New here - mix of feelings

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello,

I’m new here and not sure what I’m looking for. Definitely to feel less alone. To get help to see clearly and learn skills. To not feel as alone. Starting to see my husband as BPD/NPD with lots of Anxiety. We’ve had short bouts of counselling - individually and together. But he is currently refusing couples therapy and will not share with me details of his own therapy or healthcare. He is dysregulated most days over the Christmas holidays - ranging from touchy about tiny things to full-on stories about how I am only interested in myself/my work/my friends, incapable of being a good partner or parent.

I’ve been together with my husband for 28 years. Always up and down. I would hear other peoples’ relationship stories and they always sounded so calm.While my husband would feel things so intensely, I recognized so much of myself seeing his big feelings. When he expressed big feelings it enabled me to express them too. We did this dance back and further - and while there was anger and sadness there was also so much beauty and creativity and sometimes joy.

When we had kids, things changed significantly. In the hospital, I was so glad to have my husband there for support. But he felt judged by the hospital staff and traumatized I think by the whole event. After, when I experienced difficulties with breastfeeding, I felt so judged and he didn’t give me the emotional support I needed. When I found out my son was tongue tied and that may be impacting his ability to breastfeed and that a simple procedure could fix the situation, it took so much for my husband to believe me and not think I wasn’t trying to hurt our son.

And then my son was difficult. Intense himself, demanding, precocious, intelligent, and needing me a great deal all the time. It was an identity shift for both of us as we grappled with parenting advice, family, books, nurses - all trying to figure it out together. He was a great dad directly with his son but with me - the conflicts continued but seemed to be all the more painful and intense. But also still so much love.

Then my daughter was born - at this point there was paranoia where for a short period he believes she had a different father. He tries hard to understand both kids but has struggled not to take their own difficulties as reflections of his or my failures. When our son dealt with his own depression this last year and graduated late, he either blamed himself or blamed me for not being on top of him with deadlines. Our daughter is now exploring her own gender identity. My husband will rail and say that my neglect and bad role modelling have caused this.

A few years ago, I realized working with a therapist that many of the usual communication strategies just weren’t working with my husband. Someone mentioned BPD to me and I started learning about it. I left two years ago in a very short separation but I love him and he said and did all the things I needed to hear. For a while. Now it’s back to much of the same.

I find it particularly hard to hold the part of me that deserves respect with the part that has empathy for his pain. I can’t integrate these two feelings - an intense need for a supportive, respectful relationship with a deep understanding of his pain and suffering having been born the way he is.

I have started to practice some of the skills - setting boundaries, working on which emotions are mine and which are his, taking time outs (headphones, book, walking away). I do see ways in which my own background and desire to help and understand has enabled some of this. I find being clear difficult. I find myself enveloped by the fog of trying to understand his bp mindset sometimes only to shake my head at all the energy I’ve put into to try to understand something so destructive to myself. Or the alternative of arguing how the viewpoint isn’t true.

I am so tired of fighting and trying. I feel like a fool some days. And my friends who have been with me through this all - they just can never fully get it nor do I want to malign my husband to them.

There was one moment of insight that gave me hope the other day though. My h came downstairs and I could instantly tell he was calm again. I had said good morning and then mentioned about a Christmas present I was getting for his mum. A cloud gathered over his face and he mad some kind of critical remark. I said oh what happened there - you suddenly looked sad and angry. He brushed it off and left abruptly. Later he called and said he wanted to share an observation that he noticed when he felt sad and anxious he noticed that then he attacked me for no reason.

This feels like a ray of hope right now that I hold a cherish in the midst of the fog.

[Hope-in-fog]

Hello,

I’m new here and not sure what I’m looking for. Definitely to feel less alone. To get help to see clearly and learn skills. To not feel as alone. Starting to see my husband as BPD/NPD with lots of Anxiety. We’ve had short bouts of counselling - individually and together. But he is currently refusing couples therapy and will not share with me details of his own therapy or healthcare. He is dysregulated most days over the Christmas holidays - ranging from touchy about tiny things to full-on stories about how I am only interested in myself/my work/my friends, incapable of being a good partner or parent.

I’ve been together with my husband for 28 years. Always up and down. I would hear other peoples’ relationship stories and they always sounded so calm.While my husband would feel things so intensely, I recognized so much of myself seeing his big feelings. When he expressed big feelings it enabled me to express them too. We did this dance back and further - and while there was anger and sadness there was also so much beauty and creativity and sometimes joy.

When we had kids, things changed significantly. In the hospital, I was so glad to have my husband there for support. But he felt judged by the hospital staff and traumatized I think by the whole event. After, when I experienced difficulties with breastfeeding, I felt so judged and he didn’t give me the emotional support I needed. When I found out my son was tongue tied and that may be impacting his ability to breastfeed and that a simple procedure could fix the situation, it took so much for my husband to believe me and not think I wasn’t trying to hurt our son.

And then my son was difficult. Intense himself, demanding, precocious, intelligent, and needing me a great deal all the time. It was an identity shift for both of us as we grappled with parenting advice, family, books, nurses - all trying to figure it out together. He was a great dad directly with his son but with me - the conflicts continued but seemed to be all the more painful and intense. But also still so much love.

Then my daughter was born - at this point there was paranoia where for a short period he believes she had a different father. He tries hard to understand both kids but has struggled not to take their own difficulties as reflections of his or my failures. When our son dealt with his own depression this last year and graduated late, he either blamed himself or blamed me for not being on top of him with deadlines. Our daughter is now exploring her own gender identity. My husband will rail and say that my neglect and bad role modelling have caused this.

A few years ago, I realized working with a therapist that many of the usual communication strategies just weren’t working with my husband. Someone mentioned BPD to me and I started learning about it. I left two years ago in a very short separation but I love him and he said and did all the things I needed to hear. For a while. Now it’s back to much of the same.

I find it particularly hard to hold the part of me that deserves respect with the part that has empathy for his pain. I can’t integrate these two feelings - an intense need for a supportive, respectful relationship with a deep understanding of his pain and suffering having been born the way he is.

I have started to practice some of the skills - setting boundaries, working on which emotions are mine and which are his, taking time outs (headphones, book, walking away). I do see ways in which my own background and desire to help and understand has enabled some of this. I find being clear difficult. I find myself enveloped by the fog of trying to understand his bp mindset sometimes only to shake my head at all the energy I’ve put into to try to understand something so destructive to myself. Or the alternative of arguing how the viewpoint isn’t true.

I am so tired of fighting and trying. I feel like a fool some days. And my friends who have been with me through this all - they just can never fully get it nor do I want to malign my husband to them.

There was one moment of insight that gave me hope the other day though. My h came downstairs and I could instantly tell he was calm again. I had said good morning and then mentioned about a Christmas present I was getting for his mum. A cloud gathered over his face and he mad some kind of critical remark. I said oh what happened there - you suddenly looked sad and angry. He brushed it off and left abruptly. Later he called and said he wanted to share an observation that he noticed when he felt sad and anxious he noticed that then he attacked me for no reason.

This feels like a ray of hope right now that I hold a cherish in the midst of the fog.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Hope-in-fog]

Had a bit of a breakthrough at NYE - H was in such a state of false narratives about me but I felt so full up with my own joy - love NyE, getting dressed up, spent time crafting and chatting with friends that day…I could see it all for what it was. So even though it seemed like at any moment our plans for our date would fall through (like if I thought about how I really don’t want to start the new year on a date with someone who calls me stupid or evil and bat PLEASE READ and the reason my son is a failure or my daughter is confused about her gender or any other of the horrible things he has said in recent past or even the last 24h before that date)…I just listened in the restaurant and said well that is your perspective and it sounds like it’s really making you angry and sad. I see things differently. This happened several times and had to take breaks when I felt I was getting overwhelmed. But inserting that I didn’t understand where the conclusions came from though I saw how if he had assumed I was try to shame or be selfish etc. it would hurt too. The evening did shift - I didn’t get trapped into arguing, or rationalizing, or moralizing…And then physical affection after a long time without did help too. Listening to music, just enjoying.Eventually being happy, even though I knew it might be fleeting. But the next day…waiting for the other shoe to drop. Which it did, over nothing, and then another conversation this time more heated with me frustrated that the smallest thing would have me be the enemy again after reconnecting. I was calmly assertive though about my needs and feelings. This shifted things somewhat.

Then back to work and having a little less energy myself. But it felt even more clear then, as soon as I saw the pattern starting again with false narrative, left the situation to do something I enjoy that fills me up.

As someone of faith, I also pray. This helps a great deal. Gives me the light of who I want to be within this situation.

Now, I think there may be some genuine sadness on his side. He may have realized a bit of how this has impacted me but is feeling shame for that. But that is his to own.

It helped also to think of which feelings are his and which are mine. When I know I am hopeful, even the false narrative or the fact that my loved one chosen to craft it, doesn’t get to me. There’s no point getting bogged down in it.

That doesn’t mean the sorrow and grief I feel in this relationship has left. But it does make me feel more clear eyed.

[kells76]

Hi Hope-in-fog, glad you found us, and welcome.

28 years is a long time to cope with BPD, and it sounds like it was always kind of volatile, where the good times were so good and the bad times were so bad.

This stood out to me in your first post:

I find it particularly hard to hold the part of me that deserves respect with the part that has empathy for his pain. I can’t integrate these two feelings - an intense need for a supportive, respectful relationship with a deep understanding of his pain and suffering having been born the way he is.

I have started to practice some of the skills - setting boundaries, working on which emotions are mine and which are his, taking time outs (headphones, book, walking away). I do see ways in which my own background and desire to help and understand has enabled some of this. I find being clear difficult. I find myself enveloped by the fog of trying to understand his bp mindset sometimes only to shake my head at all the energy I’ve put into to try to understand something so destructive to myself. Or the alternative of arguing how the viewpoint isn’t true.

Sometimes it can help to think of being in a relationship with a pwBPD as an "emotional special needs" relationship.

If our partner had to use a wheelchair, and couldn't go on long hikes or go rock climbing, but those things were really important to us, we'd be disappointed -- we would have wanted to have a relationship where we could hike together -- and would also need to come to a place of radically accepting the inherent limitations in our relationship. We'd stop expecting our partner to be able to stand up and walk, as it were. It wouldn't be a judgment about how walking is better, or not walking is better, though there could be a conversation about that. It would be saying: whether it's better to be able to walk or not, the reality is that my partner can't, and that's where we're at.

Technically, there could come a time with advances in medicine where your partner could get a special treatment enabling walking, but there's no guarantee, and it'd be down the road.

BPD is like that -- there are a lot of emotional limitations with the disorder. Technically, with extensive and involved treatment, there is hope -- but it can be challenging for some pwBPD to engage with treatment. That means we may need to "radically accept" that they are who they are at this moment in time, and then, like you've been doing, we can decide to build our toolbelt and see if we can change the dynamic from our end.

That doesn't mean accepting abuse, or taking responsibility for things we aren't responsible for -- that's not what RA is about. It's more about what you're doing:

It helped also to think of which feelings are his and which are mine. When I know I am hopeful, even the false narrative or the fact that my loved one chosen to craft it, doesn’t get to me. There’s no point getting bogged down in it.

That doesn’t mean the sorrow and grief I feel in this relationship has left. But it does make me feel more clear eyed.

You can "radically accept" that who he is right now, is a person who sometimes crafts false narratives. That doesn't make it OK -- it just means, that's who he is, and you are looking at it clearly (not pretending that "the real him" is "the good side", for example).

...

All that to say -- you're definitely not alone in working on staying with a spouse wBPD, and in working on building your own strong sense of self to accept what you're responsible for and decline to pick up what you're not responsible for.

It also makes sense that you're grieving having a limited relationship.

What stage of grieving do you think you might be in?

...

Fill us in on how things are going, whenever works best for you.

-kells76

[Hope-in-fog]

Thanks Kells76. Means a lot to me to have you validate the choice to stay, work on my piece, and work on acceptance. I’ve found in the past that some friends and therapists don’t always understand this.

I did leave two years ago which at the time i felt very necessary (it had really spiralled to the point i saw no other way). And overall, i would say it is better now with the work i have done and some of the understanding we’ve come to together.

Yes thinking about it as someone who has emotional special needs is helpful. It can be so confusing though at one point to see an individual who is intuitive and emotionally intelligent and the next not see what looks to be a choice to externalize their pain rather than just feel it. One second he might actually name the problem, “I’m overwhelmed at work” or “I wish i was doing more of X” or “It makes me sad when…” and the next he’s talking about something I did wrong six months ago or something I will do wrong tomorrow morning. Or it turns into this way that the world is messed up or other people who have advantages over him.

I realize there is a lot i need to focus on preserving. My own balance within that maelstrom but also when my being there seems to keep the narrative going and when i start to just not like him at all. Plus even when i’ve remained calm and centred and kind….later the negative stories will swirl in my head. I mean how could they not. And the amount of time i spend thinking about if he’s ok. Which i guess is normal.

Having things where i need to concentrate on something else do really help - work, cooking, yoga, knitting, sewing, choir, swimming, friends, reading…. Sometimes he reacts when i have all these other things - but these are what keep me in the relationship and we’ve talked about that.

The hardest thing - thinking about the future. Whether its 3m, 6m, or longer. He can’t make plans and I worry about what our life together will be like as we age. Am i going to have to take responsibility for our choices? How will we navigate big challenges and life changes like illness and death of loved ones?

These are hard to think about.