your loss. It is strange for me that my mother had NPD (diagnosed in her 40's because of a custody case) and my father has undiagnosed BPD. Because it gives a clear comparison between the two.  My mother was incredibly manipulative and I have always believed that dad doesn't mean to be so it lessens the impact and NPD was far worse. After being on the receiving end of both they are as bad as one another. I would be interested to find out what you and others think about whether a person with BPD consciously manipulates others.

[Notwendy]

With my BPD mother, she also fits criteria for NPD. It's that she has more BPD traits than NPD but the number is very close. She is deliberately manipulative and also enjoys manipulating people. She also lies. This is why it helps to be able to speak to her health care providers as I don't know if what she tells me is true or not.

As to BPD, I think they do manipulate on purpose but possibly more like a child does to get what they want. I think everyone manipulates to a certain extent but we learn as adults that to over do it isn't appropriate behavior. Still- people do try to influence others, such as in sales. It isn't a good thing to do in relationships.

A child might want to eat cookies before dinner and might whine or coerce or even sneak them and convince the parent they didn't. Is the child a liar or being manipulative? Or is the child acting their age and has not learned otherwise yet? For an adult with BPD they may be acting emotionally like a child, so it's hard to know for certain. Still - they are considered legally competent adults and so are responsible for their actions, no matter the reason for them.

[Red Admiral]

What a clever analogy with the cookies and also very wise. Your mum sounds very complex to be match DSM criteria in almost equal proportions is a lot to deal with. The manipulation from the perspective of a child doing so does lessen the impact to a degree. When I watch programmes with a child acting terribly to try and achieve a goal, it is precisely how dad acts. Seeing an adult who is supposedly mature using language and the actions of a toddler for the same ends, is at times difficult to rationalize... but all par for this crazy deal that we have been dealt.