BPD wishes you'd reach out

[leftbrained]

Hello,

I suspect I recently dated someone who may have undiagnosed BPD. I'd never considered this until after this last break up. Impulsivity, blow ups, catastrophizing my words, accusing me of malicious intent, abandonment fears, talks of SI, and more lead me to believe this. Recently we broke up, as they yelled they were done and said they couldn't do this anymore. As I was leaving the house, they said I didn't have to leave; I found this confusing so I said goodbye. My friend says it sounds like they didn't actually want to breakup and I'm beyond confused. We had another split in the past. They suddenly ended things and I reached out after a few weeks. Much to my surprise they said they'd been waiting and hoping I'd reach out.

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[Pook075]

Hello,

I suspect I recently dated someone who may have undiagnosed BPD. I'd never considered this until after this last break up. Impulsivity, blow ups, catastrophizing my words, accusing me of malicious intent, abandonment fears, talks of SI, and more lead me to believe this. Recently we broke up, as they yelled they were done and said they couldn't do this anymore. As I was leaving the house, they said I didn't have to leave; I found this confusing so I said goodbye. My friend says it sounds like they didn't actually want to breakup and I'm beyond confused. We had another split in the past. They suddenly ended things and I reached out after a few weeks. Much to my surprise they said they'd been waiting and hoping I'd reach out.

Hello and welcome!  While no one here can give medical advice to help with a diagnosis, the patterns do sound like BPD or something similar could be at play here.  I'm very sorry you're going through this.

Confusion is normal because you've described one of the more tell-tale push/pull dynamics with mental illness.  A popular phrase that resonates in a few of the books out there is "I hate you, don't leave me".  Is that the vibe you took away from this experience?

Here's the thing about mental illness and BPD specifically, it's all emotion-driven in the moment and the words are often conflicting.  For example, when I broke up with my wife a little over a year ago, she continually said, "I didn't support her, even though I've always spoiled her."  How do those two things go together?  The answer is they don't at face value, but in a mentally ill mind they could both be truths at the same time.

For your relationship, it's entirely possible that she wanted to push you away but not break up.  Or the opposite could be true (she wanted to break up but not push you away).  The only way you'll have more clarity is by having a conversation with her and asking directly what she wants...don't be surprised if you don't get a straightforward answer though, because she may not know what she wants.

At this moment, however, with the breakup still fresh, the important part is focusing on your own physical/mental needs through some self-care.  Therapy could be a healthy option as well to talk these things out and gain additional clarity.  Give her some time to think about what she wants and you should do the same.  If this is BPD or another mental illness, then it's going to be there long-term.  Are you ready to deal with that and adjust to better communication techniques?  It's something to think about while you're apart.

Along the top of this page (and every page), you'll find some links on where to start your education on BPD and better communication methods.  There's quite a lot to learn and it may feel challenging at first, but that knowledge is invaluable in these types of relationships.  Please let us know if you have any additional questions as well since this is a true family here and we're all on the same team.

Good luck and keep your head up!

[tina7868]

Hello,

I suspect I recently dated someone who may have undiagnosed BPD. I'd never considered this until after this last break up. Impulsivity, blow ups, catastrophizing my words, accusing me of malicious intent, abandonment fears, talks of SI, and more lead me to believe this. Recently we broke up, as they yelled they were done and said they couldn't do this anymore. As I was leaving the house, they said I didn't have to leave; I found this confusing so I said goodbye. My friend says it sounds like they didn't actually want to breakup and I'm beyond confused. We had another split in the past. They suddenly ended things and I reached out after a few weeks. Much to my surprise they said they'd been waiting and hoping I'd reach out.

Seeing the behaviours through this lens in order to give you a better sense of understanding can still be beneficial to your healing process, even if this person is not diagnosed.

I can remember instances where my ex had a similar behaviour. One time, after he said he wanted nothing to do with me and wanted to start over with someone new, I went into a tailspin. I even thought about ending my life, and said as much. He called the police. It was obviously very heavy and toxic, I was shaken and went no contact. He reached out a few months later saying he was upset that I stopped talking to him, even if he had initiated the whole thing. This pattern of talking and not talking characterized the last three years of the relationship, and the not talking would be initiated by him. He once said that he waited for me to send him e-mails during this time, and that I should write about how much I loved him. The thing is, if I did that, he would turn around and call me desperate and pathetic.

All that to say, it is downright perplexing. My two cents is part of them may rewrite the story of what happened during the split, ignoring the part they played. Further, it could be too vulnerable to reach out and risk your rejection, so they left the ball in your court.

It`s important to remain centered within yourself, and have your own boundaries when it comes to navigating these situations.

[leftbrained]

Thank you Tina7868 and Pook075 for your responses.

Reframing their confusing or impulsive behavior through the lens of BPD made a pretty much all of it make sense.
I'm considering getting in touch with them. I wish I didn't feel confused or slightly scared. I guess the fear is not knowing what to expect. I care about them, but I'm not sure if we're right together.

[Pook075]

Thank you Tina7868 and Pook075 for your responses.

Reframing their confusing or impulsive behavior through the lens of BPD made a pretty much all of it make sense.
I'm considering getting in touch with them. I wish I didn't feel confused or slightly scared. I guess the fear is not knowing what to expect. I care about them, but I'm not sure if we're right together.

The thing is, it's so easy to think that this is all about her- what she thinks, what she wants, etc.  But this is really about you and what you want to say, to do, etc.  Take some time and think about that, what really matters to you and what will be the best path for you long-term. 

Right now you're spinning and the answers just aren't there.  That's 100% okay.  In time you will gain clarity and know how to proceed forward.

One thing I would advise is to make each attempted contact count.  With BPD, she can quickly go from "I need you" to "you're smothering me".  Fight the temptation to just reach out for the sake of reaching out.  Give her some space and ideally wait for her to make 1st contact.  If you can't, that's fine...you make the rules in the relationship too. 

[once removed]

My friend says it sounds like they didn't actually want to breakup and I'm beyond confused. We had another split in the past. They suddenly ended things and I reached out after a few weeks. Much to my surprise they said they'd been waiting and hoping I'd reach out.

its not uncommon that one party might want this more than the other.

its also not uncommon that the person doing the breaking up might have second thoughts.

reconciling a relationship is risky business; weve all done it, over 60% of relationships do.

what would you like to see happen here?

[tina7868]

I’ve read of these interactions being compared to a slot machine. That analogy checks out in many ways. As I mentioned, I used to write long, gloopy messages to my ex when he stopped talking to me. Sometimes they would go unanswered, but other times, they seemed to be the catalyst to him reaching out and things going “back to normal”. While what I wrote was sincere, it became more about finding the “right” words that would get him to reengage. I would feel pressure, pained, and dishonest. It was an unsustainable way of operating.

About a year and a half ago, I stopped doing this. I became more intentional with what I wanted when I reached out. What changed as a consequence, you might ask? Nothing on his end. Other factors certainly affected the dynamic; he started seeing someone seriously. However, on my end, I grew a lot more confident and even detached from his responses. Take our last interaction as a prime example. I got to a point where I was interested in hearing his perspective about the (to me) confusing period last year when he grew distant from me. So, when he answered harshly to my message and told me to “just move on” and that my moving on shouldn’t come at his expense, while it did really hurt to hear that, I still came away feeling like I learned something. Even if it was just that he still harboured unresolved feelings and couldn’t offer me perspective in a meaningful way. And that then propelled me to seek my own closure and understanding independent of his input.

All that to say, I think long term being thoughtful and intentional will benefit you, regardless of her response. This is a great space to explore that. It’s normal to feel fearful, but how they respond is out of your control. What is in your control is your reaction. Even if they respond the most horrible thing, or don’t even respond at all for that matter, you’ll still be fine in the sense that you’ll have some form of an answer to whatever it is your wondering about. And that may be the piece of the puzzle that helps you to move forward in your own healing.

[leftbrained]

I'd like for us to reconnect. I'm not sure if getting back together is best for me, but I am curious about how she's been doing. I miss her. If we talked again and things were similar to the first time around (she pushed me away, but said she was hoping I'd reach out), then I'd like to know what's up with her yo-yo behavior, but I wouldn't lead with that.

I really don't have a sense at to whether things would get better or worse, but I am someone who leans toward optimism. She has some awareness about her behaviors, but she has never mentioned BPD. She says she knows she's sensitive, feels emotions deeply, and knows she is different from most people. Part of me wants to reach out, but I also read that if the person has you split black that reaching out could result in false accusations.

Can anyone elaborate on that last sentence? Is that true or common?

[Pook075]

Can anyone elaborate on that last sentence? Is that true or common?

It is true and with BPD, it is common.  But are you sure you've been painted black?  I didn't take that from your original post.  it is possible that a week later that's where she's arrived though.

One thing to remember is that people w/ BPD run 100% on emotions, they feel everything in the moment and it's often very intense.  A happy day is the best day ever!  A sad day is soul crushing.  It's always extremes when they're unbalanced and it can sometimes flip-flop several times in a very short time period.

For example, my BPD daughter broke up with her 3-year partner several months ago.  Nobody was really at fault, the relationship just ran its course and her partner didn't have those types of feelings.  But my daughter's best friend....best friend to the partner as well....she was seen as "taking sides" and my kid painted her black.  She was completely at fault for everything and if it wasn't for her, none of this would have happened, etc.  It was UGLY and my daughter threatened physical violence if she ever saw the girl again.

Well, about two weeks ago, that girl reached out to me.  We sort of had a father/daughter relationship and I do care about her, but I stayed away due to the fallout.  But when she reached out we chatted for 5 minutes and quickly caught up, shared a little love, and then said goodbye.  It was nice and I was glad she was doing okay.  Then I made the mistake of telling my daughter about it...and oh boy.  She was mad as a hornet and wanted to cuss the girl out, beat her up, etc.

I did my best to calm my kid down, but that evening she did call the girl and unload.  I was already in bed so I knew nothing about it until the next morning, when my kid called me.  She said, "Hey, I had someone spend the night and you might be upset, but I wanted to talk to them and they'd like to see you."  I was annoyed with the cryptic call early in the morning, but then the girl walks in and hugs me.

Later that day, I talked to my kid and asked what happened?!?  You hate her, don't you?  And she said yes, but she's glad they talked and were able to clear some things up.  I can't say I fully understand any of that, but I wanted to share it so you can see that BPD and even painting someone black is complicated.  I think sometimes they hate because they're too scared to love and risk rejection....that's my best guess anyway.

Hopefully that helps.

[leftbrained]

Wow. Your response was incredibly insightful. Thank you. Now I feel more certain in the fact that things aren't quite certain, and can be complicated and unpredictable.

In terms of being painted black:
We had a disagreement, she yelled "I'm done" and said "she couldn't do this anymore." I said "I'll go", and she cried and said I didn't have to go. The day before I'd taken her to the ER for stomach pain and dizziness, and I'd changed my flight to stay with her an extra day. When she broke up with me, I felt hurt because I wanted to show up for her. Hence the yo-yo feeling. So I said "I'm leaving", because I'd reached my limit. When we parted ways, we hugged and kissed goodbye, and she said maybe we could be friends. I told her since she was breaking up with me that I needed time, and wasn't sure how much. She told me she only had good things to say about me, and that I was not abusive. I sent her a message about a week later telling her that she is enough, and not alone, and loved by many. I wasn't expecting a response and she did not respond.

The only thing that would lead me to believe she painted me black is because she unfriended me (I know, how millennial/Gen Z is that?), and I think she eventually deleted the app all together. That was in the span of about 3 weeks. She has told me that she sometimes impulsively deletes or throws things away (apps, photos, sentimental items, etc).

I'm also theoretically basing all of this on if she is even has BPD. It's just that her behaviors have not made sense to me until viewing them under this lens. My therapist casually mentioned cluster B and moving goalposts when we talked about something pertaining to her. I started reading more about BPD and some things really clicked for me. Obviously my therapist cannot (and did not) diagnose her. She just happened to mention it.

I'd like to reach out, but I feel a little afraid to do so because I'm not sure what to expect. So this doesn't sound like she has painted me black?

[Pook075]

I'd like to reach out, but I feel a little afraid to do so because I'm not sure what to expect. So this doesn't sound like she has painted me black?

To me, it sounds like she felt like the relationship was crumbling and she pushed you away in self-defense.  You also mentioned in a prior post that this happened in the past and she was waiting for you to reach out, which is common since it's a confusing push/pull dynamic. 

Going back to my BPD daughter, she HATED her best friend for the role she played in her relationship breakup.  It doesn't make a lot of sense until you see it from a different viewpoint- my daughter is a deeply loving woman and when she feels like she's being crossed, it's scorched Earth...until things turn around....then it's rainbows and unicorns.  But the anger is still there as well until trust is rebuilt.

I feel like you're in a similar position.  Both my kid and your ex took the "nuclear option" because blowing up a relationship is much easier than the alternative- actually sitting down and talking through problems, finding compromises that work for everyone, and having mutual trust. 

I'm in the same position in my marriage as well.  We could work things out with a long conversation and that option has been there for the past 16 months.  My wife has to meet me halfway though since I can't do all the heavy lifting; that's not how relationships work.  It takes two.

If you want to reach out, then reach out...just make sure to make the opportunity count.  Do apologize for hurting her and not being able to talk through this.  Do let her know that you love her and miss her.  Do ask how she's doing.  Do ask about things you have in common or things that matter to her deeply.

On the other hand, don't blame her for anything...this isn't about right and wrong, or who did what.  Don't ask for an apology because you're not going to get it, that's just too deep right now.  Don't ask her to come back, because that's moving way too fast.  Don't mention anything she did wrong, since that's just assigning blame and makes her feel more guilty (which lessens the chances of talking at all).

In your position, the goal right now is finding common ground...can you find friendship?  Or maybe it's even more basic, can you have a basic conversation without blaming her for anything?  Because if you make contact, she will blame you for a lot of stuff and you have to resist the temptation to defend.  As I said in another thread earlier today, it's not about who's right or wrong in the past...I can say with certainty that you've both been wrong since all of us have been in that position.  The past is dead and it can't be changed, so any conversation has to focus solely on today and the future. 

[leftbrained]

Thanks for your insight and sharing your experience. Being a friend to one another feels like top priority (pretty much always), and I think we'll need that foundation if things were to ever progress to something further. For now, just communicating again would feel good.

You mentioned the 'nuclear option', have you also noticed a trend with things being blown up, and the person with BPD kind of retreating or wishing the other person would reach out first? Do you know who initiated the conversation between your daughter and her friend?

[Pook075]

Thanks for your insight and sharing your experience. Being a friend to one another feels like top priority (pretty much always), and I think we'll need that foundation if things were to ever progress to something further. For now, just communicating again would feel good.

You mentioned the 'nuclear option', have you also noticed a trend with things being blown up, and the person with BPD kind of retreating or wishing the other person would reach out first? Do you know who initiated the conversation between your daughter and her friend?

In my BPD daughter's case, she left her husband for another relationship and immediately went all-in with that person.  It was chaos because her and the husband lived with us at the time, and my kid had the audacity to bring the new lover here within a week's time of the final breakup (with her hubby still here).  My kid didn't look back on the marriage until the new relationship failed maybe 3-5 months later.

It probably took my daughter 3 or 4 years to stop painting her husband black, and by then it was far too late.  I feel really bad for the guy but they got married super young and they were both too immature to be in that type of relationship.

In my case with my wife, she shut down over maybe a month period and just stopped talking to me completely.  One day she announced that she was leaving, and we talked for a few days as she stayed at her parents house.  Then it all changed though and I was painted black, in the same way as my daughter's husband, and the wrath that came from my wife was something I didn't recognize.  It was like she had hated me for years.

Both my kid's husband and I essentially did the same thing, we tried to talk things out logically and assign blame where it fit.  Huge mistakes since we weren't left over "logical reasons."  Emotion is the opposite of logic in this instance, because the discards were based on feelings in the moment and those feelings spiraled downward. 

My amateur opinion is that painting black happens because it's a self-defense mechanism to justify doing things that someone normally wouldn't do...but it becomes okay because you're doing it to a bad person who doesn't deserve any compassion.  That's my best guess anyway, I could be completely wrong.

Now, for your questions since we have some context from my journey.  My daughter wants to talk to her husband all these years later to try to rekindle friendship, but I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not since she hurt him so deeply.  He did consistently try to reach out for the first year or so, and my kid would alternate between being happy for the call to being angry over it.  He was always very direct though pushing to get back together, and that backfired on him since my kid would push him away.

For my wife and I, there's a similar pattern where she'd want nothing to do with me, then call and ask me about senseless stuff she didn't have to call about.  Her intentions were never clear either- she'd say that she had to go, but then she'd keep the conversation going for another 10-30 minutes.  I'm sharing this to again show that there wasn't a constant, because I believe that her feelings changed throughout the day.  Sometimes I'd text her and she'd call me immediately...other times she'd ignore my texts for weeks at a time. 

It was very inconsistent so I'll answer inconsistently, your ex would probably love to hear from you, and she's probably also dreading hearing from you because of how easily the conversation could become complicated.

For my daughter and her friend the other week, the friend messaged me on Facebook just to say hi, and I ended up calling her.  And I remember telling myself all day long, I can't tell my kid about this because she'll go ballistic.  But then I told her anyway because I didn't see the point in hiding it and "walking on eggshells" since I did nothing wrong.

My daughter called the friend and screamed at her, and then she drove 45 minutes north to pick her up to talk things out in person.  While my kid was clearly furious, I also think a part of her missed that friendship dearly and wanted any excuse to reach out.  Another excuse was then made that one of their mutual friends had a problem and my daughter had to drive them over there to talk it out...which was an hour southeast (maybe 20 minutes from my home).  So they were over there until the wee hours of the morning and ended up spending the night here...only for my kid to drive her 45 minutes home in the morning (before driving an hour in the opposite direction for work). 

My daughter was late for work that morning and knew she would be, but refused to let me drive the friend home.  So these were all conscious choices to spend time with her and talk.  And my daughter still says she hates the friend, wants nothing to do with her, but that's really only a small part of the truth.  She's hurt and wants to lash out, but she also misses her friend as well and wants to make things right. 

I think the problem is that she has no idea how to do that, how to forgive her and let go of the past.  In a nutshell, that's the whole challenge with BPD in general.

[leftbrained]

Thanks for sharing. It's helpful to hear and share all of this, and I find it cathartic. 

Some of my uncertainty with reaching out has to do with not knowing how I'll be perceived. I really wish I could avoid any type of angry response or lashing out. I also felt like she was antagonistic towards the end. I'd like to see these things resolved, but it feels like there isn't much room for accountability on her part. I'm also starting to wonder if she just isn't aware of how she comes off much of the time.

I wouldn't get into all that in reaching out, but I feel like for any friendship (and certainly anything more) to exist, these things would need to get worked out.

The inability to recognize the impact of behavior and words is a trait, right? How has accountability gone from your perspective? Have you seen improvement in the ability to recognize how their words and behavior lands for others?

[leftbrained]

I'd like to add that what you're saying about logic vs. emotion really tracks for me. I tried to point this out at one time and it started an argument. Basically, I said that she interprets and communicates through an emotional filter when we have conflict, and that's why I felt like my words were being magnified and turned into a different meaning. She got really upset and said that I said "she is illogical and not analytical at all." Similar magnification/twisting was happening in the last month and a half.

When I'd try to restate what I actually said and meant, this would just dig a deeper hole. She would say things like, "oh, that's right, I'm always wrong" or "yup, I got it wrong again". I tried to point out that I was only trying to represent what I said as accurately as possible, and to get mad at something I didn't even say or mean seemed counterproductive. I'm curious if this is something people commonly experience and whether or not it's just isolated to pwBPD.

[Pook075]

Thanks for sharing. It's helpful to hear and share all of this, and I find it cathartic. 

Some of my uncertainty with reaching out has to do with not knowing how I'll be perceived. I really wish I could avoid any type of angry response or lashing out. I also felt like she was antagonistic towards the end. I'd like to see these things resolved, but it feels like there isn't much room for accountability on her part. I'm also starting to wonder if she just isn't aware of how she comes off much of the time.

I wouldn't get into all that in reaching out, but I feel like for any friendship (and certainly anything more) to exist, these things would need to get worked out.

The inability to recognize the impact of behavior and words is a trait, right? How has accountability gone from your perspective? Have you seen improvement in the ability to recognize how their words and behavior lands for others?

People with BPD see the world differently because everything is emotion-based.  For example, you could say, "I hope you have a great day!" but if you say it with your back turned to them or your focus on something else, it can be perceived as sarcasm and a subtle dig.  And once that perception is there, other innocent, well-meaning comments over time can become a horrible insult that proves you don't care anything about them.

Here's the thing though- you're saying that her behavior comes out of nowhere and is unjustified.  In her mind, you've put her down too many times to count because her own emotions and insecurity are telling her a completely different story than you're seeing.  You're viewed as the bad guy because to her, your actions validate that when you tell her that's she's not seeing things clearly.

Think about it this way.  You and I are hanging out.  I say, "My arm feels like it's on fire."  You look ay my arm- there's no rash, no discoloration, no bug bites, and definitely no fire.  Would you say, "You're a liar...that's not what you feel!"  And if you did, how would you expect me to react?  And how would you react to my intense reaction?

That's sort of the BPD mindset- they see/feel one thing, you see something else entirely.  They seek validation and we blow it, because we don't understand that they're hurting from something we can't see...potentially something we did.  That's why you'll see advice throughout this forum to focus on their emotions....not the actual words.  Their emotions are closer to the truth- the fear, anger, sadness, confusion, etc.  That's the stuff you can actually focus on and fix.

So when you try to discuss something that happened last Tuesday, she's thinking about the 15 things that led up to that...which you know nothing about because you don't understand BPD and you missed all the clues in body language, tone, etc.  That diminishes her trust and the fear of abandonment kicks in, which makes everything 10x scarier and more urgent.

While I agree that she needs to be more accountable, so do you.  And the real problem here is that you speak two completely different languages- you can't know what you did wrong because she won't just say it in a calm, normal conversation where it can be a quick fix.  So you have to see it and react to her reactions.

What I'm suggesting you do feels impossible, I realize that.  It's why very few of these relationships succeed, it takes a lot of work on both sides just to start speaking the right language to start building trust once again.  It's also unfair to you, since you'll have to put in most of the work up-front. 

There are success stories here though and I'm one of them with my daughter....and to a certain degree with my wife as well.  While we'll still divorce in February, we can have normal conversations now and co-parent.  The key was me forgiving both of them and letting all that past drama go, not holding on to grudges or waiting for apologies any longer.  The term for that is "radical acceptance" if you want to search for it on the forums or Google.

I hope that helps and please know that I'm not "blaming you" for anything.  I'm just trying to paint a picture from the BPD's point of view through what I've learned in my family experiences.  Remember that this is not your fault...but you'll have to decide whether or not to be the solution if you decide to reconcile.

[leftbrained]

Thanks for clarifying. I don't feel like you were blaming me, and I know I've done things to contribute to her feeling hurt. I'm definitely not perfect.

The fact that there's a lot being perceived that I'm not seeing is pretty thought-provoking. I think such is the case with many humans, but this is really curious.

So if she blow up at me, she feels fully justified in doing so because there's something I'm not noticing.

[Pook075]

Thanks for clarifying. I don't feel like you were blaming me, and I know I've done things to contribute to her feeling hurt. I'm definitely not perfect.

The fact that there's a lot being perceived that I'm not seeing is pretty thought-provoking. I think such is the case with many humans, but this is really curious.

So if she blow up at me, she feels fully justified in doing so because there's something I'm not noticing.

Essentially yes.  They see themselves as the good ones who are being unfairly treated and taken advantage of.  It took me quite a while but I can see that side of it now, how their perceptions are based on something real (dysregulated emotions/feelings...but very real to them nonetheless). 

One last quick comment- if she blows up at you, you're hearing about what's on her mind right now and that may feel like it's coming from nowhere or it's way out of proportion.  It's the other stuff that happened before that, the stuff that's been building and she can't shake loose of...that's her real problem and the source of the unstable emotions.

The thing is, we may never fully figure out what that stuff is because it's coming from a dysregulated state.  That's why we focus on the emotions-

- You're sad, let me give you support and relate to feeling that way
- You're angry, let me make you feel safe and supported while I soothe you
- You're confused or hurt, let me listen while you talk out the situation

Notice I didn't say in any of those "....so I can fix the problem".  The problem (what they're talking about) comes from unstable emotions and it's not the actual problem...the unstable emotions and fear of betrayal/rejection/abandonment are the real issue.  Soothe the emotions, let them calm down and stabilize, and suddenly the problem that was a 10/10 is now a 2/10.  We can talk out a 2 rationally and logically, while also building trust and affirming support.

[leftbrained]

Thanks Pook075!

I'll try this new approach. Wishing you the best!

[Pook075]

Thanks Pook075!

I'll try this new approach. Wishing you the best!

Good luck friend, we're here if you need us!