Backtracking an apology?

[uncleflo]

Hi All,

Thanks, as always, for your guidance and wisdom on all things BPD.

Story and then a question… after my partner read the answers to my workbook answers from a couples therapy book, she apologized for abusing me. This was a first, as she has never acknowledged the abuse she has put me through these last 20+ years. "But please know I am deeply deeply sorry for the abusiveness (yes that is what it is) you describe in parts of the document. You never deserved any of that." It felt like progress!

A day later, she sends me a cold text saying, "We have both mistreated the other over the years," which feels as if she realized she'd admitted something and needed to retract her apology by making it seem like we have been equally abusive to one another - any of my verbal freakouts always came as a result of me discovering she had cheated on me yet again. Being that we're in-home separated and only I am actively working on the marriage (we agreed to read the same workbook; only I did), I have reached the point where I'm ready to move on. I expressed this to her before providing her with my workbook answers, and I think she's beginning to realize my boundaries are firm with her and I'm done with all of the drama. Proud of that.

Is it common for people with PDs to backtrack, especially when it comes to ownership of their actions?

Unc

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[Pook075]

Hey Unc!  I'm getting ready for church so I'll give you the short version for now...I don't see that as backtracking.  She had a realization, apologized, and now she's trying to justify her behavior.  That's growth and it's a good thing, even if she's thinking, "Well, I did this because he did that."

This is your chance to turn the tides.  Accept the apology and offer one of your own.  This happened with my BPD daughter a little over a year ago and everything changed because of it, we were able to heal and grow close once again.  Forgive your wife and ask for forgiveness!  Only good can come of it.  You've done things wrong just like all of us have, nobody is perfect and dealing with a BPD spouse is trying to say the least.

One last thing- if you're going to forgive, it has to be authentic to have a meaningful impact.  That means no more arguing over who said what six years ago or six days ago.  Let that crap go, because it's ultimately just crap.  She apologized and that's a massive step that was super hard for her...almost impossible.  Accept it with grace and apologize yourself. 

Okay, off to church!

[uncleflo]

Thank you, Pook.

[uncleflo]

The biggest hiccup, however, is that before she apologized, she reiterated that she doesn't have any romantic feelings towards me and sees us as platonic ("a dear friend"). So, yes, the apology is very nice (and reaffirming) on one level but then having the door shut on me, on us, beforehand makes making significant progress difficult.

[Pook075]

The biggest hiccup, however, is that before she apologized, she reiterated that she doesn't have any romantic feelings towards me and sees us as platonic ("a dear friend"). So, yes, the apology is very nice (and reaffirming) on one level but then having the door shut on me, on us, beforehand makes making significant progress difficult.

That's fine, because it's a place to start.  A marathon is won by taking the first step, then many more steps after that.  So start the race, take the first step, and who knows what may come of it.

[SaltyDawg]

A day later, she sends me a cold text saying, "We have both mistreated the other over the years," which feels as if she realized she'd admitted something and needed to retract her apology by making it seem like we have been equally abusive to one another - any of my verbal freakouts always came as a result of me discovering she had cheated on me yet again. Being that we're in-home separated and only I am actively working on the marriage (we agreed to read the same workbook; only I did), I have reached the point where I'm ready to move on. I expressed this to her before providing her with my workbook answers, and I think she's beginning to realize my boundaries are firm with her and I'm done with all of the drama. Proud of that.

Is it common for people with PDs to backtrack, especially when it comes to ownership of their actions?

It is common for pwPD's to feel intense 'shame' and sharing that 'shame' with another is a common way they cope with this shame.

Also, I know from my own experience that there is 'reactive abuse' and I have been guilty of it, which you indicated with your "verbal freakouts".  Even though my reactive abuse was very minor in comparison (comparing a firecracker to a 500 pound bomb), the attention the pwPD will focus on is that firecracker, and say that they feel that is the same as the 500 pound bomb of abuse they did on you (her cheating on you).  You know this is not the case, you know it is an exaggeration; however, they often truly feel that way.

A good article on reactive abuse can be found at https://www.verywellmind.com/reactive-abuse-signs-impact-and-tips-to-break-the-cycle-7567483.

The simple fact that you got an 'apology' is great progress, when you haven't had any in the past.  While it doesn't offset what they have done, especially if they are 'nit picking' on you, so they are not alone in feeling the 'shame'.  It took my wife 23-1/2 years to get her to apologize to me.  While she doesn't apologize a lot, she has done so several times since.  Take what you can get.  Thank her for apologizing and taking ownership, and this pleases you (even if it doesn't you want to do positive reinforcement here), validate what you can of the apology, this will make her feel good, and want to do more of this.

To give an example, I apologized for setting aside money for a divorce attorney retainer fee when she made numerous and convincing threats to divorce me.  I did this in response to her behavior - I would have never put aside my income for this purpose if she hadn't made the threat in the first place - yet she saw it as I was hiding some of 'our' money (that I earned) from her with no concept it was done in order to protect not only myself, but our children too.

If you want progress to continue, validate what is valid, and that is the pwPD's feelings, and not the facts that don't match those feelings.

The important take-away from her text is that she did not retract it, she is owning it, even though she sought to minimize the impact of her actions - try to look at it from her perspective, and then you will have made progress in your relationship with her.

I also noticed, that you are conflicted about staying the relationship as you said, "I have reached the point where I'm ready to move on."  That is probably the most powerful thing you could have done - you have signaled your firm boundary - this must be something that you must follow through on, if she does not stop the abusive behavior.  I did something similar with my wife, I called her on her repeated bluffs of separation and divorce - she no longer makes those bluffs, since she knows I too am ready to 'move on'.  She knows the 'gig is up'.  If she wants the benefits of being with you, she must honor the reasonable boundaries you have put in place.  These boundaries will be perceived as 'abusive' even though they are likely not.  Use a couple's therapist to make boundaries that work for both of you.  I expressed all the boundaries I am implementing, also apply to me - my boundary is very vague and all encompassing "All abuse must stop!" and are derived from this statement.

Regarding not having romantic feelings - this is a difficult one to address, but not impossible.  If you sleep together, start with snuggling, no kissing, no massaging, this is the quickest way back to romantic feelings is through the act of snuggling.  Alternatively, if she is not open to his, doing dates, and other fun things that you used to do when you were courting each other.  Romance, needs to be relearned.  From a marriage psychologist, he indicates spending 15-30 hours per week together doing each other's 'love languages' will rekindle the romance.  Marriagebuilders.com while not for everyone, is very good for a pwBPD if you want to rekindle romance and to build an affair proof marriage. 

My wife also likely has undiagnosed OCPD, and this is a good fit.  However, if OCPD is not present this plan may be rejected.  Depending on the study OCPD is comorbid up to 50% with BPD women.

BTW, I am interested in which workbook you are using.  If you wouldn't mind sharing, it would be greatly appreciated.

Also, be sure to take care with self-care, whatever that might look like for you.  You need to keep your energy up, in spite of what your wife does or doesn't do for you.

Take care.

SD

[uncleflo]

Regarding not having romantic feelings - this is a difficult one to address, but not impossible.  If you sleep together, start with snuggling, no kissing, no massaging, this is the quickest way back to romantic feelings is through the act of snuggling.  Alternatively, if she is not open to his, doing dates, and other fun things that you used to do when you were courting each other.  Romance, needs to be relearned.  From a marriage psychologist, he indicates spending 15-30 hours per week together doing each other's 'love languages' will rekindle the romance.  Marriagebuilders.com while not for everyone, is very good for a pwBPD if you want to rekindle romance and to build an affair proof marriage.

Thank you for everything you wrote, SD. All of it was wonderfully helpful and your sharing of your experience (20+ years like me) made me almost cry, as it feels like we are kindred spirits in many ways. The issue with romance now is this… she and I had a discussion a year ago in February where she expressed what she needed, and I opened my heart completely to all of it - more cuddling, more touching, more rubbing, more romance - I was completely committed to it and felt we had made great progress. She broke up with her "boyfriend" in March and everything felt more balanced and more positive. Of course, being that she had turned on a dime in the past, I never expected it to last. A few months later, she was back with her "boyfriend" and her sister, who is undiagnosed BPD (my wife's words), began sliding more and more into her life. Her sister and mother (who also has an undiagnosed BPD) always hated me because I "took their sister/daughter away from them). Once her sister slid back in, the dismantling of our marriage began and here we are now. If I offer to hug or cuddle or rub, I'm rejected. If I suggest we go see a movie or go out to eat or go for a walk, I'm rejected. It feels as if her "boyfriend" is filling her up (he is an NPD - her words again) and us having any connection would be her "cheating on him." So I take my cards off the table in that regard, as it feels pretty awful to go from being fully committed to loving her to the door being closed in my face if I even try. This is why I'm putting all my eggs at the moment taking care of myself, my kids, and my pets. Being a pushover, as I have been for many years, is a boundary I'm no longer willing to cross. If she comes back to me when she has drained the bank of another (an NPD is willing to play the long game though), we'll see whether the work I'm doing on myself helps keep me balanced.

BTW, I am interested in which workbook you are using.  If you wouldn't mind sharing, it would be greatly appreciated.

It's called Couples Therapy: Workbook for Healing. It helped me see where I've made mistakes, that's for sure. I only wish she had done it too instead of reading a book with her sister. Sigh.

Also, be sure to take care with self-care, whatever that might look like for you.  You need to keep your energy up, in spite of what your wife does or doesn't do for you.

Thank you, my friend. You as well.

[SaltyDawg]

UncleFlo,

   I must apologize for not getting back to you sooner.

[...]The issue with romance now is this… she and I had a discussion a year ago in February where she expressed what she needed, and I opened my heart completely to all of it - more cuddling, more touching, more rubbing, more romance - I was completely committed to it and felt we had made great progress. She broke up with her "boyfriend" in March and everything felt more balanced and more positive. Of course, being that she had turned on a dime in the past, I never expected it to last. A few months later, she was back with her "boyfriend" and her sister, who is undiagnosed BPD (my wife's words), began sliding more and more into her life. Her sister and mother (who also has an undiagnosed BPD) always hated me because I "took their sister/daughter away from them). Once her sister slid back in, the dismantling of our marriage began and here we are now. If I offer to hug or cuddle or rub, I'm rejected. If I suggest we go see a movie or go out to eat or go for a walk, I'm rejected. It feels as if her "boyfriend" is filling her up (he is an NPD - her words again) and us having any connection would be her "cheating on him." So I take my cards off the table in that regard, as it feels pretty awful to go from being fully committed to loving her to the door being closed in my face if I even try. This is why I'm putting all my eggs at the moment taking care of myself, my kids, and my pets. Being a pushover, as I have been for many years, is a boundary I'm no longer willing to cross. If she comes back to me when she has drained the bank of another (an NPD is willing to play the long game though), we'll see whether the work I'm doing on myself helps keep me balanced.

Well, my wife was that way too, albeit for different reasons.  She perceived I cheated on her with a licence counselor - pretty messed up.  Previously, she was reading books on LGBTQ2+ and I thought she was going to switch sides - I asked, it didn't phase her, nor hurt her feelings, so my educated guess is that she was seriously considering doing that.

I agree fully with you putting all of your energy in improving yourself, your children, your pets.

It sounds like she has actually dumped you and is dating a NPD, with her words of "cheating on him" when she was talking to you.  You also indicated that she communicated to you that she only wanted to be platonic friends before she apologized to you.

I am going to ask you a difficult question - Do you think this is okay? 

If she were to stop seeing the new NPD guy, would you want her back in your life?  If the answer is 'yes', the next question is 'why'?

Also, from what you have described, she was pretty clear that she does not want to have a romantic relationship with you.  Why are you still holding out for her affections when she has communicated otherwise?

There is always the possibility that when the thing does not work out with the NPD guy, she may come back to you, as that is what most borderlines do (not all).  How do you feel about being the side dude instead of the main one?

You indicate that you have a boundary, would you mind sharing what this specific boundary is?

It's called Couples Therapy: Workbook for Healing. It helped me see where I've made mistakes, that's for sure. I only wish she had done it too instead of reading a book with her sister. Sigh.

Is it this one?  https://www.amazon.com/Couples-Therapy-Workbook-Healing-Relationship/dp/1647391482


Take care with self-care.

SD

[uncleflo]

I am going to ask you a difficult question - Do you think this is okay? 

If she were to stop seeing the new NPD guy, would you want her back in your life?  If the answer is 'yes', the next question is 'why'?

Why are you still holding out for her affections when she has communicated otherwise?

How do you feel about being the side dude instead of the main one?

You indicate that you have a boundary, would you mind sharing what this specific boundary is?

My in-stone boundary is to no longer take part in being co-dependent and put more into taking care of my mental well-being, which I’ve neglected for far too long. For so many years, I’ve caved and essentially put myself back in the closet and her on the stage. I refuse to compromise my values any longer, and if that means she hits the road, so be it. If she gets help - and I mean, actually gets help instead of listening to others parrot her delusions - my forgiveness door is open. Either way, self, kid, and pet care comes first. I’m not holding out hope for her to get the true help she needs so I put my entire focus on the other three.

Why is a good question? I wouldn't say I'm holding out hope for her affections any longer. I've done a lot of work in disconnecting from that (I'd say I'm demisexual and if I don't connect emotionally, I don't feel much movement). I suppose I find it difficult to leave behind all that we built throughout the years. We’ve known each other since we were 14 (35 years), and have raised two amazing young men. They know she struggles with mental issues, and it has helped them grow into compassionate, patient people. There is so much history, you know? And though some of it was objectively terrible, there have also been great times too. Plus, there is a part of me that hates the idea of our boys having to split time between us. Having a home, a home I’ve worked hard to provide and keep, to come home to is one of the reasons I stay, I suppose.

[uncleflo]

Is it this one?  https://www.amazon.com/Couples-Therapy-Workbook-Healing-Relationship/dp/1647391482

Yep!

[SaltyDawg]

Thanks for confirming the workbook.

It sounds like you have good solid boundary and plan -- keep working on it -- stay focused.  I wish you the best.

Take care.