Things have gone Pear Shaped with by Parent with BPD

[Flannelflower]

I know when my mom has gotten upset and attacked me and I don't contact her, I start to feel guilty. My mom expects to be pursued and for me to chase her. If I don't, she doesn't believe I love her. To her, that is how I prove love...especially since she is elderly.  It plays on my emotions and I can't stand thinking she feels unloved.   Will your mother understand why you aren't sending a card? I don't think she's going to get it and don't think she's going to apologize.  I'm definitely no expert on this though.  I don't think including a note with the card is the best way to say "Happy Christmas". 

Yes, I hear you.  I feel guilty too.  And yes, my mum just expects everything to come her way, the love, the pursuing and chasing....everything really - with no thought of doing anything for anyone else.   Thanks for your thoughts about the apology and the card.  I think you are right. 

[Notwendy]

My BPD mother was angry at me at the time that my father passed away. At the time, I had the choice to go NC. I don't think she'd have cared at that point what I did but also probably might have "come around" later as it tends to be a cycle. I didn't want to go NC- it would be problematic to some extent- first was her age- it didn't seem OK to do that.

A friend of mine suggested a schedule to call her- and to stay with that schedule. This way, she'd learn that I would call on that schedule. I didn't have to answer calls at other times. The schedule could be as I chose it- it was once a week. Same day. If she didn't want to speak to me when I called- that was her choice. If I didn't want to answer calls at other times, that was my choice.

That schedule has been looser lately since she's had some medical issues but also when she's feeling OK- she doesn't call me. If calls are more frequent- I can tell it feels stressful. Too far between calls is also concerning as I prefer to know how she is doing.

The calling on a schedule was not connected to emotions so it wasn't connected to a feeling or reaction. I did change the content of the calls- to less emotional discussions. The idea of LC was the emotional aspect. I don't share personal feelings or information.

Our relationship feels disconnected but I don't think it's for the worse. I think that the feeling of "connection" is the drama- not the kind of connection in a different relationship. Drama is a part of how she interacts with people- emotional drama is a connection. When there's intense emotions- it's an emotional focus.

I think she is aware that I am more emotionally "distant" and has asked people about that. I didn't know as much about BPD at the time my father passed away and her behavior had escalated. The distance was not about her but that I wanted to reduce the drama. The limit to a more connected relatioship with her is her BPD.

I wanted to point out something- when you mention "she has felt the consequences". Choosing NC or LC is not about them, or trying to send them a message. It's not possible to know what anyone else is thinking or feeling. Trying to get them to see the consequences of their behavior doesn't seem successful. It's for you. If you need a 3 month break- then that is for you.

You might want to consider after the New Year to have a schedule. You don't have to say anything to her ( I suggest not). You just start- like every Sunday at 2 pm, or every other, or once a month- whatever you choose. Call and just chat about whatever, not emotional content. Ask how she is doing. If she escalates- just say you need to go and will speak to her later and hang up, politely.

[Teach21]

One day it will I guess and we will grieve the mother we never had and the sad life that they lived. 
Boundaries are really important but hard to do.  I've seen some great online videos.  I like Karla Downing from Change My Relationship.  She has a good Facebook with daily things I find helpful.  Also a guy called Jerry Wise who has videos I've found helpful.  Not sure if you've found anything helpful online.  It's hard when you can't afford therapy, which is expensive.  I'm coming to the end of what I can afford and am a bit anxious about not having that support

Thank you for your reply.   I will check those videos out. I appreciate it!

[Flannelflower]

A friend of mine suggested a schedule to call her- and to stay with that schedule. This way, she'd learn that I would call on that schedule. I didn't have to answer calls at other times. The schedule could be as I chose it- it was once a week. Same day. If she didn't want to speak to me when I called- that was her choice. If I didn't want to answer calls at other times, that was my choice.

That schedule has been looser lately since she's had some medical issues but also when she's feeling OK- she doesn't call me. If calls are more frequent- I can tell it feels stressful. Too far between calls is also concerning as I prefer to know how she is doing.

The calling on a schedule was not connected to emotions so it wasn't connected to a feeling or reaction. I did change the content of the calls- to less emotional discussions. The idea of LC was the emotional aspect. I don't share personal feelings or information.

Our relationship feels disconnected but I don't think it's for the worse. I think that the feeling of "connection" is the drama- not the kind of connection in a different relationship. Drama is a part of how she interacts with people- emotional drama is a connection. When there's intense emotions- it's an emotional focus.

I wanted to point out something- when you mention "she has felt the consequences". Choosing NC or LC is not about them, or trying to send them a message. It's not possible to know what anyone else is thinking or feeling. Trying to get them to see the consequences of their behavior doesn't seem successful. It's for you. If you need a 3 month break- then that is for you.

You might want to consider after the New Year to have a schedule. You don't have to say anything to her ( I suggest not). You just start- like every Sunday at 2 pm, or every other, or once a month- whatever you choose. Call and just chat about whatever, not emotional content. Ask how she is doing. If she escalates- just say you need to go and will speak to her later and hang up, politely.

Thank you Notwendy.  That is great advice about the schedule. It will also stop my thinking and worrying about when to call. It feels similar to what my SIL suggested to me about taking back control and making it about what will be best for me. And I agree - for me no contact won’t feel right. But I need to limit my exposure to drama as that is what triggers me.
I hadn’t thought of LC in terms of content of conversations. And yes, the limiting factor to our connection is her BPD. And that’s not something I can control.
And I get your point about the consequences. I need to keep taking the focus of what I’m doing back from her to me. It’s a hard mind shift after a lifetime of focusing on what she is thinking and feeling. But I’ll keep working on it.

[Flannelflower]

You’re welcome Teach21. Both of them do a lot of content on boundaries, being non-reactive, and detaching with love.

[Notwendy]

It’s a hard mind shift after a lifetime of focusing on what she is thinking and feeling. But I’ll keep working on it.

Understandable- this is how we managed since childhood- it's a skill we learned- to "read" the emotions and the emotional climate of the household. The main focus of our family was BPD mother's feelings and her mood.

ACA and CODA groups were helpful to me with the idea of keeping the focus to "my side of the fence". CODA isn't only for families with alcohol issues- the dynamics are similar for children who grew up in a home with dysfunction in general.

With my BPD mother, she tends to dissociate and so consequences don't seem to register with her. If a relationship is strained - she doesn't seem to connect this to her own behavior. Her perspective is that if someone is keeping a distance from her- they are the problem, they are being hurtful to her. I don't wish to be hurtful to her- but I can not control how she thinks or feels.

It seems as if even when I do visit and do nice things for her - she will focus on something I didn't do or did not do according to her wishes- and then tell me how hurtful it was. So whatever I do- it needs to be without expectations of how she will feel about it. Sometimes she acknowleges it and sometimes not- but I don't have any control over that.

I also think we feel a sense of discomfort with keeping a distance. Society has different expectations. I think we wish for something different but we are just trying to do what we can in this situation.

[Methuen]

It seems as if even when I do visit and do nice things for her - she will focus on something I didn't do or did not do according to her wishes- and then tell me how hurtful it was.

This!
Honestly, I could do 10 amazing things for my mom and she either ignores or dismisses them. Instead, she tells me about something I didn’t do that she says I should have, and she says it in a way to make me feel terrible. Like so many people on this board have said “It doesn’t matter how much I do, it’s never enough “.

Honestly, it feels as if she is living in a victim zone and bathing herself in negative confirmation bias.  What I mean by this is that since she lives in a perpetual state of victim perspective, confirmation bias is at play and she can only see the negative. She can’t see or acknowledge the nice things we have done because it doesn’t fit her victim perspective.  As a Borderline, she doesn’t feel worthy when nice things are done for her so she ignores them. Instead, to fit her victim perspective, she feels bad about something she perceives I didn’t do, and that’s what she feels comfortable telling me about, because it fits her victim perspective. 

Here’s another example.  Years and years ago when the kids were young and she was still fit and able, we used to exchange dinners.  I would cook a dinner and have my parents over.  She would cook a dinner and have us over.  She would always ask “how did I do?” (Neediness - needing validation - every single time). So we would tell her it was delicious - and she would ignore it and change the topic.  Every single time.  It was as if she couldn’t accept a compliment.  I have a theory now that this comes from her BPD and not feeling worthy, but back then I had never heard of BPD.  And we didn’t understand what was behind this merry-go-round, but now that I understand more, I theorize that it’s negative confirmation bias at play.  She wanted the validation for her efforts so we would always tell her the meal was delicious, but the compliment didn’t fit her victim perspective and her feeling of not being worthy, so she would ignore the compliment.  It was so bizarre to never get a response to the compliment after she essentially asked for it.

That’s just my theory.  I don’t know. 

The next thing is how exhausting it is over a lifetime to have tried so hard by doing so many kind and special things, only to ever be told what you didn’t do and how I failed her. I made my mom my matron of honour at our wedding to make her feel good and keep her at the center of attention.  We even included her in a holiday we went on with best friends so she wouldn’t feel “left behind “ (abandoned).  At the end of the day, all of that is forgotten if I’m not meeting her current immediate need.  I’m either black or white.  There is no shade of grey. At some point you burn out, and I suspect most of us on here are burned out for trying. Especially when the criticism comes with so much vitriol and revenge.

I also think we feel a sense of discomfort with keeping a distance. Society has different expectations.

This.  I really struggle with this.  People in my community know me.  They know I’m a kind person because I made a career out of working with people and building relationships. They also know my mom, but they don’t “really know her”. They only know the side she presents to them, which is charming and not the side she presents to me.  Sometimes it feels like she has a split personality and she saves all the bad stuff for me. But people don’t know that, and there are definitely expectations that a daughter will “look after” her mother especially when you live in the same small community. These expectations are torturous because I’m a good person and want to help my mom, but there’s a big limit to what I can do because it becomes emotionally abusive.   But people don’t know that.  They only know what they see, and that is her old lady charm. So I feel like people think I should do more. I can’t count the number of times I have ben asked “does your mom live with you?”  That simple question conveys huge societal expectations. I wish it was an option, but it is not. So I struggle with not feeling like a failure as a daughter because that is what my mom communicates to me. 

[Methuen]

For some reason her saying she was disgusted with me, in such a cold and angry way, triggered the childhood abuse and I have spiralled since then.
I decided I wouldn't speak with her again unless she apologised.  And I wouldn't answer the phone and let her leave a message so I knew she was sorry.
A week or so later she was involving my brother to call me.  All she was concerned about was that I believe her that the doctor did come.  When he told her that I was upset she had told me off and hung up on me she told him, that's not what happened.  She shouted at ME and called me a liar.
So I've stayed away and now it has been 2 months.  I feel so guilty for not being in contact with her.  I wish I had said nothing about the doctor.  I realise that she will never agree with the truth of what happened and I wish I had just taken her next call and let it go.

This is exactly the kind of vitriol I am referring to.  It doesn’t matter what kindnesses you have done previously, they seem to only be able to focus on looking for negative confirmation bias.  So since your speaking the truth didn’t fit with her narrative around the doctor, that’s what she focuses on and creates drama around. And she paints you black.  But that doesn’t mean it’s true.  It’s not.  But it still feels yucky because she’s your mother, and we’re supposed to be able to trust and feel safe with our mothers.

I hope you are finding lots of ways to take care of yourself.  How is it going?

[Notwendy]

Honestly, it feels as if she is living in a victim zone and bathing herself in negative confirmation bias.  What I mean by this is that since she lives in a perpetual state of victim perspective, confirmation bias is at play and she can only see the negative. She can’t see or acknowledge the nice things we have done because it doesn’t fit her victim perspective.  As a Borderline, she doesn’t feel worthy when nice things are done for her so she ignores them. Instead, to fit her victim perspective, she feels bad about something she perceives I didn’t do, and that’s what she feels comfortable telling me about, because it fits her victim perspective. 

Here’s another example.  Years and years ago when the kids were young and she was still fit and able, we used to exchange dinners.  I would cook a dinner and have my parents over.  She would cook a dinner and have us over.  She would always ask “how did I do?” (Neediness - needing validation - every single time). So we would tell her it was delicious - and she would ignore it and change the topic.  Every single time.  It was as if she couldn’t accept a compliment. 

I have a theory now that this comes from her BPD and not feeling worthy, but back then I had never heard of BPD.  And we didn’t understand what was behind this merry-go-round, but now that I understand more, I theorize that it’s negative confirmation bias at play.  She wanted the validation for her efforts so we would always tell her the meal was delicious, but the compliment didn’t fit her victim perspective and her feeling of not being worthy, so she would ignore the compliment.  It was so bizarre to never get a response to the compliment after she essentially asked for it.

That’s just my theory.  I don’t know. 


At the end of the day, all of that is forgotten if I’m not meeting her current immediate need.  I’m either black or white.  There is no shade of grey. At some point you burn out, and I suspect most of us on here are burned out for trying. Especially when the criticism comes with so much vitriol and revenge.
 

My BPD mother rarely cooks but when she did, she'd ask frequently- does it taste OK? Really? and we say yes and then "does it need more salt" no and then asks something else.

One thing she does is to have people do things for her, she doesn't do a thing, then proceeds to criticize what was done for her.

BPD mother was in a nursing home where she was being well cared for but she complained about it and wanted to go back to the assisted living she was staying in. Now she's in the AL complaining about how worse the care is there. It's not worse. It doesn't suit her expectations. I have met some of the residents at the AL. Except for the memory care unit ( which BPD mother does no need- she doesn't have dementia) these residents are independent and mentally intact.  They are in AL for assistance with some daily tasks but are otherwise capable. They socialize with each other but BPD mother does not want to join them.

One thing that has helped is to see that she behaves this way with others too. Not that it is OK but that I can see that it isn't personal.

[Flannelflower]

This is exactly the kind of vitriol I am referring to.  It doesn’t matter what kindnesses you have done previously, they seem to only be able to focus on looking for negative confirmation bias.  So since your speaking the truth didn’t fit with her narrative around the doctor, that’s what she focuses on and creates drama around. And she paints you black.  But that doesn’t mean it’s true.  It’s not.  But it still feels yucky because she’s your mother, and we’re supposed to be able to trust and feel safe with our mothers.

I hope you are finding lots of ways to take care of yourself.  How is it going?

Thanks Methuen.  Yes, that is all totally true.  And I think what has triggered the deeper grief around not being able to trust or feel safe around my mother & knowing I never will.  I hope this stressful time will allow me to grieve that more fully and cope better.

I got a call from the NH that Mother is worried she can't reach me.  I decided to give her a call.  I feel like with the help I've got here I have had time to process what happened and be prepared with better strategies moving forward.
She did sound quite upset I hadn't called and the first thing she said was 'I didn't refuse to see the doctor you know'.  But I was prepared now with everyone saying she'll never admit to anything and of course she didn't apologise as everyone has said. 

I ended up just saying yes, I haven't been very well.  I have some depression and anxiety and the doctor said I need to stay calm and rest up.  I know she will be happy with that as she will be able to tell everyone it's because there is something wrong with me : ).  But I also think it could be a strategy moving forward when she gets super hysterical....oh, sorry, I'd like to help you with that but I'm not feeling well at the moment and am finding it stressful.  I have to remember it will all blow over until the next time and is just a cycle that repeats and repeats.

I'm thinking the advice of having a set time to call her, and taking back more control of responding to her as well as being involved in this great community and learning more about BPD and being non-reactive etc will help me. 
Thank you to everyone who has responded so generously with support and advice 

[Flannelflower]

One thing that has helped is to see that she behaves this way with others too. Not that it is OK but that I can see that it isn't personal.

I am going to write this in my new journal I'm using.  It is true - hard to remember at the time, but yes, my mother yells at and is like this to others too.  Reminding myself not to take it personally will be SO important. 

[Flannelflower]

Understandable- this is how we managed since childhood- it's a skill we learned- to "read" the emotions and the emotional climate of the household. The main focus of our family was BPD mother's feelings and her mood.

ACA and CODA groups were helpful to me with the idea of keeping the focus to "my side of the fence". CODA isn't only for families with alcohol issues- the dynamics are similar for children who grew up in a home with dysfunction in general.

With my BPD mother, she tends to dissociate and so consequences don't seem to register with her. If a relationship is strained - she doesn't seem to connect this to her own behavior. Her perspective is that if someone is keeping a distance from her- they are the problem, they are being hurtful to her. I don't wish to be hurtful to her- but I can not control how she thinks or feels.

It seems as if even when I do visit and do nice things for her - she will focus on something I didn't do or did not do according to her wishes- and then tell me how hurtful it was. So whatever I do- it needs to be without expectations of how she will feel about it. Sometimes she acknowleges it and sometimes not- but I don't have any control over that.

I also think we feel a sense of discomfort with keeping a distance. Society has different expectations. I think we wish for something different but we are just trying to do what we can
 in this situation.

This is all so true.  My mother had no concept when I spoke with her that it was her behaviour that caused this all to happen.
Thanks for the tip about ACA and CODA groups.  I had heard that in the past but forgotten so I will check them out. 

[Notwendy]

I think if there are issues, it's because something is "wrong" with the other person or some other reason. The "reason" can not be her.

Now that your mother is in nursing home care- you may also hear about how "terrible" someone on the staff is. I have met the staff at the assisted living and nursing home and think they are doing a good job. It wouldn't surprise me if they got exasperated with her at times and they may have to attend to another resident and ask her to wait. If she's saying these things to me about other people, she also is possibly saying things about me to them.

From my own observation (and I have read it)- pwBPD assume victim perspective on the Karpman triangle. Victims are not at fault. I think this avoids the feeling of shame for them - which is difficult for them. With my mother, there isn't accountability on her part- and this seems to be a part of her thinking.